Heart broken

HughFreakingDillon · March 2017

I think what's missing here is that people keeping saying BS and LB are lackluster albums. I'd argue that, to the band, they aren't at all. I can't imagine they'd put out a product that they don't believe to be up to their standards. Bands evolve. Bands often have a few fan-disappointing albums at some point, only to later put out an album that they declare to be a "back to our roots" record. But I think, musically, where they are now is exactly where they want to be. Mike said that Sirens was his finest musical achievement. I don't know many fans that would agree with him, but it's HIS music, so if he thinks that, that's it. Ed obviously loves those types of songs too. He's mellowing out musically, save for a few "Mind Your Manners" here and there.

The band is evolving, some like it, some don't. I'd rather that then them churning out Vitalogy over and over again just for the sake of it.

lolobugg · March 2017

we need another "HEYFOXYMOPHANDLEMAMAITSME"
can I get a +1

PJ_Soul · March 2017

HughFreakingDillon said:
I think what's missing here is that people keeping saying BS and LB are lackluster albums. I'd argue that, to the band, they aren't at all. I can't imagine they'd put out a product that they don't believe to be up to their standards. Bands evolve. Bands often have a few fan-disappointing albums at some point, only to later put out an album that they declare to be a "back to our roots" record. But I think, musically, where they are now is exactly where they want to be. Mike said that Sirens was his finest musical achievement. I don't know many fans that would agree with him, but it's HIS music, so if he thinks that, that's it. Ed obviously loves those types of songs too. He's mellowing out musically, save for a few "Mind Your Manners" here and there.

The band is evolving, some like it, some don't. I'd rather that then them churning out Vitalogy over and over again just for the sake of it.

Bands aren't always right about which of their own work is good and isn't good though. I guess it concerns me a little bit as a fan that any members of the band think BS and LB are good albums because it suggests that their musical tastes have devolved (obviously this is a subjective opinion). But yes, it's their music. There is absolutely nothing we can do about them releasing bad albums that they thought were good enough to send to market, aside from not listening to those albums (in whole or in part) and hoping their next one better suits our own individual tastes. C'est la vie! As for not touring this year or when their next album is.... I can't say I care. I totally agree that whatever works for them works for me. There are too many other bands that I can go and see and too many other new albums to enjoy for PJ's lack of activity right now to bother me in the slightest, even though I would be happy to hear they are heading back to the studio to give it the old college try again.

The lucky thing for PJ is that they have a huge enough dedicated fan base to have pretty good modern day sales of their albums even if the album is terrible, lol. I would never not buy a new PJ record, no matter how much I hated it. I can't have that hole in my PJ collection.

Merkin Baller · March 2017

Fair rebuttals Hugh & wnh, I see your points, and they are great points.

I guess I took far too many words to make mine(I tend to do that).

Long story short, I would prefer no new music over mediocre or uninspired new music.

I hate the idea of an artist or a band rushing something just because they feel like they have to. This band is at a point where they shouldn't have to do that. Granted the last 10 years haven't been great for PJ albums, which is maybe all the more reason why they SHOULD take some time off.

Go work with some other artists, go do a side project. Get re-inspired. Hopefully there will be time down the road to write another kickass album and tour off of it.

Not unrelated: Bring on more TOTD dates!!! After the one Philly show I saw, I'm starving for more of that action (anyone who was there knows what I'm talking about - that was fresh & exciting stuff, and the musicians themselves seemed to really be into it - let's see some more of that!!)

HughFreakingDillon · March 2017

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:
I think what's missing here is that people keeping saying BS and LB are lackluster albums. I'd argue that, to the band, they aren't at all. I can't imagine they'd put out a product that they don't believe to be up to their standards. Bands evolve. Bands often have a few fan-disappointing albums at some point, only to later put out an album that they declare to be a "back to our roots" record. But I think, musically, where they are now is exactly where they want to be. Mike said that Sirens was his finest musical achievement. I don't know many fans that would agree with him, but it's HIS music, so if he thinks that, that's it. Ed obviously loves those types of songs too. He's mellowing out musically, save for a few "Mind Your Manners" here and there.

The band is evolving, some like it, some don't. I'd rather that then them churning out Vitalogy over and over again just for the sake of it.
Bands aren't always right about which of their own work is good and isn't good though. I guess it concerns me a little bit as a fan that any members of the band think BS and LB are good albums because it suggests that their musical tastes have devolved (obviously this is a subjective opinion). But yes, it's their music. There is absolutely nothing we can do about them releasing bad albums that they thought were good enough to send to market, aside from not listening to those albums (in whole or in part) and hoping their next one better suits our own individual tastes. C'est la vie! As for not touring this year or when their next album is.... I can't say I care. I totally agree that whatever works for them works for me. There are too many other bands that I can go and see and too many other new albums to enjoy for PJ's lack of activity right now to bother me in the slightest, even though I would be happy to hear they are heading back to the studio to give it the old college try again.

The lucky thing for PJ is that they have a huge enough dedicated fan base to have pretty good modern day sales of their albums even if the album is terrible, lol. I would never not buy a new PJ record, no matter how much I hated it. I can't have that hole in my PJ collection.

well, I guess it depends on your definition of "right". If people are "right" becuase of historical context of their other work, I would disagree.

I actually liked BS, I hate none of the songs, and I like most of the songs off LB, but I can't stand a few. I think LB was a letdown for many b/c people got all hyped up about MYM; it's political, it's hard driving riff....then.....Sirens and Future Days.

I love it when PJ releases a new album; the buzz in the air around here and in my head in general is palpable. But again, like you said, it doesn't dictate my day.

bootlegger10 · March 2017

my2hands said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

my2hands said:

tbergs said:

my2hands said:
and NO
NewJPage said:

my2hands said:

NewJPage said:

my2hands said:

thispureamericanriot said:
So guessing the earliest we could get a new PJ is 2018, that means 5 years in between albums (or longer). That would be the longest wait of their career.
25+ years in... an album every 5 years is probably best case scenario
25 years in neil released Ragged Glory...just saying
I didn't say they couldn't make great records... i just don't expect them very often any more, unfortunately
I hear ya, and I know he's a tough one to compare to. Someone mentioned earlier that the band has become more Stones than Neil, and I was thinking the same thing myself.
At a certain point the Stones found a formula and they have just been repeating it for around 40 years at this point, with less and less time spent on new music and more spent on tours in larger and larger venues. THis sounds much more like PJ than Neil, who releases an album every year that sounds nothing like the album before it, who will play in either arenas or small venues, and is still taking chances at age 71. When was the last time PJ took major chances? They were barely even political last election cycle, and I'm wondering if it was because they didn't want to turn people off. The fact that Trump was mentioned only in passing at Wrigley let me know that the band is a lot different than it used to be.
All that being said, I still enjoy Lightening Bolt overall (more than Backspacer), and hope they can get something going sometime in the next 2 years...
I think this is spot on... I fully expect the next US tour to be a stadium tour

definitely more Rolling Stones than Neil at this point...

Blasphemy! The over-reaction is getting out of control. They have toured somewhere every year since 2008 people. They may not have been extensive tours, but they toured. They can take this whole year off, enjoy their induction as a band and dabble in their side projects. They played two stadiums that make a lot of sense last year. They are not going to become a stadium act. Everyone just chill out.
why is that over reaction or getting out of control?

they are an iconic band and will most definitely be doing stadium tours in their future... that's the natural progression... that doesn't mean they wont play arena tours in the future, but I definitely expect stadium tours, which are very common now by the way... they played Strangest Tribe & Angel at Fenway last year, two of the quietest songs in their catalog... I feel they wanted to see how that went, and it went well, so now they fell they can take their show into larger stadiums and pull it off without having to stick only to the arena cock rock from Ten

the band is in cruise control for the next 20 years whether people like it or not... and we would all do the same thing... thankfully I live in the northeast so I can see them easily
I don't call a high energy 3 hour show cruise control.
Cruise control career wise... i didn't say anything about the quality of their live shows, more the quantity

Definitely been on cruise control since 2007. They figured out the formula. Good for them and good for us traveling fans (we get a small tour every year).

wnh1977 · March 2017

HughFreakingDillon said:
I think what's missing here is that people keeping saying BS and LB are lackluster albums. I'd argue that, to the band, they aren't at all. I can't imagine they'd put out a product that they don't believe to be up to their standards. Bands evolve. Bands often have a few fan-disappointing albums at some point, only to later put out an album that they declare to be a "back to our roots" record. But I think, musically, where they are now is exactly where they want to be. Mike said that Sirens was his finest musical achievement. I don't know many fans that would agree with him, but it's HIS music, so if he thinks that, that's it. Ed obviously loves those types of songs too. He's mellowing out musically, save for a few "Mind Your Manners" here and there.

The band is evolving, some like it, some don't. I'd rather that then them churning out Vitalogy over and over again just for the sake of it.

I agree. Well, except for "Let the Records Play" and "Sleeping By Myself"... those don't qualify as fine musical achievements for anybody.

Take those two off Lightning Bolt and insert a killer studio version of "Of the Earth" and it's probably a top 5 PJ album for me. But back to your point, yes, it would be silly to attempt a regurgitation of Vs. and Vitalogy-era angst all the time. I feel like their music has evolved pretty naturally to this place.

I'm not as disappointed with the last two albums as a lot of people are. I'm basically wishing for something that can't be... I wish the 5 members were putting more time and energy into Pearl Jam, maybe churning out an album every 2 years. I loved going on that ride every couple years... maybe new material blows your mind, maybe it confuses, maybe it misses the mark... but you're going on the ride with them. Nowadays, it's a hell of a long time between rides!! My hopes for more regular new material is the exact opposite of what they've said they want to do at this point. They're at a time in life where being comfortable makes a hell of a lot of sense. Ten, Vs., Vitalogy - what most would argue is this band's high-water mark - were anything but comfortable. A lot to prove, band seemed like their only focus, no kids, etc. An us against the world mentality. But hey, they've earned it. They can do what they want to do, when they want to do it. Doesn't mean people can't have an opinion about it.

I thought, with all the band members being fans since they were little, they would always have a hunger for the process. I thought they'd want to jump back into the studio, create, explore, etc. It seems like it's almost a job for them now.

HughFreakingDillon · March 2017

wnh1977 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:
I think what's missing here is that people keeping saying BS and LB are lackluster albums. I'd argue that, to the band, they aren't at all. I can't imagine they'd put out a product that they don't believe to be up to their standards. Bands evolve. Bands often have a few fan-disappointing albums at some point, only to later put out an album that they declare to be a "back to our roots" record. But I think, musically, where they are now is exactly where they want to be. Mike said that Sirens was his finest musical achievement. I don't know many fans that would agree with him, but it's HIS music, so if he thinks that, that's it. Ed obviously loves those types of songs too. He's mellowing out musically, save for a few "Mind Your Manners" here and there.

The band is evolving, some like it, some don't. I'd rather that then them churning out Vitalogy over and over again just for the sake of it.
I agree. Well, except for "Let the Records Play" and "Sleeping By Myself"... those don't qualify as fine musical achievements for anybody. Take those two off Lightning Bolt and insert a killer studio version of "Of the Earth" and it's probably a top 5 PJ album for me. But back to your point, yes, it would be silly to attempt a regurgitation of Vs. and Vitalogy-era angst all the time. I feel like their music has evolved pretty naturally to this place.

I'm not as disappointed with the last two albums as a lot of people are. I'm basically wishing for something that can't be... I wish the 5 members were putting more time and energy into Pearl Jam, maybe churning out an album every 2 years. I loved going on that ride every couple years... maybe new material blows your mind, maybe it confuses, maybe it misses the mark... but you're going on the ride with them. Nowadays, it's a hell of a long time between rides!! My hopes for more regular new material is the exact opposite of what they've said they want to do at this point. They're at a time in life where being comfortable makes a hell of a lot of sense. Ten, Vs., Vitalogy - what most would argue is this band's high-water mark - were anything but comfortable. A lot to prove, band seemed like their only focus, no kids, etc. An us against the world mentality. But hey, they've earned it. They can do what they want to do, when they want to do it. Doesn't mean people can't have an opinion about it.

I thought, with all the band members being fans since they were little, they would always have a hunger for the process. I thought they'd want to jump back into the studio, create, explore, etc. It seems like it's almost a job for them now.

I wouldn't call it a job. they don't need the money, so I"m pretty sure the day it becomes a job to them they'll call it quits. I think they just know they don't NEED to do it, so they do it when time permits.

Ever try to get 5 people in their 40's or 50's together for a night out? it can take my wife and I weeks, even months to find common dates to get our friends together.

how about you put those people living in different states, tell them the night out is 3 months away from friends and family, preceded by a massive project that includes writing and arranging songs, getting artwork done, promotional materials together, starting up THE MACHINE, and it's not as easy as getting a bunch of 5 angry 20 somethings that just want to do SOMETHING because there's nothing else in their lives right now that means anything.

I don't think the band has changed to them. Everything else in life has. Maybe they realize how silly it is to put "being in a rock band" ahead of building skate parks for at-risk youth, or working with Crohn's and Colitis, or being there for your kids, etc etc.

As a 42 year old musician who has never toured, and thinks I would have loved to at 22 but hated to at 42, I can relate to that.

PJ_Soul · March 2017

^^^ That's true. People with kids are impossible to wrangle. I don't have any, so I'm always ready to go at the drop of a hat, but all my friends have young children, so even though I've got all the freedom in the world and an open schedule, I still have to make all my social plans at least a month ahead of time, sometimes more, to accommodate all of these people's crazy-ass calendars .... It's one of the reasons I never wanted kids.

Ninetytworules · March 2017

Don't worry they are playing in 2017. Chelios is just being cute. Year is up in August. You tube has confirmed.

DarthMaeglin · March 2017

Proof that one person's trash is another's gold, lol. Personally I've felt that BS and LB showed a growth and maturity in their songwriting and lyrics (actually, it goes back to Into The Wild, but that's EV solo, so doesn't really count, lol).

So, basically, everyone commenting here is right, I think there's a saying about opinions that might apply, lol...

dimitrispearljam · March 2017

hmmmm..seems world tour next year coming...what ever "world" means to pj,cos aint playing to all continents..
gonna need ton of money next year..

mookeywrench · March 2017

dimitrispearljam said:
hmmmm..seems world tour next year coming...what ever "world" means to pj,cos aint playing to all continents..
gonna need ton of money next year..

Not Jeff or Matt, they can start taking retirement distributions penalty free next year!

Merkin Baller · March 2017

DarthMaeglin said:
Proof that one person's trash is another's gold, lol. Personally I've felt that BS and LB showed a growth and maturity in their songwriting and lyrics (actually, it goes back to Into The Wild, but that's EV solo, so doesn't really count, lol).

So, basically, everyone commenting here is right, I think there's a saying about opinions that might apply, lol...

Spot on, it's all subjective.

FWIW, I think there are some gems on LB and I don't hate BS, they just aren't my favorite albums by the band. It is what it is.

PJ_Soul · March 2017

We all already know it's all subjective, right? Safe assumption, I don't see why everyone has to keep qualifying what could only be an opinion in the first place. What else would it be?

my2hands · March 2017

Part time band with full time fans

rustneversleeps · March 2017

HughFreakingDillon said:
so now the band doesn't like each other? jesus, I thought I had heard everything on this forum. people have this romantic idea that band members need to hang out and be best friends, even 25 years in. that's just not feasible. people change, circumstances change, passions change; are you best friends with the same 4 people for a quarter century? I'm not. creative outlet or not, the same group of 5 people just don't remain a gang of best friends for that long. I'm sure they still love making music together, but they also love doing other things, and there's nothing wrong with that. And I'd rather them get together every few years to make great music together than get together every year to make sub-par music together that they aren't excited about. The live show would SUCK.

im proud to say myself and my closest friends have been raising hell since 1st grade. nothing has changed between us in over 30 years. so i have to say youre wrong with this highlighted statement. but i agree, we are a rare breed.

rgambs · March 2017

The Backspacer and Lighting Bolt hate gets out of hand around here, if Sirens was on Vitalogy I bet everyone would love it!

PJ_Soul · March 2017

Agreed. I have lost and gained many friends over the years, but I do have one small core group who have been close friends for 20 years and counting. I can't see us ever not being friends.
Although I never thought the band were all best friends. When they talk about each other they refer to feeling like they are like family, and also work together, which really isn't the same thing as 5 BFFs.

2-feign-reluctance · March 2017

So who's gonna win the game of 'I'm the most right?'

Heart broken

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