Ticketmaster facial recognition tickets

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Comments

  • ZodZod Posts: 9,945


    So yeah, it's a mess...I'll admit that. But the bots are a small part of why it's a mess.
    Plus, promoters sell blocks of tickets directly to scalpers, to try and make up for how much they offer to pay a band for playing a show.

    I agree with you.   The bots are a bit of a red herring.  They get all scorn which deflects from the fact that by the time you get to the public onsale, a large chunk of the tickets are already gone.  Bots (like people) only get to pick from what's left over.

    I'd be dissapointed if shows went back to the oldshool standing in line.  Back in those days TM had outlets here, so you could lineup for Vancouver shows here in Victoria.   Both TM outlets here are gone because you can buy your tickets online.  It would suck alot having to travel to Vancouver just to get tickets :(  Luckily there's no Vancouver NIN show :)
  • cutz said:
    Nine Inch Nails announced their American tour today and there will be NO online sales.  All ticket sales must be done in person.
    Like the old days.
    And will scalpers  be in line too?
    For sure and you can bet the homeless people will
    be getting paid
  • Zod said:


    So yeah, it's a mess...I'll admit that. But the bots are a small part of why it's a mess.
    Plus, promoters sell blocks of tickets directly to scalpers, to try and make up for how much they offer to pay a band for playing a show.

    I agree with you.   The bots are a bit of a red herring.  They get all scorn which deflects from the fact that by the time you get to the public onsale, a large chunk of the tickets are already gone.  Bots (like people) only get to pick from what's left over.

    I'd be dissapointed if shows went back to the oldshool standing in line.  Back in those days TM had outlets here, so you could lineup for Vancouver shows here in Victoria.   Both TM outlets here are gone because you can buy your tickets online.  It would suck alot having to travel to Vancouver just to get tickets :(  Luckily there's no Vancouver NIN show :)
    I remember lining up outside a sunrise records and a draw would be held to see the purchase order. Doesn’t cut the scalpers out but at least it gave everyone a shot no matter when you arrived. Wouldn’t work these days though.
  • cutzcutz Posts: 11,400

    Concert promoters turn away from facial recognition tech


    https://nypost.com/2019/10/30/concert-promoters-turn-away-from-facial-recognition-tech/

    By Associated Press

    October 30, 2019 | 1:33pm

    BOSTON — Concert promoters in the US are stepping back from plans to scan festivalgoers with facial recognition technology after musicians and others gave it some serious side-eye.

    Although it remains entirely possible that music venues will eventually take a second look at the controversial technology.

    Live-entertainment giants AEG Presents and Live Nation both recently disavowed any plans to use facial recognition at music festivals, despite earlier indications to the contrary. Their public pronouncements have led a group of musicians to declare victory after a months-long campaign to halt the technology’s use at live shows.

    Advances in computer vision have enabled businesses to install cameras that can recognize individuals by their face or other biometric characteristics. Venue operators have talked about using the technology at gateways to secure entry for select groups or to offer perks for repeat customers.

    Privacy advocates worry that such uses might also pave the way for greater intrusions, such as scanning audience members in real-time to analyze their behavior.

    Both concert organizations seemed to be edging toward remembering more faces. In May 2018, for instance, Live Nation subsidiary Ticketmaster announced it was partnering with and investing in Texas facial recognition startup Blink Identity, saying in a note to shareholders that its technology will enable music fans to associate their digital ticket with their image and “then just walk into the show.”

    AEG, which operates the Coachella festival in southern California and other major events, updated its online privacy policy earlier this year with language stating that it may collect facial images at its events and venues for “access control,” creating aggregate data or for “personalization” — a term commonly used by retailers trying to tailor advertising or promotions to a specific customer’s behavior.

    Now, however, both organizations have done an about-face. AEG’s chief operating officer for festivals, Melissa Ormond, emailed activists earlier this month to say: “AEG festivals do not use facial recognition technology and do not have plans to implement.” AEG confirmed that statement this week but declined further comment.

    Live Nation said in a statement that “we do not currently have plans to deploy facial recognition technology at our clients’ venues.” The company insisted that any future use would be “strictly opt-in,” so that non-consenting fans won’t have to worry about potentially facing the music.

    Facial recognition isn’t seen in many musical venues. The biggest location known to employ it is New York City’s Madison Square Garden, which confirmed this week that facial recognition is one of the security measures it uses “to ensure the safety of everyone” in the arena. It declined to say what it looks at and why. The New York Times first reported its use last year.

    While the music industry paused, Major League Baseball stole a base by rolling out biometric ticketing in the US, usually involving fingerprints or iris scans to get into ballparks. Authorities in some parts of Europe have bounced around the idea of using either facial or voice recognition to keep tabs on unruly soccer fans, such as those participating in racist chants. Police agencies in China have used facial recognition at concerts featuring pop singer Jacky Cheung to identify and arrest people wanted as criminal suspects.

    American music event promoters this fall have been pressured to disclose their facial recognition plans by digital rights group Fight for the Future, which asked dozens of festival organizers to pledge not to use a technology it describes as invasive and racially biased.

    For some, it was an easy answer. Organizers of the Summer Meltdown Festival outside Seattle said they are “happily free of facial recognition technology.” Also confirming they don’t use it were hosts of events including South by Southwest, Lollapalooza, Bonnaroo, Governors Ball and the Voodoo Music and Arts Experience in New Orleans.

    Rage Against The Machine guitarist Tom Morello co-authored an opinion column in BuzzFeed last week that described the pledge as the “first major blow to the spread of commercial facial recognition in the United States.”

    The CEO of Blink Identity says opposition to its Ticketmaster partnership is misguided.

    “They’re talking about mass surveillance,” said Mary Haskett, who co-founded the Austin, Texas startup. “We’re against mass surveillance…. Nobody’s talking about doing what they’re protesting against.”

    Haskett said Blink’s system allows concertgoers to opt in by taking selfies with their phones, which the company transforms into mathematical representations and deletes. The system might offer access to a shorter line or a VIP section.

    But protesting musicians fear their fans’ mugshots could still end up in the hands of law enforcement or immigration authorities.

    “Of course it’s going to be used by security,” said Joey La Neve DeFrancesco, a guitarist for Rhode Island punk band Downtown Boys, which played Coachella in 2017. “Of course it’s going to be used by law enforcement.”

    Punk rockers aren’t the only ones fixing the technology with a death stare. A June survey by the Pew Research Center found that while people are generally accepting of facial recognition used by police, only 36 percent said they trust tech companies to deploy it responsibly. Just 18 percent trust advertisers.
  • Foriginal SinForiginal Sin Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 1,743
    edited October 2019
    There’s a lot going on here that I won’t read but do they discuss how you find your seat and if someone else claims it’s their seat? Most venues don’t allow you to walk into lower areas without a ticket, how would that all work out? 
    Chicago 6/29/98, Alpine Valley(EV) 6/13/99, Alpine Valley 10/08/00, Chicago 10/09/00, Phoenix 10/20/00, Orlando 4/12/03, Tampa 4/13/03, San Diego 6/05/03, Vegas 6/06/03, Phoenix 6/07/03, Chicago 6/18/03, Alpine Valley 6/21/03, Orlando 10/08/04, D.C. 10/11/04, Chicago 5/16/06, Chicago 5/17/06, LA 7/12/08, Chicago 8/23/09, Chicago 8/24/09, LA 10/07/09, San Diego 10/09/09 (Front Row Center, Finally), Phoenix(EV) 11/4/11, Wrigley 7/19/13, Phoenix 11/19/13, Denver 10/22/14, Wrigley 8/20/16, Wrigley 8/22/16
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 16,172
    There’s a lot going on here that I won’t read but do they discuss how you find your seat and if someone else claims it’s their seat? Most venues don’t allow you to walk into lower areas without a ticket, how would that all work out? 
    If the facial recognition software recognizes you in an area of the venue in which you don't belong, the chip in your arm secretes a lethal dose of Strychnine.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • PB11041PB11041 Earth Posts: 2,759
    A better answer to this fiasco is complete decentralization of a single dominant player in the business.  


    His eminence has yet to show. 
    http://www.hi5sports.org/ (Sports Program for Kids with Disabilities)
    http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=3652

  • Foriginal SinForiginal Sin Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 1,743
    Poncier said:
    There’s a lot going on here that I won’t read but do they discuss how you find your seat and if someone else claims it’s their seat? Most venues don’t allow you to walk into lower areas without a ticket, how would that all work out? 
    If the facial recognition software recognizes you in an area of the venue in which you don't belong, the chip in your arm secretes a lethal dose of Strychnine.
    Hahahahaha 
    Chicago 6/29/98, Alpine Valley(EV) 6/13/99, Alpine Valley 10/08/00, Chicago 10/09/00, Phoenix 10/20/00, Orlando 4/12/03, Tampa 4/13/03, San Diego 6/05/03, Vegas 6/06/03, Phoenix 6/07/03, Chicago 6/18/03, Alpine Valley 6/21/03, Orlando 10/08/04, D.C. 10/11/04, Chicago 5/16/06, Chicago 5/17/06, LA 7/12/08, Chicago 8/23/09, Chicago 8/24/09, LA 10/07/09, San Diego 10/09/09 (Front Row Center, Finally), Phoenix(EV) 11/4/11, Wrigley 7/19/13, Phoenix 11/19/13, Denver 10/22/14, Wrigley 8/20/16, Wrigley 8/22/16
  • ZodZod Posts: 9,945
    PB11041 said:
    A better answer to this fiasco is complete decentralization of a single dominant player in the business.  


    I think that would help a little, but not a lot.   It could help break up the reselling business where I think TM overstepped, and also could help the monopoly on venues.    It could help drive down service fees.  On the other hand it's not going to help scalping, premium tickets, vip tickets, or bots.    Most of things are things promoters utilize to increase revenue.  Bots would probably work better, because if there's no one entity selling the tickets, how much can they really afford to build their platform.   
  • PB11041PB11041 Earth Posts: 2,759
    Zod said:
    PB11041 said:
    A better answer to this fiasco is complete decentralization of a single dominant player in the business.  


    I think that would help a little, but not a lot.   It could help break up the reselling business where I think TM overstepped, and also could help the monopoly on venues.    It could help drive down service fees.  On the other hand it's not going to help scalping, premium tickets, vip tickets, or bots.    Most of things are things promoters utilize to increase revenue.  Bots would probably work better, because if there's no one entity selling the tickets, how much can they really afford to build their platform.   
    The more entities a promoter has to deal with, the more challenging it is to manage the process for setting up a reselling distribution chain.  Currently it takes minimal to no effort because virtually every ticket to every major venue goes through a single point of contact, TM/Live Nation.  
    His eminence has yet to show. 
    http://www.hi5sports.org/ (Sports Program for Kids with Disabilities)
    http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=3652

  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 7,958
    PB11041 said:
    A better answer to this fiasco is complete decentralization of a single dominant player in the business.  


    I get charged the same fees or worse by Ticketfly and AXS
  • PB11041PB11041 Earth Posts: 2,759
    edited November 2019
    pjl44 said:
    PB11041 said:
    A better answer to this fiasco is complete decentralization of a single dominant player in the business.  


    I get charged the same fees or worse by Ticketfly and AXS
    I am not talking about the fees, the fees while egregious are the least of the issue that this point.
    Post edited by PB11041 on
    His eminence has yet to show. 
    http://www.hi5sports.org/ (Sports Program for Kids with Disabilities)
    http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=3652

  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 7,958
    PB11041 said:
    pjl44 said:
    PB11041 said:
    A better answer to this fiasco is complete decentralization of a single dominant player in the business.  


    I get charged the same fees or worse by Ticketfly and AXS
    I am not talking about the fees, the fees while egregious are the least of the issue that his point.
    Meh
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,094
    PB11041 said:
    Zod said:
    PB11041 said:
    A better answer to this fiasco is complete decentralization of a single dominant player in the business.  


    I think that would help a little, but not a lot.   It could help break up the reselling business where I think TM overstepped, and also could help the monopoly on venues.    It could help drive down service fees.  On the other hand it's not going to help scalping, premium tickets, vip tickets, or bots.    Most of things are things promoters utilize to increase revenue.  Bots would probably work better, because if there's no one entity selling the tickets, how much can they really afford to build their platform.   
    The more entities a promoter has to deal with, the more challenging it is to manage the process for setting up a reselling distribution chain.  Currently it takes minimal to no effort because virtually every ticket to every major venue goes through a single point of contact, TM/Live Nation.  


    They should have a verified fan presale where any fan can join if verified. But tickets are not sold until the end of the presale.

    Fans type in the dollar amount they are willing to pay (subject to a minimum amount) and select from a number of location tiers they are willing to sit. This would work like a blind auction. With current tech this should be easy to accomplish.

    Ticket  distribution is fair, and an accurate market value is established before the general on sale. This way promoters would not need to block off tickets for brokers/scalpers. 
  • PB11041PB11041 Earth Posts: 2,759
    pjl44 said:
    PB11041 said:
    pjl44 said:
    PB11041 said:
    A better answer to this fiasco is complete decentralization of a single dominant player in the business.  


    I get charged the same fees or worse by Ticketfly and AXS
    I am not talking about the fees, the fees while egregious are the least of the issue that his point.
    Meh
    the "convenience" fees really do not mean shit if the tickets are being throttled by promoters.   
    His eminence has yet to show. 
    http://www.hi5sports.org/ (Sports Program for Kids with Disabilities)
    http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=3652

  • PB11041PB11041 Earth Posts: 2,759
    edited November 2019
    PB11041 said:
    Zod said:
    PB11041 said:
    A better answer to this fiasco is complete decentralization of a single dominant player in the business.  


    I think that would help a little, but not a lot.   It could help break up the reselling business where I think TM overstepped, and also could help the monopoly on venues.    It could help drive down service fees.  On the other hand it's not going to help scalping, premium tickets, vip tickets, or bots.    Most of things are things promoters utilize to increase revenue.  Bots would probably work better, because if there's no one entity selling the tickets, how much can they really afford to build their platform.   
    The more entities a promoter has to deal with, the more challenging it is to manage the process for setting up a reselling distribution chain.  Currently it takes minimal to no effort because virtually every ticket to every major venue goes through a single point of contact, TM/Live Nation.  


    They should have a verified fan presale where any fan can join if verified. But tickets are not sold until the end of the presale.

    Fans type in the dollar amount they are willing to pay (subject to a minimum amount) and select from a number of location tiers they are willing to sit. This would work like a blind auction. With current tech this should be easy to accomplish.

    Ticket  distribution is fair, and an accurate market value is established before the general on sale. This way promoters would not need to block off tickets for brokers/scalpers. 
    don't think there will be fair ever, there will always be something nefarious going on, but having a single entity controlling it is certainly not ideal.
    Post edited by PB11041 on
    His eminence has yet to show. 
    http://www.hi5sports.org/ (Sports Program for Kids with Disabilities)
    http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=3652

  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 7,958
    PB11041 said:
    pjl44 said:
    PB11041 said:
    pjl44 said:
    PB11041 said:
    A better answer to this fiasco is complete decentralization of a single dominant player in the business.  


    I get charged the same fees or worse by Ticketfly and AXS
    I am not talking about the fees, the fees while egregious are the least of the issue that his point.
    Meh
    the "convenience" fees really do not mean shit if the tickets are being throttled by promoters.   
    There's a thread in the Other Music forum where we've really been hacking this out. Jump in if you're interested. 

    One thing I'll say is that 95% of shows I go to now are theaters on down. This is far less of a problem if you're not going to big shows.
  • PB11041PB11041 Earth Posts: 2,759
    pjl44 said:
    PB11041 said:
    pjl44 said:
    PB11041 said:
    pjl44 said:
    PB11041 said:
    A better answer to this fiasco is complete decentralization of a single dominant player in the business.  


    I get charged the same fees or worse by Ticketfly and AXS
    I am not talking about the fees, the fees while egregious are the least of the issue that his point.
    Meh
    the "convenience" fees really do not mean shit if the tickets are being throttled by promoters.   
    There's a thread in the Other Music forum where we've really been hacking this out. Jump in if you're interested. 

    One thing I'll say is that 95% of shows I go to now are theaters on down. This is far less of a problem if you're not going to big shows.
    absolutely
    His eminence has yet to show. 
    http://www.hi5sports.org/ (Sports Program for Kids with Disabilities)
    http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=3652

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