Without Government...

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  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    unsung said:

    Without government...

    Who would extort those that are trying to make life safer?

    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/man-fined-dollar500-for-crime-of-writing-i-am-an-engineer-in-an-email-to-the-government

    Without government, who would have put those traffic lights there, to make life safer?
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    oftenreading said:

    unsung said:

    Without government...

    Who would extort those that are trying to make life safer?

    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/man-fined-dollar500-for-crime-of-writing-i-am-an-engineer-in-an-email-to-the-government

    Without government, who would have put those traffic lights there, to make life safer?
    In unsung's world it's Trump cars driving on the Trump highway, operated by Trump security guards, with tolls paid to Trump enterprises.
    Doesn't that sound delightful?

    /happen to agree - traffic camera lights are shit
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    unsung said:

    Without government...

    Who would extort those that are trying to make life safer?

    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/man-fined-dollar500-for-crime-of-writing-i-am-an-engineer-in-an-email-to-the-government

    Looks like he was fined for saying he was an engineer when he wasn't.
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    CM189191 said:

    oftenreading said:

    unsung said:

    Without government...

    Who would extort those that are trying to make life safer?

    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/man-fined-dollar500-for-crime-of-writing-i-am-an-engineer-in-an-email-to-the-government

    Without government, who would have put those traffic lights there, to make life safer?
    In unsung's world it's Trump cars driving on the Trump highway, operated by Trump security guards, with tolls paid to Trump enterprises.
    Doesn't that sound delightful?

    /happen to agree - traffic camera lights are shit
    Agreed, these traffic cams are typically nothing more than revenue streams for municipalities. They have nothing to do with safety. And the Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying can go fuck themselves. They clearly felt threatened that a private sector engineer with obviously more intelligence than they have dared to suggest a flaw in their system. The horror! A private citizen questioning the unquestionable, and actually identifying himself as an engineer. That must have really had them sweating under their pocket protectors.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    So you don't see a need for professional accreditation? Or wait, you do when you get screwed over by someone who said she/he was something they weren't. The guy shouldn't have said he's an engineer when he isn't.
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Go Beavers said:

    So you don't see a need for professional accreditation? Or wait, you do when you get screwed over by someone who said she/he was something they weren't. The guy shouldn't have said he's an engineer when he isn't.

    So the facts he presented don't matter? You're hung up on a title? He's an electrical engineer but if the government doesn't recognize him as an engineer he isn't? He wasn't operating in any official capacity. He wasn't practicing engineering without a license. He was using math and physics to prove a point and mentioned he was an engineer. Would you have fined him?
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    jeffbr said:

    Go Beavers said:

    So you don't see a need for professional accreditation? Or wait, you do when you get screwed over by someone who said she/he was something they weren't. The guy shouldn't have said he's an engineer when he isn't.

    So the facts he presented don't matter? You're hung up on a title? He's an electrical engineer but if the government doesn't recognize him as an engineer he isn't? He wasn't operating in any official capacity. He wasn't practicing engineering without a license. He was using math and physics to prove a point and mentioned he was an engineer. Would you have fined him?
    The guy was lying. He facts do matter and he should've let the facts speak. He acted unethically, so they were required to respond. If you want subjectivity to be factored into it, that's fine, but it opens the door for corruption and ethics violations on the governments side (which I guess gives people more to complain about). This is a troll thread for the op to reinforce his cemented belief system.
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,391
    jeffbr said:

    Go Beavers said:

    So you don't see a need for professional accreditation? Or wait, you do when you get screwed over by someone who said she/he was something they weren't. The guy shouldn't have said he's an engineer when he isn't.

    So the facts he presented don't matter? You're hung up on a title? He's an electrical engineer but if the government doesn't recognize him as an engineer he isn't? He wasn't operating in any official capacity. He wasn't practicing engineering without a license. He was using math and physics to prove a point and mentioned he was an engineer. Would you have fined him?
    There are two separate issues here - one, the issue being brought up by the self-professed Engineer, and two, the fact that the man chose to incorrectly label himself an Engineer, which then changes it from 'advice' to 'unsolicited consultation'. What if the government, under advisement of a person claiming to be a Professional Engineer, then pushed forward, and a change made led to damages? This is a major liability the government could have incurred just if they had read that and reacted. Claiming the government is evil for pursuing relatively minor corrective actions, is ludicrous and disingenuous.

    Somewhat related, as an Engineering graduate (not an engineer - I stopped practicing half a year into working towards becoming a Professional Engineer) working at my firm, I put 'Engineer' on my title early on, and was told to change it to 'Junior Engineer' to avoid even accidentally misrepresenting myself as a Professional Engineer. Credentials matter. Representing yourself honestly matters when your consultation will lead to potentially dangerous outcomes.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Go Beavers said:

    jeffbr said:

    Go Beavers said:

    So you don't see a need for professional accreditation? Or wait, you do when you get screwed over by someone who said she/he was something they weren't. The guy shouldn't have said he's an engineer when he isn't.

    So the facts he presented don't matter? You're hung up on a title? He's an electrical engineer but if the government doesn't recognize him as an engineer he isn't? He wasn't operating in any official capacity. He wasn't practicing engineering without a license. He was using math and physics to prove a point and mentioned he was an engineer. Would you have fined him?
    The guy was lying. He facts do matter and he should've let the facts speak. He acted unethically, so they were required to respond. If you want subjectivity to be factored into it, that's fine, but it opens the door for corruption and ethics violations on the governments side (which I guess gives people more to complain about). This is a troll thread for the op to reinforce his cemented belief system.
    I do get that. And I probably shouldn't have jumped into this one, but I think the board was playing fast and loose with their "practicing engineering" claim. He took an existing formula, tweaked it, and presented it. That's it. But I also realize he was antagonistic, repeatedly making the "I'm an engineer" claim after they told him to stop. So I'll concede that blame is shared here. I just find the notion distasteful that one is not allowed to mention one's education when making assertions where that educational background may have relevance. He didn't claim to be a Practicing Engineer in the state. The board probably would have been better off just leaving it at "not our jurisdiction" rather than being petty and going after him with a fine.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    jeffbr said:

    Go Beavers said:

    jeffbr said:

    Go Beavers said:

    So you don't see a need for professional accreditation? Or wait, you do when you get screwed over by someone who said she/he was something they weren't. The guy shouldn't have said he's an engineer when he isn't.

    So the facts he presented don't matter? You're hung up on a title? He's an electrical engineer but if the government doesn't recognize him as an engineer he isn't? He wasn't operating in any official capacity. He wasn't practicing engineering without a license. He was using math and physics to prove a point and mentioned he was an engineer. Would you have fined him?
    The guy was lying. He facts do matter and he should've let the facts speak. He acted unethically, so they were required to respond. If you want subjectivity to be factored into it, that's fine, but it opens the door for corruption and ethics violations on the governments side (which I guess gives people more to complain about). This is a troll thread for the op to reinforce his cemented belief system.
    I do get that. And I probably shouldn't have jumped into this one, but I think the board was playing fast and loose with their "practicing engineering" claim. He took an existing formula, tweaked it, and presented it. That's it. But I also realize he was antagonistic, repeatedly making the "I'm an engineer" claim after they told him to stop. So I'll concede that blame is shared here. I just find the notion distasteful that one is not allowed to mention one's education when making assertions where that educational background may have relevance. He didn't claim to be a Practicing Engineer in the state. The board probably would have been better off just leaving it at "not our jurisdiction" rather than being petty and going after him with a fine.
    ...so what you're saying is...
    He was warned. He was given an explanation. Nevertheless, he persisted
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    CM189191 said:

    jeffbr said:

    Go Beavers said:

    jeffbr said:

    Go Beavers said:

    So you don't see a need for professional accreditation? Or wait, you do when you get screwed over by someone who said she/he was something they weren't. The guy shouldn't have said he's an engineer when he isn't.

    So the facts he presented don't matter? You're hung up on a title? He's an electrical engineer but if the government doesn't recognize him as an engineer he isn't? He wasn't operating in any official capacity. He wasn't practicing engineering without a license. He was using math and physics to prove a point and mentioned he was an engineer. Would you have fined him?
    The guy was lying. He facts do matter and he should've let the facts speak. He acted unethically, so they were required to respond. If you want subjectivity to be factored into it, that's fine, but it opens the door for corruption and ethics violations on the governments side (which I guess gives people more to complain about). This is a troll thread for the op to reinforce his cemented belief system.
    I do get that. And I probably shouldn't have jumped into this one, but I think the board was playing fast and loose with their "practicing engineering" claim. He took an existing formula, tweaked it, and presented it. That's it. But I also realize he was antagonistic, repeatedly making the "I'm an engineer" claim after they told him to stop. So I'll concede that blame is shared here. I just find the notion distasteful that one is not allowed to mention one's education when making assertions where that educational background may have relevance. He didn't claim to be a Practicing Engineer in the state. The board probably would have been better off just leaving it at "not our jurisdiction" rather than being petty and going after him with a fine.
    ...so what you're saying is...
    He was warned. He was given an explanation. Nevertheless, he persisted
    Nerds don't wanna hear no.
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    CM189191 said:

    jeffbr said:

    Go Beavers said:

    jeffbr said:

    Go Beavers said:

    So you don't see a need for professional accreditation? Or wait, you do when you get screwed over by someone who said she/he was something they weren't. The guy shouldn't have said he's an engineer when he isn't.

    So the facts he presented don't matter? You're hung up on a title? He's an electrical engineer but if the government doesn't recognize him as an engineer he isn't? He wasn't operating in any official capacity. He wasn't practicing engineering without a license. He was using math and physics to prove a point and mentioned he was an engineer. Would you have fined him?
    The guy was lying. He facts do matter and he should've let the facts speak. He acted unethically, so they were required to respond. If you want subjectivity to be factored into it, that's fine, but it opens the door for corruption and ethics violations on the governments side (which I guess gives people more to complain about). This is a troll thread for the op to reinforce his cemented belief system.
    I do get that. And I probably shouldn't have jumped into this one, but I think the board was playing fast and loose with their "practicing engineering" claim. He took an existing formula, tweaked it, and presented it. That's it. But I also realize he was antagonistic, repeatedly making the "I'm an engineer" claim after they told him to stop. So I'll concede that blame is shared here. I just find the notion distasteful that one is not allowed to mention one's education when making assertions where that educational background may have relevance. He didn't claim to be a Practicing Engineer in the state. The board probably would have been better off just leaving it at "not our jurisdiction" rather than being petty and going after him with a fine.
    ...so what you're saying is...
    He was warned. He was given an explanation. Nevertheless, he persisted
    :lol:
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • InHiding80
    InHiding80 Upland,CA Posts: 7,623
    Big government BAD! (Unless it helps a state discriminate against a minority)
    Big government BAD! (Unless it helps suppress voter turn-out)
    Big government BAD! (Unless it helps women have NO choice)
    Big government BAD! (Unless it helps a business on privacy issue and making a buck)
    Big government BAD! (Unless it helps a business pollute and making a buck)
    Big government BAD! (Unless it regulates predatory lending and making a buck)
    Big government BAD! (Unless it promotes safety of citizens over reasonable gun control, and making a buck)
    Big government BAD! (Unless it allows the rape of our natural resources on public land, and making a buck)

  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    jeffbr said:

    Go Beavers said:

    So you don't see a need for professional accreditation? Or wait, you do when you get screwed over by someone who said she/he was something they weren't. The guy shouldn't have said he's an engineer when he isn't.

    So the facts he presented don't matter? You're hung up on a title? He's an electrical engineer but if the government doesn't recognize him as an engineer he isn't? He wasn't operating in any official capacity. He wasn't practicing engineering without a license. He was using math and physics to prove a point and mentioned he was an engineer. Would you have fined him?
    Only a certified engineer can see that the timing of a yellow light is too short. The rest of us are plebs that are revenue generators for government and are not allowed to question the supremacy of government.
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    unsung said:

    jeffbr said:

    Go Beavers said:

    So you don't see a need for professional accreditation? Or wait, you do when you get screwed over by someone who said she/he was something they weren't. The guy shouldn't have said he's an engineer when he isn't.

    So the facts he presented don't matter? You're hung up on a title? He's an electrical engineer but if the government doesn't recognize him as an engineer he isn't? He wasn't operating in any official capacity. He wasn't practicing engineering without a license. He was using math and physics to prove a point and mentioned he was an engineer. Would you have fined him?
    Only a certified engineer can see that the timing of a yellow light is too short. The rest of us are plebs that are revenue generators for government and are not allowed to question the supremacy of government.
    Let's not rule out that it's another case of an entitled a hole driver trying to justify bad driving.
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,391
    edited April 2017
    unsung said:

    jeffbr said:

    Go Beavers said:

    So you don't see a need for professional accreditation? Or wait, you do when you get screwed over by someone who said she/he was something they weren't. The guy shouldn't have said he's an engineer when he isn't.

    So the facts he presented don't matter? You're hung up on a title? He's an electrical engineer but if the government doesn't recognize him as an engineer he isn't? He wasn't operating in any official capacity. He wasn't practicing engineering without a license. He was using math and physics to prove a point and mentioned he was an engineer. Would you have fined him?
    Only a certified engineer can see that the timing of a yellow light is too short. The rest of us are plebs that are revenue generators for government and are not allowed to question the supremacy of government.
    If you'd read what people are spending the time to write, you'd see that the reality is nothing near the arrogant, elitism you're describing. Plain and simple - if you call yourself an Engineer, then when you give advice on a matter, it can be considered a professional consultation. If an Engineer is giving a professional consultation, heeding that advice without a second opinion could be legal, and the execution of that discussed topic would leave the person/entity who took the advice in a position of liability, in addition to potentially being dangerous. Whether you like them or not (and whether they're used properly or not), regulations and certifications are designed to differentiate between best (and not dangerous) practices, and those that aren't.

    You know what this guy could have done? Sent this exact same thing to the government, without claiming to be a Professional Engineer. You know - since he's not. It would then be up to the government to solicit a second opinion from a Professional Engineer. You know - one who has studied the subject, and has familiarity with the several-thousand pages of Codes, all of which exist for risk mitigation purposes.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,642
    unsung said:

    jeffbr said:

    Go Beavers said:

    So you don't see a need for professional accreditation? Or wait, you do when you get screwed over by someone who said she/he was something they weren't. The guy shouldn't have said he's an engineer when he isn't.

    So the facts he presented don't matter? You're hung up on a title? He's an electrical engineer but if the government doesn't recognize him as an engineer he isn't? He wasn't operating in any official capacity. He wasn't practicing engineering without a license. He was using math and physics to prove a point and mentioned he was an engineer. Would you have fined him?
    Only a certified engineer can see that the timing of a yellow light is too short. The rest of us are plebs that are revenue generators for government and are not allowed to question the supremacy of government.
    I wonder if you'd feel differently if that guy, knowing it's a quick yellow, blew through it and T boned you? But I'm sure your private ambulance would take you to your private hospital where your private doctors would care for you, right? Maybe on a private med flight?
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  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    ....who would enforce slander & libel laws?
    Man puts sign in yard falsely accusing neighbor of being child molester
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,892
    Another example of the title being completely misleading. As others pointed out, he was warned multiple times to stop using that title since he was not registered.
    I cannot send emails to people claiming to be a lawyer and offer legal advise, this is no different.
    He very well may have had good points, but he cannot use a formal title that requires registration and documentation when he has not gone through that process.
    I can offer all the legal advise I want, but as soon as I claim to be a lawyer I get into trouble.
    He can offer all the engineering advice he wants, but as soon as he gives himself a false title of engineer (and without the proper documentation that is what it is, a false title) then that's when he ran into trouble. If he wants to ignore the warnings then fine, but don't complain about the consequences then.
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    CM189191 said:

    ....who would enforce slander & libel laws?
    Man puts sign in yard falsely accusing neighbor of being child molester

    A third party arbitrator could handle that rather easily.

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