Former CEO of Ticketmaster comes clean on how fans get screwed on tickets

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Comments

  • on2legs
    on2legs Posts: 16,084
    motar said:

    on2legs said:

    The Internet is also a huge culprit In this whole mess. It used to be that scalpers were shady guys lurking in the shadows of a venue. Now thanks to stubhub, eBay, and the Internet anyone can be a ticket scalper.

    I guess the tradeoff is that Stubhub prevents you from stabbed in the shadows of a venue by some shady guy.
    Always a silver lining in any dark cloud I suppose :smiley:
    1996: Randall's Island 2  1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2  2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel  2005: Atlantic City 1  2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 (#25) | Newark (EV)  2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4  2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2  2011: Toronto 1  2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2015: Central Park  2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD)  2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF)  2020: MSG | Asbury Park  2021: Asbury Park  2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville  2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2025: Raleigh 2


  • Zod
    Zod Posts: 10,963
    I always knew the blocks of tickets were being sold directly to brokers. I always assumed it was Ticketmaster that was doing it, but it never occurred to me the promoter could do it and that it was happening on the promoter level.

    I knew bands get guarantee's. That was old news. Most of the big bands get offered a rate, then the promoter/venue/ticketmaster do all the logistics. Everything from promoting, selling, and running the venue. The bands don't have to do much other than show up, set up their stage/gear and play. What I didn't realize was that promoter's were offering rates so high that it was more than the total Face Value of all the tickets. That's crazy.

    It's been a while since I read an article that offered me new insights. It does transition some of my blame from TM onto Promoters. It was from a guy that ran TM so I'm still skeptical.

    There's no way fans really win. Not when face value is that far below market value. You're basically left with two options. Paperless ticketing or increase the face value of your tickets. If you keep prices low then you're creating a black market for them. If you do that you need to make the tickets as non-transferable as possible.
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 40,078
    good thing I rarely go to "hot ticket" shows. I mostly go to club gigs or smaller venue shows. A friend of mine couldn't get one freaking ticket to Garth Brooks out of FOUR SHOWS. Unbelievable. Can't believe he likes Garth Brooks.
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • Zod
    Zod Posts: 10,963
    Remember when Garth Brooks beat out the record held by Vs. for most albums sold in a week. It was such a sham. I still wonder to this day if anyone would of beat the record had Soundscan not changed how it was recorded (went from albums sold to albums shipped for the math).
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,949
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    A friend of mine couldn't get one freaking ticket to Garth Brooks out of FOUR SHOWS. Unbelievable. Can't believe he likes Garth Brooks.

    :lol:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,949
    edited June 2016
    on2legs said:

    I thought the most interesting point was that promoters guarantee bands a set amount of money and let bands set the face value of tickets to appear like they are looking out for their fans. And then the promoted is allowed to make his money back by scalping seats way above the face value. Pretty clever all around. Devious. But sill clever.

    Yeah, the artists are AGREEING to getting paid more than what the face value tickets are worth, and then the promoters act accordingly so that they can still make money. Seems more like the fault of the artists who sign those contracts than it does the promoters Zod (as I read that you found yourself more mad at the promoters than you were before reading the (great) article). The artists want the fans to THINK that they are trying to give them a fair deal, like they care about their fans, but in fact are screwing them behind their backs. Yes, you're right on2legs, this is super duper devious and slimy.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,949
    edited June 2016
    .
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    if people stopped going, this would stop happening... speak with your wallets, nothing else will ever work

    this is why I LOVE the 10c and the tickets, fuck those greedy bastards
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    this is also why anybody that flips 10c ticket for profit is a fucking asshole... I don't care if you flip posters, or coffee mugs, or dog collars... but tickets are where I draw the line, they are sacred to me
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,949
    edited June 2016
    my2hands said:

    if people stopped going, this would stop happening... speak with your wallets, nothing else will ever work

    this is why I LOVE the 10c and the tickets, fuck those greedy bastards

    People will NEVER stop paying into the problem. Small numbers will out of principle (some of them are 10C members for sure), but most people (still including the majority of 10C members I think) just don't see the big picture, or they do, and are simply too "me me me I want I want I want" to ever alter their behaviour for the greater good. The whole concept of "the greater good" is very close to dead in North American, IMO.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 40,078
    my2hands said:

    if people stopped going, this would stop happening... speak with your wallets, nothing else will ever work

    this is why I LOVE the 10c and the tickets, fuck those greedy bastards

    as long as there are people with deep pockets, the problem will persist.
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,949
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    my2hands said:

    if people stopped going, this would stop happening... speak with your wallets, nothing else will ever work

    this is why I LOVE the 10c and the tickets, fuck those greedy bastards

    as long as there are people with deep pockets, the problem will persist.
    Not if paperless tickets become the norm. It's such a simple solution actually.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 40,078
    PJ_Soul said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    my2hands said:

    if people stopped going, this would stop happening... speak with your wallets, nothing else will ever work

    this is why I LOVE the 10c and the tickets, fuck those greedy bastards

    as long as there are people with deep pockets, the problem will persist.
    Not if paperless tickets become the norm. It's such a simple solution actually.
    I agree. I have said this multiple times. But I just mean as the situation is right now, if that doesn't change, scalpers will get their money.
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,949
    edited June 2016
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    my2hands said:

    if people stopped going, this would stop happening... speak with your wallets, nothing else will ever work

    this is why I LOVE the 10c and the tickets, fuck those greedy bastards

    as long as there are people with deep pockets, the problem will persist.
    Not if paperless tickets become the norm. It's such a simple solution actually.
    I agree. I have said this multiple times. But I just mean as the situation is right now, if that doesn't change, scalpers will get their money.
    Absolutely.
    As for paperless tix.... well, I do have some issues with it. I don't like it because it makes it impossible for parents/friends/etc to buy tickets as gifts or just randomly give away for free, which is a wonderful thing to be able to do. And what about the ticket transfer option that TM has now? That's a great option... wouldn't paperless with CC verification demand that the ticket transfer option is obsolete? Yes, paperless IS such a simple solution. But for me, it's a tad overly restrictive for reasons that have nothing to with scalpers. There must be ANOTHER way - one that allows us to gift tickets to people.... an optional verification alternative maybe?? Ummm... I dunno, like maybe the ticket holder could just provide the 3-digit number on the back of the credit card that purchased the tickets? That would mean that the giver would need to provide this info to the givee. I don't see that as an issue, since the buyer is the one making the decision.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Spark28
    Spark28 Posts: 64
    This just in, concert promoters are unscrupulous, news at 11.
  • Zod
    Zod Posts: 10,963


    Absolutely.
    As for paperless tix.... well, I do have some issues with it. I don't like it because it makes it impossible for parents/friends/etc to buy tickets as gifts or just randomly give away for free, which is a wonderful thing to be able to do. And what about the ticket transfer option that TM has now? That's a great option... wouldn't paperless with CC verification demand that the ticket transfer option is obsolete? Yes, paperless IS such a simple solution. But for me, it's a tad overly restrictive for reasons that have nothing to with scalpers. There must be ANOTHER way - one that allows us to gift tickets to people.... an optional verification alternative maybe?? Ummm... I dunno, like maybe the ticket holder could just provide the 3-digit number on the back of the credit card that purchased the tickets? That would mean that the giver would need to provide this info to the givee. I don't see that as an issue, since the buyer is the one making the decision.

    If you want it to work I think it needs to be restrictive. The more "exceptions" you make the easier it is for scalpers to transfer tickets to other people too. If you're selling something below its actual value, then the only way to prevent a black market is to pretty much make it impossible to sell the good. If you open up loopholes, people will figure out how to exploit them.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,949
    edited June 2016
    Well I'm not talking about loopholes. Just one option to give tickets to someone and still prevent scalping. I think what I suggested is a perfectly reasonable and simple solution that would apply equally to everyone, so it's not an exception or a loophole. At the very least, keep the ticket transfer option and make the original buyer enter a new credit card number for the new ticket holder. That way the new holder could still present an assigned CC at the door.... How many people are going to be offering up their CC number to a scalper?? I don't think anyone in the world would do that.
    Anyway, for there to be NO option to transfer tickets just doesn't seem reasonable to me. Shit happens to a LOT of people to prevent them from making the show they have tix to. Emergencies, work schedules, etc etc. If there is absolutely no way to give a ticket to someone as a gift or so that tickets don't go to waste, we'd be seeing a lot more empty seats at shows, which would totally suck.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Spark28
    Spark28 Posts: 64
    Scalpers have long ago figured out that they can just buy tickets using Visa gift cards and sell the gift card to get around the paperless entry. There is no foolproof system, and the brokers, who have a very powerful political lobby, will fight every single step. See MSG ticket distribution instructions from earlier this year.
  • HesCalledDyer
    HesCalledDyer Maryland Posts: 16,501
    Solution to the Visa gift card workaround = require postal code verification like gas pumps do.
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  • Spark28
    Spark28 Posts: 64
    TM does do that, but Visa gift cards work without billing address verification. Since they can be bought for cash, the billing zip codes can be spoofed to anywhere the buyer wants to input.

    Visa gift cards will work anywhere that Visa is accepted, it's part of the merchant agreement. You cannot refuse a Visa gift card without refusing to accept all Visa cards.

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