How old is too young?

JH6056 · July 2017

what dreams said:

on2legs said:

what dreams said:

I like to socialize with my peers at concerts. Five year olds are not my peers. I don't understand people who think they are. I hope I'm never seated next to a five year old. I won't think it's cute, and I sure as hell won't refrain from lighting a joint right next to that child. I believe I read a post in this thread with a parent saying she/he calls security on the pot smokers? Holy Batmobile. Please tell me I misunderstood that.

Well... whether you like it or not the 5 year old has just as much right to attend the show as you do.

Man... its shame the world is being deprived of all these would be great parents who don't have kids

That is true . . . Anybody who pays the fair price for the ticket has the right to be there. Seems like a perfect waste of a ticket to me. Congrats to the fans who have enough discretionary income to afford that seat for a 5 year old.

Also true, I don't have children of my own. I just deal with other people's children, 130 of them, all day long in my job. After 5:00 pm, I don't want to have anything to do with kids, much less making nice with one at a rock concert that I'm totally stoked about. It would take a total mental adjustment to see a child in the seat next to me when I've come to the concert to escape that shit, to be around grown ups.

Whatever. The parents in the group know it's not about me, so I know my preferences make no difference. Just be aware I'm not making any judgments about parenting styles or the environmental impact on the kid. I'm just saying I don't want to be next to one, and yes, it would be on me if it ruined my night, so I'm just going to hope it never happens.

The person who joked about 10C ticket options might be on to something. There should be an Adults Only section. I'd pay extra for the guarantee

I respect how you've put this. We all have our preferences about who we'd prefer to sit near, who we hate sitting near, and what kind of vibe around us at a show (PJ, other bands) we feel the best about.

We also all understand that short of doing anything actually dangerous or literally impeding the enjoyment of others so they literally can't see or hear the show or they're invading your space so you actually gave to say something/do something to stop them (someone mentioned the 20 foot banner held up blocking a bunch of people's views, or the type of person so drunk they keep throwing their actual beer all around and drenching those around them; the self-absorbed types who have to scream out at every quieter song or during every story/spoken part), a concert is a public event. You don't get to choose who you stand near for the most part, and you just go hoping you'll have considerate people around you and that everyone will have a blast.

In a bazillion years of going to shows, I can honestly say it's only a handful that I've had people around me that were so NOT my type of crowd, it bummed me out for a lot of a show. But barring them actually doing stuff that directly affected me, mostly that was about their way of "enjoying a show" being really different from my way. It was what it was, and we all kept it moving. Mostly, I've been incredibly lucky. People overall are good and considerate at shows in my experience.

JH6056 · July 2017

pjhawks said:

JH6056 said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

When I was a little kid my parents like to do adult things with their adult friends and us kids stayed home with the baby sitter. I had no problem with that and I had no interest in doing adult things with my adult parents. So why is the current parenting generation so hung up about wanting their children to participate in adult activities? Are they themselves having a hard time being adults? Is it because they want to show off their kids to everyone around them? Do they want to turn their children into miniature adults? Honestly, I don't get it. (And yes, though not a biological father, I have had parenting experience.)

yes unfortunately some (not all) parents today treat their kids as accessories. they want to do things so they get a lot of likes on facebook and instragram. it's as much or more about the parents than the kids. also parents today rather be the "cool' parent instead of the discipline parent. again not all parents are this way but if you take a 5 year old to a concert...

Couldn't agree more and working with the public, I see that a lot. The irony though is that kids are better off and happier in the long-run when given boundaries and reasonable discipline and by bringing them up that way, when they get older, they're actually more likely to be cool with their parents anyway.

Wow, as someone who works with dysfucntional families and on child development as a profession, I gotta say to both of you Brianlux and pjhawks: you are jumping to a wild number of conclusions about the links between parents saying they want to bring young kids to a concert, their parental motivations, and the lifetime outcomes for those kids. To assume that parents who want to share a show with their kids (including some kids who begged their parent per above) are therefore being raised with no boundaries or reasonable discipline? Brianlux I admire your concert resume forever but seriously? You know more about this and are more qualified to judge that than pediatricians who've been asked about this or other folks who've successfully raised multiple kids into thriving adults? That is really presumptuous of you and - more importantly - factually and scientifically ridiculous.

I deal every working day with: parents who either want to be out partying themselves and don't really want to parent at all; parents who want to be friends with their kids more than parents; and the group who feel bad about holding boundaries and disciplining their kids, think they're being "Too harsh". And I see and have to help others see the often damaging impacts of those situations. And then help parents understand how setting and holding more boundaries now will make their parenting lives better now and in the future, and be way better for their kids, and help them with how to do it (there are even multiple reasons that different parents struggle with holding boundaries, so helping them learn how to set them has to be differentiated too).

There are miles of space and other factors between a parental decision on whether you take your kids to certain events or not, how you're raising your kids overall, and what your kids life outcomes will be. You're entitled to your opinion, but wow... folks telling other people if you take young kids to a show your kids don't have boundaries or reasonable discipline? Now I've heard everything on this board!

i'm not in politics but i can form a reasonable opinion on what a crappy politician is
i'm not a musician but i can form a reasonable opinion on what bad music is
i'm not a designer but i can form a reasonable opinion on what shitty fashion is (ok maybe this one isn't always true)
i'm not a brewer but i can form a reasonable opinion on what lousy beer is
but since i'm not a parent i can't form an opinion on parenting....got it (insert eye roll emoji here)

Point taken. I've fixed the bolded above, to reflect the fact that whether you had kids or not, the conclusions you and brianlux jumped to about the motivations behind parents taking their kids to shows and what it means about how they're raising their kids overall are still absurd, presumptuous as all heck, and not supported by decades of child development research REGARDLESS of whether you have kids or not.

Every other example you give above is a subjective opinion, even what makes a good politician or not (clearly, we're currently living the fact that people have incredible differences of opinion on that). And people differ in opinion on what good parenting is and what bad parenting is as well.

You're right, you are fully entitled to your opinions about what makes a good parent or a bad parent... everyone is, whether they've had kids or not. After all, we've all at least BEEN kids and been raised (or not raised) by parents, so yeah, we all have some experience with cause and effect in parenting.

But what is NOT subjective or up to interpretation is the idea that you can look at the one decision of whether a parent - any parent - takes a young kid to a concert and by that one decision determine: how that parent is raising their child, what their relationship will be in the future, or what that child's outcomes will be due to being brought to a concert. Your alternate fact statements hardly makes those statements true.

Take a cue from the poster before you: You have every right to like and not like what you want. You even have the right to say stuff here that is ridiculous from a scientific/professional view. But don't think that saying it makes it true, and don't think you won't get called on it if it's not true.

pjhawks · July 2017

JH6056 said:

pjhawks said:

JH6056 said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

When I was a little kid my parents like to do adult things with their adult friends and us kids stayed home with the baby sitter. I had no problem with that and I had no interest in doing adult things with my adult parents. So why is the current parenting generation so hung up about wanting their children to participate in adult activities? Are they themselves having a hard time being adults? Is it because they want to show off their kids to everyone around them? Do they want to turn their children into miniature adults? Honestly, I don't get it. (And yes, though not a biological father, I have had parenting experience.)

yes unfortunately some (not all) parents today treat their kids as accessories. they want to do things so they get a lot of likes on facebook and instragram. it's as much or more about the parents than the kids. also parents today rather be the "cool' parent instead of the discipline parent. again not all parents are this way but if you take a 5 year old to a concert...

Couldn't agree more and working with the public, I see that a lot. The irony though is that kids are better off and happier in the long-run when given boundaries and reasonable discipline and by bringing them up that way, when they get older, they're actually more likely to be cool with their parents anyway.

Wow, as someone who works with dysfucntional families and on child development as a profession, I gotta say to both of you Brianlux and pjhawks: you are jumping to a wild number of conclusions about the links between parents saying they want to bring young kids to a concert, their parental motivations, and the lifetime outcomes for those kids. To assume that parents who want to share a show with their kids (including some kids who begged their parent per above) are therefore being raised with no boundaries or reasonable discipline? Brianlux I admire your concert resume forever but seriously? You know more about this and are more qualified to judge that than pediatricians who've been asked about this or other folks who've successfully raised multiple kids into thriving adults? That is really presumptuous of you and - more importantly - factually and scientifically ridiculous.

I deal every working day with: parents who either want to be out partying themselves and don't really want to parent at all; parents who want to be friends with their kids more than parents; and the group who feel bad about holding boundaries and disciplining their kids, think they're being "Too harsh". And I see and have to help others see the often damaging impacts of those situations. And then help parents understand how setting and holding more boundaries now will make their parenting lives better now and in the future, and be way better for their kids, and help them with how to do it (there are even multiple reasons that different parents struggle with holding boundaries, so helping them learn how to set them has to be differentiated too).

There are miles of space and other factors between a parental decision on whether you take your kids to certain events or not, how you're raising your kids overall, and what your kids life outcomes will be. You're entitled to your opinion, but wow... folks telling other people if you take young kids to a show your kids don't have boundaries or reasonable discipline? Now I've heard everything on this board!

i'm not in politics but i can form a reasonable opinion on what a crappy politician is
i'm not a musician but i can form a reasonable opinion on what bad music is
i'm not a designer but i can form a reasonable opinion on what shitty fashion is (ok maybe this one isn't always true)
i'm not a brewer but i can form a reasonable opinion on what lousy beer is
but since i'm not a parent i can't form an opinion on parenting....got it (insert eye roll emoji here)

Point taken. I've fixed the bolded above, to reflect the fact that whether you had kids or not, the conclusions you and brianlux jumped to about the motivations behind parents taking their kids to shows and what it means about how they're raising their kids overall are still absurd, presumptuous as all heck, and not supported by decades of child development research REGARDLESS of whether you have kids or not.

Every other example you give above is a subjective opinion, even what makes a good politician or not (clearly, we're currently living the fact that people have incredible differences of opinion on that). And people differ in opinion on what good parenting is and what bad parenting is as well.

You're right, you are fully entitled to your opinions about what makes a good parent or a bad parent... everyone is, whether they've had kids or not. After all, we've all at least BEEN kids and been raised (or not raised) by parents, so yeah, we all have some experience with cause and effect in parenting.

But what is NOT subjective or up to interpretation is the idea that you can look at the one decision of whether a parent - any parent - takes a young kid to a concert and by that one decision determine: how that parent is raising their child, what their relationship will be in the future, or what that child's outcomes will be due to being brought to a concert. Your alternate fact statements hardly makes those statements true.

Take a cue from the poster before you: You have every right to like and not like what you want. You even have the right to say stuff here that is ridiculous from a scientific/professional view. But don't think that saying it makes it true, and don't think you won't get called on it if it's not true.

never once did i say someone was a bad parent for taking a kid to a show. i said it was idiotic to take a 5 year old. that doesn't make them bad parents necessarily. making one decision doesn't make someone a bad parent. it just means maybe that one decision wasn't the best choice. i'm just shocked that anyone would take a 5 year old to a rock concert and think it's a good idea and then have people defend that action here.

edit: and a parent taking a 5 year old to a show would not effect my enjoyment of the show at all unless that child was acting up or if said parent insisted on putting that kid on his shoulders blocking my view.

JH6056 · July 2017

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

When I was a little kid my parents like to do adult things with their adult friends and us kids stayed home with the baby sitter. I had no problem with that and I had no interest in doing adult things with my adult parents. So why is the current parenting generation so hung up about wanting their children to participate in adult activities? Are they themselves having a hard time being adults? Is it because they want to show off their kids to everyone around them? Do they want to turn their children into miniature adults? Honestly, I don't get it. (And yes, though not a biological father, I have had parenting experience.)

yes unfortunately some (not all) parents today treat their kids as accessories. they want to do things so they get a lot of likes on facebook and instragram. it's as much or more about the parents than the kids. also parents today rather be the "cool' parent instead of the discipline parent. again not all parents are this way but if you take a 5 year old to a concert...

Your own quote, just to refresh your memory, since you seem to be having a little bit of a brain lapse on what you said... Don't worry, "senior moments" happen to many...

So just to recap, given that the above is exactly what you said:

Your examples above in the other post are subjective, just like your opinions and all our opinons on what a good or bad parent is. And you and all of us are totally entitled to those opinions.

But you agreeing with brianlux's points about parents raising their kids with no discipline and adding your own statements that this "young kids at concerts" thing equates to: parents treating kids as accessories; it being more about the parents than the kids; parents rather be "cool parent" than discipline parent... and these all being evident if you take a 5 yr old...

Yeah, still absurd jumping to conclusions, still ridiculous, still not borne out by decades of research and experience about what signs of good discipline are, what signs of harmful discipline are, what "no discipline" looks like; how to measure the factors of how a child is being raised... it goes on and on. Also still true that all types of parents can make the decision to bring their young kid to a show, just like all types of parents can make the decision not to. There are parents who've never been to a concert themselves in their entire lives who can do horrid and evil things to kids. There is zero causal connection between the 2.

You said what you said, at least man up and own it. And yeah, still absurd conclusion to draw from that one point.

HughFreakingDillon · July 2017

mace1229 said:

I don't get half the comments in this thread.
first, the repeated notion of "why would you let what others think dictate what you do?" Well that's called common courtesy. I'm assuming anyone who says that is the guy holding the annoying banner blocking the view of 20 people behind him for half the show. Taking into consideration how others feel is the basics behind common courtesy, so I don't know why that is treated like a bad thing.

that being said, who has ever been bothered by a kid at a show? Never even occurred to me that anyone could be bothered by a kid until I read some comments. My first though when I see a kid at a show or game is "dang it, now I'm going to look like a dick if I reach over their head to grab a foul ball or t-shirt," but that's about the extent of it.
what age is too young is up to the parents. Personally for me probably not under 12 for PJ. I know very few kids 7 or 8 who are into their own music that isn't going to make me wish hateful things on the band. And so I just don't see the point of spending that money.
Each parent should decide their own filter. I don't get the criticism about that. I personally probably wouldn't want to expose my kids to everything that entails a Pj show until 10 or 12. And just because what said on the playground is worse than anything on TV doesn't mean I'm going to put on Game of Thrones for them. I'll still censor when I can until they are older.

my kid is not blocking your view. my kid is sitting there with her headphones on, bopping her head to the music. if that ruins your time, then yes, that is your problem, not anyone else's.

i have yet to hear one single solitary reason why my kid being at a show effects your time. not one.

HughFreakingDillon · July 2017

brianlux said:

When I was a little kid my parents like to do adult things with their adult friends and us kids stayed home with the baby sitter. I had no problem with that and I had no interest in doing adult things with my adult parents. So why is the current parenting generation so hung up about wanting their children to participate in adult activities? Are they themselves having a hard time being adults? Is it because they want to show off their kids to everyone around them? Do they want to turn their children into miniature adults? Honestly, I don't get it. (And yes, though not a biological father, I have had parenting experience.)

live music is an adult thing now? I didn't take my daughter to a burlesque show. I took her to a rock show.

my wife and I do plenty of adult things on our own; kids with my parents. I don't see your point at all, brian. I see narcissistic tendencies with the selfie generation and stuff like that, but I don't see any trend of parents being hung up about children participating in adult activities. examples?

when my wife was a bartender in scotland, she told me stories about how families do everything together. they go to the pub, children in tow, to a drinking establishment on fridays after work. the first time I heard that, I couldn't believe it. I thought "what horrible people these scots are!". then I realized people in north america are just so fucking uptight about everything.

I'm not at the point, and doubtful I ever will be, of taking my kids to the pub, but to a live music event she wanted to go to? if my daughter shares my passion and begs me to go, then I'm cultivating that.

HughFreakingDillon · July 2017

pjhawks said:

JH6056 said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

When I was a little kid my parents like to do adult things with their adult friends and us kids stayed home with the baby sitter. I had no problem with that and I had no interest in doing adult things with my adult parents. So why is the current parenting generation so hung up about wanting their children to participate in adult activities? Are they themselves having a hard time being adults? Is it because they want to show off their kids to everyone around them? Do they want to turn their children into miniature adults? Honestly, I don't get it. (And yes, though not a biological father, I have had parenting experience.)

yes unfortunately some (not all) parents today treat their kids as accessories. they want to do things so they get a lot of likes on facebook and instragram. it's as much or more about the parents than the kids. also parents today rather be the "cool' parent instead of the discipline parent. again not all parents are this way but if you take a 5 year old to a concert...

Couldn't agree more and working with the public, I see that a lot. The irony though is that kids are better off and happier in the long-run when given boundaries and reasonable discipline and by bringing them up that way, when they get older, they're actually more likely to be cool with their parents anyway.

Wow, as someone who works with dysfucntional families and on child development as a profession, I gotta say to both of you Brianlux and pjhawks: you are jumping to a wild number of conclusions about the links between parents saying they want to bring young kids to a concert, their parental motivations, and the lifetime outcomes for those kids. To assume that parents who want to share a show with their kids (including some kids who begged their parent per above) are therefore being raised with no boundaries or reasonable discipline? Brianlux I admire your concert resume forever but seriously? You know more about this and are more qualified to judge that than pediatricians who've been asked about this or other folks who've successfully raised multiple kids into thriving adults? That is really presumptuous of you and - more importantly - factually and scientifically ridiculous.

I deal every working day with: parents who either want to be out partying themselves and don't really want to parent at all; parents who want to be friends with their kids more than parents; and the group who feel bad about holding boundaries and disciplining their kids, think they're being "Too harsh". And I see and have to help others see the often damaging impacts of those situations. And then help parents understand how setting and holding more boundaries now will make their parenting lives better now and in the future, and be way better for their kids, and help them with how to do it (there are even multiple reasons that different parents struggle with holding boundaries, so helping them learn how to set them has to be differentiated too).

There are miles of space and other factors between a parental decision on whether you take your kids to certain events or not, how you're raising your kids overall, and what your kids life outcomes will be. You're entitled to your opinion, but wow... folks with no kids telling other people if you take young kids to a show your kids don't have boundaries or reasonable discipline? Now I've heard everything on this board!

i'm not in politics but i can form a reasonable opinion on what a crappy politician is
i'm not a musician but i can form a reasonable opinion on what bad music is
i'm not a designer but i can form a reasonable opinion on what shitty fashion is (ok maybe this one isn't always true)
i'm not a brewer but i can form a reasonable opinion on what lousy beer is
but since i'm not a parent i can't form an opinion on parenting....got it (insert eye roll emoji here)

you can, but it will most likely be incorrect. one thing I've learned after becoming a parent, is that you have no idea what 3 million decisions or life events happened to get that parent/child to that point, and therefore have zero context into what made them come to whatever decision is is that they've made that you are judging them on.

beer tasting a parenting are the same. that's funny.

there are very few black and white decisions with parenting. if there were, we'd all have a handbook and it would be a walk in the park.

pjhawks · July 2017

JH6056 said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

When I was a little kid my parents like to do adult things with their adult friends and us kids stayed home with the baby sitter. I had no problem with that and I had no interest in doing adult things with my adult parents. So why is the current parenting generation so hung up about wanting their children to participate in adult activities? Are they themselves having a hard time being adults? Is it because they want to show off their kids to everyone around them? Do they want to turn their children into miniature adults? Honestly, I don't get it. (And yes, though not a biological father, I have had parenting experience.)

yes unfortunately some (not all) parents today treat their kids as accessories. they want to do things so they get a lot of likes on facebook and instragram. it's as much or more about the parents than the kids. also parents today rather be the "cool' parent instead of the discipline parent. again not all parents are this way but if you take a 5 year old to a concert...

Your own quote, just to refresh your memory, since you seem to be having a little bit of a brain lapse on what you said... Don't worry, "senior moments" happen to many...

So just to recap, given that the above is exactly what you said:

Your examples above in the other post are subjective, just like your opinions and all our opinons on what a good or bad parent is. And you and all of us are totally entitled to those opinions.

But you agreeing with brianlux's points about parents raising their kids with no discipline and adding your own statements that this "young kids at concerts" thing equates to: parents treating kids as accessories; it being more about the parents than the kids; parents rather be "cool parent" than discipline parent... and these all being evident if you take a 5 yr old...

Yeah, still absurd jumping to conclusions, still ridiculous, still not borne out by decades of research and experience about what signs of good discipline are, what signs of harmful discipline are, what "no discipline" looks like; how to measure the factors of how a child is being raised... it goes on and on. Also still true that all types of parents can make the decision to bring their young kid to a show, just like all types of parents can make the decision not to. There are parents who've never been to a concert themselves in their entire lives who can do horrid and evil things to kids. There is zero causal connection between the 2.

You said what you said, at least man up and own it. And yeah, still absurd conclusion to draw from that one point.

no i know exactly what I said and the post of mine you quoted at no point do i say they are bad parents. In fact i specifically said "some not all" to the things i mentioned. maybe you were too busy with the kids to understand my quote correctly so I will forgive you for that one. secondly do you disagree with any of the assertions I made in the post you quoted? you don't think that "some" parents (as i stated originally) use their kids as props and some parents try to the "cool" parents?. If you haven't seen or experienced either of those i'd love to live in the utopia you current reside in.

and stop chiding me for my opinion since the OP asked for our opinions on the subject. and my opinion a 5 year old at a rock concert is absurd. there is literally nothing you can say that will change my opinion on that.

HughFreakingDillon · July 2017

pjhawks said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I'm not sure why people focus on if the kid will remember it or not. if that was the criteria, disney world would be empty. they might not have a consious memory of it, but the bonding over live music will remain, like anything else you do with your kid pre-9 years old. and it just may influence their musical tastes in the future.

It's just different in my mind. Disney world is for little kids. Concerts are not. Some things can be better appreciated by little kids than others. Obviously everyone knows that experiences early in life contribute to the person they'll be. What I meant was that a 5 year old can't appreciate a concert for what it is in the mind of the parent. It doesn't seem like something that can be adequately "shared" between an adult a 5 year old. Anyway, I don't think little kids and concerts mix well. They simply don't seem like atmospheres that are appropriate for a 5 year old. Drugs, booze, excessively loud music, potentially rowdy crowds, profanity, ends late at night - that all equals "not for kids" in my mind.

well, my 7 year old loved the weezer show, and she keeps asking when i can take her to pj.

saying 'concerts are not for little kids' is an opinion, not a fact. would i have taken her back in the day of smoking in arenas? no. would have i have taken her to a motley crue show? obviously not. that's why i chose weezer, because, besides a few of the lyrics that will go over her head anyway, i knew she'd dig the music.

again, it could be argued the same way that monster truck rallies are not for little kids either, bunch of drunks yelling GRAAAAVEDIGGGGER while spilling their beer all over someone isn't what i call a kid's atmosphere. neither, mind you, is a sporting event, with people screaming 'motherfucker' at the ref at the top of their lungs and drinking like it's going out of style. yet, you see kids at those everywhere.

why are people ragging on concerts?

a 5 year old should be home in bed at 9:00 pm let alone 11:00-12:00 when a show is over.

Hahaha what, do they turn into a pumpkin at 9:30?
That's just a silly and arbitrary deadline that has no reason backing it.

no one who advocates for children in the medical profession would think it's a good idea for a 5 year old to be at a rock concert between the hours of 9:00 pm and midnight. if you can show me at least one then i'll change my position.

so this changed I guess?

JH6056 · July 2017

pjhawks said:

JH6056 said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

When I was a little kid my parents like to do adult things with their adult friends and us kids stayed home with the baby sitter. I had no problem with that and I had no interest in doing adult things with my adult parents. So why is the current parenting generation so hung up about wanting their children to participate in adult activities? Are they themselves having a hard time being adults? Is it because they want to show off their kids to everyone around them? Do they want to turn their children into miniature adults? Honestly, I don't get it. (And yes, though not a biological father, I have had parenting experience.)

yes unfortunately some (not all) parents today treat their kids as accessories. they want to do things so they get a lot of likes on facebook and instragram. it's as much or more about the parents than the kids. also parents today rather be the "cool' parent instead of the discipline parent. again not all parents are this way but if you take a 5 year old to a concert...

Your own quote, just to refresh your memory, since you seem to be having a little bit of a brain lapse on what you said... Don't worry, "senior moments" happen to many...

So just to recap, given that the above is exactly what you said:

Your examples above in the other post are subjective, just like your opinions and all our opinons on what a good or bad parent is. And you and all of us are totally entitled to those opinions.

But you agreeing with brianlux's points about parents raising their kids with no discipline and adding your own statements that this "young kids at concerts" thing equates to: parents treating kids as accessories; it being more about the parents than the kids; parents rather be "cool parent" than discipline parent... and these all being evident if you take a 5 yr old...

Yeah, still absurd jumping to conclusions, still ridiculous, still not borne out by decades of research and experience about what signs of good discipline are, what signs of harmful discipline are, what "no discipline" looks like; how to measure the factors of how a child is being raised... it goes on and on. Also still true that all types of parents can make the decision to bring their young kid to a show, just like all types of parents can make the decision not to. There are parents who've never been to a concert themselves in their entire lives who can do horrid and evil things to kids. There is zero causal connection between the 2.

You said what you said, at least man up and own it. And yeah, still absurd conclusion to draw from that one point.

no i know exactly what I said and the post of mine you quoted at no point do i say they are bad parents. In fact i specifically said "some not all" to the things i mentioned. maybe you were too busy with the kids to understand my quote correctly so I will forgive you for that one. secondly do you disagree with any of the assertions I made in the post you quoted? you don't think that "some" parents (as i stated originally) use their kids as props and some parents try to the "cool" parents?. If you haven't seen or experienced either of those i'd love to live in the utopia you current reside in.

and stop chiding me for my opinion since the OP asked for our opinions on the subject. and my opinion a 5 year old at a rock concert is absurd. there is literally nothing you can say that will change my opinion on that.

I'm not chiding you for your opinion. I'm chiding you for taking one decision and jumping to conclusions about what it means for a parent's motivation or for the general upbringing of their kid. And guess what? Just like you get to jump to non-sensical conclusions, I get to chide you for it-if that's what you want to call my response to your points.

As to your points, no question, there are definitely parents that act or do the things you say. Nowhere do I disagree with that, so maybe try to read and understand my posts a bit more? Nowhere do I say that doesn't happen. It's the connection you make in your last line with those examples of problematic parental behavior and bringing a 5 yr old that speaks for itself. You backpeddling on that now doesn't change what's pretty clear in your post.

And I'm more than clear that you think what you think and you're not changing your mind. At this point I don't keep responding to you to change your mind; I keep responding to you because I don't want anyone else who reads this thread and is considering bringing a kid to a show to think that there's any legitimate connection between doing that and *actually* not creating boundaries or trying to be your kid's friend instead of their parent - all just because you took your kid to a show.

I get it, you want to be able to just say stuff and not get called on it if there's no legit direct connection where you're making a connection. Feel free to carry on. I have 2 deadlines today but it's always good to take a mental break to discuss things here.

JH6056 · July 2017

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

When I was a little kid my parents like to do adult things with their adult friends and us kids stayed home with the baby sitter. I had no problem with that and I had no interest in doing adult things with my adult parents. So why is the current parenting generation so hung up about wanting their children to participate in adult activities? Are they themselves having a hard time being adults? Is it because they want to show off their kids to everyone around them? Do they want to turn their children into miniature adults? Honestly, I don't get it. (And yes, though not a biological father, I have had parenting experience.)

live music is an adult thing now? I didn't take my daughter to a burlesque show. I took her to a rock show.

my wife and I do plenty of adult things on our own; kids with my parents. I don't see your point at all, brian. I see narcissistic tendencies with the selfie generation and stuff like that, but I don't see any trend of parents being hung up about children participating in adult activities. examples?

when my wife was a bartender in scotland, she told me stories about how families do everything together. they go to the pub, children in tow, to a drinking establishment on fridays after work. the first time I heard that, I couldn't believe it. I thought "what horrible people these scots are!". then I realized people in north america are just so fucking uptight about everything.

I'm not at the point, and doubtful I ever will be, of taking my kids to the pub, but to a live music event she wanted to go to? if my daughter shares my passion and begs me to go, then I'm cultivating that.

So completely agree with this. I have so many examples in my l life of people who are adults now who've accomplished astonishingly impressive things, and when you talk to them about how they were raised, there are so many parental decisions their own parents made that make even me raise my eyebrows at first, like "What? Who thinks that's a good idea??" But context is everything, and there is also always so much more to every parenting decision than one specific individual decision (unless it's a horrible evil one that leaves people injured/dead). And I now realize that some of those decisions (no, not specifically taking them to concerts when they were young, but many that seem much crazier to me at first) were some of the best decisions ever, given the rest of the family situation and seeing how things turned out.

We all do our best as parents, and we all also have bad days (or weeks, or months!) as parents where we wish we'd done better. But there is just too much good data, professional opinion, and general parenting experience out there that shows the importance overall of having parents be in the healthiest, most positive state of mind they can be in, and raising your kids to be as healthy, safe, positive, common sense-thinking as possible, and having a strong positive relationship to you as being the most important parts of parenting. If whatever you're doing adds to the good stuff, and either prevents or removes the bad stuff... do your thing. Eyerolls from others (whether they be other parents or, ahem, non-parents) are what they are. The most important bottom line is how your kids are doing.

Get_Right · July 2017

This thread is funny. There are no right or wrong answers and nobody has the right to say what is right or wrong for another persons child.
At the end of the day, if you are a good parent, exposure to the "bad" things that are common at rock concerts is not going to turn your child into a drug addict, prostitute or criminal. Unless you take them to insane clown posse. Then you deserve whatever you get.

what dreams · July 2017

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

I don't get half the comments in this thread.
first, the repeated notion of "why would you let what others think dictate what you do?" Well that's called common courtesy. I'm assuming anyone who says that is the guy holding the annoying banner blocking the view of 20 people behind him for half the show. Taking into consideration how others feel is the basics behind common courtesy, so I don't know why that is treated like a bad thing.

that being said, who has ever been bothered by a kid at a show? Never even occurred to me that anyone could be bothered by a kid until I read some comments. My first though when I see a kid at a show or game is "dang it, now I'm going to look like a dick if I reach over their head to grab a foul ball or t-shirt," but that's about the extent of it.
what age is too young is up to the parents. Personally for me probably not under 12 for PJ. I know very few kids 7 or 8 who are into their own music that isn't going to make me wish hateful things on the band. And so I just don't see the point of spending that money.
Each parent should decide their own filter. I don't get the criticism about that. I personally probably wouldn't want to expose my kids to everything that entails a Pj show until 10 or 12. And just because what said on the playground is worse than anything on TV doesn't mean I'm going to put on Game of Thrones for them. I'll still censor when I can until they are older.

my kid is not blocking your view. my kid is sitting there with her headphones on, bopping her head to the music. if that ruins your time, then yes, that is your problem, not anyone else's.

i have yet to hear one single solitary reason why my kid being at a show effects your time. not one.

One reason: Total buzz kill. As a parent, you may be cool with your child watching me smoke pot. I'm not cool smoking pot in front of children. It would definitely affect my high, and please don't tell me not to light up because that would really, really annoy me even more.

HughFreakingDillon · July 2017

what dreams said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

I don't get half the comments in this thread.
first, the repeated notion of "why would you let what others think dictate what you do?" Well that's called common courtesy. I'm assuming anyone who says that is the guy holding the annoying banner blocking the view of 20 people behind him for half the show. Taking into consideration how others feel is the basics behind common courtesy, so I don't know why that is treated like a bad thing.

that being said, who has ever been bothered by a kid at a show? Never even occurred to me that anyone could be bothered by a kid until I read some comments. My first though when I see a kid at a show or game is "dang it, now I'm going to look like a dick if I reach over their head to grab a foul ball or t-shirt," but that's about the extent of it.
what age is too young is up to the parents. Personally for me probably not under 12 for PJ. I know very few kids 7 or 8 who are into their own music that isn't going to make me wish hateful things on the band. And so I just don't see the point of spending that money.
Each parent should decide their own filter. I don't get the criticism about that. I personally probably wouldn't want to expose my kids to everything that entails a Pj show until 10 or 12. And just because what said on the playground is worse than anything on TV doesn't mean I'm going to put on Game of Thrones for them. I'll still censor when I can until they are older.

my kid is not blocking your view. my kid is sitting there with her headphones on, bopping her head to the music. if that ruins your time, then yes, that is your problem, not anyone else's.

i have yet to hear one single solitary reason why my kid being at a show effects your time. not one.

One reason: Total buzz kill. As a parent, you may be cool with your child watching me smoke pot. I'm not cool smoking pot in front of children. It would definitely affect my high, and please don't tell me not to light up because that would really, really annoy me even more.

now this is rich: you don't want my kid there to ruin your time, but it's because you want to do something illegal and that has the potential to bother many people around you, but no one's allowed to tell you not to light up if it's ruining their time?

I smoke weed. But I don't smoke weed at indoor shows anymore as I understand how bothersome it can be to people around me. not to mention running the risk of getting kicked out of the show.

JH6056 · July 2017

Get_Right said:

This thread is funny. There are no right or wrong answers and nobody has the right to say what is right or wrong for another persons child.
At the end of the day, if you are a good parent, exposure to the "bad" things that are common at rock concerts is not going to turn your child into a drug addict, prostitute or criminal. Unless you take them to insane clown posse. Then you deserve whatever you get.

Crap! [Jumps online to see if I got ticket insurance and can cancel 6 tickets to Insane Clown Posse] [Also wondering if 5 yr olds I was going to take will slash my tires for cancelling]

Get_Right · July 2017

JH6056 said:

Get_Right said:

This thread is funny. There are no right or wrong answers and nobody has the right to say what is right or wrong for another persons child.
At the end of the day, if you are a good parent, exposure to the "bad" things that are common at rock concerts is not going to turn your child into a drug addict, prostitute or criminal. Unless you take them to insane clown posse. Then you deserve whatever you get.

Crap! [Jumps online to see if I got ticket insurance and can cancel 6 tickets to Insane Clown Posse] [Also wondering if 5 yr olds I was going to take will slash my tires for cancelling]

LOL and dump cotton candy flavored Faygo all over your new ride

AfghanTwilight · July 2017

At Tom Petty last week, I remarked how the show would have been a great one to bring kids to (lawn seats). Sound wasn't very loud, crowd was tame--but man people don't really seem to care how evil cigarettes are.

what dreams · July 2017

HughFreakingDillon said:

what dreams said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

I don't get half the comments in this thread.
first, the repeated notion of "why would you let what others think dictate what you do?" Well that's called common courtesy. I'm assuming anyone who says that is the guy holding the annoying banner blocking the view of 20 people behind him for half the show. Taking into consideration how others feel is the basics behind common courtesy, so I don't know why that is treated like a bad thing.

that being said, who has ever been bothered by a kid at a show? Never even occurred to me that anyone could be bothered by a kid until I read some comments. My first though when I see a kid at a show or game is "dang it, now I'm going to look like a dick if I reach over their head to grab a foul ball or t-shirt," but that's about the extent of it.
what age is too young is up to the parents. Personally for me probably not under 12 for PJ. I know very few kids 7 or 8 who are into their own music that isn't going to make me wish hateful things on the band. And so I just don't see the point of spending that money.
Each parent should decide their own filter. I don't get the criticism about that. I personally probably wouldn't want to expose my kids to everything that entails a Pj show until 10 or 12. And just because what said on the playground is worse than anything on TV doesn't mean I'm going to put on Game of Thrones for them. I'll still censor when I can until they are older.

my kid is not blocking your view. my kid is sitting there with her headphones on, bopping her head to the music. if that ruins your time, then yes, that is your problem, not anyone else's.

i have yet to hear one single solitary reason why my kid being at a show effects your time. not one.

One reason: Total buzz kill. As a parent, you may be cool with your child watching me smoke pot. I'm not cool smoking pot in front of children. It would definitely affect my high, and please don't tell me not to light up because that would really, really annoy me even more.

now this is rich: you don't want my kid there to ruin your time, but it's because you want to do something illegal and that has the potential to bother many people around you, but no one's allowed to tell you not to light up if it's ruining their time?

I smoke weed. But I don't smoke weed at indoor shows anymore as I understand how bothersome it can be to people around me. not to mention running the risk of getting kicked out of the show.

Oh, I'm sure there will be people who tell me what I can and cannot do everywhere and anywhere . . . Isn't what this whole thread is about? Someone asked for an opinion on what to do regarding a child. If the acceptable answer to the parent is "whatever floats your boat, daddy" then I expect the same respect. It floats my boat to smoke weed at concerts. Sorry that bothers anybody, but sitting next to your kid bothers me. I can't very well ask you not to bring your child, can I? In fact, I haven't. My consistent position is just that I hope I never sit next to one, as well as hoping I don't sit near the pot police either. Sorry not everyone is in love with your child. I know that's hard to believe as a parent, but maybe you can work on letting that sink in.

JH6056 · July 2017

Get_Right said:

JH6056 said:

Get_Right said:

This thread is funny. There are no right or wrong answers and nobody has the right to say what is right or wrong for another persons child.
At the end of the day, if you are a good parent, exposure to the "bad" things that are common at rock concerts is not going to turn your child into a drug addict, prostitute or criminal. Unless you take them to insane clown posse. Then you deserve whatever you get.

Crap! [Jumps online to see if I got ticket insurance and can cancel 6 tickets to Insane Clown Posse] [Also wondering if 5 yr olds I was going to take will slash my tires for cancelling]

LOL and dump cotton candy flavored Faygo all over your new ride

I just can't believe I believed the 5 yr olds when they told me ICP was kids' music and that singing about killing your parents was the theme on Sesame Street this week...

on2legs · July 2017

Get_Right said:

JH6056 said:

Get_Right said:

This thread is funny. There are no right or wrong answers and nobody has the right to say what is right or wrong for another persons child.
At the end of the day, if you are a good parent, exposure to the "bad" things that are common at rock concerts is not going to turn your child into a drug addict, prostitute or criminal. Unless you take them to insane clown posse. Then you deserve whatever you get.

Crap! [Jumps online to see if I got ticket insurance and can cancel 6 tickets to Insane Clown Posse] [Also wondering if 5 yr olds I was going to take will slash my tires for cancelling]

LOL and dump cotton candy flavored Faygo all over your new ride

Only because I stopped for gas in South Carolina and went into the attached convenience store do I know what Faygo is.

How old is too young?

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