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unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
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  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,171
    edited March 2018
    The pox on both parties bit is less than credible coming from a Senator whose party controls both houses of Congress and the Oval Office.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,586
    JimmyV said:
    The pox on both parties bit is less than credible coming from a Senator whose party controls both houses of Congress and the Oval Office.
    good governance they said........

    still waiting.......
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  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Posts: 10,764
    Remember when republicans wanted to shrink the deficit?
    Remember when republicans wanted more open trade and less tariffs?
    Remember  when  Russia was the enemy?
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,586
    2232 pages times 535 total members of both chambers of congress. what a waste of fucking paper.
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,020
    unsung said:
    That's why Randy Paul has Senate staff, divide the reading up by subject, take notes and report back to your boss. Then vote with an informed decision or not vote, or vote no. Do your job Randy. Does anyone believe for a minute that any senator reads an entire bill?

    And republ;icans own it, not both parties. But nice swipe. What's his salary again? And how many days is he in session this year? And he's complaining about work?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,171
    #Randstanding
    ___________________________________________

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,586
    JimmyV said:
    #Randstanding


    he isnt even up for re-election either

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,020
    8 staff members reading 9 pages an hour for 32 hours could pull together what was needed for Randy Paul to make an informed vote. If Randy joined the exercise and you eliminate the indexes, table of contents and the assorted fluff of "wheretos and how fors and thuses," you could probably bang it out in 24 hours, sparing 8 hours to refine his talking points about why he's for or against the bill. Its not like these guys have been busy all year. Get to work Randy and quit yer bitchin'. Oh, and maybe the time spent on photo ops with Russians could have been better spent, like with your colleagues learning what's in the bill.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,171
    Mitch McConnell will call for the vote in the Senate, Rand. That you have only "just hours to try to read" the bill before voting is a pox solely on your party.

    Own it.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    Another Unsung backfire lol 

    Maybe the GOP can blame Obama? Bwahahahaha
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    edited March 2018
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,020
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    edited March 2018
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    I don't care that he's Randstanding though - same old, same old, right? - and I don't think that's the real point. I think there is really a problem being highlighted here, and I don't think that being forced to vote no or abstain is a reasonable alternative to actually knowing wtf is being voted on, ever. This isn't a one-time thing here.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,532
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    I don't care that he's Randstanding though - same old, same old, right? - and I don't think that's the real point. I think there is really a problem being highlighted here, and I don't think that being forced to vote not or abstain is a reasonable alternative to actually knowing wtf is being voted on, ever. This isn't a one-time thing here.
    He had no problem voting for the tax reform bill though , it's his party that's doing all these shinnanigans he belongs to them why doesn't he call out turtle face McConnell or spineless Ryan and complain to them directly ? 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,020
    josevolution said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    I don't care that he's Randstanding though - same old, same old, right? - and I don't think that's the real point. I think there is really a problem being highlighted here, and I don't think that being forced to vote not or abstain is a reasonable alternative to actually knowing wtf is being voted on, ever. This isn't a one-time thing here.
    He had no problem voting for the tax reform bill though , it's his party that's doing all these shinnanigans he belongs to them why doesn't he call out turtle face McConnell or spineless Ryan and complain to them directly ? 
    Or, shut the gubmint down? He’s not up for re-election? The repube leadership needs to suffer the consequences of their ill governance. The fact remains, Randy’s leadership is pulling this stunt. And it’s only good through September. Omnibus spending bills used to fund full government fiscal years. The repubes are in control. They own it. I have no sympathy for Randy or his party.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    edited March 2018
    josevolution said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    I don't care that he's Randstanding though - same old, same old, right? - and I don't think that's the real point. I think there is really a problem being highlighted here, and I don't think that being forced to vote not or abstain is a reasonable alternative to actually knowing wtf is being voted on, ever. This isn't a one-time thing here.
    He had no problem voting for the tax reform bill though , it's his party that's doing all these shinnanigans he belongs to them why doesn't he call out turtle face McConnell or spineless Ryan and complain to them directly ? 
    Forget about Rand. Ignore that it's him saying it completely. I'm talking about the actual thing that matters here, that he happens to be pointing out for whatever reason. What his actual feelings about it may be and/or his hypocrisy is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. He really IS highlighting a real problem in government that goes beyond party politics. This kind of thing happens all the time, and not just when his party is in charge. I.e. our politicians are woefully uninformed by design, and even those who care to be informed can't be. That is what everyone should care about. Not "Randstanding".
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,020
    PJ_Soul said:
    josevolution said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    I don't care that he's Randstanding though - same old, same old, right? - and I don't think that's the real point. I think there is really a problem being highlighted here, and I don't think that being forced to vote not or abstain is a reasonable alternative to actually knowing wtf is being voted on, ever. This isn't a one-time thing here.
    He had no problem voting for the tax reform bill though , it's his party that's doing all these shinnanigans he belongs to them why doesn't he call out turtle face McConnell or spineless Ryan and complain to them directly ? 
    Forget about Rand. Ignore that it's him saying it completely. I'm talking about the actual thing that matters here, that he happens to be pointing out for whatever reason. What his actual feelings about it may be and/or his hypocrisy is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. He really IS highlighting a real problem in government that goes beyond party politics. This kind of thing happens all the time, and not just when his party is in charge. I.e. our politicians are woefully uninformed by design, and even those who care to be informed can't be. That is what everyone should care about. Not "Randstanding".
    If he’s a competent senator, serving his constituents then he should have highly educated and motivated staff who actually do the work and know what’s in the bill. It basically boils down to limiting the debate, not giving special interests time to read it and ramp up lobbying and allowing the public time to see the details. Randy claiming he doesn’t have time to know what’s in the bill? Farcical. And if the voters gave a shit, they can vote the bums out. The old ways of the genial senate are long gone. Thank the tea party.
     
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    josevolution said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    I don't care that he's Randstanding though - same old, same old, right? - and I don't think that's the real point. I think there is really a problem being highlighted here, and I don't think that being forced to vote not or abstain is a reasonable alternative to actually knowing wtf is being voted on, ever. This isn't a one-time thing here.
    He had no problem voting for the tax reform bill though , it's his party that's doing all these shinnanigans he belongs to them why doesn't he call out turtle face McConnell or spineless Ryan and complain to them directly ? 
    Forget about Rand. Ignore that it's him saying it completely. I'm talking about the actual thing that matters here, that he happens to be pointing out for whatever reason. What his actual feelings about it may be and/or his hypocrisy is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. He really IS highlighting a real problem in government that goes beyond party politics. This kind of thing happens all the time, and not just when his party is in charge. I.e. our politicians are woefully uninformed by design, and even those who care to be informed can't be. That is what everyone should care about. Not "Randstanding".
    If he’s a competent senator, serving his constituents then he should have highly educated and motivated staff who actually do the work and know what’s in the bill. It basically boils down to limiting the debate, not giving special interests time to read it and ramp up lobbying and allowing the public time to see the details. Randy claiming he doesn’t have time to know what’s in the bill? Farcical. And if the voters gave a shit, they can vote the bums out. The old ways of the genial senate are long gone. Thank the tea party.
     
    I don't see how that matters. Even a highly educated and motivated staff couldn't do this adequately in the time given, plus NO bill should ever be that size, that's ridiculous. This is far from the first time I've seen this happen. But yeah, of course it's by design. That's the problem!
    Of course I wholeheartedly agree that the voters are ultimately responsible... What's to be done about that?? It's pretty hard to fix stupid.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,020
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    josevolution said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    I don't care that he's Randstanding though - same old, same old, right? - and I don't think that's the real point. I think there is really a problem being highlighted here, and I don't think that being forced to vote not or abstain is a reasonable alternative to actually knowing wtf is being voted on, ever. This isn't a one-time thing here.
    He had no problem voting for the tax reform bill though , it's his party that's doing all these shinnanigans he belongs to them why doesn't he call out turtle face McConnell or spineless Ryan and complain to them directly ? 
    Forget about Rand. Ignore that it's him saying it completely. I'm talking about the actual thing that matters here, that he happens to be pointing out for whatever reason. What his actual feelings about it may be and/or his hypocrisy is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. He really IS highlighting a real problem in government that goes beyond party politics. This kind of thing happens all the time, and not just when his party is in charge. I.e. our politicians are woefully uninformed by design, and even those who care to be informed can't be. That is what everyone should care about. Not "Randstanding".
    If he’s a competent senator, serving his constituents then he should have highly educated and motivated staff who actually do the work and know what’s in the bill. It basically boils down to limiting the debate, not giving special interests time to read it and ramp up lobbying and allowing the public time to see the details. Randy claiming he doesn’t have time to know what’s in the bill? Farcical. And if the voters gave a shit, they can vote the bums out. The old ways of the genial senate are long gone. Thank the tea party.
     
    I don't see how that matters. Even a highly educated and motivated staff couldn't do this adequately in the time given, plus NO bill should ever be that size, that's ridiculous. This is far from the first time I've seen this happen. But yeah, of course it's by design. That's the problem!
    Of course I wholeheartedly agree that the voters are ultimately responsible... What's to be done about that?? It's pretty hard to fix stupid.
    These bills are not drafted in secret. Randy’s staff probably helped draft certain sections or at least were involved with sections important to Kentucky, gutting OSHA budget for mine safety enforcement, maybe? The list goes on and on. I’m not sure you understand how Capitol Hill and the staff of those elected work. He’s randstanding and should bring himself to McConnell to express his outrage. Or, he should quit the repube party and become an independent. I’d have more respect for him. Now it’s just faux outrage. This is what, the 8 or 9th time since 2010 that the repubes have acted this way. Bottom line? The repubes in congress are incompetent at being the party in power.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    my2hands said:
    Another Unsung backfire lol 

    Maybe the GOP can blame Obama? Bwahahahaha
    A backfire?

    You act as if I don't expect you all to act frenzied and triggered from seeing him.  This stuff doesn't surprise me at all.

    The problem you all see isn't a 2000 page spending bill, it is that he should pay ten staffers to go and read it instead of issuing a complaint.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    josevolution said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    I don't care that he's Randstanding though - same old, same old, right? - and I don't think that's the real point. I think there is really a problem being highlighted here, and I don't think that being forced to vote not or abstain is a reasonable alternative to actually knowing wtf is being voted on, ever. This isn't a one-time thing here.
    He had no problem voting for the tax reform bill though , it's his party that's doing all these shinnanigans he belongs to them why doesn't he call out turtle face McConnell or spineless Ryan and complain to them directly ? 
    Forget about Rand. Ignore that it's him saying it completely. I'm talking about the actual thing that matters here, that he happens to be pointing out for whatever reason. What his actual feelings about it may be and/or his hypocrisy is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. He really IS highlighting a real problem in government that goes beyond party politics. This kind of thing happens all the time, and not just when his party is in charge. I.e. our politicians are woefully uninformed by design, and even those who care to be informed can't be. That is what everyone should care about. Not "Randstanding".
    If he’s a competent senator, serving his constituents then he should have highly educated and motivated staff who actually do the work and know what’s in the bill. It basically boils down to limiting the debate, not giving special interests time to read it and ramp up lobbying and allowing the public time to see the details. Randy claiming he doesn’t have time to know what’s in the bill? Farcical. And if the voters gave a shit, they can vote the bums out. The old ways of the genial senate are long gone. Thank the tea party.
     
    I don't see how that matters. Even a highly educated and motivated staff couldn't do this adequately in the time given, plus NO bill should ever be that size, that's ridiculous. This is far from the first time I've seen this happen. But yeah, of course it's by design. That's the problem!
    Of course I wholeheartedly agree that the voters are ultimately responsible... What's to be done about that?? It's pretty hard to fix stupid.
    These bills are not drafted in secret. Randy’s staff probably helped draft certain sections or at least were involved with sections important to Kentucky, gutting OSHA budget for mine safety enforcement, maybe? The list goes on and on. I’m not sure you understand how Capitol Hill and the staff of those elected work. He’s randstanding and should bring himself to McConnell to express his outrage. Or, he should quit the repube party and become an independent. I’d have more respect for him. Now it’s just faux outrage. This is what, the 8 or 9th time since 2010 that the repubes have acted this way. Bottom line? The repubes in congress are incompetent at being the party in power.
    Again... I'm not talking about Rand Paul. At all. And of course the bills aren't drafted in secret - I'm not sure why you said that TBH. Yes, I do understand how Capitol Hill and the staff work. I'm simply saying that I don't give a flying fuck about him Randstanding or his faux outrage. I don't believe a fucking word that comes out of that guy's mouth, lol. All I am saying is that he brings up a bigger good point (not on purpose!), that I think everyone should be much more concerned about than Rand's bullshit and stupid Twitter posts. I'm not even talking about a problem that is limited to any particular party. I'm talking about a systemic issue that reaches all parties on the Federal and State levels. I'm just talking about politicians and their ability to be well-informed in current government.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    josevolution said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So.... everyone really thinks that it completely reasonable for anyone in government who needs to vote for something to be given a 2000+ page anything and be expected to make an informed decision with only a day or two to go over it? I don't think that's acceptable at all, actually, even if they do have 8 staffers to go over it for 24-38 hours straight and hopefully pass on all the relevant info to the Congressman or Senator who needs to know about it in a way that really informs him or her. No, that is not reasonable in any way, and everyone should be extremely concerned that this is how their politicians are expected to be informed when they make decisions that impact the citizens. Is everyone responding the way they are just because it's Rand Paul and Unsung? IMO, Rand Paul has a completely legit complaint here. Even just the fact that any document is that huge points out a serious problem.

    But yeah, his "a pox on both parties" line is fucking ridiculous.
    He’s Randstanding. They negotiate in committee and the house passed their bill, which will be similar to what they have on the table. It’s not insurmountable and if it is, he can vote no.
    I don't care that he's Randstanding though - same old, same old, right? - and I don't think that's the real point. I think there is really a problem being highlighted here, and I don't think that being forced to vote not or abstain is a reasonable alternative to actually knowing wtf is being voted on, ever. This isn't a one-time thing here.
    He had no problem voting for the tax reform bill though , it's his party that's doing all these shinnanigans he belongs to them why doesn't he call out turtle face McConnell or spineless Ryan and complain to them directly ? 
    Forget about Rand. Ignore that it's him saying it completely. I'm talking about the actual thing that matters here, that he happens to be pointing out for whatever reason. What his actual feelings about it may be and/or his hypocrisy is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. He really IS highlighting a real problem in government that goes beyond party politics. This kind of thing happens all the time, and not just when his party is in charge. I.e. our politicians are woefully uninformed by design, and even those who care to be informed can't be. That is what everyone should care about. Not "Randstanding".
    If he’s a competent senator, serving his constituents then he should have highly educated and motivated staff who actually do the work and know what’s in the bill. It basically boils down to limiting the debate, not giving special interests time to read it and ramp up lobbying and allowing the public time to see the details. Randy claiming he doesn’t have time to know what’s in the bill? Farcical. And if the voters gave a shit, they can vote the bums out. The old ways of the genial senate are long gone. Thank the tea party.
     
    I don't see how that matters. Even a highly educated and motivated staff couldn't do this adequately in the time given, plus NO bill should ever be that size, that's ridiculous. This is far from the first time I've seen this happen. But yeah, of course it's by design. That's the problem!
    Of course I wholeheartedly agree that the voters are ultimately responsible... What's to be done about that?? It's pretty hard to fix stupid.
    Well, not everyone gets frenzied at the wrong message, someone else gets it.  Nice.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,020
    unsung said:
    my2hands said:
    Another Unsung backfire lol 

    Maybe the GOP can blame Obama? Bwahahahaha
    A backfire?

    You act as if I don't expect you all to act frenzied and triggered from seeing him.  This stuff doesn't surprise me at all.

    The problem you all see isn't a 2000 page spending bill, it is that he should pay ten staffers to go and read it instead of issuing a complaint.
    How many pages should the federal spending bill be? Have you read it? Have you read any part of it? You could you know but gee, that’d be too much work. I could call my senators and ask them to vote against it, for it or abstain from voting. What are you going to do Unsung? Participate in democracy or just bitch about it?
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  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    The US is not a democracy.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    unsung said:
    The US is not a democracy.
    Not a direct one, no.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Democracy is mob rule and uncivilized. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,020
    unsung said:
    The US is not a democracy.
    Are you going to exercise your first amendment right to freedom of speech and to a redress of grievances? Or just bitch and moan? Stop being a victim.
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  • NewJPageNewJPage Posts: 3,310
    Remember when he did the same tweet about the tax bill? No? Oh, right, Rand doesn't actually care about this issue, and neither does OP
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  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,029
    Sounds like the quintessential "put all your eggs in one basket".  Must be an Easter Bill, right?
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,020
    unsung said:
    Democracy is mob rule and uncivilized. 
    Ha, ha, ha, fucking ha!
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