Ticketmaster facial recognition tickets

Bentleyspop · May 2018

Nine Inch Nails announced their American tour today and there will be NO online pre-sales. All ticket pre-sales must be done in person at the venue box office.
Like the old days.

http://www.nin.com/tickets2018/

cutz · May 2018

Bentleyspop said:

Nine Inch Nails announced their American tour today and there will be NO online sales. All ticket sales must be done in person.
Like the old days.

And will scalpers be in line too?

pjhawks · May 2018

willbarclay said:

I went to Gord Downie's Secret path concert in Ottawa and it was a credit card system. You did not get mailed any tickets in advance. You showed up inside the venue with the credit card you charged and they scanned it and printed off a ticket for your assigned seat.
The lineup for this was actually in the lobby right at the entrance doors to the theater room. Makes it much harder for scalpers to pull off their heist.Eddieredder said:

elvistheking44 said:

PJ_Soul said:

elvistheking44 said:

Eddieredder said:

my2hands said:

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done?

No, and thats the problem now. Bots and scalpers buy a majority of the tickets.

Majority? I don't think so. Secondary sites have a very small portion of tickets for sale. The majority of tickets go to fans and people who buy them at the exact moment they go on sale. If I really want to go to a show I make damn sure to have everything in order and start refreshing the page WAY ahead of time.......

That isn't really true. A lot of the time only about 30 - 40% of tickets are even available for the fans to buy in the first place.

I’m gonna need to see a fact link on that one. Sure there are all kinds of presales now and different fan experiences offered by the band but I’m still not buying that number. So what your saying is that 60-70% aren’t even offered for sale.

I've read as low as 20% in some cases. Fan clubs + promoter + venue + presales + the band alottment etc etc etc. After that it doesn't leave much left at the general public sale. Then come the bots.....

https://www.theringer.com/2016/6/3/16045790/ticket-industry-problem-solution-e4b3b71fdff6

Many of us here benefit from fan club sales so hard to really complain too loudly about those. It's a bit hypocritical to gain benefits through this club for tickets than complain that the general public doesn't get many chances.

as bad as scalpers are I like the idea of having a Stub Hub available to me so i can basically see any show or any sporting event I choose as long as I'm willing to pay. Yes i understand this feeds the scalpers but as I get older I just wanna see what I wanna see.

CopperTom · May 2018

cutz said:

Bentleyspop said:

Nine Inch Nails announced their American tour today and there will be NO online sales. All ticket sales must be done in person.
Like the old days.

And will scalpers be in line too?

Worst. Idea. Ever. It fucks over everyone who doesn't live in the major market.

Eddieredder · May 2018

CopperTom said:

cutz said:

Bentleyspop said:

Nine Inch Nails announced their American tour today and there will be NO online sales. All ticket sales must be done in person.
Like the old days.

And will scalpers be in line too?

Worst. Idea. Ever. It fucks over everyone who doesn't live in the major market.

And because the tixs are that much harder to get. Watch the resale value skyrocket.

PJ_Soul · May 2018

I wonder why they didn't just stick with credit card entry? That's what they were doing before, and it works.

Eddieredder · May 2018

pjhawks said:

willbarclay said:

I went to Gord Downie's Secret path concert in Ottawa and it was a credit card system. You did not get mailed any tickets in advance. You showed up inside the venue with the credit card you charged and they scanned it and printed off a ticket for your assigned seat.
The lineup for this was actually in the lobby right at the entrance doors to the theater room. Makes it much harder for scalpers to pull off their heist.Eddieredder said:

elvistheking44 said:

PJ_Soul said:

elvistheking44 said:

Eddieredder said:

my2hands said:

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done?

No, and thats the problem now. Bots and scalpers buy a majority of the tickets.

Majority? I don't think so. Secondary sites have a very small portion of tickets for sale. The majority of tickets go to fans and people who buy them at the exact moment they go on sale. If I really want to go to a show I make damn sure to have everything in order and start refreshing the page WAY ahead of time.......

That isn't really true. A lot of the time only about 30 - 40% of tickets are even available for the fans to buy in the first place.

I’m gonna need to see a fact link on that one. Sure there are all kinds of presales now and different fan experiences offered by the band but I’m still not buying that number. So what your saying is that 60-70% aren’t even offered for sale.

I've read as low as 20% in some cases. Fan clubs + promoter + venue + presales + the band alottment etc etc etc. After that it doesn't leave much left at the general public sale. Then come the bots.....

https://www.theringer.com/2016/6/3/16045790/ticket-industry-problem-solution-e4b3b71fdff6

Many of us here benefit from fan club sales so hard to really complain too loudly about those. It's a bit hypocritical to gain benefits through this club for tickets than complain that the general public doesn't get many chances.

as bad as scalpers are I like the idea of having a Stub Hub available to me so i can basically see any show or any sporting event I choose as long as I'm willing to pay. Yes i understand this feeds the scalpers but as I get older I just wanna see what I wanna see.

Really wasn't the point. Just wanted to show the percentage that is actually available to any event to public sale. I think thats important to understand for anyone. I'll never complain about 10c. If it was up to me all tickets would go through them!

I'm no hypocrite. I've also bought plenty of tickets from scalpers and or secondary markets. Gotta do what you gotta do sometimes. That doesn't make the times when I get shutout any easier or better. I'm all for any precautions that gets more tickets in the hands of people who want to be there vs those who are looking to profit. Secondary market will ALWAYS be there in one way or another.

AndySlash · May 2018

elvistheking44 said:

Eddieredder said:

my2hands said:

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done?

No, and thats the problem now. Bots and scalpers buy a majority of the tickets.

Majority? I don't think so. Secondary sites have a very small portion of tickets for sale. The majority of tickets go to fans and people who buy them at the exact moment they go on sale.

where’s *your* fact link to back this claim up? i’m gonna need to see that one.

elvistheking44 · May 2018

AndySlash said:

elvistheking44 said:

Eddieredder said:

my2hands said:

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done?

No, and thats the problem now. Bots and scalpers buy a majority of the tickets.

Majority? I don't think so. Secondary sites have a very small portion of tickets for sale. The majority of tickets go to fans and people who buy them at the exact moment they go on sale.

where’s *your* fact link to back this claim up? i’m gonna need to see that one.

Stubhub.com. Find me any event or venue where the majority of tix are for sale from a scalper.

Lost In Ohio · May 2018

Eddieredder said:

my2hands said:

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done?

No, and thats the problem now. Bots and scalpers buy a majority of the tickets.

A majority of the tickets that actually make it to public sale, that is...not a majority of the original allotment, not that I was accusing you of confusing the two.

Each venue probably has at least 3-4 presales between season ticket holders, certain credit cards, fan clubs and who knows what else.

If a season ticket account averages two seats and there's 9k ticket holders, that's 18k tickets right there... because you know some people buy the maximum allowed just to flip to buy their season tickets.

If anyone with a Chase bank account has access to a presale, well...

Throw in a fan club which doesn't deter scalpers at all...

And how many tickets out of 35k are really left for the unwashed masses?

35k original stock minus 18k for season ticket holders is 17k
17k minus 4k is 13k.

Let's say 3,500 for fan club.

9500 left...and that assumes only the presales outlined above. Now, if it's a shared arena (say LA where three teams play), then you have three sets of season ticket holders.

Depending on the team, if someone has a partial season, someone else could have that same seat for other games...and they're both eligible for presale tickets.

That's about a quarter of the original stock actually left for the onsale. Considering that the fan club may get 10% of that original stock, well, it's really not that much of a percentage difference (10C odds site) by the time you factor in members who lost vs everyone else...and that doesn't even factor in bots.

So yeah, it's a mess...I'll admit that. But the bots are a small part of why it's a mess.

Zod · May 2018

Lost In Ohio said:

So yeah, it's a mess...I'll admit that. But the bots are a small part of why it's a mess.

Plus, promoters sell blocks of tickets directly to scalpers, to try and make up for how much they offer to pay a band for playing a show.

I agree with you. The bots are a bit of a red herring. They get all scorn which deflects from the fact that by the time you get to the public onsale, a large chunk of the tickets are already gone. Bots (like people) only get to pick from what's left over.

I'd be dissapointed if shows went back to the oldshool standing in line. Back in those days TM had outlets here, so you could lineup for Vancouver shows here in Victoria. Both TM outlets here are gone because you can buy your tickets online. It would suck alot having to travel to Vancouver just to get tickets :( Luckily there's no Vancouver NIN show

LeafsJaysCubsRaptorsFan · May 2018

cutz said:

Bentleyspop said:

Nine Inch Nails announced their American tour today and there will be NO online sales. All ticket sales must be done in person.
Like the old days.

And will scalpers be in line too?

For sure and you can bet the homeless people will
be getting paid

LeafsJaysCubsRaptorsFan · May 2018

Zod said:

Lost In Ohio said:

So yeah, it's a mess...I'll admit that. But the bots are a small part of why it's a mess.

Plus, promoters sell blocks of tickets directly to scalpers, to try and make up for how much they offer to pay a band for playing a show.

I agree with you. The bots are a bit of a red herring. They get all scorn which deflects from the fact that by the time you get to the public onsale, a large chunk of the tickets are already gone. Bots (like people) only get to pick from what's left over.

I'd be dissapointed if shows went back to the oldshool standing in line. Back in those days TM had outlets here, so you could lineup for Vancouver shows here in Victoria. Both TM outlets here are gone because you can buy your tickets online. It would suck alot having to travel to Vancouver just to get tickets :( Luckily there's no Vancouver NIN show

I remember lining up outside a sunrise records and a draw would be held to see the purchase order. Doesn’t cut the scalpers out but at least it gave everyone a shot no matter when you arrived. Wouldn’t work these days though.

cutz · October 2019

Concert promoters turn away from facial recognition tech

https://nypost.com/2019/10/30/concert-promoters-turn-away-from-facial-recognition-tech/

By Associated Press

October 30, 2019 | 1:33pm

BOSTON — Concert promoters in the US are stepping back from plans to scan festivalgoers with facial recognition technology after musicians and others gave it some serious side-eye.

Although it remains entirely possible that music venues will eventually take a second look at the controversial technology.

Live-entertainment giants AEG Presents and Live Nation both recently disavowed any plans to use facial recognition at music festivals, despite earlier indications to the contrary. Their public pronouncements have led a group of musicians to declare victory after a months-long campaign to halt the technology’s use at live shows.

Advances in computer vision have enabled businesses to install cameras that can recognize individuals by their face or other biometric characteristics. Venue operators have talked about using the technology at gateways to secure entry for select groups or to offer perks for repeat customers.

Privacy advocates worry that such uses might also pave the way for greater intrusions, such as scanning audience members in real-time to analyze their behavior.

Both concert organizations seemed to be edging toward remembering more faces. In May 2018, for instance, Live Nation subsidiary Ticketmaster announced it was partnering with and investing in Texas facial recognition startup Blink Identity, saying in a note to shareholders that its technology will enable music fans to associate their digital ticket with their image and “then just walk into the show.”

AEG, which operates the Coachella festival in southern California and other major events, updated its online privacy policy earlier this year with language stating that it may collect facial images at its events and venues for “access control,” creating aggregate data or for “personalization” — a term commonly used by retailers trying to tailor advertising or promotions to a specific customer’s behavior.

Now, however, both organizations have done an about-face. AEG’s chief operating officer for festivals, Melissa Ormond, emailed activists earlier this month to say: “AEG festivals do not use facial recognition technology and do not have plans to implement.” AEG confirmed that statement this week but declined further comment.

Live Nation said in a statement that “we do not currently have plans to deploy facial recognition technology at our clients’ venues.” The company insisted that any future use would be “strictly opt-in,” so that non-consenting fans won’t have to worry about potentially facing the music.

Facial recognition isn’t seen in many musical venues. The biggest location known to employ it is New York City’s Madison Square Garden, which confirmed this week that facial recognition is one of the security measures it uses “to ensure the safety of everyone” in the arena. It declined to say what it looks at and why. The New York Times first reported its use last year.

While the music industry paused, Major League Baseball stole a base by rolling out biometric ticketing in the US, usually involving fingerprints or iris scans to get into ballparks. Authorities in some parts of Europe have bounced around the idea of using either facial or voice recognition to keep tabs on unruly soccer fans, such as those participating in racist chants. Police agencies in China have used facial recognition at concerts featuring pop singer Jacky Cheung to identify and arrest people wanted as criminal suspects.

American music event promoters this fall have been pressured to disclose their facial recognition plans by digital rights group Fight for the Future, which asked dozens of festival organizers to pledge not to use a technology it describes as invasive and racially biased.

For some, it was an easy answer. Organizers of the Summer Meltdown Festival outside Seattle said they are “happily free of facial recognition technology.” Also confirming they don’t use it were hosts of events including South by Southwest, Lollapalooza, Bonnaroo, Governors Ball and the Voodoo Music and Arts Experience in New Orleans.

Rage Against The Machine guitarist Tom Morello co-authored an opinion column in BuzzFeed last week that described the pledge as the “first major blow to the spread of commercial facial recognition in the United States.”

The CEO of Blink Identity says opposition to its Ticketmaster partnership is misguided.

“They’re talking about mass surveillance,” said Mary Haskett, who co-founded the Austin, Texas startup. “We’re against mass surveillance…. Nobody’s talking about doing what they’re protesting against.”

Haskett said Blink’s system allows concertgoers to opt in by taking selfies with their phones, which the company transforms into mathematical representations and deletes. The system might offer access to a shorter line or a VIP section.

But protesting musicians fear their fans’ mugshots could still end up in the hands of law enforcement or immigration authorities.

“Of course it’s going to be used by security,” said Joey La Neve DeFrancesco, a guitarist for Rhode Island punk band Downtown Boys, which played Coachella in 2017. “Of course it’s going to be used by law enforcement.”

Punk rockers aren’t the only ones fixing the technology with a death stare. A June survey by the Pew Research Center found that while people are generally accepting of facial recognition used by police, only 36 percent said they trust tech companies to deploy it responsibly. Just 18 percent trust advertisers.

Foriginal Sin · October 2019

There’s a lot going on here that I won’t read but do they discuss how you find your seat and if someone else claims it’s their seat? Most venues don’t allow you to walk into lower areas without a ticket, how would that all work out?

Poncier · October 2019

Foriginal Sin said:

There’s a lot going on here that I won’t read but do they discuss how you find your seat and if someone else claims it’s their seat? Most venues don’t allow you to walk into lower areas without a ticket, how would that all work out?

If the facial recognition software recognizes you in an area of the venue in which you don't belong, the chip in your arm secretes a lethal dose of Strychnine.

PB11041 · October 2019

A better answer to this fiasco is complete decentralization of a single dominant player in the business.

Foriginal Sin · October 2019

Poncier said:

Foriginal Sin said:

There’s a lot going on here that I won’t read but do they discuss how you find your seat and if someone else claims it’s their seat? Most venues don’t allow you to walk into lower areas without a ticket, how would that all work out?

If the facial recognition software recognizes you in an area of the venue in which you don't belong, the chip in your arm secretes a lethal dose of Strychnine.

Hahahahaha

Zod · October 2019

PB11041 said:

A better answer to this fiasco is complete decentralization of a single dominant player in the business.

I think that would help a little, but not a lot. It could help break up the reselling business where I think TM overstepped, and also could help the monopoly on venues. It could help drive down service fees. On the other hand it's not going to help scalping, premium tickets, vip tickets, or bots. Most of things are things promoters utilize to increase revenue. Bots would probably work better, because if there's no one entity selling the tickets, how much can they really afford to build their platform.

PB11041 · October 2019

Zod said:

PB11041 said:

A better answer to this fiasco is complete decentralization of a single dominant player in the business.

I think that would help a little, but not a lot. It could help break up the reselling business where I think TM overstepped, and also could help the monopoly on venues. It could help drive down service fees. On the other hand it's not going to help scalping, premium tickets, vip tickets, or bots. Most of things are things promoters utilize to increase revenue. Bots would probably work better, because if there's no one entity selling the tickets, how much can they really afford to build their platform.

The more entities a promoter has to deal with, the more challenging it is to manage the process for setting up a reselling distribution chain. Currently it takes minimal to no effort because virtually every ticket to every major venue goes through a single point of contact, TM/Live Nation.

Ticketmaster facial recognition tickets

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Concert promoters turn away from facial recognition tech

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