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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Free said:

    benjs said:

    Free said:

    I didn't say you were flawed, I said you seem cynical.

    Most people will take having a "character issue" to imply a flaw. In any case, cynics believe that people are inherently disingenuous, and I don't believe people calling for change are disingenuous whatsoever. Thus, I am not a cynic. I am logical, however, and the logic I presented which you haven't refuted in any meaningful way, suggests to me that I should be skeptical of the potential for change.

    When protesters can successfully identify efforts which will lead to impact (and "protests will create change" isn't enough - the causality must be explained, along with the steps in the middle), then logic will dictate that I should be hopeful that people will put in those efforts. Until then, I might as well run down the streets screaming "Trump is mean" while cartwheeling naked except for underwear on my head. The results will be the same as sending emails to Nancy Pelosi asking if she'll pretty please progressively reform the DNC, and with it surrender the lobbyist dollars she pockets personally.

    By the way - I'm still actively trying to come up with the answers to these questions I'm posing to you too. We're after the same thing, I'm just not going to be hopeful unless my hopefulness is aligned with my logic.
    Cynical.


    :lol:
    as many people have realized, @benjs, not worth your time.
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Free
    Free Posts: 3,562
    Why don't we just admit that most here are cynics. It's not necessarily a bad thing thing, though never seeing the positive side of things does affect our own emotional well-being. Kudos to Hugh for jumping in, you never fail.
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Would the media and so many be as hysterical about Trump if the democrats controlled the senate, or the house, or both or if there wasnt a supreme justice appointment or two (in the future)?
    I am going to say probably not. I think much of the hysteria stems from the erosion of checks and balances, the increase in presidential (empirical) power over the last 16 years plus a republican house and senate (and soon to be conservative majority SC).
    2017 Trump presidency is effectively King Emperor Trump. That is scary!
    So who is at fault for allowing this to happen?
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Free said:

    Why don't we just admit that most here are cynics. It's not necessarily a bad thing thing, though never seeing the positive side of things does affect our own emotional well-being. Kudos to Hugh for jumping in, you never fail.

    it's not cynical to realize that the changes you are suggesting basically try to undo hundreds of years of political evolution is tantamount to turning off the sun.
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    JC29856 said:

    Would the media and so many be as hysterical about Trump if the democrats controlled the senate, or the house, or both or if there wasnt a supreme justice appointment or two (in the future)?
    I am going to say probably not. I think much of the hysteria stems from the erosion of checks and balances, the increase in presidential (empirical) power over the last 16 years plus a republican house and senate (and soon to be conservative majority SC).
    2017 Trump presidency is effectively King Emperor Trump. That is scary!
    So who is at fault for allowing this to happen?

    What do you think? Of course you don't think it was the folks who made an obsession over smearing Clinton with every real and perceived bit of ammunition they could imagine, or the folks who voted for unicorn candidates...
    So who is at fault?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Free
    Free Posts: 3,562
    edited January 2017
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Free said:

    Why don't we just admit that most here are cynics. It's not necessarily a bad thing thing, though never seeing the positive side of things does affect our own emotional well-being. Kudos to Hugh for jumping in, you never fail.

    it's not cynical to realize that the changes you are suggesting basically try to undo hundreds of years of political evolution is tantamount to turning off the sun.
    Really now, you and Ben must not of seen this. It's already started.
    But continue to be cynical. Do you have any ideas that solve??

    Progressives launch ‘Justice Democrats’ to counter party’s ‘corporate’ legislators

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/01/23/progressives-launch-justice-democrats-to-counter-primary-corporate-legislators/?utm_term=.4b227388cf11#comments
    Post edited by Free on
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,367
    Free said:

    benjs said:

    Free said:

    I didn't say you were flawed, I said you seem cynical.

    Most people will take having a "character issue" to imply a flaw. In any case, cynics believe that people are inherently disingenuous, and I don't believe people calling for change are disingenuous whatsoever. Thus, I am not a cynic. I am logical, however, and the logic I presented which you haven't refuted in any meaningful way, suggests to me that I should be skeptical of the potential for change.

    When protesters can successfully identify efforts which will lead to impact (and "protests will create change" isn't enough - the causality must be explained, along with the steps in the middle), then logic will dictate that I should be hopeful that people will put in those efforts. Until then, I might as well run down the streets screaming "Trump is mean" while cartwheeling naked except for underwear on my head. The results will be the same as sending emails to Nancy Pelosi asking if she'll pretty please progressively reform the DNC, and with it surrender the lobbyist dollars she pockets personally.

    By the way - I'm still actively trying to come up with the answers to these questions I'm posing to you too. We're after the same thing, I'm just not going to be hopeful unless my hopefulness is aligned with my logic.
    Cynical.


    :lol:
    As I explained above, that's factually inaccurate. Apparently you'd like to live in the post-truth era too, where emotions govern rather than logic. You call me cynical, I explain to you what cynical means and why my frame of mind isn't cynical, you call me cynical once again. You also refuse to address any of my questions, instead choosing to reiterate that I'm either deflective or deflective.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    edited January 2017
    Free said:


    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Free said:

    Why don't we just admit that most here are cynics. It's not necessarily a bad thing thing, though never seeing the positive side of things does affect our own emotional well-being. Kudos to Hugh for jumping in, you never fail.

    it's not cynical to realize that the changes you are suggesting basically try to undo hundreds of years of political evolution is tantamount to turning off the sun.
    Really now, you and Ben must not of seen this. It's already started.
    But continue to be cynical. Do you have any ideas that solve??

    Progressives launch ‘Justice Democrats’ to counter party’s ‘corporate’ legislators

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/01/23/progressives-launch-justice-democrats-to-counter-primary-corporate-legislators/?utm_term=.4b227388cf11#comments
    plenty, and have stated them several times over the years. but you don't want to hear any of them unless they align with whatever mystery propositions you hold but don't want to divulge. because you have annointed yourself the "teacher" here, who asks the questions and how dare anyone question your questions.

    you're not interested in discussion, all you want is validation. later.
    Post edited by HughFreakingDillon on
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Free
    Free Posts: 3,562
    Goodbye.
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,555
    Free said:

    Why don't we just admit that most here are cynics. It's not necessarily a bad thing thing, though never seeing the positive side of things does affect our own emotional well-being. Kudos to Hugh for jumping in, you never fail.

    I'm optimistic. In fact, yesterday when I said things were better now than they used to be and we aren't trending downward, you were one of the people who disagreed with me.
  • Free
    Free Posts: 3,562
    Go Beavers said:

    Free said:

    Why don't we just admit that most here are cynics. It's not necessarily a bad thing thing, though never seeing the positive side of things does affect our own emotional well-being. Kudos to Hugh for jumping in, you never fail.

    I'm optimistic. In fact, yesterday when I said things were better now than they used to be and we aren't trending downward, you were one of the people who disagreed with me.
    Being optimistic with a trump presidency when he's already showed us how bad he really is, along with the other billionaires he's appointed who aren't really qualified for their positions? I admit I do hope for the best here, but after the last few days of the Trump presidency? For realz, Dude? Unless of course, you voted for him. Then I can understand your optimism.
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    haha. so you're an optimist in one post, and a cynic the next. nicely done!
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Free
    Free Posts: 3,562
    edited January 2017
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    haha. so you're an optimist in one post, and a cynic the next. nicely done!

    Gee, The part about being hopeful really makes me a cynic, ok.

    I thought you were leaving?
    Post edited by Free on
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Free said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    haha. so you're an optimist in one post, and a cynic the next. nicely done!

    Gee, The part about being hopeful really makes me a cynic, ok.

    I thought you were leaving?
    you mocked go beavers for being optimistic. it's right there in black and white.

    did I say I was leaving?
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited January 2017
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Free said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    haha. so you're an optimist in one post, and a cynic the next. nicely done!

    Gee, The part about being hopeful really makes me a cynic, ok.

    I thought you were leaving?
    you mocked go beavers for being optimistic. it's right there in black and white.

    did I say I was leaving?
    I believe it was in November when you said something to the effect of
    Well, I'm outa here. My member ship runs out in exactly two weeks and I've opted out of renewal
    and then you posted something later about being sucked back into a vortex of bullshit, out
    Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Free said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    haha. so you're an optimist in one post, and a cynic the next. nicely done!

    Gee, The part about being hopeful really makes me a cynic, ok.

    I thought you were leaving?
    you mocked go beavers for being optimistic. it's right there in black and white.

    did I say I was leaving?
    I believe it was in November when you said something to the effect of
    Well, I'm outa here. My member ship runs out in exactly two weeks and I've opted out of renewal
    and then you posted something later about being sucked back into a vortex of bullshit, out
    What does this have to do with the Democratic Party? Stick to the topic.
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,555
    Free said:

    Go Beavers said:

    Free said:

    Why don't we just admit that most here are cynics. It's not necessarily a bad thing thing, though never seeing the positive side of things does affect our own emotional well-being. Kudos to Hugh for jumping in, you never fail.

    I'm optimistic. In fact, yesterday when I said things were better now than they used to be and we aren't trending downward, you were one of the people who disagreed with me.
    Being optimistic with a trump presidency when he's already showed us how bad he really is, along with the other billionaires he's appointed who aren't really qualified for their positions? I admit I do hope for the best here, but after the last few days of the Trump presidency? For realz, Dude? Unless of course, you voted for him. Then I can understand your optimism.
    You just said you were optimistic, now you're on me for being optimistic? Trump will be a set back or regression that we'll recover from. Right now I'm hopeful for resistance and damage control.
  • Free
    Free Posts: 3,562
    Go Beavers said:

    Free said:

    Go Beavers said:

    Free said:

    Why don't we just admit that most here are cynics. It's not necessarily a bad thing thing, though never seeing the positive side of things does affect our own emotional well-being. Kudos to Hugh for jumping in, you never fail.

    I'm optimistic. In fact, yesterday when I said things were better now than they used to be and we aren't trending downward, you were one of the people who disagreed with me.
    Being optimistic with a trump presidency when he's already showed us how bad he really is, along with the other billionaires he's appointed who aren't really qualified for their positions? I admit I do hope for the best here, but after the last few days of the Trump presidency? For realz, Dude? Unless of course, you voted for him. Then I can understand your optimism.
    You just said you were optimistic, now you're on me for being optimistic? Trump will be a set back or regression that we'll recover from. Right now I'm hopeful for resistance and damage control.
    Let's hope you're right.
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    edited January 2017
    Half the battle is just showing up!

    Democrats have been creamed over the last eight years, losing some 935 state legislative seats during the Obama era. In 2017, it is focusing its efforts on Virginia and North Carolina, two places where Democratic gains at the state level (the party controls the governor's mansion in both states) are undercut by conservative legislatures. In Virginia, a blue state in the last three presidential elections, Democrats have failed even to show up in some races: 44 of the state's 67 Republican delegates ran unopposed in 2015, including three Republicans in districts carried by Hillary Clinton. Democrats have a long way to go to recoup what they lost, but they've also left a lot of low-hanging fruit on the vine.

    http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2017/01/democrats-candidate-recruitment-run-for-something
    Post edited by JC29856 on
  • Free
    Free Posts: 3,562
    edited January 2017
    This isn't new news, but...

    "Democrats are down to 192 members of Congress. Under President Obama, Democrats have lost 900+ state legislature seats, 12 governors, 69 House seats, 13 Senate seats. That's some legacy. Under President Obama, Democrats have lost over 900 state legislature seats, 12 governors, 69 House seats, 13 Senate seats.Nov 9, 2016".

    https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&ei=ShCKWIugK4SYmQH_9ZHwDQ&q=democrats+lost+how+many+seats&oq=democrats+lost+how+&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.1.0.0j0i22i30k1l2.35719.39927.0.40794.18.17.1.0.0.0.349.2744.1j13j2j1.17.0....0...1c.1.64.mobile-gws-serp..4.14.1937...41j33i160k1j0i22i10i30k1.pl0BcDoyWLg

    What is the answer Dems? You can insult me all you want for stating the obvious, but what can be done about the party? It's failing the people.
    Post edited by Free on

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