Sexual Misconduct in Politics

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  • wndowpayne
    wndowpayne Posts: 1,469
    Started a pool at work as to who will be named next..I went with Al Roker
    Charlottesville 2013
    Hampton 2016

  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,754
    edited November 2017
    Go Beavers said:
    I’m not sure what you mean by “amazing”. Everything considered harassment seems pretty common sense avoid doing in a work setting. 
    Didn't he mean that it is amazing what is included but he thinks shouldn't be? I would also argue that not everything that some might decide to call harassment is common sense at all, taking into consideration that it involves walking, talking human beings with personalities and emotions.
    For instance, I read some article the other day (can't remember source) that surveyed people in the UK, and some of the women actually considered a male peer at work simply asking them to go for a drink after hours to be sexual harassment. Sometimes this shit can get out of hand in both directions.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,615
    PJ_Soul said:
    Go Beavers said:
    I’m not sure what you mean by “amazing”. Everything considered harassment seems pretty common sense avoid doing in a work setting. 
    Didn't he mean that it is amazing what is included but he thinks shouldn't be? I would also argue that not everything that some might decide to call harassment is common sense at all, taking into consideration that it involves walking, talking human beings with personalities and emotions.
    For instance, I read some article the other day (can't remember source) that surveyed people in the UK, and some of the women actually considered a male peer at work simply asking them to go for a drink after hours to be sexual harassment. Sometimes this shit can get out of hand in both directions.
    I guess for me personally it seems like common sense. You have the HR definition, and you have the general public definition. These obviously don’t align all the time. Asking a co-worker for a drink/date isn’t harassment in that isolated situation. It could be a component of harassment depending on the work relationship and what’s happened before and after. It’s certainly no easy task to sort through in a lot of situations. 
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,754
    edited November 2017
    Go Beavers said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Go Beavers said:
    I’m not sure what you mean by “amazing”. Everything considered harassment seems pretty common sense avoid doing in a work setting. 
    Didn't he mean that it is amazing what is included but he thinks shouldn't be? I would also argue that not everything that some might decide to call harassment is common sense at all, taking into consideration that it involves walking, talking human beings with personalities and emotions.
    For instance, I read some article the other day (can't remember source) that surveyed people in the UK, and some of the women actually considered a male peer at work simply asking them to go for a drink after hours to be sexual harassment. Sometimes this shit can get out of hand in both directions.
    I guess for me personally it seems like common sense. You have the HR definition, and you have the general public definition. These obviously don’t align all the time. Asking a co-worker for a drink/date isn’t harassment in that isolated situation. It could be a component of harassment depending on the work relationship and what’s happened before and after. It’s certainly no easy task to sort through in a lot of situations. 
    Well right, that's kind of the point. There are real grey areas that really are not covered by common sense. With only a few exceptions it is impossible to draw solid lines here. As you say, a lot of things depend on the specific relationships between the people, the dynamics of the office and its hierarchy, personal/work/relationship histories, tone, etc etc etc. That's why it is so problematic that the mob rules this issue right now - it leaves the door way too open for false accusations and/or faulty interpretations of behaviour on the part of the accuser. Yes, you would think that common sense would rule.... but unfortunately it doesn't in a lot of cases, and that's the problem!
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,579
    Go Beavers said:
    I’m not sure what you mean by “amazing”. Everything considered harassment seems pretty common sense avoid doing in a work setting. 
    Actually no, it's not.

    If you are overheard having a conversation you can be accused of harassment.  

    PJ souls avatar can be viewed as offensive... 

    We may be entering a world of where you have to be sterile in an open environment.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,754
    edited November 2017
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Go Beavers said:
    I’m not sure what you mean by “amazing”. Everything considered harassment seems pretty common sense avoid doing in a work setting. 
    Actually no, it's not.

    If you are overheard having a conversation you can be accused of harassment.  

    PJ souls avatar can be viewed as offensive... 

    We may be entering a world of where you have to be sterile in an open environment.
    Yeah, and we can't allow things to move in that direction, where people have to turn off their personalities, avoid friendships, censor themselves constantly out of fear. That sounds like a horrible, Orwellian nightmare to me. We can't just bow to the pressure put on us by fucking idiots who operate on a constant moral trip wire. We still have to keep in mind that someone being offended does not necessarily mean we need to be sensitive to their reaction. Sometimes they just need to fucking be offended while nobody else gives a shit that they are, because they're idiots.
    But seriously, what could possibly be offensive about "duck"?? =):lol:
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    As more details come out about Matt Lauer, it seems to me there needs to be a widespread housecleaning of upper management at NBC.  
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,615
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Go Beavers said:
    I’m not sure what you mean by “amazing”. Everything considered harassment seems pretty common sense avoid doing in a work setting. 
    Actually no, it's not.

    If you are overheard having a conversation you can be accused of harassment.  

    PJ souls avatar can be viewed as offensive... 

    We may be entering a world of where you have to be sterile in an open environment.
    You can be accused, but that doesn’t mean it is. I guess that’s where I’m going with this. That’s why ‘ongoing’ is part of the definition. If a behavior is deemed inappropriate and the person doing it is dealt with, but then continues it, then you can have harassment. The thing with politics, there is no boss, there isn’t really a firing process, and there isn’t really a clear disciplinary process. 

    What I mean by common sense is that if you’re at work and doing something where you can read that others are uncomfortable with it, then it’s probably a good idea to stop doing it. I adjust my behavior all the time based on the setting and it’s not hard for me to do. 
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,754
    edited November 2017
    Yeah, that's the problem - right now, it doesn't seem like anyone cares about the viability of the accusations. People are getting fired, shows are getting pulled, and contracts are apparently being torn up just at the first hint of an accusation at this point. When the guy is actually scum then that's great, but what about when he's not?? I feel like good guys are at risk right now. I really am glad this problem in our society is being highlighted - really glad, even though I feel a little galled and bitter about the fact that we've all been saying this is going on for centuries and nobody fucking cared at all until Weinstein was shown to be a pervert and suddenly everyone decided to be a sexual misconduct warrior, almost like caring about the fact that women all over are being harassed and abused in every walk of life is just a fad. It's like the anti-sexual misconduct version of fidget spinners or Pokemon Go.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,603
    Thread title should be changed to “in society.” Where are the pastors?

    http://www.cnn.com/specials/live-video-2
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  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Thread title should be changed to “in society.” Where are the pastors?

    http://www.cnn.com/specials/live-video-2
    Not good for pastors but at least the weirdos have been hit in the last ten year for allegations.  Politics and entertainment been running free.

    Old School Hollywood 

    Washed up Hollywood 
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,263
    edited November 2017

    Post edited by bootlegger10 on
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,263
    edited November 2017
    PJ_Soul said:
    Yeah, that's the problem - right now, it doesn't seem like anyone cares about the viability of the accusations. People are getting fired, shows are getting pulled, and contracts are apparently being torn up just at the first hint of an accusation at this point. When the guy is actually scum then that's great, but what about when he's not?? I feel like good guys are at risk right now. I really am glad this problem in our society is being highlighted - really glad, even though I feel a little galled and bitter about the fact that we've all been saying this is going on for centuries and nobody fucking cared at all until Weinstein was shown to be a pervert and suddenly everyone decided to be a sexual misconduct warrior, almost like caring about the fact that women all over are being harassed and abused in every walk of life is just a fad. It's like the anti-sexual misconduct version of fidget spinners or Pokemon Go.

    I think with these terminations being very quick that management were likely well aware of allegations in the past, or the accusations are very creditable.  Also, the responses from the accused pretty much tell the story that they are right to be fired (i.e., "I don't recall but apologize").   If people are wrongly terminated there are probably big lawsuits with that too.

    Hopefully false accusations do not bring people down, but it seems like so far they've all been well deserved. 

    Post edited by bootlegger10 on
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Stress related illness! The poster-boy for term limits is hospitalized.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/30/politics/john-conyers-hospitalized/index.html
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Isnt it about time to re-purpose those pink hats?




  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,754
    edited November 2017
    bootlegger10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Yeah, that's the problem - right now, it doesn't seem like anyone cares about the viability of the accusations. People are getting fired, shows are getting pulled, and contracts are apparently being torn up just at the first hint of an accusation at this point. When the guy is actually scum then that's great, but what about when he's not?? I feel like good guys are at risk right now. I really am glad this problem in our society is being highlighted - really glad, even though I feel a little galled and bitter about the fact that we've all been saying this is going on for centuries and nobody fucking cared at all until Weinstein was shown to be a pervert and suddenly everyone decided to be a sexual misconduct warrior, almost like caring about the fact that women all over are being harassed and abused in every walk of life is just a fad. It's like the anti-sexual misconduct version of fidget spinners or Pokemon Go.

    I think with these terminations being very quick that management were likely well aware of allegations in the past, or the accusations are very creditable.  Also, the responses from the accused pretty much tell the story that they are right to be fired (i.e., "I don't recall but apologize").   If people are wrongly terminated there are probably big lawsuits with that too.

    Hopefully false accusations do not bring people down, but it seems like so far they've all been well deserved. 

    As I said, that's fine when the allegations are true. But I still feel like good guys are now at risk because of this trend, and I'm not just talking about famous people. The other fucked up part about all this is that only allegations laid against famous people are being looked at, when the fact is that the vast majority of sexual assaults and sexual harassment happen to regular people. These are just things that I think everyone needs to keep in mind as this issue is finally confronted (for now.... again, I think the potential for all this to fizzle out and for things to return to "business as usual" is pretty high. We'll see.).
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    "Conyers must go" (likely: multiple sealed harassment deals)
    "Franken should stay!" (likely: serial groper)

    Lauer likes pinching Curics ass and watching Vieira bend over so he can perv the down blouse.
    Where is Nancy O'dell?
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,615
    JC29856 said:
    Isnt it about time to re-purpose those pink hats?




    Links don’t show for me. What isit?
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Go Beavers said:
    JC29856 said:
    Isnt it about time to re-purpose those pink hats?




    Links don’t show for me. What isit?
    Just my favorite progressive co-sponsoring "unseal the deals" legislation.
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    Billy Bush: Yes, Donald Trump, You said that


    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/03/opinion/billy-bush-trump-access-hollywood-tape.html
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