Animals in Captivity

PJfanwillneverleave1 · June 2016

rgambs said:
Objectively I would put the survival of gorillas as a species before the life of any single (Darwinian award winning?) human child, but subjectively I would personally hunt and cut the throats of every single great ape or cuddly little chinchilla if that's what it took to save my own son.

I love listening to granola liberals. (not you personally of course), but if one was to say that I imagine that is what they would sound like

Thirty Bills Unpaid · June 2016

lukin2006 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:
devil's advocate: EVERY species, if they were put in a position to choose their own or another, would choose their own EVERY SINGLE TIME. a gorilla wouldn't give a second thought to snapping the last human female in half if one of their babies was in danger.
You're right ... The big difference is that kids mama was probably too hysterical to do anything, but reverse that role with the ape or most other animals and they immediately would jump into action and rescue their young.

This is a mouthful.

It's true. Outside of crocodiles, are there other animals outside of humans that will kill their own offspring?

(Mom never sounded too hysterical... I'm not sure what the most accurate descriptor would be?)

PJ_Soul · June 2016

rustneversleeps said:

lukin2006 said:

rustneversleeps said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:
Question: same situation but the gorilla is the last known female in the world. Do you still take the shot?
My answer would be no. I'm sure the kid's parents would disagree, but yeah, I do place the very existence of gorillas to outweigh the life of one child. Sorry kid.
absurd.
Why is pjsoul opinion absurd ... We are only at the top of the food chain because we invented weapons ... And we annoited our selves decider of everything, destroyer of everything ... Yeah humans should be proud.
youre right... should have just let the gorilla have its way with the kid. then we could create threads about how horrible America is for letting that happen. And America could then get another valuable lesson from canada, this time on zoo safety.

the Libs around here make me laugh... and i'm fucking liberal as they come, so i thought. some around here are radicals.

Whoa there. If you weren't so anxious to troll me, you would know that I already said I think that shooting the gorilla in this case WAS necessary (even though it never should have been required, if only the enclosure was secured against 4 year olds). I was only responding to the hypothetical presented above. If it had been the last female gorilla on Earth. I'm sure you can see the difference here?
I am not a radical.

Degeneratefk · June 2016

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:
Question: same situation but the gorilla is the last known female in the world. Do you still take the shot?
My answer would be no. I'm sure the kid's parents would disagree, but yeah, I do place the very existence of gorillas to outweigh the life of one child. Sorry kid.
What? Don't you mean sorry apes? We are on top of the evolutionary ladder for a reason. I'm not sure I can think of 1 good reason that a child should die in order to keep a species alive. Extinction is part of natural selection.
Why would I say sorry apes if I think a kid's life is worth saving an entire species?
Extinction caused solely by overhunting and poaching is a part of natural selection? I don't know about that. We're not talking about a species that is sliding into extinction because they aren't compatible with their natural environment. They are going extinct for gorilla hand ashtrays and so that some asshole with erectile dysfunction can try and get a hard on. There is nothing "natural" about that.
Human are destroying ecological balance because of their greed. Simple as that. Yes, loss of human life is worth saving a species decimated by human greed IMO.

What if it was your child?

Degeneratefk · June 2016

Jason P said:
Speaking of lawsuits, there is a 99.99% chance this family sues the zoo anyway, right?

I heard on GMA this morning that the family was not interested in money from the media to talk. Certainly doesn't mean that they're not talking to an attorney.

PJ_Soul · June 2016

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:
Question: same situation but the gorilla is the last known female in the world. Do you still take the shot?
My answer would be no. I'm sure the kid's parents would disagree, but yeah, I do place the very existence of gorillas to outweigh the life of one child. Sorry kid.
What? Don't you mean sorry apes? We are on top of the evolutionary ladder for a reason. I'm not sure I can think of 1 good reason that a child should die in order to keep a species alive. Extinction is part of natural selection.
Why would I say sorry apes if I think a kid's life is worth saving an entire species?
Extinction caused solely by overhunting and poaching is a part of natural selection? I don't know about that. We're not talking about a species that is sliding into extinction because they aren't compatible with their natural environment. They are going extinct for gorilla hand ashtrays and so that some asshole with erectile dysfunction can try and get a hard on. There is nothing "natural" about that.
Human are destroying ecological balance because of their greed. Simple as that. Yes, loss of human life is worth saving a species decimated by human greed IMO.
What if it was your child?

I already answered this a post or two ago.

PJ_Soul · June 2016

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

lukin2006 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:
devil's advocate: EVERY species, if they were put in a position to choose their own or another, would choose their own EVERY SINGLE TIME. a gorilla wouldn't give a second thought to snapping the last human female in half if one of their babies was in danger.
You're right ... The big difference is that kids mama was probably too hysterical to do anything, but reverse that role with the ape or most other animals and they immediately would jump into action and rescue their young.
This is a mouthful.

It's true. Outside of crocodiles, are there other animals outside of humans that will kill their own offspring?

(Mom never sounded too hysterical... I'm not sure what the most accurate descriptor would be?)

That are tons of animals that kill their own young actually. I personally once saw a cat eat the head off of her own kitten. Other species will happily fight to the death with their own offspring once they are adults and a threat to their position in a heard or pride or whatever. Others will simply reject their young for various reasons and abandon them soon after birth. This is fairly common among animals. So yeah, animals usually protect their own kids to the death, and humans are particularly protective of their own offspring (NOT of other people's offspring).

Degeneratefk · June 2016

How would losing that particular species of gorilla effect the ecosystem? Chances are, if that was the last female, it would be in captivity anyway. Objectively, you take that shot 100 out of 100 times.

PJfanwillneverleave1 · June 2016

Degeneratefk said:
How would losing that particular species of gorilla effect the ecosystem? Chances are, if that was the last female, it would be in captivity anyway. Objectively, you take that shot 100 out of 100 times.

This is a good point.
One left in the world?
Procreation would be out I guess.

PJ_Soul · June 2016

Degeneratefk said:
How would losing that particular species of gorilla effect the ecosystem? Chances are, if that was the last female, it would be in captivity anyway. Objectively, you take that shot 100 out of 100 times.

Never mind. If you refuse to acknowledge the intrinsic and ecological value of an animal species, there is no point in discussing it any further.

rustneversleeps · June 2016

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:
Objectively I would put the survival of gorillas as a species before the life of any single (Darwinian award winning?) human child, but subjectively I would personally hunt and cut the throats of every single great ape or cuddly little chinchilla if that's what it took to save my own son.
I love listening to granola liberals. (not you personally of course), but if one was to say that I imagine that is what they would sound like

these granolas are radicals in every sense of the word....

lukin2006 · June 2016

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

lukin2006 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:
devil's advocate: EVERY species, if they were put in a position to choose their own or another, would choose their own EVERY SINGLE TIME. a gorilla wouldn't give a second thought to snapping the last human female in half if one of their babies was in danger.
You're right ... The big difference is that kids mama was probably too hysterical to do anything, but reverse that role with the ape or most other animals and they immediately would jump into action and rescue their young.
This is a mouthful.

It's true. Outside of crocodiles, are there other animals outside of humans that will kill their own offspring?

(Mom never sounded too hysterical... I'm not sure what the most accurate descriptor would be?)

Maybe in this case hysterical was a bit strong but I've seen enough of people and know how many react.

PJ_Soul · June 2016

rustneversleeps said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:
Objectively I would put the survival of gorillas as a species before the life of any single (Darwinian award winning?) human child, but subjectively I would personally hunt and cut the throats of every single great ape or cuddly little chinchilla if that's what it took to save my own son.
I love listening to granola liberals. (not you personally of course), but if one was to say that I imagine that is what they would sound like
these granolas are radicals in every sense of the word....

I guess when you ignore what a person is actually saying and invent meanings instead, you would think that.

Degeneratefk · June 2016

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:
How would losing that particular species of gorilla effect the ecosystem? Chances are, if that was the last female, it would be in captivity anyway. Objectively, you take that shot 100 out of 100 times.
Never mind. If you refuse to acknowledge the intrinsic and ecological value of an animal species, there is no point in discussing it any further.

Absolutely not true. If the animal is in captivity anyway, how is the value of the ecosystem diminished? That's not a question that should be asked?

PJ_Soul · June 2016

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:
How would losing that particular species of gorilla effect the ecosystem? Chances are, if that was the last female, it would be in captivity anyway. Objectively, you take that shot 100 out of 100 times.
Never mind. If you refuse to acknowledge the intrinsic and ecological value of an animal species, there is no point in discussing it any further.
Absolutely not true. If the animal is in captivity anyway, how is the value of the ecosystem diminished? That's not a question that should be asked?

The death of the one animal wouldn't have a sudden impact. The lack of that species in nature would be.
And it's hypothetical remember. We all know that viable gene pools etc etc need to be taken into account, but that's not important in this discussion. The philosophy of it is the issue.

rustneversleeps · June 2016

PJ_Soul said:

rustneversleeps said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:
Objectively I would put the survival of gorillas as a species before the life of any single (Darwinian award winning?) human child, but subjectively I would personally hunt and cut the throats of every single great ape or cuddly little chinchilla if that's what it took to save my own son.
I love listening to granola liberals. (not you personally of course), but if one was to say that I imagine that is what they would sound like
these granolas are radicals in every sense of the word....
I guess when you ignore what a person is actually saying and invent meanings instead, you would think that.

i guess

Degeneratefk · June 2016

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:
How would losing that particular species of gorilla effect the ecosystem? Chances are, if that was the last female, it would be in captivity anyway. Objectively, you take that shot 100 out of 100 times.
Never mind. If you refuse to acknowledge the intrinsic and ecological value of an animal species, there is no point in discussing it any further.
Absolutely not true. If the animal is in captivity anyway, how is the value of the ecosystem diminished? That's not a question that should be asked?
The death of the one animal wouldn't have a sudden impact. The lack of that species in nature would be.
And it's hypothetical remember. We all know that viable gene pools etc etc need to be taken into account, but that's not important in this discussion. The philosophy of it is the issue.

Yes it's hypothetical and yes I'm being objective. Does every species hold equal value to an ecosystem?

PJ_Soul · June 2016

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:
How would losing that particular species of gorilla effect the ecosystem? Chances are, if that was the last female, it would be in captivity anyway. Objectively, you take that shot 100 out of 100 times.
Never mind. If you refuse to acknowledge the intrinsic and ecological value of an animal species, there is no point in discussing it any further.
Absolutely not true. If the animal is in captivity anyway, how is the value of the ecosystem diminished? That's not a question that should be asked?
The death of the one animal wouldn't have a sudden impact. The lack of that species in nature would be.
And it's hypothetical remember. We all know that viable gene pools etc etc need to be taken into account, but that's not important in this discussion. The philosophy of it is the issue.
Yes it's hypothetical and yes I'm being objective. Does every species hold equal value to an ecosystem?

No. Humans are a destructive parasite, so I would argue that humans have much less value, if any at all.

lukin2006 · June 2016

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:
How would losing that particular species of gorilla effect the ecosystem? Chances are, if that was the last female, it would be in captivity anyway. Objectively, you take that shot 100 out of 100 times.
Never mind. If you refuse to acknowledge the intrinsic and ecological value of an animal species, there is no point in discussing it any further.
Absolutely not true. If the animal is in captivity anyway, how is the value of the ecosystem diminished? That's not a question that should be asked?
The death of the one animal wouldn't have a sudden impact. The lack of that species in nature would be.
And it's hypothetical remember. We all know that viable gene pools etc etc need to be taken into account, but that's not important in this discussion. The philosophy of it is the issue.
Yes it's hypothetical and yes I'm being objective. Does every species hold equal value to an ecosystem?
No. Humans are a destructive parasite, so I would argue that humans have much less value, if any at all.

Like

Degeneratefk · June 2016

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:
How would losing that particular species of gorilla effect the ecosystem? Chances are, if that was the last female, it would be in captivity anyway. Objectively, you take that shot 100 out of 100 times.
Never mind. If you refuse to acknowledge the intrinsic and ecological value of an animal species, there is no point in discussing it any further.
Absolutely not true. If the animal is in captivity anyway, how is the value of the ecosystem diminished? That's not a question that should be asked?
The death of the one animal wouldn't have a sudden impact. The lack of that species in nature would be.
And it's hypothetical remember. We all know that viable gene pools etc etc need to be taken into account, but that's not important in this discussion. The philosophy of it is the issue.
Yes it's hypothetical and yes I'm being objective. Does every species hold equal value to an ecosystem?
No. Humans are a destructive parasite, so I would argue that humans have much less value, if any at all.

I'd say the higher up the food chain you go, the less value a species holds.

I didn't see answer to the question of what if it was your child? Could you hold such objectivity? Obviously not, but could you accept the death of your child to save that species?

Animals in Captivity

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