Shows are no longer 3 hours/ less encores/less songs? Discuss

HughFreakingDillon · June 2018

PJ_Soul said:

NWOntario said:

"Better Man" has turned into an absolute motherfucker-of-a-show-stopper. It should be played every single night.
I used to whine about The Tragically Hip not rotating songs often enough. I would give my remaining kidney to hear the most rote Tragically Hip setlist; one day I'll be saying the same thing about Pearl Jam and wishing I hadn't spent so much time complaining about setlists that are way more varied than pretty much any other band's.

I've got a problem with Better Man being some kind of joyful anthem that even Eddie for some reason pretends is about acutal good men, when in fact the lyrics are very explicitly about domestic abuse, and no matter how you spin, you can't make those lyrics mean anything other than that. That's why I don't like it anymore. Not so much because I'm bugged that a song about an important social issue has been twisted into some happy go lucky sing-a-long, although I don't like that, but because it just doesn't really make any damn sense now.

I think sometimes a song can evolve in meaning, can take on a life of its own, especially when you see how the crowd reacts to it. I mean, Alive is a fucking dark song, but it's turned into a triumphant anthem of sorts.

Spiritual_Chaos · June 2018

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

NWOntario said:

"Better Man" has turned into an absolute motherfucker-of-a-show-stopper. It should be played every single night.
I used to whine about The Tragically Hip not rotating songs often enough. I would give my remaining kidney to hear the most rote Tragically Hip setlist; one day I'll be saying the same thing about Pearl Jam and wishing I hadn't spent so much time complaining about setlists that are way more varied than pretty much any other band's.

I've got a problem with Better Man being some kind of joyful anthem that even Eddie for some reason pretends is about acutal good men, when in fact the lyrics are very explicitly about domestic abuse, and no matter how you spin, you can't make those lyrics mean anything other than that. That's why I don't like it anymore. Not so much because I'm bugged that a song about an important social issue has been twisted into some happy go lucky sing-a-long, although I don't like that, but because it just doesn't really make any damn sense now.

I think sometimes a song can evolve in meaning, can take on a life of its own, especially when you see how the crowd reacts to it. I mean, Alive is a fucking dark song, but it's turned into a triumphant anthem of sorts.

But that must at the core of it be... because people are stupid or don't read lyrics... and then it snowballs from there.

So did Alive turn into an "anthem" or was it always looked upon as one, by people watching MTV and listening to hits on the radio.

NWOntario · June 2018

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

NWOntario said:

"Better Man" has turned into an absolute motherfucker-of-a-show-stopper. It should be played every single night.
I used to whine about The Tragically Hip not rotating songs often enough. I would give my remaining kidney to hear the most rote Tragically Hip setlist; one day I'll be saying the same thing about Pearl Jam and wishing I hadn't spent so much time complaining about setlists that are way more varied than pretty much any other band's.

I've got a problem with Better Man being some kind of joyful anthem that even Eddie for some reason pretends is about acutal good men, when in fact the lyrics are very explicitly about domestic abuse, and no matter how you spin, you can't make those lyrics mean anything other than that. That's why I don't like it anymore. Not so much because I'm bugged that a song about an important social issue has been twisted into some happy go lucky sing-a-long, although I don't like that, but because it just doesn't really make any damn sense now.

I think sometimes a song can evolve in meaning, can take on a life of its own, especially when you see how the crowd reacts to it. I mean, Alive is a fucking dark song, but it's turned into a triumphant anthem of sorts.

Not even of sorts: it's a triumphant anthem full stop. "Alive" has turned into an "eff you" towards the mother, and I think it works...I mean, given how that chorus sounds it's kind of how the song had to evolve, y'know?

mrk2 · June 2018

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjsteelerfan said:

mrk2 said:

Vedd Hedd said:

It's always someone's first ever Pearl Jam show. Can you imagine a show in which you didnt get to hear at least ONE of the following:

Jeremy
Betterman
Black
Small Town
Yellow Ledbetter
Even Flow

Been there, done that :
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/pearl-jam/2007/wembley-arena-london-england-43d6a7df.html

Show would make for an excellent vault release

The power of having the entire floor be tenclub.

Copenhagen 2007 was better though. If there is such a thing as "better".

Agree. But both were great shows. The written setlist for Copenhagen was even better, they planned to end the show with Release and Indifference:

http://pearljamsetlists.tumblr.com/post/52803913799/2007-06-26-copenhagen-denmark-forum

Also dropped I'm Open / Come Back. I guess it was so emotional already that they couldn't get through it all.

HughFreakingDillon · June 2018

Spiritual_Chaos said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

NWOntario said:

"Better Man" has turned into an absolute motherfucker-of-a-show-stopper. It should be played every single night.
I used to whine about The Tragically Hip not rotating songs often enough. I would give my remaining kidney to hear the most rote Tragically Hip setlist; one day I'll be saying the same thing about Pearl Jam and wishing I hadn't spent so much time complaining about setlists that are way more varied than pretty much any other band's.

I've got a problem with Better Man being some kind of joyful anthem that even Eddie for some reason pretends is about acutal good men, when in fact the lyrics are very explicitly about domestic abuse, and no matter how you spin, you can't make those lyrics mean anything other than that. That's why I don't like it anymore. Not so much because I'm bugged that a song about an important social issue has been twisted into some happy go lucky sing-a-long, although I don't like that, but because it just doesn't really make any damn sense now.

I think sometimes a song can evolve in meaning, can take on a life of its own, especially when you see how the crowd reacts to it. I mean, Alive is a fucking dark song, but it's turned into a triumphant anthem of sorts.

But that must at the core of it be... because people are stupid or don't read lyrics... and then it snowballs from there.

So did Alive turn into an "anthem" or was it always looked upon as one, by people watching MTV and listening to hits on the radio.

I think it always was (to the listener). even though I knew all the lyrics, it never really dawned on me as to the real meaning. it was just that chorus that grabbed people and it sounded like an uplifting message.

take the Police's Every Breath You Take. I was just discussing this song with my daughter's guitar teacher two nights ago. everyone knows the lyrics. how many people have actually thought about it deeply? it's no love song, it's a fucking abusive relationship or stalker song. it's creepy as hell. But for 30 years I sung that like it was a love song. And most do.

I think song dynamics have a lot to do with it. how a word or phrase is sung, regardless of wording, is most likely what drives people to form their opinions on how they perceive it.

just a while ago, when I bought QOTSA's version of Elton's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road did I realize how fucking sad that song is. before I just really liked the melody of it. But a lot of people are just "groove" people, some people are "lyrics" people, and some are both.

it's funny how long it takes me to clue in to the meanings of songs, though, being a lyricist myself. LOL

lolobugg · June 2018

PJ_Soul said:

NWOntario said:

"Better Man" has turned into an absolute motherfucker-of-a-show-stopper. It should be played every single night.
I used to whine about The Tragically Hip not rotating songs often enough. I would give my remaining kidney to hear the most rote Tragically Hip setlist; one day I'll be saying the same thing about Pearl Jam and wishing I hadn't spent so much time complaining about setlists that are way more varied than pretty much any other band's.

I've got a problem with Better Man being some kind of joyful anthem that even Eddie for some reason pretends is about acutal good men, when in fact the lyrics are very explicitly about domestic abuse, and no matter how you spin, you can't make those lyrics mean anything other than that. That's why I don't like it anymore. Not so much because I'm bugged that a song about an important social issue has been twisted into some happy go lucky sing-a-long, although I don't like that, but because it just doesn't really make any damn sense now.

this is exactly my issue with it. the song has lost all meaning at this point.

can't find a better song? sure they can.

mcgruff10 · June 2018

NWOntario said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

NWOntario said:

"Better Man" has turned into an absolute motherfucker-of-a-show-stopper. It should be played every single night.
I used to whine about The Tragically Hip not rotating songs often enough. I would give my remaining kidney to hear the most rote Tragically Hip setlist; one day I'll be saying the same thing about Pearl Jam and wishing I hadn't spent so much time complaining about setlists that are way more varied than pretty much any other band's.

I've got a problem with Better Man being some kind of joyful anthem that even Eddie for some reason pretends is about acutal good men, when in fact the lyrics are very explicitly about domestic abuse, and no matter how you spin, you can't make those lyrics mean anything other than that. That's why I don't like it anymore. Not so much because I'm bugged that a song about an important social issue has been twisted into some happy go lucky sing-a-long, although I don't like that, but because it just doesn't really make any damn sense now.

I think sometimes a song can evolve in meaning, can take on a life of its own, especially when you see how the crowd reacts to it. I mean, Alive is a fucking dark song, but it's turned into a triumphant anthem of sorts.

Not even of sorts: it's a triumphant anthem full stop. "Alive" has turned into an "eff you" towards the mother, and I think it works...I mean, given how that chorus sounds it's kind of how the song had to evolve, y'know?

I absolutely hate the "yeah", "yeah", "yeah" fist pump during the end solo of alive. So cheesy imo. Just let McCready solo and melt my face.

Spiritual_Chaos · June 2018

mcgruff10 said:

NWOntario said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

NWOntario said:

"Better Man" has turned into an absolute motherfucker-of-a-show-stopper. It should be played every single night.
I used to whine about The Tragically Hip not rotating songs often enough. I would give my remaining kidney to hear the most rote Tragically Hip setlist; one day I'll be saying the same thing about Pearl Jam and wishing I hadn't spent so much time complaining about setlists that are way more varied than pretty much any other band's.

I've got a problem with Better Man being some kind of joyful anthem that even Eddie for some reason pretends is about acutal good men, when in fact the lyrics are very explicitly about domestic abuse, and no matter how you spin, you can't make those lyrics mean anything other than that. That's why I don't like it anymore. Not so much because I'm bugged that a song about an important social issue has been twisted into some happy go lucky sing-a-long, although I don't like that, but because it just doesn't really make any damn sense now.

I think sometimes a song can evolve in meaning, can take on a life of its own, especially when you see how the crowd reacts to it. I mean, Alive is a fucking dark song, but it's turned into a triumphant anthem of sorts.

Not even of sorts: it's a triumphant anthem full stop. "Alive" has turned into an "eff you" towards the mother, and I think it works...I mean, given how that chorus sounds it's kind of how the song had to evolve, y'know?

I absolutely hate the "yeah", "yeah", "yeah" fist pump during the end solo of alive. So cheesy imo. Just let McCready solo and melt my face.

Isn't saying that a solo "melts faces" a bit cheesy too?

Haha. :P

mcgruff10 · June 2018

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

NWOntario said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

NWOntario said:

"Better Man" has turned into an absolute motherfucker-of-a-show-stopper. It should be played every single night.
I used to whine about The Tragically Hip not rotating songs often enough. I would give my remaining kidney to hear the most rote Tragically Hip setlist; one day I'll be saying the same thing about Pearl Jam and wishing I hadn't spent so much time complaining about setlists that are way more varied than pretty much any other band's.

I've got a problem with Better Man being some kind of joyful anthem that even Eddie for some reason pretends is about acutal good men, when in fact the lyrics are very explicitly about domestic abuse, and no matter how you spin, you can't make those lyrics mean anything other than that. That's why I don't like it anymore. Not so much because I'm bugged that a song about an important social issue has been twisted into some happy go lucky sing-a-long, although I don't like that, but because it just doesn't really make any damn sense now.

I think sometimes a song can evolve in meaning, can take on a life of its own, especially when you see how the crowd reacts to it. I mean, Alive is a fucking dark song, but it's turned into a triumphant anthem of sorts.

Not even of sorts: it's a triumphant anthem full stop. "Alive" has turned into an "eff you" towards the mother, and I think it works...I mean, given how that chorus sounds it's kind of how the song had to evolve, y'know?

I absolutely hate the "yeah", "yeah", "yeah" fist pump during the end solo of alive. So cheesy imo. Just let McCready solo and melt my face.

Isn't saying that a solo "melts faces" a bit cheesy too?

Haha. :P

touche! lol. I was just using common terminology lol. But yeah, just let McCready completely destroy that solo without the "yeah" "yeah".

Spiritual_Chaos · June 2018

mrk2 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjsteelerfan said:

mrk2 said:

Vedd Hedd said:

It's always someone's first ever Pearl Jam show. Can you imagine a show in which you didnt get to hear at least ONE of the following:

Jeremy
Betterman
Black
Small Town
Yellow Ledbetter
Even Flow

Been there, done that :
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/pearl-jam/2007/wembley-arena-london-england-43d6a7df.html

Show would make for an excellent vault release

The power of having the entire floor be tenclub.

Copenhagen 2007 was better though. If there is such a thing as "better".

Agree. But both were great shows. The written setlist for Copenhagen was even better, they planned to end the show with Release and Indifference:

http://pearljamsetlists.tumblr.com/post/52803913799/2007-06-26-copenhagen-denmark-forum

Also dropped I'm Open / Come Back. I guess it was so emotional already that they couldn't get through it all.

@mcgruff10 There you almost had your show ending with release. Sort of :O

And I've been thinking that Breath was improvised for 11 years, because I remember Eddie talking to all the band members before the song started. But its on the setlist.

Good to know.

mcgruff10 · June 2018

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrk2 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjsteelerfan said:

mrk2 said:

Vedd Hedd said:

It's always someone's first ever Pearl Jam show. Can you imagine a show in which you didnt get to hear at least ONE of the following:

Jeremy
Betterman
Black
Small Town
Yellow Ledbetter
Even Flow

Been there, done that :
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/pearl-jam/2007/wembley-arena-london-england-43d6a7df.html

Show would make for an excellent vault release

The power of having the entire floor be tenclub.

Copenhagen 2007 was better though. If there is such a thing as "better".

Agree. But both were great shows. The written setlist for Copenhagen was even better, they planned to end the show with Release and Indifference:

http://pearljamsetlists.tumblr.com/post/52803913799/2007-06-26-copenhagen-denmark-forum

Also dropped I'm Open / Come Back. I guess it was so emotional already that they couldn't get through it all.

@mcgruff10 There you almost had your show ending with release. Sort of :O

And I've been thinking that Breath was improvised for 11 years, because I remember Eddie talking to all the band members before the song started. But its on the setlist.

Good to know.

so close! I wonder if release ever ended a show before.

BrokenGlass · June 2018

Travel with me in the WayBack machine 15 years ago and share the glory I was lucky enough to witness on back to back nights:

Cleveland, April 25, 2003

Encore 1

Encore 2

Pittsburgh, April 26, 2003

Encore 1

Encore 2

That's 30 songs night one, 28 in night two, 58 total, only 9 repeats.

Cleveland has an epic Daughter with multiple tags, probably 12 minutes long

RVM in Pittsburgh was the ultimate performance I've ever seen or heard. Stone ended up kneeling in front of the monitors making unearthly sounds emanate from everywhere.

For me, the 2003 tour was the last of great live Pearl Jam.

lolobugg · June 2018

BrokenGlass said:

Travel with me in the WayBack machine 15 years ago and share the glory I was lucky enough to witness on back to back nights:
Cleveland, April 25, 2003

Can't Keep
Corduroy
Grievance
Save You
Do The Evolution
Given To Fly
Elderly Woman Behind The Counter In A Small Town
Love Boat Captain
I Am Mine
Even Flow
Present Tense
Jeremy
Lukin
Not For You
Thumbing My Way
Spin The Black Circle
Alive
Encore 1

You Are
Animal
W.M.A.
Daughter
People Have The Power
State Of Love And Trust
Black
Encore 2

I Am A Patriot
Driven To Tears
Better Man
Crazy Mary
Sonic Reducer
Rockin' In The Free World

Pittsburgh, April 26, 2003

Elderly Woman Behind The Counter In A Small Town
Hail, Hail
Save You
Corduroy
Insignificance
Cropduster
Daughter
Even Flow
Faithfull
Whipping
Immortality
Blood
Down
Love Boat Captain
Wishlist
Better Man
Go
Encore 1

Last Kiss
Breakerfall
Once
Alive
Footsteps
Rearviewmirror
Encore 2

You've Got To Hide Your Love Away
Know Your Rights
Do The Evolution
Porch
Yellow Ledbetter
That's 30 songs night one, 28 in night two, 58 total, only 9 repeats.
Cleveland has an epic Daughter with multiple tags, probably 12 minutes long
RVM in Pittsburgh was the ultimate performance I've ever seen or heard. Stone ended up kneeling in front of the monitors making unearthly sounds emanate from everywhere.
For me, the 2003 tour was the last of great live Pearl Jam.

not too shabby there, playa

PJ_Soul · June 2018

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

NWOntario said:

"Better Man" has turned into an absolute motherfucker-of-a-show-stopper. It should be played every single night.
I used to whine about The Tragically Hip not rotating songs often enough. I would give my remaining kidney to hear the most rote Tragically Hip setlist; one day I'll be saying the same thing about Pearl Jam and wishing I hadn't spent so much time complaining about setlists that are way more varied than pretty much any other band's.

I've got a problem with Better Man being some kind of joyful anthem that even Eddie for some reason pretends is about acutal good men, when in fact the lyrics are very explicitly about domestic abuse, and no matter how you spin, you can't make those lyrics mean anything other than that. That's why I don't like it anymore. Not so much because I'm bugged that a song about an important social issue has been twisted into some happy go lucky sing-a-long, although I don't like that, but because it just doesn't really make any damn sense now.

I think sometimes a song can evolve in meaning, can take on a life of its own, especially when you see how the crowd reacts to it. I mean, Alive is a fucking dark song, but it's turned into a triumphant anthem of sorts.

Yeah, but Alive can actually make sense that way with the lyrics. I think that the lyrics to Better Man are simply too specific to the original meaning for this theory to work on it. I don't feel like those lyrics can (or should) be turned into an anthem. And even if the lyrics did lend themselves to that, as I mentioned, it does still also bother me that Better Man's meaning has been twisted like this because the meaning of the song should stay what it is for the sake of all the victims of domestic abuse out there. Sometimes song meanings shouldn't evolve because the original meaning matters, and this is one of those times in my own personal opinion. Since that didn't happen, it makes me hate the song at the shows.

NewJPage · June 2018

BrokenGlass said:

Travel with me in the WayBack machine 15 years ago and share the glory I was lucky enough to witness on back to back nights:
Cleveland, April 25, 2003

Can't Keep
Corduroy
Grievance
Save You
Do The Evolution
Given To Fly
Elderly Woman Behind The Counter In A Small Town
Love Boat Captain
I Am Mine
Even Flow
Present Tense
Jeremy
Lukin
Not For You
Thumbing My Way
Spin The Black Circle
Alive
Encore 1

You Are
Animal
W.M.A.
Daughter
People Have The Power
State Of Love And Trust
Black
Encore 2

I Am A Patriot
Driven To Tears
Better Man
Crazy Mary
Sonic Reducer
Rockin' In The Free World

Pittsburgh, April 26, 2003

Elderly Woman Behind The Counter In A Small Town
Hail, Hail
Save You
Corduroy
Insignificance
Cropduster
Daughter
Even Flow
Faithfull
Whipping
Immortality
Blood
Down
Love Boat Captain
Wishlist
Better Man
Go
Encore 1

Last Kiss
Breakerfall
Once
Alive
Footsteps
Rearviewmirror
Encore 2

You've Got To Hide Your Love Away
Know Your Rights
Do The Evolution
Porch
Yellow Ledbetter
That's 30 songs night one, 28 in night two, 58 total, only 9 repeats.
Cleveland has an epic Daughter with multiple tags, probably 12 minutes long
RVM in Pittsburgh was the ultimate performance I've ever seen or heard. Stone ended up kneeling in front of the monitors making unearthly sounds emanate from everywhere.
For me, the 2003 tour was the last of great live Pearl Jam.

Not to nitpick, but Cleveland was 28 songs. Wma and people have the power were tags...but one of my favorite shows out of I think 41...ed fell off the stage during ritfw! Thought he was actually hurt for a second

Jammalambo · June 2018

mcgruff10 said:
I wonder if release ever ended a show before.

Check out the 1992-04-12 show at Limelight to see how it feels like.. there's an excellent audio source around, as well as a couple of complete amateur videos out there.

HughFreakingDillon · June 2018

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

NWOntario said:

"Better Man" has turned into an absolute motherfucker-of-a-show-stopper. It should be played every single night.
I used to whine about The Tragically Hip not rotating songs often enough. I would give my remaining kidney to hear the most rote Tragically Hip setlist; one day I'll be saying the same thing about Pearl Jam and wishing I hadn't spent so much time complaining about setlists that are way more varied than pretty much any other band's.

I've got a problem with Better Man being some kind of joyful anthem that even Eddie for some reason pretends is about acutal good men, when in fact the lyrics are very explicitly about domestic abuse, and no matter how you spin, you can't make those lyrics mean anything other than that. That's why I don't like it anymore. Not so much because I'm bugged that a song about an important social issue has been twisted into some happy go lucky sing-a-long, although I don't like that, but because it just doesn't really make any damn sense now.

I think sometimes a song can evolve in meaning, can take on a life of its own, especially when you see how the crowd reacts to it. I mean, Alive is a fucking dark song, but it's turned into a triumphant anthem of sorts.

Yeah, but Alive can actually make sense that way with the lyrics. I think that the lyrics to Better Man are simply too specific to the original meaning for this theory to work on it. I don't feel like those lyrics can (or should) be turned into an anthem. And even if the lyrics did lend themselves to that, as I mentioned, it does still also bother me that Better Man's meaning has been twisted like this because the meaning of the song should stay what it is for the sake of all the victims of domestic abuse out there. Sometimes song meanings shouldn't evolve because the original meaning matters, and this is one of those times in my own personal opinion. Since that didn't happen, it makes me hate the song at the shows.

yeah, I agree with that. I guess I didn't really notice that betterman had become that because I just can't stand the song.

mcgruff10 · June 2018

Man they barely played two hours tonight in Italy. Of the 18 songs ed didn’t sing two of them. Yikes

Spiritual_Chaos · June 2018

mcgruff10 said:

Man they barely played two hours tonight in Italy. Of the 18 songs ed didn’t sing two of them. Yikes

It was a festival slot.

If they didn't get the festival to cut back their slot(?), then they filled up the time they had allotted?

And Eddie should sing even less, if it helps them through the tour. Dare to experiment Id say.

pj8 · June 2018

27-29 songs is perfect to me. PJ’s second encores in recent tours have become too predictable. 28 songs in Tulsa in 2014 was awesome because they made up for the length by jamming a little more than I’ve seen them in the past. The 3+ hour show in Hampton in 2016 is an exception for me because both encores that night were unique.

Shows are no longer 3 hours/ less encores/less songs? Discuss

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