Richard Spencer

unsung said:

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dignin said:

Go Beavers said:

I wish the more accurate term of white supremacist was used instead of white nationalist.

Exactly. Let's start calling it what it really is.

They are.  There is a difference.

What is the difference? 
Seriously curious to what separates the two.

HughFreakingDillon said:

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unsung said:

Shouldn't all interactions with other people be voluntary?

I wasn't necessarily referencing a specific example.  

yes, as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights. 

I would agree with that.  But if I voluntarily remove myself from an interaction that is not an infringement to someone else's rights.

For example, the baker, if they don't want to bake that cake for the gay couple then that is their right.  It is not the right of the couole to have a cake made for them.  They could go to another baker.  Nobody has a right to force another person into an association, nobody has the right to another person's labor or services.

Otherwise it is forced and that association is forced.

HughFreakingDillon said:

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unsung said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

unsung said:

Shouldn't all interactions with other people be voluntary?

I wasn't necessarily referencing a specific example.  

yes, as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights. 

I would agree with that.  But if I voluntarily remove myself from an interaction that is not an infringement to someone else's rights.

For example, the baker, if they don't want to bake that cake for the gay couple then that is their right.  It is not the right of the couole to have a cake made for them.  They could go to another baker.  Nobody has a right to force another person into an association, nobody has the right to another person's labor or services.

Otherwise it is forced and that association is forced.

no, you cannot operate a business and refuse service to someone based on their gender, orientation, race, etc. that's called discrimination. if you don't want to serve everyone, don't start a business. opening a public business you are waiving your right to be a bigot. 

So by opening a business you are waiving your right to voluntarily associate, is that what you are saying?

And you discriminate on every decision that you make, your definition is a little off.

unsung said:

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HughFreakingDillon said:

unsung said:

Shouldn't all interactions with other people be voluntary?

I wasn't necessarily referencing a specific example.  

yes, as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights. 

I would agree with that.  But if I voluntarily remove myself from an interaction that is not an infringement to someone else's rights.

For example, the baker, if they don't want to bake that cake for the gay couple then that is their right.  It is not the right of the couole to have a cake made for them.  They could go to another baker.  Nobody has a right to force another person into an association, nobody has the right to another person's labor or services.

Otherwise it is forced and that association is forced.

You can look at anti-discrimination laws as forced if you want, but a business person agrees to the rules beforehand. They chose to start a business and agreed to the rules. If you don't want to serve gays, then don't have a business that serves the public. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

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unsung said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

unsung said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

unsung said:

Shouldn't all interactions with other people be voluntary?

I wasn't necessarily referencing a specific example.  

yes, as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights. 

I would agree with that.  But if I voluntarily remove myself from an interaction that is not an infringement to someone else's rights.

For example, the baker, if they don't want to bake that cake for the gay couple then that is their right.  It is not the right of the couole to have a cake made for them.  They could go to another baker.  Nobody has a right to force another person into an association, nobody has the right to another person's labor or services.

Otherwise it is forced and that association is forced.

no, you cannot operate a business and refuse service to someone based on their gender, orientation, race, etc. that's called discrimination. if you don't want to serve everyone, don't start a business. opening a public business you are waiving your right to be a bigot. 

So by opening a business you are waiving your right to voluntarily associate, is that what you are saying?

And you discriminate on every decision that you make, your definition is a little off.

yes, of course. 

are you advocating going back to the days of yore when a business would be well within their right to post a sign saying "whites only"?

Well yes, back when America was still great.

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

One has white robes, the other eggshell?

oftenreading said:

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unsung said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

unsung said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

unsung said:

Shouldn't all interactions with other people be voluntary?

I wasn't necessarily referencing a specific example.  

yes, as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights. 

I would agree with that.  But if I voluntarily remove myself from an interaction that is not an infringement to someone else's rights.

For example, the baker, if they don't want to bake that cake for the gay couple then that is their right.  It is not the right of the couole to have a cake made for them.  They could go to another baker.  Nobody has a right to force another person into an association, nobody has the right to another person's labor or services.

Otherwise it is forced and that association is forced.

no, you cannot operate a business and refuse service to someone based on their gender, orientation, race, etc. that's called discrimination. if you don't want to serve everyone, don't start a business. opening a public business you are waiving your right to be a bigot. 

So by opening a business you are waiving your right to voluntarily associate, is that what you are saying?

And you discriminate on every decision that you make, your definition is a little off.

Yes, by opening a public business you give up your right to discriminate against groups of people for reasons prohibited by law, including race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. By gaining the benefits of access to the public as clients you give up the right to discriminate against groups of them. 

I disagree.

People open up a business to make money, it is in their best interest to accomodate everyone that is willing to pay.  They don't need to be forced in order to do so if they want to remain in business.

unsung said:

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oftenreading said:

unsung said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

unsung said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

unsung said:

Shouldn't all interactions with other people be voluntary?

I wasn't necessarily referencing a specific example.  

yes, as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights. 

I would agree with that.  But if I voluntarily remove myself from an interaction that is not an infringement to someone else's rights.

For example, the baker, if they don't want to bake that cake for the gay couple then that is their right.  It is not the right of the couole to have a cake made for them.  They could go to another baker.  Nobody has a right to force another person into an association, nobody has the right to another person's labor or services.

Otherwise it is forced and that association is forced.

no, you cannot operate a business and refuse service to someone based on their gender, orientation, race, etc. that's called discrimination. if you don't want to serve everyone, don't start a business. opening a public business you are waiving your right to be a bigot. 

So by opening a business you are waiving your right to voluntarily associate, is that what you are saying?

And you discriminate on every decision that you make, your definition is a little off.

Yes, by opening a public business you give up your right to discriminate against groups of people for reasons prohibited by law, including race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. By gaining the benefits of access to the public as clients you give up the right to discriminate against groups of them. 

I disagree.

People open up a business to make money, it is in their best interest to accomodate everyone that is willing to pay.  They don't need to be forced in order to do so if they want to remain in business.

people's "convictions", no matter what they are, often trump their financial, or best, interest. you give people the right to discriminate, they will. we've seen that. we still see it. 

this thread is proof of that. 

rgambs said:

@unsung
What's the difference between a white nationalist and a white supremacist?

Try and follow along.

unsung said:

There is no angle.

I say all associations need to be voluntary and not forced.  You agreed that is so if nobody is having their rights trampled.  Then you tell me the bakery should have to bake a cake so now you are forcing association.  

The customer had no rights violated.

Or do you think the customer has the right to the cake?

The customer has a right to service regardless of their race, sexual orientation, etc