Halifax does his research.

PJfanwillneverleave1 · December 2015

What would it take to change the "Right To Keep/Bear Arms" thing you guys seem so impassioned about?
Is that a no go? Is it possible?
Referendum?
What?
I think the US needs to look at how that right is instilled in the minds of youth.

mickeyrat · December 2015

PJ_Soul said:
Maybe the American education system can step it up. Like develop an actual curriculum aimed at raising future generations to not buy into the American gun culture and also how to deal with problems in non-violent ways. Again, while gun laws are a problem, the main issue is culture IMO (the gun culture and otherwise). That isn't exactly an easy thing to confront... how to change major flaws in a culture???? I don't know... But focusing more on community rather than the individual might help. America is VERY into the individual. I doubt the overwhelming fixation on money and fame doesn't help either.

Its cultural but beyond simply the gun culture. We as a society seem to have done a poor job of teaching civility, particularly as the internet has proliferated, incivility has gotten way beyond worse.

Put simply, we as a nation are frustrated and cant deal with it.

jnimhaoileoin · December 2015

mickeyrat said:

PJ_Soul said:
Maybe the American education system can step it up. Like develop an actual curriculum aimed at raising future generations to not buy into the American gun culture and also how to deal with problems in non-violent ways. Again, while gun laws are a problem, the main issue is culture IMO (the gun culture and otherwise). That isn't exactly an easy thing to confront... how to change major flaws in a culture???? I don't know... But focusing more on community rather than the individual might help. America is VERY into the individual. I doubt the overwhelming fixation on money and fame doesn't help either.
Its cultural but beyond simply the gun culture. We as a society seem to have done a poor job of teaching civility, particularly as the internet has proliferated, incivility has gotten way beyond worse.

Put simply, we as a nation are frustrated and cant deal with it.

And you don't trust your government, to me that plays a huge part in it. You're all so removed from your representatives and the relationship with them seems wholly adversarial

brianlux · December 2015

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
What would it take to change the "Right To Keep/Bear Arms" thing you guys seem so impassioned about?
Is that a no go? Is it possible?
Referendum?
What?
I think the US needs to look at how that right is instilled in the minds of youth.

Easy: Right to arm bears.

brianlux · December 2015

jnimhaoileoin said:

mickeyrat said:

PJ_Soul said:
Maybe the American education system can step it up. Like develop an actual curriculum aimed at raising future generations to not buy into the American gun culture and also how to deal with problems in non-violent ways. Again, while gun laws are a problem, the main issue is culture IMO (the gun culture and otherwise). That isn't exactly an easy thing to confront... how to change major flaws in a culture???? I don't know... But focusing more on community rather than the individual might help. America is VERY into the individual. I doubt the overwhelming fixation on money and fame doesn't help either.
Its cultural but beyond simply the gun culture. We as a society seem to have done a poor job of teaching civility, particularly as the internet has proliferated, incivility has gotten way beyond worse.

Put simply, we as a nation are frustrated and cant deal with it.
And you don't trust your government, to me that plays a huge part in it. You're all so removed from your representatives and the relationship with them seems wholly adversarial

A lot of this has to do with the fact that too many of us have little or no education about government and even less participation.

mickeyrat · December 2015

brianlux said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

mickeyrat said:

PJ_Soul said:
Maybe the American education system can step it up. Like develop an actual curriculum aimed at raising future generations to not buy into the American gun culture and also how to deal with problems in non-violent ways. Again, while gun laws are a problem, the main issue is culture IMO (the gun culture and otherwise). That isn't exactly an easy thing to confront... how to change major flaws in a culture???? I don't know... But focusing more on community rather than the individual might help. America is VERY into the individual. I doubt the overwhelming fixation on money and fame doesn't help either.
Its cultural but beyond simply the gun culture. We as a society seem to have done a poor job of teaching civility, particularly as the internet has proliferated, incivility has gotten way beyond worse.

Put simply, we as a nation are frustrated and cant deal with it.
And you don't trust your government, to me that plays a huge part in it. You're all so removed from your representatives and the relationship with them seems wholly adversarial
A lot of this has to do with the fact that too many of us have little or no education about government and even less participation.

Gerrymandered districts. . 37 competative seats out of 435?

brianlux · December 2015

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

mickeyrat said:

PJ_Soul said:
Maybe the American education system can step it up. Like develop an actual curriculum aimed at raising future generations to not buy into the American gun culture and also how to deal with problems in non-violent ways. Again, while gun laws are a problem, the main issue is culture IMO (the gun culture and otherwise). That isn't exactly an easy thing to confront... how to change major flaws in a culture???? I don't know... But focusing more on community rather than the individual might help. America is VERY into the individual. I doubt the overwhelming fixation on money and fame doesn't help either.
Its cultural but beyond simply the gun culture. We as a society seem to have done a poor job of teaching civility, particularly as the internet has proliferated, incivility has gotten way beyond worse.

Put simply, we as a nation are frustrated and cant deal with it.
And you don't trust your government, to me that plays a huge part in it. You're all so removed from your representatives and the relationship with them seems wholly adversarial
A lot of this has to do with the fact that too many of us have little or no education about government and even less participation.
Gerrymandered districts. . 37 competative seats out of 435?

Ah yes, the magic moving markers!

ldent42 · December 2015

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

mickeyrat said:

PJ_Soul said:
Maybe the American education system can step it up. Like develop an actual curriculum aimed at raising future generations to not buy into the American gun culture and also how to deal with problems in non-violent ways. Again, while gun laws are a problem, the main issue is culture IMO (the gun culture and otherwise). That isn't exactly an easy thing to confront... how to change major flaws in a culture???? I don't know... But focusing more on community rather than the individual might help. America is VERY into the individual. I doubt the overwhelming fixation on money and fame doesn't help either.
Its cultural but beyond simply the gun culture. We as a society seem to have done a poor job of teaching civility, particularly as the internet has proliferated, incivility has gotten way beyond worse.

Put simply, we as a nation are frustrated and cant deal with it.
And you don't trust your government, to me that plays a huge part in it. You're all so removed from your representatives and the relationship with them seems wholly adversarial
A lot of this has to do with the fact that too many of us have little or no education about government and even less participation.
Gerrymandered districts. . 37 competative seats out of 435?

To illustrate Brian's point, I have no idea what this means^^

brianlux · December 2015

ldent42 said:

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

mickeyrat said:

PJ_Soul said:
Maybe the American education system can step it up. Like develop an actual curriculum aimed at raising future generations to not buy into the American gun culture and also how to deal with problems in non-violent ways. Again, while gun laws are a problem, the main issue is culture IMO (the gun culture and otherwise). That isn't exactly an easy thing to confront... how to change major flaws in a culture???? I don't know... But focusing more on community rather than the individual might help. America is VERY into the individual. I doubt the overwhelming fixation on money and fame doesn't help either.
Its cultural but beyond simply the gun culture. We as a society seem to have done a poor job of teaching civility, particularly as the internet has proliferated, incivility has gotten way beyond worse.

Put simply, we as a nation are frustrated and cant deal with it.
And you don't trust your government, to me that plays a huge part in it. You're all so removed from your representatives and the relationship with them seems wholly adversarial
A lot of this has to do with the fact that too many of us have little or no education about government and even less participation.
Gerrymandered districts. . 37 competative seats out of 435?
To illustrate Brian's point, I have no idea what this means^^

If I'm correct, it means moving district boundaries around to get your candidate in the back door. Not sure why the metaphor "the magic moving markers" popped into my head. Smoke and mirrors maybe?

Edit: None of knows all the in and outs of gov. Learning anything is good, more is better. I know I could learn a lot more, that's for sure.

BS44325 · December 2015

Halifax2TheMax said:
And to think there are folks on this forum who think nothing needs to change except more people should be armed and there should be less restrictions on firearm sales and ownership. And some of them advocate from the realitively much safer confines of Oh Canada.

I share your sadness.

Hmmm...I don't think I'm advocating for less restrictions. There you go being disingenuous as usual. You are the one demanding change and I have simply asked you what change are you proposing that will really make a difference. Your only answer is "in due time". You are practicing hashtag activism and are really advocating for nothing other then hotair and bluster. It is a sad waste of energy in a serious world.

BS44325 · December 2015

brianlux said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

mickeyrat said:

PJ_Soul said:
Maybe the American education system can step it up. Like develop an actual curriculum aimed at raising future generations to not buy into the American gun culture and also how to deal with problems in non-violent ways. Again, while gun laws are a problem, the main issue is culture IMO (the gun culture and otherwise). That isn't exactly an easy thing to confront... how to change major flaws in a culture???? I don't know... But focusing more on community rather than the individual might help. America is VERY into the individual. I doubt the overwhelming fixation on money and fame doesn't help either.
Its cultural but beyond simply the gun culture. We as a society seem to have done a poor job of teaching civility, particularly as the internet has proliferated, incivility has gotten way beyond worse.

Put simply, we as a nation are frustrated and cant deal with it.
And you don't trust your government, to me that plays a huge part in it. You're all so removed from your representatives and the relationship with them seems wholly adversarial
A lot of this has to do with the fact that too many of us have little or no education about government and even less participation.

I fully understand your government and what you are discussing is how difficult it is to make real change due to electoral barriers. What you are all avoiding on this thread though is what actual legislative change you are seeking? In 2008 the Democrats had a total majority and could have pushed through any law on guns they wanted. Where was that law? Where were all of you with your legislative proposals? The truth is there are no laws you can write that would have stopped any of these shootings. Deep down I think you all know this hence the constant exasperation.

Halifax2TheMax · December 2015

BS44325 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:
And to think there are folks on this forum who think nothing needs to change except more people should be armed and there should be less restrictions on firearm sales and ownership. And some of them advocate from the realitively much safer confines of Oh Canada.

I share your sadness.
Hmmm...I don't think I'm advocating for less restrictions. There you go being disingenuous as usual. You are the one demanding change and I have simply asked you what change are you proposing that will really make a difference. Your only answer is "in due time". You are practicing hashtag activism and are really advocating for nothing other then hotair and bluster. It is a sad waste of energy in a serious world.

And what exactly have you offered as solutions other than Islamophobia? I've asked you repeatedly to list the differences between Oh Canada and US law and I haven't gotten a response from the so called professor, other than the, "long gun registry" was a cluster. So, what are you advocating for other than, "confront the ideaology?" What does that even mean? How or what would you recommend be done? Bomb Yemen? Ban Islam? Wire taps? Public service announcements? Conversion to Christianity? What's your fucking solution to the gun violence in MY country?

mickeyrat · December 2015

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

mickeyrat said:

PJ_Soul said:
Maybe the American education system can step it up. Like develop an actual curriculum aimed at raising future generations to not buy into the American gun culture and also how to deal with problems in non-violent ways. Again, while gun laws are a problem, the main issue is culture IMO (the gun culture and otherwise). That isn't exactly an easy thing to confront... how to change major flaws in a culture???? I don't know... But focusing more on community rather than the individual might help. America is VERY into the individual. I doubt the overwhelming fixation on money and fame doesn't help either.
Its cultural but beyond simply the gun culture. We as a society seem to have done a poor job of teaching civility, particularly as the internet has proliferated, incivility has gotten way beyond worse.

Put simply, we as a nation are frustrated and cant deal with it.
And you don't trust your government, to me that plays a huge part in it. You're all so removed from your representatives and the relationship with them seems wholly adversarial
A lot of this has to do with the fact that too many of us have little or no education about government and even less participation.
Gerrymandered districts. . 37 competative seats out of 435?
Ah yes, the magic moving markers!

My state rep replys to emails. Governors office too. One of the senators I contact replys. State of 11 million people. Mostly party ralking points but they respond.

However I have yet to get anything more than a bullshit roboreply saying due to volume blah blah blah from my congressman. I saw one commercial and got one mailer from this douche each of the last 2 election cycles.

Halifax2TheMax · December 2015

And pardon the fuck out of me if I want to conduct fact base research and make a serious attempt at answering the questions to a very complex wide ranging issue while you spew forth your fact less conservative NRA talking points. In due time, in due time.

I have to remember that I'm addressing BS, BS that doesn't rely on facts and who thinks complex issues can be solved with simple solutions. Where the fuck did you get educated anyway?

How's Yemen working out for the Saudis? The Iran nuclear deal that you claimed was "dead." Taking on ISIS with those 130,000 Oh Canadian troops about to go over? And before you ask the relevancy, perfect examples of your "simple" solutions to complex problems. Keep drinking the neocon spin for your singular agenda.

BS44325 · December 2015

Halifax2TheMax said:
And pardon the fuck out of me if I want to conduct fact base research and make a serious attempt at answering the questions to a very complex wide ranging issue while you spew forth your fact less conservative NRA talking points. In due time, in due time.

I have to remember that I'm addressing BS, BS that doesn't rely on facts and who thinks complex issues can be solved with simple solutions. Where the fuck did you get educated anyway?

How's Yemen working out for the Saudis? The Iran nuclear deal that you claimed was "dead." Taking on ISIS with those 130,000 Oh Canadian troops about to go over? And before you ask the relevancy, perfect examples of your "simple" solutions to complex problems. Keep drinking the neocon spin for your singular agenda.

Your bluff was called and you are lashing out. I get it and will not hold it against you.

ldent42 · December 2015

oftenreading · December 2015

BS44325 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:
I need to stay away from AMT for a while. I understand what Halifax is doing, but reliving all these at the same time is too much.
I can appreciate how you feel in that regard, HFD, but at the same time, the insanity of gun related violence is super well illustrated by H2M's digging up these post here and it serves well as a reminder. I think we do need this kind of reminder. I think American society needs to look closely in the mirror and see how dysfunctional and sick in some ways it is. Thinking about that bugs me so much I can't even make the grammar work correctly.
it bothers me so much, and not just when these shootings happen. I honestly don't need the reminder. I understand some do, but I don't. I'm not faulting Halifax for doing it, just saying it can be tough for me to take. I've got young girls in school and it terrifies me to think that maybe one day this will happen in Canada. I certainly hope not, but it might. they do lockdown drills at school, but given our culture I don't think it would do much. The school doors are open to anyone during school hours, and all that is stopping anyone is a polite sign asking visitors to sign in at the office.

And my kids talk about it to us. "in case bad guys come". breaks my heart.

Unfortunately it has already happened in our country. One of the most famous cases was the Montreal Massacre by Marc Lepine

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Lépine

It is that tragedy which led to the Canadian Long Gun Registry which was a massive boondoggle that only target law abiding Canadian gun owners. It did nothing to reduce crime and/or gun related deaths.

There's a reason why you had to go back to Lepine in 1989 for an example. Since then there have only been 8 mass shootings in Canada. There were none between 2006 and 2014. It would be difficult to accurately measure a significant reduction anyway, given that frequency, regardless of the action taken. Posting about the long gun registry is just obfuscation of the essential issue of the relative availability of guns and its relation to gun homicides (and suicides).

Halifax2TheMax · December 2015

My bluff was called? When have you answered a question posed?

BS44325 · December 2015

oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:
I need to stay away from AMT for a while. I understand what Halifax is doing, but reliving all these at the same time is too much.
I can appreciate how you feel in that regard, HFD, but at the same time, the insanity of gun related violence is super well illustrated by H2M's digging up these post here and it serves well as a reminder. I think we do need this kind of reminder. I think American society needs to look closely in the mirror and see how dysfunctional and sick in some ways it is. Thinking about that bugs me so much I can't even make the grammar work correctly.
it bothers me so much, and not just when these shootings happen. I honestly don't need the reminder. I understand some do, but I don't. I'm not faulting Halifax for doing it, just saying it can be tough for me to take. I've got young girls in school and it terrifies me to think that maybe one day this will happen in Canada. I certainly hope not, but it might. they do lockdown drills at school, but given our culture I don't think it would do much. The school doors are open to anyone during school hours, and all that is stopping anyone is a polite sign asking visitors to sign in at the office.

And my kids talk about it to us. "in case bad guys come". breaks my heart.

Unfortunately it has already happened in our country. One of the most famous cases was the Montreal Massacre by Marc Lepine

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Lépine

It is that tragedy which led to the Canadian Long Gun Registry which was a massive boondoggle that only target law abiding Canadian gun owners. It did nothing to reduce crime and/or gun related deaths.
There's a reason why you had to go back to Lepine in 1989 for an example. Since then there have only been 8 mass shootings in Canada. There were none between 2006 and 2014. It would be difficult to accurately measure a significant reduction anyway, given that frequency, regardless of the action taken. Posting about the long gun registry is just obfuscation of the essential issue of the relative availability of guns and its relation to gun homicides (and suicides).

Fair but in actuality gun violence has decreased significantly in the US over the last twenty years even though the relative availability of guns has for the most part stayed the same or even increased since then. Relative availability certainly plays a roll in difference between the two countries but clearly it is not a direct cause of gun violence as a whole.

deadendp · December 2015

Faxxxi?

Halifax does his research.

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