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PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
edited May 2016 in A Moving Train
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  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    Wow! :lol:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • EnkiduEnkidu Posts: 2,996
    Do you remember the book? It's definitely a book that changed my life - I grew up in a small town in the south and my parents told me to read it to understand about black/white relations. And they were right. Lots of the town in the book were like my small southern home town.

    It's one of the most important books I've read. My children read it in school and I'm glad they did and I hope their children read it, too.
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited December 2016
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    Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
  • Who PrincessWho Princess Posts: 7,305
    I don't think I understand why you object to kids reading it in school. It's an excellent piece of literature and it succeeds on more than one level. It captures small town life during a time that's nearly past living memory and it depicts the South and race relations during the Jim Crow era. I think it's valid for teens to learn about those things and they probably absorb more from reading a work of fiction than studying it in history class.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited December 2016
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    Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
  • EnkiduEnkidu Posts: 2,996
    This must be a joke thread. To Kill a Mockingbird isn't important and shouldn't be read in school? Why don't we add Shakespeare? Grapes of Wrath, Diary of Anne Frank (it's about a girl!). I mean, seriously?

    I read TKAM before we read it in school - in either 5th or 6th grade because my parents wanted me to read it. I think there are many towns (in the south or not) that could do with reading the book in 2016 to understand race relations. Sad, but true.
  • Who PrincessWho Princess Posts: 7,305
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Who Princess said:

    I don't think I understand why you object to kids reading it in school. It's an excellent piece of literature and it succeeds on more than one level. It captures small town life during a time that's nearly past living memory and it depicts the South and race relations during the Jim Crow era. I think it's valid for teens to learn about those things and they probably absorb more from reading a work of fiction than studying it in history class.

    I don't object to it being in school. It just seems that the older we get the more we question things.
    Reading that book in highschool had no interpersonal interpretations at the time because I was just a kid doing what was told to pass in class.
    Unless you actively studied and interpreted this novel after reading it as a child it has no bearing on a childs life.
    It is a piece of literature yes, just that.
    Why does society to this day uphold this book to such a high degree? ,
    I guess you're saying you read it because you had to and you didn't think about it further? Did any of the other works of fiction you read in school stay with you?

    I didn't think deeply about everything that I read in high school literature classes but there were some books that generated lots of class discussion and that I remember vividly years later. TKAM was one of those books for me. Also, All the King's Men, Slaughterhouse Five, and Cry, the Beloved Country, for various other reasons. Other books I read may not have been as meaningful to me but made impressions on some of my friends.

    I wouldn't say that TKAM is "a piece of literature, just that." It's an excellent piece of writing. I haven't picked it up in decades but I still remember in particular Lee's gift for dialog.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited December 2016
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    Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
  • Who PrincessWho Princess Posts: 7,305
    Black Like Me is a powerful book. It affected me very much.

    Side note: the author, John Howard Griffin, lived in the area where I grew up and his daughter and I were close friends in grade school. I spent many weekends at their family's farm. It was something of a jolt to read the book in high school and realize that the events had happened to the person who I had just known as my friend's dad.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • RKCNDYRKCNDY Posts: 31,013
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    With the recent passing of the author it brought up memories of reading this book in grade 8 English.
    Long time since then and now I don't really comprehend the fanfare of keeping this book in the curriculum.
    Just got me thinking of who approves of what is taught in public schools.

    edit - This is not a RIP thread whatsoever. This is not being insensitive to what has happened. This is a thread about the book.

    There are a lot of ignorant people in this world...
    The joy of life comes from our encounters with new experiences, and hence there is no greater joy than to have an endlessly changing horizon, for each day to have a new and different sun.

    - Christopher McCandless
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    edited February 2016
    There are so many levels to that book, so many themes, so many character revelations. Harper Lee wrote one book in her life (I don't count the other one recently released because it was rejected before TKAM was written and for good reason) and a person could spend one's life seeing those revelations unfold. I'm just now beginning to fully understand Boo Radley... and he's my favorite character. I'm still looking for the knot in the tree.
    Post edited by brianlux on
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • eddieceddiec Posts: 3,881
    image
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    I didn't read it until 2 years ago, didn't have it in any classes. I thought it was a very good novel that would have great power for young people.
    I think the OP is just being contrary because she can't resist.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,538
    As long as the bible doesn't make it back to the school curriculum I'm ok but TKAMB to me was a fascinating story that should be read by everybody ....
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited December 2016
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    Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Posts: 10,767
    It absolutely should be part of educational curriculum.

    I read it in 3rd grade on my own and not as an assignment. Which led to many interesting and in depth conversations with my parents, teachers, and others over the years.

    Since then I have read it every 3 or 4 years and watch the movie at least once a year or more.
    Been to lectures and presentations on the book and or movie a few times over the years.

    As far as I am concerned there are no negatives to having this as part of a curriculum.

    This is a must read for everyone.
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Just because one wasn't capable of absorbing that particular book at a certain age doesn't mean everyone else lacks that insight. I too read it before it was required - our parents encouraged reading from a young age. My sister still has the battered, dog-eared paperback we shared growing up.

    Anyway, it's early and eloquence escapes me at the moment, so I'll defer to the well-spoken comments above.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    josevolution said:

    As long as the bible doesn't make it back to the school curriculum I'm ok but TKAMB to me was a fascinating story that should be read by everybody ....

    I have always said that the bible should be available in the curriculum to teach as part of English ficition like with greek mythical novels.
    The sooner we get people to regard the bible as just a book of stories the sooner the human race will improve. I mean it certainly is a well written novel and could teach a lot about ancient writing.
    I read the Bible. Parts of it make for good reading, interesting history, fascinating fantasy/sci fi, even sensual in parts (song of Solomon) but there are big chunks of that book that are simply stone cold dead on boring and mind numbing. If I used the Bible in a curriculum, I would (figuratively at least) tear out massive chunks of it first.

    I'd still much more prefer to use TKAMB. It has all the good stuff the long convoluted Bible has only written with greater clarity and certainly is more believable.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,355
    I've never read TKAMB. I suppose I should.

    As for books in the cirrocumulus that should be removed id vote for "A midsummer nights dream"

    Also to add isn't this the book that was supposedly written by Salinger?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    tempo_n_groove said:

    I've never read TKAMB. I suppose I should.

    As for books in the cirrocumulus that should be removed id vote for "A midsummer nights dream"

    Also to add isn't this the book that was supposedly written by Salinger?

    Never heard that, doesn't have Salinger's voice at all IMO.

    Also, yes that is one of the worst, along with Romeo and Juliet.
    It should be Merchant of Venice and Othello, along with Hamlet, Othello, and Julius Caesar.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    rgambs said:

    tempo_n_groove said:

    I've never read TKAMB. I suppose I should.

    As for books in the cirrocumulus that should be removed id vote for "A midsummer nights dream"

    Also to add isn't this the book that was supposedly written by Salinger?

    Never heard that, doesn't have Salinger's voice at all IMO.

    Also, yes that is one of the worst, along with Romeo and Juliet.
    It should be Merchant of Venice and Othello, along with Hamlet, Othello, and Julius Caesar.
    Holy Cow! You guys editing Shakespeare! LOL!

    I laugh, but as much at myself as I'm not that well versed in W.S. I think it got wrecked for me in middle school the day my voice cracked for the very first time right in the middle of English class, reading aloud as instructed by my teacher, and right in the middle of the line, "Et tu, Brute?"
    Holy f*ck! :rofl:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Shakespeare should be in an advanced high school English class and university elective classes.

    Reference and a small portion of study should be made to him in Social Studies.

    I'm not discrediting his work... I'm saying that outside of English Honours students... his work is challenging at best for kids to appreciate. I'm also not saying we serve them comic books either. I'm saying there are several great pieces of literature that have much more relevance to kids.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    Shakespeare should be in an advanced high school English class and university elective classes.

    Reference and a small portion of study should be made to him in Social Studies.

    I'm not discrediting his work... I'm saying that outside of English Honours students... his work is challenging at best for kids to appreciate. I'm also not saying we serve them comic books either. I'm saying there are several great pieces of literature that have much more relevance to kids.

    Some familiarization, definitely. Same with performance. Generally not my thing but before it became chick, I saw a troupe do a W.S.play with the original language but punk costumes and black cloth angular sets at the Ashland, Oregon Shakespeare Festival. It was really different at the time and outstanding.

    As much as I'm very much a fan of all the classics offered in most schools, if I went back to teaching I would do what my 9th grade teacher did. She said, "OK, here's the reading list this year but I would encourage any of you to try something outside the norm." I had read most of them (Red Pony, The Pearl, TKAM, Old Man and the Sea, etc,) so she suggest that I might like Truman Capote. I read, Other Voices, Other Rooms. That book completely altered how I saw literature. It was literally like adding another voice, another room to the realm of literature. Reading Brautigan, Hesse, Saroyan and some others in high school did much the same. Today it would be more challenging because kids are more jaded. Catcher in the Rye was radical then, today maybe not so.

    I would hope teachers today are including some contemporary literature by people like Sherman Alexie, Barbara Kingsolver, T. C. Boyle, Annie Proulx, Mark Haddon, Toni Morrison, Haruki Murakami, etc.

    Others?

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • EnkiduEnkidu Posts: 2,996
    Shakespeare is tough for kids. I think Julius Caesar was taught to kids in 8th grade in my hometown (I was in a different class and missed it). Julius Caesar is damn hard. It's one of my favorite Shakespeare plays now, but reading it in 7th grade? Impossible.

    However, I had a fantastic English teacher my junior year in high school and we read Macbeth and it was a fantastic experience. She made it come alive for us. We had to memorize passages, we read lots of it out loud, it was scary and bloody - perfect for high school juniors.

    My son read The Tempest in middle school and had the same experience - an amazing teacher who got him excited about the language. So he liked it.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    Yeah, Shakespeare is for advanced students, and should not be forced too young. Macbeth is the best for youngins, I do feel they should be exposed to 1 play in it's entirety in high school. The sonnets are more appropriate for middle schoolers, they are much easier to comprehend, especially with a few notes. I love ol' Billy boy!

    When to the sessions of sweet silent thought
    I summon up remembrance of things past,
    I sigh the lack of many a thing I sought,
    And with old woes new wail my dear time's waste:
    Then can I drown an eye, unused to flow,
    For precious friends hid in death's dateless night,
    And weep afresh love's long since cancelled woe,
    And moan the expense of many a vanished sight:
    Then can I grieve at grievances foregone,
    And heavily from woe to woe tell o'er
    The sad account of fore-bemoanèd moan,
    Which I new pay as if not paid before.
    But if the while I think on thee, dear friend,
    All losses are restored and sorrows end.

    Anybody can understand most of these sonnets and they are deep and evocative.

    Not marble, nor the gilded monuments
    Of princes, shall outlive this powerful rhyme;
    But you shall shine more bright in these contents
    Than unswept stone, besmear'd with sluttish time.
    When wasteful war shall statues overturn,
    And broils root out the work of masonry,
    Nor Mars his sword nor war's quick fire shall burn
    The living record of your memory.
    'Gainst death and all-oblivious enmity
    Shall you pace forth; your praise shall still find room
    Even in the eyes of all posterity
    That wear this world out to the ending doom.
    So, till the judgment that yourself arise,
    You live in this, and dwell in lovers' eyes.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,982
    start kids off by reading the lyrics to Led Zeppelin songs,then move on to Shakespeare. LZ would prepare them well.
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited February 2016
    Did you have trouble with english lit in grade 8? I remember completely understanding and appreciating the book's meaning and it's purpose as part of the curriculum and as a book that is important for people to read. I recall that it had a major impact on the class. Maybe it wasn't the book that lacked a reasonable purpose at that grade level. Maybe you and how you took in literature at that age, your reading comprehension, and/or your own mindset that was the problem?? I recall that book being THE book that opened my eyes to social and racial inequalities and injustice in the criminal justice system. Before that book I don't think I even knew that issue existed. I consider it to have had a significant impact on me.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • eddieceddiec Posts: 3,881
    Removing Shakespeare from high school curriculum would be a travesty. That would be like removing Mozart from a music course because some kids don't get it.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    eddiec said:

    Removing Shakespeare from high school curriculum would be a travesty. That would be like removing Mozart from a music course because some kids don't get it.

    Good god, is that where the conversation has gone??
    Yeah, Shakespeare is tough for kids. That why it needs to stay in the curriculum. If it's tough, then the kids need to work really hard to understand it, and with ALL the resources available to help people comprehend it, that isn't too much to ask. Sounds ideal actually. Maybe there should be MORE Shakespeare, not less.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,982
    I was a top student in English. Shakespeare I just didn't get. what the hell he was trying to say. I honestly think his works probably belong in a higher learning atmosphere, like University. Most kids my age didn't get it either.

    TKAM is essential reading.
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




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