what is up with all these hollywood pedos?

HughFreakingDillon said:

dignin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

dignin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

And what if the guy made it up or totally exaggerated the experience in him own mind over the years? I take it everyone here requires absolutely no proof, or even a demonstration of a pattern of behaviour now? I feel like everyone has just said screw it, let's join the mob. Where's the fucking pitch fork? As with ALL cases like this, I require more than one accusation of something that happened a lifetime ago. Show me that pattern of behaviour, show me more accusers, and I'm on board. Without at least that, nope, I'm not joining the mob. I have known good people who have been taken down by one false or exaggerated allegation. It happens. I have also known people who reformed their memories to make it much worse than reality. I have minimal standards. I don't think that is unreasonable.

was it no big deal when someone grabbed your p**** at that festival you mentioned some time ago? the guy was drunk. it was a mistake. it was a one-off. does that excuse it?

No need to make this personal, that's out of line.

no it's not. she mentioned this a long time ago in the context of trump in a public forum (which makes it fair game). she was disgusted by it. I'm wondering why the inconsistency in position. 

If a person wants to bring up their personal history in this context that is their business, not yours.

A possibly traumatic event shouldn't be used against them, that's low from my point of view.

oh please. she's brushing this off as "no big deal" unless it's a pattern. my question is relevant given past statements on a public forum. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spacey: 26
Rapp: 14

in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spacey: 26
Rapp: 14

in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?

I think it is. My view is I just need more than the word of a 14 year old 30 years later to place that sort of a label on a man. And I'm not a big Spacey fan.
Rapp could be exaggerating what happened, or making it up, or was on drugs and has no idea about the night. Maybe he lied about his age to get invited to the party. Or he could be telling the truth and Spacey is a major creepo. I Just have no idea. And I dont think a single interview lacking all sort of information and anyone else who was there is going to convince me.
I just read Rapp's interview for the first time and I am even less convinced now than before. Rapp doesn;t say he wasn't drinking, went to a club and says "I don't know how— We got in through the front door," Rapp continued. "We didn't have to show ID." To me that implies this is at least an 18 and over club if he doesn't know how he got in without ID.
I'm just saying isn't it possible there's more to this story than Spacey tried to jump on a 14 year old? Maybe there isn't, but then again there might be.

I think I'm somewhere in the middle of PJ and you. I don't think the fact it was 1984 changes much if in fact he was trying to score with a 14 year old. But I think this should be looked at more before publicly crucifying someone on this.

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spacey: 26
Rapp: 14

in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?

I just can't figure out why you're talking about rape at all.
Also, in 1984, weren't there states where the age of consent was 14 or even lower? Anyway, making advances on a 14 year old once at a drunken party does not a pedophile make.

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spacey: 26
Rapp: 14

in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?

I just can't figure out why you're talking about rape at all.
Also, in 1984, weren't there states where the age of consent was 14 or even lower? Anyway, making advances on a 14 year old once at a drunken party does not a pedophile make.

I just can't figure out why you think, even if Rapp is stating the truth, that this is no big deal.

you are saying this is no big deal if Spacey made sexual advances on a 14 year old when he was 26 if it was "a one off mistake". by extension, are you saying that if Rapp had consented it would also be no big deal? even when a 14 year old can legally consent to having sexual relations with another, isn't there also some definitions on age difference?

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spacey: 26
Rapp: 14

in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?

I just can't figure out why you're talking about rape at all.
Also, in 1984, weren't there states where the age of consent was 14 or even lower? Anyway, making advances on a 14 year old once at a drunken party does not a pedophile make.

I just can't figure out why you think, even if Rapp is stating the truth, that this is no big deal.

you are saying this is no big deal if Spacey made sexual advances on a 14 year old when he was 26 if it was "a one off mistake". by extension, are you saying that if Rapp had consented it would also be no big deal? even when a 14 year old can legally consent to having sexual relations with another, isn't there also some definitions on age difference?

I said very clearly that it's not cool and that I don't approve of the behaviour. I only think it's "no big deal" in relation to the reaction and the consequences. I think it is a huge overreaction even IF it happened the way this guy said it did, which is completely up for debate in any case. I simply do not think that this one supposed incident that happened decades ago is a good reason for a person's life to be ruined. IF this isn't a continuing patter for Spacey, I don't think what he did all those years ago, in that context, deserves the consequences he is experiencing. I would imagine that the man he is today has basically no relation to the man he was all those years ago in that brief moment in time.

how can you possibly make that assumption that he is no longer the same person he was, but in the same breath tell the rest of us that we have no idea what was going in his or Rapp's mind at the time?

his show has been put on hold for the time being. he has hardly faced any consequences at all. and he may not have faced any consequences if he didn't just brush it off as a non-incident in his statement. that was a huge part of this whole issue. 

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spacey: 26
Rapp: 14

in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?

I just can't figure out why you're talking about rape at all.
Also, in 1984, weren't there states where the age of consent was 14 or even lower? Anyway, making advances on a 14 year old once at a drunken party does not a pedophile make.

I just can't figure out why you think, even if Rapp is stating the truth, that this is no big deal.

you are saying this is no big deal if Spacey made sexual advances on a 14 year old when he was 26 if it was "a one off mistake". by extension, are you saying that if Rapp had consented it would also be no big deal? even when a 14 year old can legally consent to having sexual relations with another, isn't there also some definitions on age difference?

I said very clearly that it's not cool and that I don't approve of the behaviour. I only think it's "no big deal" in relation to the reaction and the consequences. I think it is a huge overreaction even IF it happened the way this guy said it did, which is completely up for debate in any case. I simply do not think that this one supposed incident that happened decades ago is a good reason for a person's life to be ruined. IF this isn't a continuing patter for Spacey, I don't think what he did all those years ago, in that context, deserves the consequences he is experiencing. I would imagine that the man he is today has basically no relation to the man he was all those years ago in that brief moment in time.

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spacey: 26
Rapp: 14

in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?

I just can't figure out why you're talking about rape at all.
Also, in 1984, weren't there states where the age of consent was 14 or even lower? Anyway, making advances on a 14 year old once at a drunken party does not a pedophile make.

I just can't figure out why you think, even if Rapp is stating the truth, that this is no big deal.

you are saying this is no big deal if Spacey made sexual advances on a 14 year old when he was 26 if it was "a one off mistake". by extension, are you saying that if Rapp had consented it would also be no big deal? even when a 14 year old can legally consent to having sexual relations with another, isn't there also some definitions on age difference?

I said very clearly that it's not cool and that I don't approve of the behaviour. I only think it's "no big deal" in relation to the reaction and the consequences. I think it is a huge overreaction even IF it happened the way this guy said it did, which is completely up for debate in any case. I simply do not think that this one supposed incident that happened decades ago is a good reason for a person's life to be ruined. IF this isn't a continuing patter for Spacey, I don't think what he did all those years ago, in that context, deserves the consequences he is experiencing. I would imagine that the man he is today has basically no relation to the man he was all those years ago in that brief moment in time.

how can you possibly make that assumption that he is no longer the same person he was, but in the same breath tell the rest of us that we have no idea what was going in his or Rapp's mind at the time?

his show has been put on hold for the time being. he has hardly faced any consequences at all. and he may not have faced any consequences if he didn't just brush it off as a non-incident in his statement. that was a huge part of this whole issue. 

I'm not making the assumption. That is why I said IF in capital letters. I have no idea how you make the connection between Spacey perhaps not being the same person and what might have been in Rapp's head at the time. I also have no idea what was going on with either of their heads at the time. That's the point.
He is already and will face MASSIVE consequences man. His entire career is totally fucked, in the blink of an eye. And I already said many times that that facebook post was totally fucked up.

And yeah, if Rapp had consented and was totally fine with it, I would also think, at this point in time all these years later, that it isn't that big a deal. That doesn't mean a condone it. I am still just comparing it to the consequences 30+ years later. I don't think it would be fair for someone to suffer this if it was a drunken one-off that happened in a different life. Is there seriously no room in your mind for the idea that a man can change in all that time? That a man just did something shitty once that he shouldn't have done, but isn't a threat, isn't a bad person? That who he is today isn't who he was then in that long ago moment?

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spacey: 26
Rapp: 14

in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?

I just can't figure out why you're talking about rape at all.
Also, in 1984, weren't there states where the age of consent was 14 or even lower? Anyway, making advances on a 14 year old once at a drunken party does not a pedophile make.

I just can't figure out why you think, even if Rapp is stating the truth, that this is no big deal.

you are saying this is no big deal if Spacey made sexual advances on a 14 year old when he was 26 if it was "a one off mistake". by extension, are you saying that if Rapp had consented it would also be no big deal? even when a 14 year old can legally consent to having sexual relations with another, isn't there also some definitions on age difference?

I said very clearly that it's not cool and that I don't approve of the behaviour. I only think it's "no big deal" in relation to the reaction and the consequences. I think it is a huge overreaction even IF it happened the way this guy said it did, which is completely up for debate in any case. I simply do not think that this one supposed incident that happened decades ago is a good reason for a person's life to be ruined. IF this isn't a continuing patter for Spacey, I don't think what he did all those years ago, in that context, deserves the consequences he is experiencing. I would imagine that the man he is today has basically no relation to the man he was all those years ago in that brief moment in time.

how can you possibly make that assumption that he is no longer the same person he was, but in the same breath tell the rest of us that we have no idea what was going in his or Rapp's mind at the time?

his show has been put on hold for the time being. he has hardly faced any consequences at all. and he may not have faced any consequences if he didn't just brush it off as a non-incident in his statement. that was a huge part of this whole issue. 

I'm not making the assumption. That is why I said IF in capital letters. I have no idea how you make the connection between Spacey perhaps not being the same person and what might have been in Rapp's head at the time. I also have no idea what was going on with either of their heads at the time. That's the point.
He is already and will face MASSIVE consequences man. His entire career is totally fucked, in the blink of an eye. And I already said many times that that facebook post was totally fucked up.

And yeah, if Rapp had consented and was totally fine with it, I would also think, at this point in time all these years later, that it isn't that big a deal. That doesn't mean a condone it. I am still just comparing it to the consequences 30+ years later. I don't think it would be fair for someone to suffer this if it was a drunken one-off that happened in a different life. Is there seriously no room in your mind for the idea that a man can change in all that time? That a man just did something shitty once that he shouldn't have done, but isn't a threat, isn't a bad person? That who he is today isn't who he was then in that long ago moment?

you are answering the wrong question. I was asking how you can make this statement: I would imagine that the man he is today has basically no relation to the man he was all those years ago in that brief moment in time. There is no "IF" in that statement. 

Of course there is room in my mind that he might be. but as you've pointed out several times, none of us know that, and can't know that. 

And to me, that's irrelevant. passage of time makes zero difference to me. an offence in 1984 is still an offence. passage of time means nothing. 

I have serious doubts that he didn't do what was accused. people don't just come out publicly like that without cause. not 30 years later. 

It all depends on if. Every single thing I've said in this thread depends on IF.

I agree that nobody would come out publicly like that without some kind of cause, but I don't agree that that cause is necessarily just. I also don't think that a 30+ year old memory is necessarily even accurate. For all we know this whole wave of accusations is what got into his, or someone else did, and the incident was completely inflated in this mind. Maybe someone else convinced him that it was a big deal when he never thought so before. We have no idea.