Police abuse
Comments
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Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
To some degree I would agree. But you would also have to agree that in the moment, exercising too much patience might cost you your life.Cliffy6745 said:
What is considered enough of a threat to kill someone? Honest question. I would argue until someone walking away from you with their hands up towards a car does something sudden or reaches, that is not enough to kill someone. The officers sign up for that threat the first day they show up at the academy and you can't kill someone the second you get scared.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Question time. Great!Go Beavers said:
Do you know what probable cause is?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No.unsung said:
Are you serious?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
People should be allowed to tell cops to go stuff it up their hairy as**s. Why should we have to listen to them?Go Beavers said:So....apprently you can be executed if you don't follow orders from police, even when you are a threat to no one.
I find the idea that cops should just let people go on whatever terms they dictate... when they don't feel like being detained... is completely absurd.
It's not that gawddamn hard to comply. You're tempting fate when you don't.
Answer: yes
Question: do you understand the threat officers face in the line of duty?
We sit on the sidelines and speak to this topic. It's easy to armchair quarterback.
I'd say this: it's far easier to comply with simple orders than it is to discern threat.
I don't disagree with that, but you are being paid for that patience... that is part of the job description.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
To some degree I would agree. But you would also have to agree that in the moment, exercising too much patience might cost you your life.Cliffy6745 said:
What is considered enough of a threat to kill someone? Honest question. I would argue until someone walking away from you with their hands up towards a car does something sudden or reaches, that is not enough to kill someone. The officers sign up for that threat the first day they show up at the academy and you can't kill someone the second you get scared.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Question time. Great!Go Beavers said:
Do you know what probable cause is?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No.unsung said:
Are you serious?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
People should be allowed to tell cops to go stuff it up their hairy as**s. Why should we have to listen to them?Go Beavers said:So....apprently you can be executed if you don't follow orders from police, even when you are a threat to no one.
I find the idea that cops should just let people go on whatever terms they dictate... when they don't feel like being detained... is completely absurd.
It's not that gawddamn hard to comply. You're tempting fate when you don't.
Answer: yes
Question: do you understand the threat officers face in the line of duty?
We sit on the sidelines and speak to this topic. It's easy to armchair quarterback.
I'd say this: it's far easier to comply with simple orders than it is to discern threat.
Of course. It is very easy. I have said this a number of times but every night one of my best friends in the world puts on a blue uniform and heads to the hood in philly to see shit no one should ever see. She and I do not agree on everything police related, but I certainly understand what she goes through on a nightly basis. She was out of work for almost a year after being beat up by dude out of his mind and has won numerous awards.0 -
i get this sentiment but who says it was a shot to kill? i mean if she hit him in the head yea i'd say that was a shot to kill but you can die from a shot anywhere depending on what the bullet hits. a shot to the arm can still kill if hits the right spot but a shot to the arm is not necessarily a shot to kill.Cliffy6745 said:
What is considered enough of a threat to kill someone? Honest question. I would argue until someone walking away from you with their hands up towards a car does something sudden or reaches, that is not enough to kill someone. The officers sign up for that threat the first day they show up at the academy and you can't kill someone the second you get scared.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Question time. Great!Go Beavers said:
Do you know what probable cause is?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No.unsung said:
Are you serious?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
People should be allowed to tell cops to go stuff it up their hairy as**s. Why should we have to listen to them?Go Beavers said:So....apprently you can be executed if you don't follow orders from police, even when you are a threat to no one.
I find the idea that cops should just let people go on whatever terms they dictate... when they don't feel like being detained... is completely absurd.
It's not that gawddamn hard to comply. You're tempting fate when you don't.
Answer: yes
Question: do you understand the threat officers face in the line of duty?0 -
Where did she shoot him? How many times? I don't know enough about this story to comment too much.pjhawks said:
i get this sentiment but who says it was a shot to kill? i mean if she hit him in the head yea i'd say that was a shot to kill but you can die from a shot anywhere depending on what the bullet hits. a shot to the arm can still kill if hits the right spot but a shot to the arm is not necessarily a shot to kill.Cliffy6745 said:
What is considered enough of a threat to kill someone? Honest question. I would argue until someone walking away from you with their hands up towards a car does something sudden or reaches, that is not enough to kill someone. The officers sign up for that threat the first day they show up at the academy and you can't kill someone the second you get scared.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Question time. Great!Go Beavers said:
Do you know what probable cause is?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No.unsung said:
Are you serious?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
People should be allowed to tell cops to go stuff it up their hairy as**s. Why should we have to listen to them?Go Beavers said:So....apprently you can be executed if you don't follow orders from police, even when you are a threat to no one.
I find the idea that cops should just let people go on whatever terms they dictate... when they don't feel like being detained... is completely absurd.
It's not that gawddamn hard to comply. You're tempting fate when you don't.
Answer: yes
Question: do you understand the threat officers face in the line of duty?0 -
Most definitions would be fear of death or great injury to you or someone else. Most cases walking away would not count as a great threat, but if you had reason to believe there was a weapon in the car he was walking toward, that could easily be argued (not saying there just, just answering the question).Cliffy6745 said:
What is considered enough of a threat to kill someone? Honest question. I would argue until someone walking away from you with their hands up towards a car does something sudden or reaches, that is not enough to kill someone. The officers sign up for that threat the first day they show up at the academy and you can't kill someone the second you get scared.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Question time. Great!Go Beavers said:
Do you know what probable cause is?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No.unsung said:
Are you serious?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
People should be allowed to tell cops to go stuff it up their hairy as**s. Why should we have to listen to them?Go Beavers said:So....apprently you can be executed if you don't follow orders from police, even when you are a threat to no one.
I find the idea that cops should just let people go on whatever terms they dictate... when they don't feel like being detained... is completely absurd.
It's not that gawddamn hard to comply. You're tempting fate when you don't.
Answer: yes
Question: do you understand the threat officers face in the line of duty?
It is very difficult to prove what a person was feeling. In many cases, officer or civilian, it is the first few sentences in the statement given that determines the level of threat. Two exact same scenarios may have 2 different outcomes based on the person's statement. One person breaks into a house, the owner says "I was so scared, even though he turned around I just had this feeling he was coming back and all I could think about were my kids upstairs so I just I shot." He may get away with it. The next person may say "My house was broken in last week and I know it was him, he wasn't going to break into my house ever again!" probably would be charged with murder. I've seen cases where someone shot in the back and no charges were filed, and some where they were shot in the front and he was charged with murder.
I had a friend who thought some local kids were breaking into his house. He used some racial slurs describing how he would protect himself and I told him if it comes to that, don't use any of those words. It could even be language like that that would sway a prosecutor that you weren't really in fear but acted out of anger, even though they were breaking into your house.0 -
Police officers are trained when in a situation where their lives are threatened they shoot center mass. When they squeeze that trigger the intent is to kill. Yes, it is true a shot just about anywhere on the body can kill ex: the Redskin player that was shot in his leg in his home. The bullet hit a major artery and he quickly bled to death. In this situation it appears the victim suffered chest wounds, the officer appeared to be shooting to kill as she is trained to do.pjhawks said:
i get this sentiment but who says it was a shot to kill? i mean if she hit him in the head yea i'd say that was a shot to kill but you can die from a shot anywhere depending on what the bullet hits. a shot to the arm can still kill if hits the right spot but a shot to the arm is not necessarily a shot to kill.Cliffy6745 said:
What is considered enough of a threat to kill someone? Honest question. I would argue until someone walking away from you with their hands up towards a car does something sudden or reaches, that is not enough to kill someone. The officers sign up for that threat the first day they show up at the academy and you can't kill someone the second you get scared.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Question time. Great!Go Beavers said:
Do you know what probable cause is?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No.unsung said:
Are you serious?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
People should be allowed to tell cops to go stuff it up their hairy as**s. Why should we have to listen to them?Go Beavers said:So....apprently you can be executed if you don't follow orders from police, even when you are a threat to no one.
I find the idea that cops should just let people go on whatever terms they dictate... when they don't feel like being detained... is completely absurd.
It's not that gawddamn hard to comply. You're tempting fate when you don't.
Answer: yes
Question: do you understand the threat officers face in the line of duty?
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)0 -
They are also not allowed to "shoot to injure" in a sense. A gun is considered lethal force, and in no way are you suppose to use lethal force unless you are intending to kill. If you don't want to kill someone, use some other means than lethal force. A cop would be fired and charged with a crime if he admitted to shooting someone in the leg with intentions to just injure him because he was running away.g under p said:
Police officers are trained when in a situation where their lives are threatened they shoot center mass. When they squeeze that trigger the intent is to kill. Yes, it is true a shot just about anywhere on the body can kill ex: the Redskin player that was shot in his leg in his home. The bullet hit a major artery and he quickly bled to death. In this situation it appears the victim suffered chest wounds, the officer appeared to be shooting to kill as she is trained to do.pjhawks said:
i get this sentiment but who says it was a shot to kill? i mean if she hit him in the head yea i'd say that was a shot to kill but you can die from a shot anywhere depending on what the bullet hits. a shot to the arm can still kill if hits the right spot but a shot to the arm is not necessarily a shot to kill.Cliffy6745 said:
What is considered enough of a threat to kill someone? Honest question. I would argue until someone walking away from you with their hands up towards a car does something sudden or reaches, that is not enough to kill someone. The officers sign up for that threat the first day they show up at the academy and you can't kill someone the second you get scared.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Question time. Great!Go Beavers said:
Do you know what probable cause is?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No.unsung said:
Are you serious?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
People should be allowed to tell cops to go stuff it up their hairy as**s. Why should we have to listen to them?Go Beavers said:So....apprently you can be executed if you don't follow orders from police, even when you are a threat to no one.
I find the idea that cops should just let people go on whatever terms they dictate... when they don't feel like being detained... is completely absurd.
It's not that gawddamn hard to comply. You're tempting fate when you don't.
Answer: yes
Question: do you understand the threat officers face in the line of duty?
Peace
This question came up before and many thought it didn't make sense to not try and injure first. But it is a really good thing, you don't want people going around using lethal force with the intentions to just injure. If you pull the trigger you need to have enough reason to justify killing someone.
Which is why I don't get those complaints about how many times someone was shot. My thoughts are if you pull the trigger once you must want the person dead otherwise don't shoot, so may as well pull it 14 more times.Post edited by mace1229 on0 -
I imagine the cop who shot the guy walking to his car felt threatened, the problem is, due to prejudice blacks are perceived as a greater threat. If he was white, more likely other reasons go through their brain: he's on drugs, he's psychotic, he is deaf etc.mace1229 said:
Most definitions would be fear of death or great injury to you or someone else. Most cases walking away would not count as a great threat, but if you had reason to believe there was a weapon in the car he was walking toward, that could easily be argued (not saying there just, just answering the question).Cliffy6745 said:
What is considered enough of a threat to kill someone? Honest question. I would argue until someone walking away from you with their hands up towards a car does something sudden or reaches, that is not enough to kill someone. The officers sign up for that threat the first day they show up at the academy and you can't kill someone the second you get scared.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Question time. Great!Go Beavers said:
Do you know what probable cause is?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No.unsung said:
Are you serious?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
People should be allowed to tell cops to go stuff it up their hairy as**s. Why should we have to listen to them?Go Beavers said:So....apprently you can be executed if you don't follow orders from police, even when you are a threat to no one.
I find the idea that cops should just let people go on whatever terms they dictate... when they don't feel like being detained... is completely absurd.
It's not that gawddamn hard to comply. You're tempting fate when you don't.
Answer: yes
Question: do you understand the threat officers face in the line of duty?
It is very difficult to prove what a person was feeling. In many cases, officer or civilian, it is the first few sentences in the statement given that determines the level of threat. Two exact same scenarios may have 2 different outcomes based on the person's statement. One person breaks into a house, the owner says "I was so scared, even though he turned around I just had this feeling he was coming back and all I could think about were my kids upstairs so I just I shot." He may get away with it. The next person may say "My house was broken in last week and I know it was him, he wasn't going to break into my house ever again!" probably would be charged with murder. I've seen cases where someone shot in the back and no charges were filed, and some where they were shot in the front and he was charged with murder.
I had a friend who thought some local kids were breaking into his house. He used some racial slurs describing how he would protect himself and I told him if it comes to that, don't use any of those words. It could even be language like that that would sway a prosecutor that you weren't really in fear but acted out of anger, even though they were breaking into your house.0 -
I would agree with all of what you said....language, words used to describe situations can make a case or not.mace1229 said:
Most definitions would be fear of death or great injury to you or someone else. Most cases walking away would not count as a great threat, but if you had reason to believe there was a weapon in the car he was walking toward, that could easily be argued (not saying there just, just answering the question).Cliffy6745 said:
What is considered enough of a threat to kill someone? Honest question. I would argue until someone walking away from you with their hands up towards a car does something sudden or reaches, that is not enough to kill someone. The officers sign up for that threat the first day they show up at the academy and you can't kill someone the second you get scared.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Question time. Great!Go Beavers said:
Do you know what probable cause is?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
No.unsung said:
Are you serious?Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
People should be allowed to tell cops to go stuff it up their hairy as**s. Why should we have to listen to them?Go Beavers said:So....apprently you can be executed if you don't follow orders from police, even when you are a threat to no one.
I find the idea that cops should just let people go on whatever terms they dictate... when they don't feel like being detained... is completely absurd.
It's not that gawddamn hard to comply. You're tempting fate when you don't.
Answer: yes
Question: do you understand the threat officers face in the line of duty?
It is very difficult to prove what a person was feeling. In many cases, officer or civilian, it is the first few sentences in the statement given that determines the level of threat. Two exact same scenarios may have 2 different outcomes based on the person's statement. One person breaks into a house, the owner says "I was so scared, even though he turned around I just had this feeling he was coming back and all I could think about were my kids upstairs so I just I shot." He may get away with it. The next person may say "My house was broken in last week and I know it was him, he wasn't going to break into my house ever again!" probably would be charged with murder. I've seen cases where someone shot in the back and no charges were filed, and some where they were shot in the front and he was charged with murder.
I had a friend who thought some local kids were breaking into his house. He used some racial slurs describing how he would protect himself and I told him if it comes to that, don't use any of those words. It could even be language like that that would sway a prosecutor that you weren't really in fear but acted out of anger, even though they were breaking into your house.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)0 -
I didn't catch this Tulsa shooting. Was the man not following orders? Going back to flee?Going back to get a weapon?
Any details yet?
I read the officer was placed on administrative leave and pay I believe during the pending investigation.
Female officer?Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.0 -
unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487Paid vacation.0 -
Okay...
1. Cops stop at an unusual site: a suv is parked directly in the middle of a two way, single lane highway.
2. A man approaches the officers, but when they (she) issues commands... he ignores them and walks to his suv.
3. He continues to ignore them and reaches into his suv for something.
4. Cops shoot.
Does this sum it up about right?"My brain's a good brain!"0 -
unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487So he was murdered. Got it.0
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Except his windows were up.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Okay...
1. Cops stop at an unusual site: a suv is parked directly in the middle of a two way, single lane highway.
2. A man approaches the officers, but when they (she) issues commands... he ignores them and walks to his suv.
3. He continues to ignore them and reaches into his suv for something.
4. Cops shoot.
Does this sum it up about right?
"He is a bad dude" from 75 feet in the air.Post edited by JC29856 on0 -
I'm not necessarily suggesting that. I'm saying there's a little more to this than 'white woman cop gets a black guy'.unsung said:So he was murdered. Got it.
I mean... the cop bashers have been really quick out of the gates on this one- somebody even cited the helicopter pilot's commentary as evidence to complicity.
Somebody also said his hands were up and they shot him in the back. The video I saw was as I described and his hands were not up- they were reaching into his vehicle.
One cop shot a taser and the woman cop shot her gun at the same time. Something triggered a response. Optic wise... it's not a clear cut case of cop abuse. I would say that with four cops there... non lethal methods should have been exercised (as the one cop that shot his taser attempted); however, with that said... just stop f**king with the police. Maybe he did exactly what they told him to do and they shot him anyways. But maybe, in that odd scenario, he acted in such a way that the officers on the scene grew taut. In that case, it's not murder as much as it is overreacting to the possibility of a threat."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
All accounts say he was reaching inside his vehicle. Can you please direct me to this piece? If true... that changes my perspective.JC29856 said:
Except his windows were up.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Okay...
1. Cops stop at an unusual site: a suv is parked directly in the middle of a two way, single lane highway.
2. A man approaches the officers, but when they (she) issues commands... he ignores them and walks to his suv.
3. He continues to ignore them and reaches into his suv for something.
4. Cops shoot.
Does this sum it up about right?"My brain's a good brain!"0 -
Correction: you mean from the cops account not all accounts. Also, she shoots him and they then let him lay there to die, as usual.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
All accounts say he was reaching inside his vehicle. Can you please direct me to this piece? If true... that changes my perspective.JC29856 said:
Except his windows were up.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Okay...
1. Cops stop at an unusual site: a suv is parked directly in the middle of a two way, single lane highway.
2. A man approaches the officers, but when they (she) issues commands... he ignores them and walks to his suv.
3. He continues to ignore them and reaches into his suv for something.
4. Cops shoot.
Does this sum it up about right?
Not that this has anything to do with this case but cop has two other excessive force complaints and has been disciplined for drawing fire arm.0 -
Murder is often an overreaction to a perceived threat.0
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unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
You might not be but I am.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
I'm not necessarily suggesting that. I'm saying there's a little more to this than 'white woman cop gets a black guy'.unsung said:So he was murdered. Got it.
I mean... the cop bashers have been really quick out of the gates on this one- somebody even cited the helicopter pilot's commentary as evidence to complicity.
Somebody also said his hands were up and they shot him in the back. The video I saw was as I described and his hands were not up- they were reaching into his vehicle.
One cop shot a taser and the woman cop shot her gun at the same time. Something triggered a response. Optic wise... it's not a clear cut case of cop abuse. I would say that with four cops there... non lethal methods should have been exercised (as the one cop that shot his taser attempted); however, with that said... just stop f**king with the police. Maybe he did exactly what they told him to do and they shot him anyways. But maybe, in that odd scenario, he acted in such a way that the officers on the scene grew taut. In that case, it's not murder as much as it is overreacting to the possibility of a threat.0 -
http://www.theroot.com/articles/news/2016/09/report-disabled-black-man-shot-dead-by-police-while-reading-in-the-car/
Unless you can't read only a book can be an imminent threat.0 -
Did you watch the video from the helicopter perspective? It looks to me like he's reaching inside his vehicle.JC29856 said:
Correction: you mean from the cops account not all accounts. Also, she shoots him and they then let him lay there to die, as usual.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
All accounts say he was reaching inside his vehicle. Can you please direct me to this piece? If true... that changes my perspective.JC29856 said:
Except his windows were up.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Okay...
1. Cops stop at an unusual site: a suv is parked directly in the middle of a two way, single lane highway.
2. A man approaches the officers, but when they (she) issues commands... he ignores them and walks to his suv.
3. He continues to ignore them and reaches into his suv for something.
4. Cops shoot.
Does this sum it up about right?
Not that this has anything to do with this case but cop has two other excessive force complaints and has been disciplined for drawing fire arm."My brain's a good brain!"0
This discussion has been closed.
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