Omnibus

unsung
unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
in A Moving Train
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Comments

  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,604
    edited March 2018
    The pox on both parties bit is less than credible coming from a Senator whose party controls both houses of Congress and the Oval Office.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,766
    JimmyV said:
    The pox on both parties bit is less than credible coming from a Senator whose party controls both houses of Congress and the Oval Office.
    good governance they said........

    still waiting.......
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  • Bentleyspop
    Bentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,517
    Remember when republicans wanted to shrink the deficit?
    Remember when republicans wanted more open trade and less tariffs?
    Remember  when  Russia was the enemy?
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,766
    2232 pages times 535 total members of both chambers of congress. what a waste of fucking paper.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,646
    unsung said:
    That's why Randy Paul has Senate staff, divide the reading up by subject, take notes and report back to your boss. Then vote with an informed decision or not vote, or vote no. Do your job Randy. Does anyone believe for a minute that any senator reads an entire bill?

    And republ;icans own it, not both parties. But nice swipe. What's his salary again? And how many days is he in session this year? And he's complaining about work?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,604
    #Randstanding
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,766
    JimmyV said:
    #Randstanding


    he isnt even up for re-election either

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,646
    8 staff members reading 9 pages an hour for 32 hours could pull together what was needed for Randy Paul to make an informed vote. If Randy joined the exercise and you eliminate the indexes, table of contents and the assorted fluff of "wheretos and how fors and thuses," you could probably bang it out in 24 hours, sparing 8 hours to refine his talking points about why he's for or against the bill. Its not like these guys have been busy all year. Get to work Randy and quit yer bitchin'. Oh, and maybe the time spent on photo ops with Russians could have been better spent, like with your colleagues learning what's in the bill.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,604
    Mitch McConnell will call for the vote in the Senate, Rand. That you have only "just hours to try to read" the bill before voting is a pox solely on your party.

    Own it.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    Another Unsung backfire lol 

    Maybe the GOP can blame Obama? Bwahahahaha
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,759
    edited March 2018
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,646
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,759
    edited March 2018
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    I don't care that he's Randstanding though - same old, same old, right? - and I don't think that's the real point. I think there is really a problem being highlighted here, and I don't think that being forced to vote no or abstain is a reasonable alternative to actually knowing wtf is being voted on, ever. This isn't a one-time thing here.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,784
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    I don't care that he's Randstanding though - same old, same old, right? - and I don't think that's the real point. I think there is really a problem being highlighted here, and I don't think that being forced to vote not or abstain is a reasonable alternative to actually knowing wtf is being voted on, ever. This isn't a one-time thing here.
    He had no problem voting for the tax reform bill though , it's his party that's doing all these shinnanigans he belongs to them why doesn't he call out turtle face McConnell or spineless Ryan and complain to them directly ? 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,646
    josevolution said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    I don't care that he's Randstanding though - same old, same old, right? - and I don't think that's the real point. I think there is really a problem being highlighted here, and I don't think that being forced to vote not or abstain is a reasonable alternative to actually knowing wtf is being voted on, ever. This isn't a one-time thing here.
    He had no problem voting for the tax reform bill though , it's his party that's doing all these shinnanigans he belongs to them why doesn't he call out turtle face McConnell or spineless Ryan and complain to them directly ? 
    Or, shut the gubmint down? He’s not up for re-election? The repube leadership needs to suffer the consequences of their ill governance. The fact remains, Randy’s leadership is pulling this stunt. And it’s only good through September. Omnibus spending bills used to fund full government fiscal years. The repubes are in control. They own it. I have no sympathy for Randy or his party.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,759
    edited March 2018
    josevolution said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    I don't care that he's Randstanding though - same old, same old, right? - and I don't think that's the real point. I think there is really a problem being highlighted here, and I don't think that being forced to vote not or abstain is a reasonable alternative to actually knowing wtf is being voted on, ever. This isn't a one-time thing here.
    He had no problem voting for the tax reform bill though , it's his party that's doing all these shinnanigans he belongs to them why doesn't he call out turtle face McConnell or spineless Ryan and complain to them directly ? 
    Forget about Rand. Ignore that it's him saying it completely. I'm talking about the actual thing that matters here, that he happens to be pointing out for whatever reason. What his actual feelings about it may be and/or his hypocrisy is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. He really IS highlighting a real problem in government that goes beyond party politics. This kind of thing happens all the time, and not just when his party is in charge. I.e. our politicians are woefully uninformed by design, and even those who care to be informed can't be. That is what everyone should care about. Not "Randstanding".
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,646
    PJ_Soul said:
    josevolution said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    I don't care that he's Randstanding though - same old, same old, right? - and I don't think that's the real point. I think there is really a problem being highlighted here, and I don't think that being forced to vote not or abstain is a reasonable alternative to actually knowing wtf is being voted on, ever. This isn't a one-time thing here.
    He had no problem voting for the tax reform bill though , it's his party that's doing all these shinnanigans he belongs to them why doesn't he call out turtle face McConnell or spineless Ryan and complain to them directly ? 
    Forget about Rand. Ignore that it's him saying it completely. I'm talking about the actual thing that matters here, that he happens to be pointing out for whatever reason. What his actual feelings about it may be and/or his hypocrisy is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. He really IS highlighting a real problem in government that goes beyond party politics. This kind of thing happens all the time, and not just when his party is in charge. I.e. our politicians are woefully uninformed by design, and even those who care to be informed can't be. That is what everyone should care about. Not "Randstanding".
    If he’s a competent senator, serving his constituents then he should have highly educated and motivated staff who actually do the work and know what’s in the bill. It basically boils down to limiting the debate, not giving special interests time to read it and ramp up lobbying and allowing the public time to see the details. Randy claiming he doesn’t have time to know what’s in the bill? Farcical. And if the voters gave a shit, they can vote the bums out. The old ways of the genial senate are long gone. Thank the tea party.
     
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,759
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    josevolution said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    I don't care that he's Randstanding though - same old, same old, right? - and I don't think that's the real point. I think there is really a problem being highlighted here, and I don't think that being forced to vote not or abstain is a reasonable alternative to actually knowing wtf is being voted on, ever. This isn't a one-time thing here.
    He had no problem voting for the tax reform bill though , it's his party that's doing all these shinnanigans he belongs to them why doesn't he call out turtle face McConnell or spineless Ryan and complain to them directly ? 
    Forget about Rand. Ignore that it's him saying it completely. I'm talking about the actual thing that matters here, that he happens to be pointing out for whatever reason. What his actual feelings about it may be and/or his hypocrisy is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. He really IS highlighting a real problem in government that goes beyond party politics. This kind of thing happens all the time, and not just when his party is in charge. I.e. our politicians are woefully uninformed by design, and even those who care to be informed can't be. That is what everyone should care about. Not "Randstanding".
    If he’s a competent senator, serving his constituents then he should have highly educated and motivated staff who actually do the work and know what’s in the bill. It basically boils down to limiting the debate, not giving special interests time to read it and ramp up lobbying and allowing the public time to see the details. Randy claiming he doesn’t have time to know what’s in the bill? Farcical. And if the voters gave a shit, they can vote the bums out. The old ways of the genial senate are long gone. Thank the tea party.
     
    I don't see how that matters. Even a highly educated and motivated staff couldn't do this adequately in the time given, plus NO bill should ever be that size, that's ridiculous. This is far from the first time I've seen this happen. But yeah, of course it's by design. That's the problem!
    Of course I wholeheartedly agree that the voters are ultimately responsible... What's to be done about that?? It's pretty hard to fix stupid.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,646
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    josevolution said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    I don't care that he's Randstanding though - same old, same old, right? - and I don't think that's the real point. I think there is really a problem being highlighted here, and I don't think that being forced to vote not or abstain is a reasonable alternative to actually knowing wtf is being voted on, ever. This isn't a one-time thing here.
    He had no problem voting for the tax reform bill though , it's his party that's doing all these shinnanigans he belongs to them why doesn't he call out turtle face McConnell or spineless Ryan and complain to them directly ? 
    Forget about Rand. Ignore that it's him saying it completely. I'm talking about the actual thing that matters here, that he happens to be pointing out for whatever reason. What his actual feelings about it may be and/or his hypocrisy is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. He really IS highlighting a real problem in government that goes beyond party politics. This kind of thing happens all the time, and not just when his party is in charge. I.e. our politicians are woefully uninformed by design, and even those who care to be informed can't be. That is what everyone should care about. Not "Randstanding".
    If he’s a competent senator, serving his constituents then he should have highly educated and motivated staff who actually do the work and know what’s in the bill. It basically boils down to limiting the debate, not giving special interests time to read it and ramp up lobbying and allowing the public time to see the details. Randy claiming he doesn’t have time to know what’s in the bill? Farcical. And if the voters gave a shit, they can vote the bums out. The old ways of the genial senate are long gone. Thank the tea party.
     
    I don't see how that matters. Even a highly educated and motivated staff couldn't do this adequately in the time given, plus NO bill should ever be that size, that's ridiculous. This is far from the first time I've seen this happen. But yeah, of course it's by design. That's the problem!
    Of course I wholeheartedly agree that the voters are ultimately responsible... What's to be done about that?? It's pretty hard to fix stupid.
    These bills are not drafted in secret. Randy’s staff probably helped draft certain sections or at least were involved with sections important to Kentucky, gutting OSHA budget for mine safety enforcement, maybe? The list goes on and on. I’m not sure you understand how Capitol Hill and the staff of those elected work. He’s randstanding and should bring himself to McConnell to express his outrage. Or, he should quit the repube party and become an independent. I’d have more respect for him. Now it’s just faux outrage. This is what, the 8 or 9th time since 2010 that the repubes have acted this way. Bottom line? The repubes in congress are incompetent at being the party in power.
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  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    my2hands said:
    Another Unsung backfire lol 

    Maybe the GOP can blame Obama? Bwahahahaha
    A backfire?

    You act as if I don't expect you all to act frenzied and triggered from seeing him.  This stuff doesn't surprise me at all.

    The problem you all see isn't a 2000 page spending bill, it is that he should pay ten staffers to go and read it instead of issuing a complaint.

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