Should the US institute a ban on assault weapons.

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

It s amazing how democrats were against the patriot act because it took away some of our constitutional right but in regard to gun control they are ok with taking away your right to due process. And then you can flip it around for the republicans. God I d love a third party!!!

but it's not taking away your constitutional right. no one is taking away guns here.

it's taking away your fifth amendment right of due process. guilty until proven innocent.

that's a stretch.

how s it a stretch? you have a constitutional right to buy a gun. by being on some government "list" you aren't able to buy one even though you aren't guilty of anything. i'm not a big fan of government lists.

you don't think people are on those government lists for good reason? they don't just put them on lists willy nilly.

again, a constitutional right is law. laws can be changed/ammended/subject to conditions. it's not written in stone.

Dirtie_Frank said:

How does one get off the list? There are noted mistakes on this list.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/no-fly-mistakes-cat-stevens-ted-kennedy-john-lewis/

obviously, as with any human process, there will be errors. there would have to be an appeal process that is dealt with in a very quick manner. otherwise people would have every right to be pissed. especially if someone was on a "no buy list" and then got mowed down by a robbery or something, where it could be argued they wouldn't have died/been injured if they had been allowed to buy their choice of army-grade weaponry.

Yeah, if there was some sort of due process required to put someone on the no fly list, then I'd have no objection at all with this legislation. But people can be put on the list for a variety of reasons including visiting certain countries, saying things on the Internet, or even clerical mistakes. One college kid spent 6 years in a lawsuit to get himself removed. He was placed on the list because an FBI employee had checked the wrong box on some form. I'm as opposed to this nonsense as I am to the Patriot Act in general. Complete disregard for constitutional rights. One of the bills regarding background check expansion sounds good as well, but I don't know how you get around HIIPA laws to disclose mental illness. I'm absolutely in favor of denying gun sales to anyone with a mental illness, but the only way we're going to know that they're mentally ill is if they've declared that themselves, or if they'd been involuntarily committed. The other background check bill should have passed, requiring background checks for gun show purchases, and online purchases. We already have that law in my state, and it shouldn't be an issue to do this nationally. Not sure why there's push back on this other than petty partisan politics.

The Republicans need to quit blowing the NRA, and the Dems need to pull up their panties and craft lawful and meaningful legislation, rather than this symbolic BS that they know can't work and won't help.

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

It s amazing how democrats were against the patriot act because it took away some of our constitutional right but in regard to gun control they are ok with taking away your right to due process. And then you can flip it around for the republicans. God I d love a third party!!!

That doesn't make sense. the Democrats are fight FOR due process when it comes to buying guns.

No they re not. You are put on a no fly list for a variety of reasons, some of which can be bogus. If you are then put on the list you can not legally buy a firearm until you are off the list.

The principle of the outdated 2nd Ammendment is what lead to this countries independence.

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

It s amazing how democrats were against the patriot act because it took away some of our constitutional right but in regard to gun control they are ok with taking away your right to due process. And then you can flip it around for the republicans. God I d love a third party!!!

That doesn't make sense. the Democrats are fight FOR due process when it comes to buying guns.

No they re not. You are put on a no fly list for a variety of reasons, some of which can be bogus. If you are then put on the list you can not legally buy a firearm until you are off the list.

But the debate isn't about how no-fly lists are compiled. That is a separate debate. I doubt there is anyone who actually wants people who don't belong on a no-fly list to be on a no-fly list. So that issue does indeed need to be confronted.... as a completely separate issue. You don't prevent gun control because you are worried that totally independent criminal profiling sucks. You fix the shitty criminal profiling system so that it work better with good gun legislation. No way should gun legislation be delayed because people are fumbling around with no-fly lists, mostly because they don't bother to note the differences between people named Mohammad Sallah or whatever. And FWIW, I don't believe for one second that Republicans would be any more likely to pass legislation if no-fly lists were 100% accurate. This argument is yet another red herring coming from the right.

I definitely won't argue with your last couple of sentences. I agree with you on those points. But I am also opposed to using the no fly list as a way to deny someone their constitutional rights until we know that the no fly list has been compiled using some form of due process. I'm not a Republican, and have no interest in their party politics. I am a libertarian, and am always opposed to the feds trying to take away rights and liberties. Clean up the no fly list, and THEN bring the legislation to the floor and it gets two thumbs up from me. To do it the other way around would be like rounding up every brown person you see into an internment camp, and then sorting through them to determine who should be deported, and who should be freed. It would be an ass backward approach and would deny many innocent people rights and protections they are entitled to.

Godfather. said:

it's less of a gun issue and more of a control issue, think about why the government would want to disarm it's citizens, I know I know they don't want your gun's...but once they pass this no fly list or what ever it is do you think it will stop there ? people have been killing each other since the beginning of time with or without guns so why dose our government put so much attention on gun regulations ?...control, if you disarm the responsible citizens all you need to do next is disarm criminals (and that wont be as hard as you might think)

Godfather.

and if it's so easy to disarm criminals, then why are you against it?

Godfather. said:

who said I was against disarming criminals ?
Hitler wiped thousands with gas after he disarmed them, I'm not comparing Obama or Hillary to Hitler but I am pointing out that guns were confiscated before the hell that came.

Godfather.