Ticketmaster facial recognition tickets

Eddieredder

Not a fan of ticketmaster, but this actually seems like a decent idea to battle scalpers and resale sites.

https://www.altpress.com/news/entry/ticketmaster_facial_recognition_tickets

I'm sure its also self serving. It usually is. I'm sure they limit transfers and resale to their own marketplace right? With any technology there is bound to be tons of pushback. Regardless of the motive or outcome they still suck. FU ticketmaster

my2hands

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done? now I need a smart phone, an app, a photo id, the original CC, fingerprint, and facial recognition.... just to attend a 3 hour concert  

this stuff is getting out of control, if it comes down to facial recognition I will just stay home

Eddieredder

my2hands said:

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done? 

No, and thats the problem now. Bots and scalpers buy a majority of the tickets.   

willbarclay

Eddieredder said:

my2hands said:

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done? 

No, and thats the problem now. Bots and scalpers buy a majority of the tickets.   

Im probably more likely to pay a scalper extra money just so that I don't have to go to the hassle of facial recognition and the other 10 hurdles it will take to purchase a ticket.

tempo_n_groove

NY doesn't have scalper laws which is why you had the opportunity to have your TOTD tix mailed to you.

NY actually welcomes the scalping industry.  Politicians don't give a shit here...

rummy

my2hands said:

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done? now I need a smart phone, an app, a photo id, the original CC, fingerprint, and facial recognition.... just to attend a 3 hour concert  

this stuff is getting out of control, if it comes down to facial recognition I will just stay home

Amen to that.

lolobugg

tempo_n_groove said:

NY doesn't have scalper laws which is why you had the opportunity to have your TOTD tix mailed to you.

NY actually welcomes the scalping industry.  Politicians don't give a shit here...

well they did just take down your AG that was fighting the ticket brokers.

that is going to hurt the fight against scalpers.

PJ_Soul

I'm open to pretty much anything as long as refunds on tickets are made available. I don't like any system that screws over people who end up not being able to attend a show because of uncontrollable circumstances. No system should result in people being forced to actually waste a ticket (nothing worse than empty seats) and waste their money.

rummy

PJ_Soul said:

I'm open to pretty much anything as long as refunds on tickets are made available. I don't like any system that screws over people who end up not being able to attend a show because of uncontrollable circumstances. No system should result in people being forced to actually waste a ticket (nothing worse than empty seats) and waste their money.

I tend to agree with this point as well - especially if the show is a "sell out." 

Eddieredder

PJ_Soul said:

I'm open to pretty much anything as long as refunds on tickets are made available. I don't like any system that screws over people who end up not being able to attend a show because of uncontrollable circumstances. No system should result in people being forced to actually waste a ticket (nothing worse than empty seats) and waste their money.

I would assume you could still transfer or resell on Ticketmaster's marketplace. Probably the only option since you have to use their technology. They aren't going to cut off their profit opportunity. Like I said its extremely self serving. 

PJ_Soul

Eddieredder said:

PJ_Soul said:

I'm open to pretty much anything as long as refunds on tickets are made available. I don't like any system that screws over people who end up not being able to attend a show because of uncontrollable circumstances. No system should result in people being forced to actually waste a ticket (nothing worse than empty seats) and waste their money.

I would assume you could still transfer or resell on Ticketmaster's marketplace. Probably the only option since you have to use their technology. They aren't going to cut off their profit opportunity. Like I said its extremely self serving. 

Yeah, but that I don't love. When you can transfer or resell, that is still leaving the door wide open for scalping, and I thought the point was to stop that shit. Plus, I can't even believe it's legal for TM to have that marketplace. It's insane, and I'm pissed off that the government hasn't done anything about that yet. Talk about a conflict of interest. It's just a huge scam!

TH113769

Eddieredder said:

PJ_Soul said:

I'm open to pretty much anything as long as refunds on tickets are made available. I don't like any system that screws over people who end up not being able to attend a show because of uncontrollable circumstances. No system should result in people being forced to actually waste a ticket (nothing worse than empty seats) and waste their money.

I would assume you could still transfer or resell on Ticketmaster's marketplace. Probably the only option since you have to use their technology. They aren't going to cut off their profit opportunity. Like I said its extremely self serving. 

^^^^^ is exactly what they want to do - it kills all resale other than on their site, which would technically violate anti-trust laws I believe.  

PP193448

They should consider doing a middle finger recognition instead, because lots of people would give that to TM...

willbarclay

I went to Gord Downie's Secret path concert in Ottawa and it was a credit card system. You did not get mailed any tickets in advance. You showed up inside the venue with the credit card you charged and they scanned it and printed off a ticket for your assigned seat.

The lineup for this was actually in the lobby right at the entrance doors to the theater room. Makes it much harder for scalpers to pull off their heist.

Travelar

There are way too many issues with facial recognition for this to be viable. It has it's place, but consumerism is not that place.

lolobugg

PP193448 said:

They should consider doing a middle finger recognition instead, because lots of people would give that to TM...

they are very familiar with mine!

Zod

willbarclay said:

I went to Gord Downie's Secret path concert in Ottawa and it was a credit card system. You did not get mailed any tickets in advance. You showed up inside the venue with the credit card you charged and they scanned it and printed off a ticket for your assigned seat.

The lineup for this was actually in the lobby right at the entrance doors to the theater room. Makes it much harder for scalpers to pull off their heist.

Ticketmaster has that, they call it paperless ticketing.  It works pretty good.  Probably better than anything else I can think of.  The one minor drawback is that some scalpers figured out you could simply charge the tickets to a VISA or Mastercard gift card.    Then you give the gift card to the buyer.    Still a bit of pain, so paperless still works pretty good.

People complain you can't transfer your tickets.   Personally I've been going to concerts for over 20 years, and seen hundreds of shows.   I can think of 2 or 3 where something came up that I couldn't make.  Illness/Emergency etc... 99.7% it's not an issue.   I'd gladly eat a few pairs over the span of a few decades, to make it harder to scalp tickets.

Anything you do to make it easier for fans to sell/transfer tickets, makes it easier for scalpers to do so.  

elvistheking44

Eddieredder said:

my2hands said:

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done? 

No, and thats the problem now. Bots and scalpers buy a majority of the tickets.   

Majority?  I don't think so.  Secondary sites have a very small portion of tickets for sale.  The majority of tickets go to fans and people who buy them at the exact moment they go on sale.  If I really want to go to a show I make damn sure to have everything in order and start refreshing the page WAY ahead of time.......

PJ_Soul

elvistheking44 said:

Eddieredder said:

my2hands said:

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done? 

No, and thats the problem now. Bots and scalpers buy a majority of the tickets.   

Majority?  I don't think so.  Secondary sites have a very small portion of tickets for sale.  The majority of tickets go to fans and people who buy them at the exact moment they go on sale.  If I really want to go to a show I make damn sure to have everything in order and start refreshing the page WAY ahead of time.......

That isn't really true. A lot of the time only about 30 - 40% of tickets are even available for the fans to buy in the first place.

elvistheking44

PJ_Soul said:

elvistheking44 said:

Eddieredder said:

my2hands said:

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done? 

No, and thats the problem now. Bots and scalpers buy a majority of the tickets.   

Majority?  I don't think so.  Secondary sites have a very small portion of tickets for sale.  The majority of tickets go to fans and people who buy them at the exact moment they go on sale.  If I really want to go to a show I make damn sure to have everything in order and start refreshing the page WAY ahead of time.......

That isn't really true. A lot of the time only about 30 - 40% of tickets are even available for the fans to buy in the first place.

I’m gonna need to see a fact link on that one. Sure there are all kinds of presales now and different fan experiences offered by the band but I’m still not buying that number.  So what your saying is that 60-70% aren’t even offered for sale. 

Eddieredder

elvistheking44 said:

PJ_Soul said:

elvistheking44 said:

Eddieredder said:

my2hands said:

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done? 

No, and thats the problem now. Bots and scalpers buy a majority of the tickets.   

Majority?  I don't think so.  Secondary sites have a very small portion of tickets for sale.  The majority of tickets go to fans and people who buy them at the exact moment they go on sale.  If I really want to go to a show I make damn sure to have everything in order and start refreshing the page WAY ahead of time.......

That isn't really true. A lot of the time only about 30 - 40% of tickets are even available for the fans to buy in the first place.

I’m gonna need to see a fact link on that one. Sure there are all kinds of presales now and different fan experiences offered by the band but I’m still not buying that number.  So what your saying is that 60-70% aren’t even offered for sale. 

I've read as low as 20% in some cases. Fan clubs + promoter + venue + presales + the band alottment etc etc etc. After that it doesn't leave much left at the general public sale. Then come the bots.....

https://www.theringer.com/2016/6/3/16045790/ticket-industry-problem-solution-e4b3b71fdff6

Bentleyspop

Nine Inch Nails announced their American tour today and there will be NO online pre-sales.  All ticket pre-sales must be done in person at the venue box office.
Like the old days.

http://www.nin.com/tickets2018/

cutz

Bentleyspop said:

Nine Inch Nails announced their American tour today and there will be NO online sales.  All ticket sales must be done in person.
Like the old days.

And will scalpers  be in line too?

pjhawks

willbarclay said:

I went to Gord Downie's Secret path concert in Ottawa and it was a credit card system. You did not get mailed any tickets in advance. You showed up inside the venue with the credit card you charged and they scanned it and printed off a ticket for your assigned seat.

The lineup for this was actually in the lobby right at the entrance doors to the theater room. Makes it much harder for scalpers to pull off their heist.Eddieredder said:

elvistheking44 said:

PJ_Soul said:

elvistheking44 said:

Eddieredder said:

my2hands said:

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done? 

No, and thats the problem now. Bots and scalpers buy a majority of the tickets.   

Majority?  I don't think so.  Secondary sites have a very small portion of tickets for sale.  The majority of tickets go to fans and people who buy them at the exact moment they go on sale.  If I really want to go to a show I make damn sure to have everything in order and start refreshing the page WAY ahead of time.......

That isn't really true. A lot of the time only about 30 - 40% of tickets are even available for the fans to buy in the first place.

I’m gonna need to see a fact link on that one. Sure there are all kinds of presales now and different fan experiences offered by the band but I’m still not buying that number.  So what your saying is that 60-70% aren’t even offered for sale. 

I've read as low as 20% in some cases. Fan clubs + promoter + venue + presales + the band alottment etc etc etc. After that it doesn't leave much left at the general public sale. Then come the bots.....

https://www.theringer.com/2016/6/3/16045790/ticket-industry-problem-solution-e4b3b71fdff6

Many of us here benefit from fan club sales so hard to really complain too loudly about those.  It's a bit hypocritical to gain benefits through this club for tickets than complain that the general public doesn't get many chances.  

as bad as scalpers are I like the idea of having a Stub Hub available to me so i can basically see any show or any sporting event I choose as long as I'm willing to pay.  Yes i understand this feeds the scalpers but as I get older I just wanna see what I wanna see.

CopperTom

cutz said:

Bentleyspop said:

Nine Inch Nails announced their American tour today and there will be NO online sales.  All ticket sales must be done in person.
Like the old days.

And will scalpers  be in line too?

Worst.  Idea.  Ever.  It fucks over everyone who doesn't live in the major market.

Eddieredder

CopperTom said:

cutz said:

Bentleyspop said:

Nine Inch Nails announced their American tour today and there will be NO online sales.  All ticket sales must be done in person.
Like the old days.

And will scalpers  be in line too?

Worst.  Idea.  Ever.  It fucks over everyone who doesn't live in the major market.

And because the tixs are that much harder to get. Watch the resale value skyrocket.

PJ_Soul

I wonder why they didn't just stick with credit card entry? That's what they were doing before, and it works.

Eddieredder

pjhawks said:

willbarclay said:

I went to Gord Downie's Secret path concert in Ottawa and it was a credit card system. You did not get mailed any tickets in advance. You showed up inside the venue with the credit card you charged and they scanned it and printed off a ticket for your assigned seat.

The lineup for this was actually in the lobby right at the entrance doors to the theater room. Makes it much harder for scalpers to pull off their heist.Eddieredder said:

elvistheking44 said:

PJ_Soul said:

elvistheking44 said:

Eddieredder said:

my2hands said:

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done? 

No, and thats the problem now. Bots and scalpers buy a majority of the tickets.   

Majority?  I don't think so.  Secondary sites have a very small portion of tickets for sale.  The majority of tickets go to fans and people who buy them at the exact moment they go on sale.  If I really want to go to a show I make damn sure to have everything in order and start refreshing the page WAY ahead of time.......

That isn't really true. A lot of the time only about 30 - 40% of tickets are even available for the fans to buy in the first place.

I’m gonna need to see a fact link on that one. Sure there are all kinds of presales now and different fan experiences offered by the band but I’m still not buying that number.  So what your saying is that 60-70% aren’t even offered for sale. 

I've read as low as 20% in some cases. Fan clubs + promoter + venue + presales + the band alottment etc etc etc. After that it doesn't leave much left at the general public sale. Then come the bots.....

https://www.theringer.com/2016/6/3/16045790/ticket-industry-problem-solution-e4b3b71fdff6

Many of us here benefit from fan club sales so hard to really complain too loudly about those.  It's a bit hypocritical to gain benefits through this club for tickets than complain that the general public doesn't get many chances.  

as bad as scalpers are I like the idea of having a Stub Hub available to me so i can basically see any show or any sporting event I choose as long as I'm willing to pay.  Yes i understand this feeds the scalpers but as I get older I just wanna see what I wanna see.

Really wasn't the point. Just wanted to show the percentage that is actually available to any event to public sale. I think thats important to understand for anyone.  I'll never complain about 10c. If it was up to me all tickets would go through them!

I'm no hypocrite. I've also bought plenty of tickets from scalpers and or secondary markets. Gotta do what you gotta do sometimes. That doesn't make the times when I get shutout any easier or better. I'm all for any precautions that gets more tickets in the hands of people who want to be there vs those who are looking to profit. Secondary market will ALWAYS be there in one way or another. 

AndySlash

elvistheking44 said:

Eddieredder said:

my2hands said:

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done? 

No, and thats the problem now. Bots and scalpers buy a majority of the tickets.   

Majority?  I don't think so.  Secondary sites have a very small portion of tickets for sale.  The majority of tickets go to fans and people who buy them at the exact moment they go on sale.

where’s *your* fact link to back this claim up? i’m gonna need to see that one.

elvistheking44

AndySlash said:

elvistheking44 said:

Eddieredder said:

my2hands said:

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done? 

No, and thats the problem now. Bots and scalpers buy a majority of the tickets.   

Majority?  I don't think so.  Secondary sites have a very small portion of tickets for sale.  The majority of tickets go to fans and people who buy them at the exact moment they go on sale.

where’s *your* fact link to back this claim up? i’m gonna need to see that one.

Stubhub.com. Find me any event or venue where the majority of tix are for sale from a scalper.

Lost In Ohio

Eddieredder said:

my2hands said:

cant I just but a ticket, walk up to the door, and hand it over like I've always done? 

No, and thats the problem now. Bots and scalpers buy a majority of the tickets.   

A majority of the tickets that actually make it to public sale, that is...not a majority of the original allotment, not that I was accusing you of confusing the two.

Each venue probably has at least 3-4 presales between season ticket holders, certain credit cards, fan clubs and who knows what else.

If a season ticket account averages two seats and there's 9k ticket holders, that's 18k tickets right there... because you know some people buy the maximum allowed just to flip to buy their season tickets.

If anyone with a Chase bank account has access to a presale, well...

Throw in a fan club which doesn't deter scalpers at all...



And how many tickets out of 35k are really left for the unwashed masses?

35k original stock minus 18k for season ticket holders is 17k
17k minus 4k is 13k.

Let's say 3,500 for fan club.

9500 left...and that assumes only the presales outlined above. Now, if it's a shared arena (say LA where three teams play), then you have three sets of season ticket holders.

Depending on the team, if someone has a partial season, someone else could have that same seat for other games...and they're both eligible for presale tickets.

That's about a quarter of the original stock actually left for the onsale. Considering that the fan club may get 10% of that original stock, well, it's really not that much of a percentage difference (10C odds site) by the time you factor in members who lost vs everyone else...and that doesn't even factor in bots.


So yeah, it's a mess...I'll admit that. But the bots are a small part of why it's a mess.