Halifax does his research.

2

Comments

  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,939
    brianlux said:

    mickeyrat said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Maybe the American education system can step it up. Like develop an actual curriculum aimed at raising future generations to not buy into the American gun culture and also how to deal with problems in non-violent ways. Again, while gun laws are a problem, the main issue is culture IMO (the gun culture and otherwise). That isn't exactly an easy thing to confront... how to change major flaws in a culture???? I don't know... But focusing more on community rather than the individual might help. America is VERY into the individual. I doubt the overwhelming fixation on money and fame doesn't help either.

    Its cultural but beyond simply the gun culture. We as a society seem to have done a poor job of teaching civility, particularly as the internet has proliferated, incivility has gotten way beyond worse.

    Put simply, we as a nation are frustrated and cant deal with it.
    And you don't trust your government, to me that plays a huge part in it. You're all so removed from your representatives and the relationship with them seems wholly adversarial
    A lot of this has to do with the fact that too many of us have little or no education about government and even less participation.
    I fully understand your government and what you are discussing is how difficult it is to make real change due to electoral barriers. What you are all avoiding on this thread though is what actual legislative change you are seeking? In 2008 the Democrats had a total majority and could have pushed through any law on guns they wanted. Where was that law? Where were all of you with your legislative proposals? The truth is there are no laws you can write that would have stopped any of these shootings. Deep down I think you all know this hence the constant exasperation.
  • BS44325 said:

    And to think there are folks on this forum who think nothing needs to change except more people should be armed and there should be less restrictions on firearm sales and ownership. And some of them advocate from the realitively much safer confines of Oh Canada.

    I share your sadness.

    Hmmm...I don't think I'm advocating for less restrictions. There you go being disingenuous as usual. You are the one demanding change and I have simply asked you what change are you proposing that will really make a difference. Your only answer is "in due time". You are practicing hashtag activism and are really advocating for nothing other then hotair and bluster. It is a sad waste of energy in a serious world.
    And what exactly have you offered as solutions other than Islamophobia? I've asked you repeatedly to list the differences between Oh Canada and US law and I haven't gotten a response from the so called professor, other than the, "long gun registry" was a cluster. So, what are you advocating for other than, "confront the ideaology?" What does that even mean? How or what would you recommend be done? Bomb Yemen? Ban Islam? Wire taps? Public service announcements? Conversion to Christianity? What's your fucking solution to the gun violence in MY country?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 15,524
    brianlux said:

    mickeyrat said:

    brianlux said:

    mickeyrat said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Maybe the American education system can step it up. Like develop an actual curriculum aimed at raising future generations to not buy into the American gun culture and also how to deal with problems in non-violent ways. Again, while gun laws are a problem, the main issue is culture IMO (the gun culture and otherwise). That isn't exactly an easy thing to confront... how to change major flaws in a culture???? I don't know... But focusing more on community rather than the individual might help. America is VERY into the individual. I doubt the overwhelming fixation on money and fame doesn't help either.

    Its cultural but beyond simply the gun culture. We as a society seem to have done a poor job of teaching civility, particularly as the internet has proliferated, incivility has gotten way beyond worse.

    Put simply, we as a nation are frustrated and cant deal with it.
    And you don't trust your government, to me that plays a huge part in it. You're all so removed from your representatives and the relationship with them seems wholly adversarial
    A lot of this has to do with the fact that too many of us have little or no education about government and even less participation.
    Gerrymandered districts. . 37 competative seats out of 435?
    Ah yes, the magic moving markers!
    My state rep replys to emails. Governors office too. One of the senators I contact replys. State of 11 million people. Mostly party ralking points but they respond.


    However I have yet to get anything more than a bullshit roboreply saying due to volume blah blah blah from my congressman. I saw one commercial and got one mailer from this douche each of the last 2 election cycles.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • And pardon the fuck out of me if I want to conduct fact base research and make a serious attempt at answering the questions to a very complex wide ranging issue while you spew forth your fact less conservative NRA talking points. In due time, in due time.

    I have to remember that I'm addressing BS, BS that doesn't rely on facts and who thinks complex issues can be solved with simple solutions. Where the fuck did you get educated anyway?

    How's Yemen working out for the Saudis? The Iran nuclear deal that you claimed was "dead." Taking on ISIS with those 130,000 Oh Canadian troops about to go over? And before you ask the relevancy, perfect examples of your "simple" solutions to complex problems. Keep drinking the neocon spin for your singular agenda.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,939

    And pardon the fuck out of me if I want to conduct fact base research and make a serious attempt at answering the questions to a very complex wide ranging issue while you spew forth your fact less conservative NRA talking points. In due time, in due time.

    I have to remember that I'm addressing BS, BS that doesn't rely on facts and who thinks complex issues can be solved with simple solutions. Where the fuck did you get educated anyway?

    How's Yemen working out for the Saudis? The Iran nuclear deal that you claimed was "dead." Taking on ISIS with those 130,000 Oh Canadian troops about to go over? And before you ask the relevancy, perfect examples of your "simple" solutions to complex problems. Keep drinking the neocon spin for your singular agenda.

    Your bluff was called and you are lashing out. I get it and will not hold it against you.
  • ldent42ldent42 NYCPosts: 7,843

    :unamused:
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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,381
    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    I need to stay away from AMT for a while. I understand what Halifax is doing, but reliving all these at the same time is too much.

    I can appreciate how you feel in that regard, HFD, but at the same time, the insanity of gun related violence is super well illustrated by H2M's digging up these post here and it serves well as a reminder. I think we do need this kind of reminder. I think American society needs to look closely in the mirror and see how dysfunctional and sick in some ways it is. Thinking about that bugs me so much I can't even make the grammar work correctly.
    it bothers me so much, and not just when these shootings happen. I honestly don't need the reminder. I understand some do, but I don't. I'm not faulting Halifax for doing it, just saying it can be tough for me to take. I've got young girls in school and it terrifies me to think that maybe one day this will happen in Canada. I certainly hope not, but it might. they do lockdown drills at school, but given our culture I don't think it would do much. The school doors are open to anyone during school hours, and all that is stopping anyone is a polite sign asking visitors to sign in at the office.

    And my kids talk about it to us. "in case bad guys come". breaks my heart.

    Unfortunately it has already happened in our country. One of the most famous cases was the Montreal Massacre by Marc Lepine

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Lépine

    It is that tragedy which led to the Canadian Long Gun Registry which was a massive boondoggle that only target law abiding Canadian gun owners. It did nothing to reduce crime and/or gun related deaths.
    There's a reason why you had to go back to Lepine in 1989 for an example. Since then there have only been 8 mass shootings in Canada. There were none between 2006 and 2014. It would be difficult to accurately measure a significant reduction anyway, given that frequency, regardless of the action taken. Posting about the long gun registry is just obfuscation of the essential issue of the relative availability of guns and its relation to gun homicides (and suicides).
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • My bluff was called? When have you answered a question posed?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,939

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    I need to stay away from AMT for a while. I understand what Halifax is doing, but reliving all these at the same time is too much.

    I can appreciate how you feel in that regard, HFD, but at the same time, the insanity of gun related violence is super well illustrated by H2M's digging up these post here and it serves well as a reminder. I think we do need this kind of reminder. I think American society needs to look closely in the mirror and see how dysfunctional and sick in some ways it is. Thinking about that bugs me so much I can't even make the grammar work correctly.
    it bothers me so much, and not just when these shootings happen. I honestly don't need the reminder. I understand some do, but I don't. I'm not faulting Halifax for doing it, just saying it can be tough for me to take. I've got young girls in school and it terrifies me to think that maybe one day this will happen in Canada. I certainly hope not, but it might. they do lockdown drills at school, but given our culture I don't think it would do much. The school doors are open to anyone during school hours, and all that is stopping anyone is a polite sign asking visitors to sign in at the office.

    And my kids talk about it to us. "in case bad guys come". breaks my heart.

    Unfortunately it has already happened in our country. One of the most famous cases was the Montreal Massacre by Marc Lepine

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Lépine

    It is that tragedy which led to the Canadian Long Gun Registry which was a massive boondoggle that only target law abiding Canadian gun owners. It did nothing to reduce crime and/or gun related deaths.
    There's a reason why you had to go back to Lepine in 1989 for an example. Since then there have only been 8 mass shootings in Canada. There were none between 2006 and 2014. It would be difficult to accurately measure a significant reduction anyway, given that frequency, regardless of the action taken. Posting about the long gun registry is just obfuscation of the essential issue of the relative availability of guns and its relation to gun homicides (and suicides).
    Fair but in actuality gun violence has decreased significantly in the US over the last twenty years even though the relative availability of guns has for the most part stayed the same or even increased since then. Relative availability certainly plays a roll in difference between the two countries but clearly it is not a direct cause of gun violence as a whole.
  • deadendpdeadendp Northeast OhioPosts: 8,156
    Faxxxi? :hug:
    2014: Cincinnati
    2016: Lexington and Wrigley 1
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,381
    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    I need to stay away from AMT for a while. I understand what Halifax is doing, but reliving all these at the same time is too much.

    I can appreciate how you feel in that regard, HFD, but at the same time, the insanity of gun related violence is super well illustrated by H2M's digging up these post here and it serves well as a reminder. I think we do need this kind of reminder. I think American society needs to look closely in the mirror and see how dysfunctional and sick in some ways it is. Thinking about that bugs me so much I can't even make the grammar work correctly.
    it bothers me so much, and not just when these shootings happen. I honestly don't need the reminder. I understand some do, but I don't. I'm not faulting Halifax for doing it, just saying it can be tough for me to take. I've got young girls in school and it terrifies me to think that maybe one day this will happen in Canada. I certainly hope not, but it might. they do lockdown drills at school, but given our culture I don't think it would do much. The school doors are open to anyone during school hours, and all that is stopping anyone is a polite sign asking visitors to sign in at the office.

    And my kids talk about it to us. "in case bad guys come". breaks my heart.

    Unfortunately it has already happened in our country. One of the most famous cases was the Montreal Massacre by Marc Lepine

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Lépine

    It is that tragedy which led to the Canadian Long Gun Registry which was a massive boondoggle that only target law abiding Canadian gun owners. It did nothing to reduce crime and/or gun related deaths.
    There's a reason why you had to go back to Lepine in 1989 for an example. Since then there have only been 8 mass shootings in Canada. There were none between 2006 and 2014. It would be difficult to accurately measure a significant reduction anyway, given that frequency, regardless of the action taken. Posting about the long gun registry is just obfuscation of the essential issue of the relative availability of guns and its relation to gun homicides (and suicides).
    Fair but in actuality gun violence has decreased significantly in the US over the last twenty years even though the relative availability of guns has for the most part stayed the same or even increased since then. Relative availability certainly plays a roll in difference between the two countries but clearly it is not a direct cause of gun violence as a whole.
    No, that's not "clear" to me at all. Relative availability plays a huge role. It is the one consistent difference between all other countries and the US. The US has a huge percentage of the world's civilian owned guns, far outstripping any other country. Gun violence overall has declined, just like violent crime over much of the world has declined, but specific types of gun violence in the US have increased. There are intervening factors but the common denominator is the easy availability of guns.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 15,524

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    I need to stay away from AMT for a while. I understand what Halifax is doing, but reliving all these at the same time is too much.

    I can appreciate how you feel in that regard, HFD, but at the same time, the insanity of gun related violence is super well illustrated by H2M's digging up these post here and it serves well as a reminder. I think we do need this kind of reminder. I think American society needs to look closely in the mirror and see how dysfunctional and sick in some ways it is. Thinking about that bugs me so much I can't even make the grammar work correctly.
    it bothers me so much, and not just when these shootings happen. I honestly don't need the reminder. I understand some do, but I don't. I'm not faulting Halifax for doing it, just saying it can be tough for me to take. I've got young girls in school and it terrifies me to think that maybe one day this will happen in Canada. I certainly hope not, but it might. they do lockdown drills at school, but given our culture I don't think it would do much. The school doors are open to anyone during school hours, and all that is stopping anyone is a polite sign asking visitors to sign in at the office.

    And my kids talk about it to us. "in case bad guys come". breaks my heart.

    Unfortunately it has already happened in our country. One of the most famous cases was the Montreal Massacre by Marc Lepine

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Lépine

    It is that tragedy which led to the Canadian Long Gun Registry which was a massive boondoggle that only target law abiding Canadian gun owners. It did nothing to reduce crime and/or gun related deaths.
    There's a reason why you had to go back to Lepine in 1989 for an example. Since then there have only been 8 mass shootings in Canada. There were none between 2006 and 2014. It would be difficult to accurately measure a significant reduction anyway, given that frequency, regardless of the action taken. Posting about the long gun registry is just obfuscation of the essential issue of the relative availability of guns and its relation to gun homicides (and suicides).
    Fair but in actuality gun violence has decreased significantly in the US over the last twenty years even though the relative availability of guns has for the most part stayed the same or even increased since then. Relative availability certainly plays a roll in difference between the two countries but clearly it is not a direct cause of gun violence as a whole.
    No, that's not "clear" to me at all. Relative availability plays a huge role. It is the one consistent difference between all other countries and the US. The US has a huge percentage of the world's civilian owned guns, far outstripping any other country. Gun violence overall has declined, just like violent crime over much of the world has declined, but specific types of gun violence in the US have increased. There are intervening factors but the common denominator is the easy availability of guns.
    42% of the civilian owned guns worldwide are possessed by Americans. With roughly 5% of the worlds population.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,299
    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    mickeyrat said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Maybe the American education system can step it up. Like develop an actual curriculum aimed at raising future generations to not buy into the American gun culture and also how to deal with problems in non-violent ways. Again, while gun laws are a problem, the main issue is culture IMO (the gun culture and otherwise). That isn't exactly an easy thing to confront... how to change major flaws in a culture???? I don't know... But focusing more on community rather than the individual might help. America is VERY into the individual. I doubt the overwhelming fixation on money and fame doesn't help either.

    Its cultural but beyond simply the gun culture. We as a society seem to have done a poor job of teaching civility, particularly as the internet has proliferated, incivility has gotten way beyond worse.

    Put simply, we as a nation are frustrated and cant deal with it.
    And you don't trust your government, to me that plays a huge part in it. You're all so removed from your representatives and the relationship with them seems wholly adversarial
    A lot of this has to do with the fact that too many of us have little or no education about government and even less participation.
    I fully understand your government and what you are discussing is how difficult it is to make real change due to electoral barriers. What you are all avoiding on this thread though is what actual legislative change you are seeking? In 2008 the Democrats had a total majority and could have pushed through any law on guns they wanted. Where was that law? Where were all of you with your legislative proposals? The truth is there are no laws you can write that would have stopped any of these shootings. Deep down I think you all know this hence the constant exasperation.
    Oh hell no, man. That is not what I think on the surface, in the gut, or deep down (actually, deep down right now is that extra helping of broccoli and cheese on toast that's talking back). No, not even close. In my own small way I've participated in helping make laws pass. I've seen it work. I don't buy your negative take, not at all and with absolutely no exasperation. With a little humor maybe, but that's about it.



    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • rollingsrollings unknownPosts: 6,775
    mickeyrat said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    I need to stay away from AMT for a while. I understand what Halifax is doing, but reliving all these at the same time is too much.

    I can appreciate how you feel in that regard, HFD, but at the same time, the insanity of gun related violence is super well illustrated by H2M's digging up these post here and it serves well as a reminder. I think we do need this kind of reminder. I think American society needs to look closely in the mirror and see how dysfunctional and sick in some ways it is. Thinking about that bugs me so much I can't even make the grammar work correctly.
    it bothers me so much, and not just when these shootings happen. I honestly don't need the reminder. I understand some do, but I don't. I'm not faulting Halifax for doing it, just saying it can be tough for me to take. I've got young girls in school and it terrifies me to think that maybe one day this will happen in Canada. I certainly hope not, but it might. they do lockdown drills at school, but given our culture I don't think it would do much. The school doors are open to anyone during school hours, and all that is stopping anyone is a polite sign asking visitors to sign in at the office.

    And my kids talk about it to us. "in case bad guys come". breaks my heart.

    Unfortunately it has already happened in our country. One of the most famous cases was the Montreal Massacre by Marc Lepine

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Lépine

    It is that tragedy which led to the Canadian Long Gun Registry which was a massive boondoggle that only target law abiding Canadian gun owners. It did nothing to reduce crime and/or gun related deaths.
    There's a reason why you had to go back to Lepine in 1989 for an example. Since then there have only been 8 mass shootings in Canada. There were none between 2006 and 2014. It would be difficult to accurately measure a significant reduction anyway, given that frequency, regardless of the action taken. Posting about the long gun registry is just obfuscation of the essential issue of the relative availability of guns and its relation to gun homicides (and suicides).
    Fair but in actuality gun violence has decreased significantly in the US over the last twenty years even though the relative availability of guns has for the most part stayed the same or even increased since then. Relative availability certainly plays a roll in difference between the two countries but clearly it is not a direct cause of gun violence as a whole.
    No, that's not "clear" to me at all. Relative availability plays a huge role. It is the one consistent difference between all other countries and the US. The US has a huge percentage of the world's civilian owned guns, far outstripping any other country. Gun violence overall has declined, just like violent crime over much of the world has declined, but specific types of gun violence in the US have increased. There are intervening factors but the common denominator is the easy availability of guns.
    42% of the civilian owned guns worldwide are possessed by Americans. With roughly 5% of the worlds population.
    Wow! Source?
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 15,524
    rollings said:

    mickeyrat said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    I need to stay away from AMT for a while. I understand what Halifax is doing, but reliving all these at the same time is too much.

    I can appreciate how you feel in that regard, HFD, but at the same time, the insanity of gun related violence is super well illustrated by H2M's digging up these post here and it serves well as a reminder. I think we do need this kind of reminder. I think American society needs to look closely in the mirror and see how dysfunctional and sick in some ways it is. Thinking about that bugs me so much I can't even make the grammar work correctly.
    it bothers me so much, and not just when these shootings happen. I honestly don't need the reminder. I understand some do, but I don't. I'm not faulting Halifax for doing it, just saying it can be tough for me to take. I've got young girls in school and it terrifies me to think that maybe one day this will happen in Canada. I certainly hope not, but it might. they do lockdown drills at school, but given our culture I don't think it would do much. The school doors are open to anyone during school hours, and all that is stopping anyone is a polite sign asking visitors to sign in at the office.

    And my kids talk about it to us. "in case bad guys come". breaks my heart.

    Unfortunately it has already happened in our country. One of the most famous cases was the Montreal Massacre by Marc Lepine

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Lépine

    It is that tragedy which led to the Canadian Long Gun Registry which was a massive boondoggle that only target law abiding Canadian gun owners. It did nothing to reduce crime and/or gun related deaths.
    There's a reason why you had to go back to Lepine in 1989 for an example. Since then there have only been 8 mass shootings in Canada. There were none between 2006 and 2014. It would be difficult to accurately measure a significant reduction anyway, given that frequency, regardless of the action taken. Posting about the long gun registry is just obfuscation of the essential issue of the relative availability of guns and its relation to gun homicides (and suicides).
    Fair but in actuality gun violence has decreased significantly in the US over the last twenty years even though the relative availability of guns has for the most part stayed the same or even increased since then. Relative availability certainly plays a roll in difference between the two countries but clearly it is not a direct cause of gun violence as a whole.
    No, that's not "clear" to me at all. Relative availability plays a huge role. It is the one consistent difference between all other countries and the US. The US has a huge percentage of the world's civilian owned guns, far outstripping any other country. Gun violence overall has declined, just like violent crime over much of the world has declined, but specific types of gun violence in the US have increased. There are intervening factors but the common denominator is the easy availability of guns.
    42% of the civilian owned guns worldwide are possessed by Americans. With roughly 5% of the worlds population.
    Wow! Source?
    Number of sources that draw from data collected in the small arms survey.

    Google gun ownership worldwide. Choose any link you like.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • rollingsrollings unknownPosts: 6,775
    mickeyrat said:

    rollings said:

    mickeyrat said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    I need to stay away from AMT for a while. I understand what Halifax is doing, but reliving all these at the same time is too much.

    I can appreciate how you feel in that regard, HFD, but at the same time, the insanity of gun related violence is super well illustrated by H2M's digging up these post here and it serves well as a reminder. I think we do need this kind of reminder. I think American society needs to look closely in the mirror and see how dysfunctional and sick in some ways it is. Thinking about that bugs me so much I can't even make the grammar work correctly.
    it bothers me so much, and not just when these shootings happen. I honestly don't need the reminder. I understand some do, but I don't. I'm not faulting Halifax for doing it, just saying it can be tough for me to take. I've got young girls in school and it terrifies me to think that maybe one day this will happen in Canada. I certainly hope not, but it might. they do lockdown drills at school, but given our culture I don't think it would do much. The school doors are open to anyone during school hours, and all that is stopping anyone is a polite sign asking visitors to sign in at the office.

    And my kids talk about it to us. "in case bad guys come". breaks my heart.

    Unfortunately it has already happened in our country. One of the most famous cases was the Montreal Massacre by Marc Lepine

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Lépine

    It is that tragedy which led to the Canadian Long Gun Registry which was a massive boondoggle that only target law abiding Canadian gun owners. It did nothing to reduce crime and/or gun related deaths.
    There's a reason why you had to go back to Lepine in 1989 for an example. Since then there have only been 8 mass shootings in Canada. There were none between 2006 and 2014. It would be difficult to accurately measure a significant reduction anyway, given that frequency, regardless of the action taken. Posting about the long gun registry is just obfuscation of the essential issue of the relative availability of guns and its relation to gun homicides (and suicides).
    Fair but in actuality gun violence has decreased significantly in the US over the last twenty years even though the relative availability of guns has for the most part stayed the same or even increased since then. Relative availability certainly plays a roll in difference between the two countries but clearly it is not a direct cause of gun violence as a whole.
    No, that's not "clear" to me at all. Relative availability plays a huge role. It is the one consistent difference between all other countries and the US. The US has a huge percentage of the world's civilian owned guns, far outstripping any other country. Gun violence overall has declined, just like violent crime over much of the world has declined, but specific types of gun violence in the US have increased. There are intervening factors but the common denominator is the easy availability of guns.
    42% of the civilian owned guns worldwide are possessed by Americans. With roughly 5% of the worlds population.
    Wow! Source?
    Number of sources that draw from data collected in the small arms survey.

    Google gun ownership worldwide. Choose any link you like.
    NAWWWT! too lazy. that's why I askedt you!
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 15,524
    rollings said:

    mickeyrat said:

    rollings said:

    mickeyrat said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    I need to stay away from AMT for a while. I understand what Halifax is doing, but reliving all these at the same time is too much.

    I can appreciate how you feel in that regard, HFD, but at the same time, the insanity of gun related violence is super well illustrated by H2M's digging up these post here and it serves well as a reminder. I think we do need this kind of reminder. I think American society needs to look closely in the mirror and see how dysfunctional and sick in some ways it is. Thinking about that bugs me so much I can't even make the grammar work correctly.
    it bothers me so much, and not just when these shootings happen. I honestly don't need the reminder. I understand some do, but I don't. I'm not faulting Halifax for doing it, just saying it can be tough for me to take. I've got young girls in school and it terrifies me to think that maybe one day this will happen in Canada. I certainly hope not, but it might. they do lockdown drills at school, but given our culture I don't think it would do much. The school doors are open to anyone during school hours, and all that is stopping anyone is a polite sign asking visitors to sign in at the office.

    And my kids talk about it to us. "in case bad guys come". breaks my heart.

    Unfortunately it has already happened in our country. One of the most famous cases was the Montreal Massacre by Marc Lepine

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Lépine

    It is that tragedy which led to the Canadian Long Gun Registry which was a massive boondoggle that only target law abiding Canadian gun owners. It did nothing to reduce crime and/or gun related deaths.
    There's a reason why you had to go back to Lepine in 1989 for an example. Since then there have only been 8 mass shootings in Canada. There were none between 2006 and 2014. It would be difficult to accurately measure a significant reduction anyway, given that frequency, regardless of the action taken. Posting about the long gun registry is just obfuscation of the essential issue of the relative availability of guns and its relation to gun homicides (and suicides).
    Fair but in actuality gun violence has decreased significantly in the US over the last twenty years even though the relative availability of guns has for the most part stayed the same or even increased since then. Relative availability certainly plays a roll in difference between the two countries but clearly it is not a direct cause of gun violence as a whole.
    No, that's not "clear" to me at all. Relative availability plays a huge role. It is the one consistent difference between all other countries and the US. The US has a huge percentage of the world's civilian owned guns, far outstripping any other country. Gun violence overall has declined, just like violent crime over much of the world has declined, but specific types of gun violence in the US have increased. There are intervening factors but the common denominator is the easy availability of guns.
    42% of the civilian owned guns worldwide are possessed by Americans. With roughly 5% of the worlds population.
    Wow! Source?
    Number of sources that draw from data collected in the small arms survey.

    Google gun ownership worldwide. Choose any link you like.
    NAWWWT! too lazy. that's why I askedt you!
    My answer is I didnt want to skew what was found.

    So the source is the small arms survey. It states , as of 2015 that the US has 270,000,000 guns in private hands. That equates to 89 weapons per 100 people.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,299
    mickeyrat said:

    rollings said:

    mickeyrat said:

    rollings said:

    mickeyrat said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    I need to stay away from AMT for a while. I understand what Halifax is doing, but reliving all these at the same time is too much.

    I can appreciate how you feel in that regard, HFD, but at the same time, the insanity of gun related violence is super well illustrated by H2M's digging up these post here and it serves well as a reminder. I think we do need this kind of reminder. I think American society needs to look closely in the mirror and see how dysfunctional and sick in some ways it is. Thinking about that bugs me so much I can't even make the grammar work correctly.
    it bothers me so much, and not just when these shootings happen. I honestly don't need the reminder. I understand some do, but I don't. I'm not faulting Halifax for doing it, just saying it can be tough for me to take. I've got young girls in school and it terrifies me to think that maybe one day this will happen in Canada. I certainly hope not, but it might. they do lockdown drills at school, but given our culture I don't think it would do much. The school doors are open to anyone during school hours, and all that is stopping anyone is a polite sign asking visitors to sign in at the office.

    And my kids talk about it to us. "in case bad guys come". breaks my heart.

    Unfortunately it has already happened in our country. One of the most famous cases was the Montreal Massacre by Marc Lepine

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Lépine

    It is that tragedy which led to the Canadian Long Gun Registry which was a massive boondoggle that only target law abiding Canadian gun owners. It did nothing to reduce crime and/or gun related deaths.
    There's a reason why you had to go back to Lepine in 1989 for an example. Since then there have only been 8 mass shootings in Canada. There were none between 2006 and 2014. It would be difficult to accurately measure a significant reduction anyway, given that frequency, regardless of the action taken. Posting about the long gun registry is just obfuscation of the essential issue of the relative availability of guns and its relation to gun homicides (and suicides).
    Fair but in actuality gun violence has decreased significantly in the US over the last twenty years even though the relative availability of guns has for the most part stayed the same or even increased since then. Relative availability certainly plays a roll in difference between the two countries but clearly it is not a direct cause of gun violence as a whole.
    No, that's not "clear" to me at all. Relative availability plays a huge role. It is the one consistent difference between all other countries and the US. The US has a huge percentage of the world's civilian owned guns, far outstripping any other country. Gun violence overall has declined, just like violent crime over much of the world has declined, but specific types of gun violence in the US have increased. There are intervening factors but the common denominator is the easy availability of guns.
    42% of the civilian owned guns worldwide are possessed by Americans. With roughly 5% of the worlds population.
    Wow! Source?
    Number of sources that draw from data collected in the small arms survey.

    Google gun ownership worldwide. Choose any link you like.
    NAWWWT! too lazy. that's why I askedt you!
    My answer is I didnt want to skew what was found.

    So the source is the small arms survey. It states , as of 2015 that the US has 270,000,000 guns in private hands. That equates to 89 weapons per 100 people.
    Thems a lotta guns!
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,177
    And nothing has changed except it’s gotten worse, more frequent. Nice.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,299
    And nothing has changed except it’s gotten worse, more frequent. Nice.
    Sad but mostly true.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,643
    Everyday we are risking our lives just by going to work ! Shootings happen in every scenario possible...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 3,648
    Everyday we are risking our lives just by going to work ! Shootings happen in every scenario possible...
    Actually it’s every time we leave the house. I’m always on some level of alert, no matter where I go. It’s sad it has come to that. 
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,643
    bbiggs said:
    Everyday we are risking our lives just by going to work ! Shootings happen in every scenario possible...
    Actually it’s every time we leave the house. I’m always on some level of alert, no matter where I go. It’s sad it has come to that. 
    Sad indeed ..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,011
    Everyday we are risking our lives just by going to work ! Shootings happen in every scenario possible...
    Don't you have a better chance of being killed in a car crash than getting shot?
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 1,847
    edited September 4
    Everyday we are risking our lives just by going to work ! Shootings happen in every scenario possible...
    Don't you have a better chance of being killed in a car crash than getting shot?
    Over 30,000 every year in the US since the 1940s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year

    It is the most dangerous thing most of us do on a daily basis.  I don't think that lessens the trouble of our gun culture, but the drive is far more dangerous than what may happen at the destination.  We're just so desensitized to it and accept it.  The gun crowd probably wants us to get that point with mass shootings.
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,177
    OnWis97 said:
    Everyday we are risking our lives just by going to work ! Shootings happen in every scenario possible...
    Don't you have a better chance of being killed in a car crash than getting shot?
    Over 30,000 every year in the US since the 1940s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year

    It is the most dangerous thing most of us do on a daily basis.  I don't think that lessens the trouble of our gun culture, but the drive is far more dangerous than what may happen at the destination.  We're just so desensitized to it and accept it.  The gun crowd probably wants us to get that point with mass shootings.
    We don’t just “accept” it. We’re constantly making roads, cars and drivers safer, passing and enforcing laws to get a desired result. Compare that 30,000 deaths per year to vehicle miles driven, number of cars on the road and number of licensed drivers and you’ll see progress on reducing automobile deaths. With guns, it seems the opposite. Less gun owners, more guns, less restrictions and the numbers of deaths have stayed constant. And mass shootings have increased.

    In my lifetime I’ve seen the following regarding making driving safer:

    speedlimits set to road conditions 
    drinking age raised to 21 nationally
    curfews for new drivers
    DUI laws implemented and enforced
    mandatory seat belt laws
    seat belts going from non-existence to lap belts to three point and car seats for babies and kids
    technology in cars like lane departure warnings
    delayed traffic signaling 
    airbags
    road & highway design standards 

    And the list goes on and on. The assault weapons ban expired in 2004. What other “safety” laws as they relate to guns has been passed since then?
     
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,011
    OnWis97 said:
    Everyday we are risking our lives just by going to work ! Shootings happen in every scenario possible...
    Don't you have a better chance of being killed in a car crash than getting shot?
    Over 30,000 every year in the US since the 1940s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year

    It is the most dangerous thing most of us do on a daily basis.  I don't think that lessens the trouble of our gun culture, but the drive is far more dangerous than what may happen at the destination.  We're just so desensitized to it and accept it.  The gun crowd probably wants us to get that point with mass shootings.
    We don’t just “accept” it. We’re constantly making roads, cars and drivers safer, passing and enforcing laws to get a desired result. Compare that 30,000 deaths per year to vehicle miles driven, number of cars on the road and number of licensed drivers and you’ll see progress on reducing automobile deaths. With guns, it seems the opposite. Less gun owners, more guns, less restrictions and the numbers of deaths have stayed constant. And mass shootings have increased.

    In my lifetime I’ve seen the following regarding making driving safer:

    speedlimits set to road conditions 
    drinking age raised to 21 nationally
    curfews for new drivers
    DUI laws implemented and enforced
    mandatory seat belt laws
    seat belts going from non-existence to lap belts to three point and car seats for babies and kids
    technology in cars like lane departure warnings
    delayed traffic signaling 
    airbags
    road & highway design standards 

    And the list goes on and on. The assault weapons ban expired in 2004. What other “safety” laws as they relate to guns has been passed since then?
     
    Make all cars have a governed speed of 60MPH and I will listen to this further.  While cars have triple digits still on the dashboard this is rather moot.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,177
    OnWis97 said:
    Everyday we are risking our lives just by going to work ! Shootings happen in every scenario possible...
    Don't you have a better chance of being killed in a car crash than getting shot?
    Over 30,000 every year in the US since the 1940s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year

    It is the most dangerous thing most of us do on a daily basis.  I don't think that lessens the trouble of our gun culture, but the drive is far more dangerous than what may happen at the destination.  We're just so desensitized to it and accept it.  The gun crowd probably wants us to get that point with mass shootings.
    We don’t just “accept” it. We’re constantly making roads, cars and drivers safer, passing and enforcing laws to get a desired result. Compare that 30,000 deaths per year to vehicle miles driven, number of cars on the road and number of licensed drivers and you’ll see progress on reducing automobile deaths. With guns, it seems the opposite. Less gun owners, more guns, less restrictions and the numbers of deaths have stayed constant. And mass shootings have increased.

    In my lifetime I’ve seen the following regarding making driving safer:

    speedlimits set to road conditions 
    drinking age raised to 21 nationally
    curfews for new drivers
    DUI laws implemented and enforced
    mandatory seat belt laws
    seat belts going from non-existence to lap belts to three point and car seats for babies and kids
    technology in cars like lane departure warnings
    delayed traffic signaling 
    airbags
    road & highway design standards 

    And the list goes on and on. The assault weapons ban expired in 2004. What other “safety” laws as they relate to guns has been passed since then?
     
    Make all cars have a governed speed of 60MPH and I will listen to this further.  While cars have triple digits still on the dashboard this is rather moot.
    Preposterous. That’s like saying, “make all guns single shot muskets with powder and musket ball,” and I’ll listen to your gun rights argument. 
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,011
    OnWis97 said:
    Everyday we are risking our lives just by going to work ! Shootings happen in every scenario possible...
    Don't you have a better chance of being killed in a car crash than getting shot?
    Over 30,000 every year in the US since the 1940s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year

    It is the most dangerous thing most of us do on a daily basis.  I don't think that lessens the trouble of our gun culture, but the drive is far more dangerous than what may happen at the destination.  We're just so desensitized to it and accept it.  The gun crowd probably wants us to get that point with mass shootings.
    We don’t just “accept” it. We’re constantly making roads, cars and drivers safer, passing and enforcing laws to get a desired result. Compare that 30,000 deaths per year to vehicle miles driven, number of cars on the road and number of licensed drivers and you’ll see progress on reducing automobile deaths. With guns, it seems the opposite. Less gun owners, more guns, less restrictions and the numbers of deaths have stayed constant. And mass shootings have increased.

    In my lifetime I’ve seen the following regarding making driving safer:

    speedlimits set to road conditions 
    drinking age raised to 21 nationally
    curfews for new drivers
    DUI laws implemented and enforced
    mandatory seat belt laws
    seat belts going from non-existence to lap belts to three point and car seats for babies and kids
    technology in cars like lane departure warnings
    delayed traffic signaling 
    airbags
    road & highway design standards 

    And the list goes on and on. The assault weapons ban expired in 2004. What other “safety” laws as they relate to guns has been passed since then?
     
    Make all cars have a governed speed of 60MPH and I will listen to this further.  While cars have triple digits still on the dashboard this is rather moot.
    Preposterous. That’s like saying, “make all guns single shot muskets with powder and musket ball,” and I’ll listen to your gun rights argument. 
    No quite different.  No mention of muskets in the constitution.

    No mention of cars in the constitution either now that I think of it?

    My argument is if you want to stop cars from killing people limit them in speed.  I can use the same argument on cars and guns though.  Why do I need a car that can do 120mph?  Because it's fun.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 15,524
    edited September 5
    OnWis97 said:
    Everyday we are risking our lives just by going to work ! Shootings happen in every scenario possible...
    Don't you have a better chance of being killed in a car crash than getting shot?
    Over 30,000 every year in the US since the 1940s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year

    It is the most dangerous thing most of us do on a daily basis.  I don't think that lessens the trouble of our gun culture, but the drive is far more dangerous than what may happen at the destination.  We're just so desensitized to it and accept it.  The gun crowd probably wants us to get that point with mass shootings.
    We don’t just “accept” it. We’re constantly making roads, cars and drivers safer, passing and enforcing laws to get a desired result. Compare that 30,000 deaths per year to vehicle miles driven, number of cars on the road and number of licensed drivers and you’ll see progress on reducing automobile deaths. With guns, it seems the opposite. Less gun owners, more guns, less restrictions and the numbers of deaths have stayed constant. And mass shootings have increased.

    In my lifetime I’ve seen the following regarding making driving safer:

    speedlimits set to road conditions 
    drinking age raised to 21 nationally
    curfews for new drivers
    DUI laws implemented and enforced
    mandatory seat belt laws
    seat belts going from non-existence to lap belts to three point and car seats for babies and kids
    technology in cars like lane departure warnings
    delayed traffic signaling 
    airbags
    road & highway design standards 

    And the list goes on and on. The assault weapons ban expired in 2004. What other “safety” laws as they relate to guns has been passed since then?
     
    Make all cars have a governed speed of 60MPH and I will listen to this further.  While cars have triple digits still on the dashboard this is rather moot.
    Preposterous. That’s like saying, “make all guns single shot muskets with powder and musket ball,” and I’ll listen to your gun rights argument. 
    No quite different.  No mention of muskets in the constitution.

    No mention of cars in the constitution either now that I think of it?

    My argument is if you want to stop cars from killing people limit them in speed.  I can use the same argument on cars and guns though.  Why do I need a car that can do 120mph?  Because it's fun.
    crash mitagation is standard now on all commercial trucks.  its coming to cars too......PITA but it works. dramatically increasd the number of miles driven before an incident at my work. in fact they are still counting. we get video played off certain crash avoidances. it also displays dumbfucks in cars pulling stupid shit.
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