.

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I've never read TKAMB. I suppose I should.

As for books in the cirrocumulus that should be removed id vote for "A midsummer nights dream"

Also to add isn't this the book that was supposedly written by Salinger?

Never heard that, doesn't have Salinger's voice at all IMO.

Also, yes that is one of the worst, along with Romeo and Juliet.
It should be Merchant of Venice and Othello, along with Hamlet, Othello, and Julius Caesar.

Holy Cow! You guys editing Shakespeare! LOL!

I laugh, but as much at myself as I'm not that well versed in W.S. I think it got wrecked for me in middle school the day my voice cracked for the very first time right in the middle of English class, reading aloud as instructed by my teacher, and right in the middle of the line, "Et tu, Brute?"
Holy f*ck!

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Shakespeare should be in an advanced high school English class and university elective classes.

Reference and a small portion of study should be made to him in Social Studies.

I'm not discrediting his work... I'm saying that outside of English Honours students... his work is challenging at best for kids to appreciate. I'm also not saying we serve them comic books either. I'm saying there are several great pieces of literature that have much more relevance to kids.

Some familiarization, definitely. Same with performance. Generally not my thing but before it became chick, I saw a troupe do a W.S.play with the original language but punk costumes and black cloth angular sets at the Ashland, Oregon Shakespeare Festival. It was really different at the time and outstanding.

As much as I'm very much a fan of all the classics offered in most schools, if I went back to teaching I would do what my 9th grade teacher did. She said, "OK, here's the reading list this year but I would encourage any of you to try something outside the norm." I had read most of them (Red Pony, The Pearl, TKAM, Old Man and the Sea, etc,) so she suggest that I might like Truman Capote. I read, Other Voices, Other Rooms. That book completely altered how I saw literature. It was literally like adding another voice, another room to the realm of literature. Reading Brautigan, Hesse, Saroyan and some others in high school did much the same. Today it would be more challenging because kids are more jaded. Catcher in the Rye was radical then, today maybe not so.

I would hope teachers today are including some contemporary literature by people like Sherman Alexie, Barbara Kingsolver, T. C. Boyle, Annie Proulx, Mark Haddon, Toni Morrison, Haruki Murakami, etc.

Others?

Yeah, Shakespeare is for advanced students, and should not be forced too young. Macbeth is the best for youngins, I do feel they should be exposed to 1 play in it's entirety in high school. The sonnets are more appropriate for middle schoolers, they are much easier to comprehend, especially with a few notes. I love ol' Billy boy!

When to the sessions of sweet silent thought
I summon up remembrance of things past,
I sigh the lack of many a thing I sought,
And with old woes new wail my dear time's waste:
Then can I drown an eye, unused to flow,
For precious friends hid in death's dateless night,
And weep afresh love's long since cancelled woe,
And moan the expense of many a vanished sight:
Then can I grieve at grievances foregone,
And heavily from woe to woe tell o'er
The sad account of fore-bemoanèd moan,
Which I new pay as if not paid before.
But if the while I think on thee, dear friend,
All losses are restored and sorrows end.

Anybody can understand most of these sonnets and they are deep and evocative.

Not marble, nor the gilded monuments
Of princes, shall outlive this powerful rhyme;
But you shall shine more bright in these contents
Than unswept stone, besmear'd with sluttish time.
When wasteful war shall statues overturn,
And broils root out the work of masonry,
Nor Mars his sword nor war's quick fire shall burn
The living record of your memory.
'Gainst death and all-oblivious enmity
Shall you pace forth; your praise shall still find room
Even in the eyes of all posterity
That wear this world out to the ending doom.
So, till the judgment that yourself arise,
You live in this, and dwell in lovers' eyes.

Did you have trouble with english lit in grade 8? I remember completely understanding and appreciating the book's meaning and it's purpose as part of the curriculum and as a book that is important for people to read. I recall that it had a major impact on the class. Maybe it wasn't the book that lacked a reasonable purpose at that grade level. Maybe you and how you took in literature at that age, your reading comprehension, and/or your own mindset that was the problem?? I recall that book being THE book that opened my eyes to social and racial inequalities and injustice in the criminal justice system. Before that book I don't think I even knew that issue existed. I consider it to have had a significant impact on me.

eddiec said:

Removing Shakespeare from high school curriculum would be a travesty. That would be like removing Mozart from a music course because some kids don't get it.

Good god, is that where the conversation has gone??
Yeah, Shakespeare is tough for kids. That why it needs to stay in the curriculum. If it's tough, then the kids need to work really hard to understand it, and with ALL the resources available to help people comprehend it, that isn't too much to ask. Sounds ideal actually. Maybe there should be MORE Shakespeare, not less.

PJ_Soul said:

eddiec said:

Removing Shakespeare from high school curriculum would be a travesty. That would be like removing Mozart from a music course because some kids don't get it.

Good god, is that where the conversation has gone??
Yeah, Shakespeare is tough for kids. That why it needs to stay in the curriculum. If it's tough, then the kids need to work really hard to understand it, and with ALL the resources available to help people comprehend it, that isn't too much to ask. Sounds ideal actually. Maybe there should be MORE Shakespeare, not less.

I've noticed many of these forum topics veer off track frequently. Going from Harper Lee to Shakespeare is a bit like going from Pearl Jam to Mozart. Both are great but how did we get there?

TKAMB is one of the greatest works of the 20th century, period!

The Tempest doesn't have enough plot for many people, that's why Macbeth goes over well.

shitty teacher? um, no. not in the least. and again, i was in honours english. poetry isn't for everyone. especially shakespeare poetry. the language can be difficult to understand, never mind interpret. just because it's easy for you, doesn't mean it is for everyone.

I excelled in math. just because others didn't, doesn't mean I assume they have shitty teachers or that they suck in math.

My daughter went to a small, very non-groovy (really) private school in LA. When her class did Romeo and Juliet in 7th grade, the father of one of the students came in with a friend and they did the sword-fighting scene b't Romeo and Tybalt. Gary Oldman was the father and my daughter still doesn't know who played the friend. Needless to say, she came home and announced that she loved Romeo and Juliet. The next year they read Macbeth and GO came in again and did several Macbeth monologues. That was a pretty cool way to introduce kids to Shakespeare.

A book I remember that blew me away in high school was The Autobiography of Malcolm X. It stuck with me for a long, long time.

HughFreakingDillon said:

shitty teacher? um, no. not in the least. and again, i was in honours english. poetry isn't for everyone. especially shakespeare poetry. the language can be difficult to understand, never mind interpret. just because it's easy for you, doesn't mean it is for everyone.

I excelled in math. just because others didn't, doesn't mean I assume they have shitty teachers or that they suck in math.

I did not suggest that it should be easy for everyone, and in fact suggested that perhaps poetry was more difficult for you. I was just asking a question, so not sure why you seemed to have reacted to e defensively. Some teachers are actually shitty. And for the record, I absolutely fucking suck at math. I barely passed grade 11 math (in fact I didn't - my teacher just was nice and knew I tried hard). That doesn't mean I think the material was inappropriate.