Turns Out People Get Angry When You Say White Americans Are Terroriosts Too....

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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 51,019
    edited December 2015
    bootlegger10 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I'd consider the attacks on US mosques more a terrorist act than this senseless tragedy.

    I get this twit was motivated with his ideology, but it feels more of a nutjob being a nutjob than it does a calculated, planned and systematic attack.

    People can call it what they want though- it, ultimately, makes no difference. People are dead because some mutant felt the need to express himself through intensely violent methods.

    Sure... although it brings up more issues than that. An attack on PP/the right to choose deserves special attention. It highlights the political issue of abortion, which is an issue still raging in the US. Being in Canada that fact kind of blows my mind.
    I can never understand why people can't comprehend that some think killing a fetus is "wrong". If abortion is legal I'm not going to prevent someone from doing it, but I don't think it is strange that someone can think it is murder. To me, two reasonable people can have differing views on abortion.
    I couldn't care less how an individual thinks about it. All I care about is women having the right to choose what they do with their own bodies. It doesn't blow my mind that some people think it's wrong. It blows my mind that it's still a political debate.
    Although I'll admit that when a man in particular attempts to block this right of women, be it a politician or otherwise, it pisses me off in a special kind of way.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • ldent42
    ldent42 NYC Posts: 7,859
    PJ_Soul said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I'd consider the attacks on US mosques more a terrorist act than this senseless tragedy.

    I get this twit was motivated with his ideology, but it feels more of a nutjob being a nutjob than it does a calculated, planned and systematic attack.

    People can call it what they want though- it, ultimately, makes no difference. People are dead because some mutant felt the need to express himself through intensely violent methods.

    Sure... although it brings up more issues than that. An attack on PP/the right to choose deserves special attention. It highlights the political issue of abortion, which is an issue still raging in the US. Being in Canada that fact kind of blows my mind.
    I'd add on to that, more than just the political issue of abortion it highlights the issue of gender inequality as well. At least we can agree that abortion is a real thing that exists. Many people don't think gender inequality does.
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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 51,019
    ldent42 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I'd consider the attacks on US mosques more a terrorist act than this senseless tragedy.

    I get this twit was motivated with his ideology, but it feels more of a nutjob being a nutjob than it does a calculated, planned and systematic attack.

    People can call it what they want though- it, ultimately, makes no difference. People are dead because some mutant felt the need to express himself through intensely violent methods.

    Sure... although it brings up more issues than that. An attack on PP/the right to choose deserves special attention. It highlights the political issue of abortion, which is an issue still raging in the US. Being in Canada that fact kind of blows my mind.
    I'd add on to that, more than just the political issue of abortion it highlights the issue of gender inequality as well. At least we can agree that abortion is a real thing that exists. Many people don't think gender inequality does.
    I feel like gender inequality (and all that entails internationally) is the biggest story and the biggest human rights issue on the face of the planet myself, and almost everyone is just pretending it doesn't exist. It's just brutal.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • ldent42
    ldent42 NYC Posts: 7,859
    edited December 2015
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I'd consider the attacks on US mosques more a terrorist act than this senseless tragedy.

    I get this twit was motivated with his ideology, but it feels more of a nutjob being a nutjob than it does a calculated, planned and systematic attack.

    People can call it what they want though- it, ultimately, makes no difference. People are dead because some mutant felt the need to express himself through intensely violent methods.

    Thirty, if I may - what makes this "feel more of a nut job being a nutjob" than an act of terror? Is it the limited number of potential victims? Or because he was a single actor? Or because he was too stupid to figure out that bombs require a detonator? Lol.

    Obviously, I think the issue relies heavily on our definition of "terrorism". I think in our post 9/11 world we associate terrorism with Islamic extremists. I don't know what happened much before that. Was the Ryder truck called an act of terrorism in the 90s? Wasn't McVey convicted as a terrorist? That guy on the LIRR?

    Personally I think Colorado springs was a terrorist act. What concerns me greatly is I suspect many people look at this and go "oh it's just one guy with a gun, that's not a terrorist."
    Post edited by ldent42 on
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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Posts: 40,247
    not all mass shootings are terrorism. but when you mix in ideology, you have yourself a terrorist act. it really is that black and white.
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    ldent42 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I'd consider the attacks on US mosques more a terrorist act than this senseless tragedy.

    I get this twit was motivated with his ideology, but it feels more of a nutjob being a nutjob than it does a calculated, planned and systematic attack.

    People can call it what they want though- it, ultimately, makes no difference. People are dead because some mutant felt the need to express himself through intensely violent methods.

    Thirty, if I may - what makes this "feel more of a nut job being a nutjob" than an act of terror? Is it the limited number of potential victims? Or because he was a single actor? Or because he was too stupid to figure out that bombs require a detonator? Lol.

    Obviously, I think the issue relies heavily on our definition of "terrorism". I think in our post 9/11 world we associate terrorism with Islamic extremists. I don't know what happened much before that. Was the Ryder truck called an act of terrorism in the 90s? Wasn't McVey convicted as a terrorist? That guy on the LIRR?

    Personally I think Colorado springs was a terrorist act. What concerns me greatly is I suspect many people look at this and go "oh it's just one guy with a gun, that's not a terrorist."
    Basically... some religious shitkicker living in a paper shack in a bush finally snaps and goes and kills some people at an abortion clinic because he thinks it's wrong.

    My idea of terrorism is a little more sophistication (support, collaboration, etc.).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    bootlegger10 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I'd consider the attacks on US mosques more a terrorist act than this senseless tragedy.

    I get this twit was motivated with his ideology, but it feels more of a nutjob being a nutjob than it does a calculated, planned and systematic attack.

    People can call it what they want though- it, ultimately, makes no difference. People are dead because some mutant felt the need to express himself through intensely violent methods.

    Sure... although it brings up more issues than that. An attack on PP/the right to choose deserves special attention. It highlights the political issue of abortion, which is an issue still raging in the US. Being in Canada that fact kind of blows my mind.
    I can never understand why people can't comprehend that some think killing a fetus is "wrong". If abortion is legal I'm not going to prevent someone from doing it, but I don't think it is strange that someone can think it is murder. To me, two reasonable people can have differing views on abortion.
    Because scraping out 'goo' is hardly murder.

    By extension... you could cry murder every time some teenager sends his sperm cells into tissue paper.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Who Princess
    Who Princess out here in the fields Posts: 7,305
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    Basically... some religious shitkicker living in a paper shack in a bush finally snaps and goes and kills some people at an abortion clinic because he thinks it's wrong.

    My idea of terrorism is a little more sophistication (support, collaboration, etc.).

    There are plenty of the so-called Lone Wolf terrorists who act alone but out of an ideology. Ted Kaczynski for one. Eric Rudolph is a another example. He claimed his Catholicism motivated him. I think he's an excellent example of a non-Muslim who used a warped view of his religion to justify his actions.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Who Princess said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    Basically... some religious shitkicker living in a paper shack in a bush finally snaps and goes and kills some people at an abortion clinic because he thinks it's wrong.

    My idea of terrorism is a little more sophistication (support, collaboration, etc.).

    There are plenty of the so-called Lone Wolf terrorists who act alone but out of an ideology. Ted Kaczynski for one. Eric Rudolph is a another example. He claimed his Catholicism motivated him. I think he's an excellent example of a non-Muslim who used a warped view of his religion to justify his actions.
    I know.

    Like I say... this just doesn't fit my schema for 'terrorism'. I'm not going to die on the sword for it though... if people want to call it terrorism... they can without any more protest than what I might have put forth to this moment.

    It makes no difference: some f**kign idiot went and killed some people. I'm getting tired of that script regardless of whatever label we want to place on it to try and make sense of it.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,581
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    ldent42 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I'd consider the attacks on US mosques more a terrorist act than this senseless tragedy.

    I get this twit was motivated with his ideology, but it feels more of a nutjob being a nutjob than it does a calculated, planned and systematic attack.

    People can call it what they want though- it, ultimately, makes no difference. People are dead because some mutant felt the need to express himself through intensely violent methods.

    Thirty, if I may - what makes this "feel more of a nut job being a nutjob" than an act of terror? Is it the limited number of potential victims? Or because he was a single actor? Or because he was too stupid to figure out that bombs require a detonator? Lol.

    Obviously, I think the issue relies heavily on our definition of "terrorism". I think in our post 9/11 world we associate terrorism with Islamic extremists. I don't know what happened much before that. Was the Ryder truck called an act of terrorism in the 90s? Wasn't McVey convicted as a terrorist? That guy on the LIRR?

    Personally I think Colorado springs was a terrorist act. What concerns me greatly is I suspect many people look at this and go "oh it's just one guy with a gun, that's not a terrorist."
    Basically... some religious shitkicker living in a paper shack in a bush finally snaps and goes and kills some people at an abortion clinic because he thinks it's wrong.

    My idea of terrorism is a little more sophistication (support, collaboration, etc.).
    Your definition runs different to the pure definition posted earlier.
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  • ldent42
    ldent42 NYC Posts: 7,859
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    not all mass shootings are terrorism. but when you mix in ideology, you have yourself a terrorist act. it really is that black and white.

    my problem with this is I believe words matter. I think our use of language is more important than we realize at the time. And I don't like the idea that a terrorist act is dependent on ideology to make it so. I think as long as there's intention to injure and/or kill multiple people, with any level/degree of planning, and the hope that the act will frighten people and disrupt their everyday lives, it should qualify as terrorism.
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  • dudeman
    dudeman Posts: 3,227
    Does it matter what we call it? This seems like one of those things that will only serve to highlight the disparities that we share too many of already.

    Call it terrorism or something else. Who gives a shit?
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Posts: 40,247
    dudeman said:

    Does it matter what we call it? This seems like one of those things that will only serve to highlight the disparities that we share too many of already.

    Call it terrorism or something else. Who gives a shit?

    because if the perp is caught alive, his crimes are treated differently depending on how it's classified.

    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • dudeman
    dudeman Posts: 3,227
    Is that necessary?
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Posts: 40,247
    dudeman said:

    Is that necessary?

    some would argue so.

    also, I just think it's an interesting discussion that Americans seem to be fearful of calling domestics terrorists; my guess is because they can't wrap their head around a "christian" being classified the same as a brown guy from the mid east with a bomb strapped to his body.

    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    edited December 2015
    mickeyrat said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    ldent42 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I'd consider the attacks on US mosques more a terrorist act than this senseless tragedy.

    I get this twit was motivated with his ideology, but it feels more of a nutjob being a nutjob than it does a calculated, planned and systematic attack.

    People can call it what they want though- it, ultimately, makes no difference. People are dead because some mutant felt the need to express himself through intensely violent methods.

    Thirty, if I may - what makes this "feel more of a nut job being a nutjob" than an act of terror? Is it the limited number of potential victims? Or because he was a single actor? Or because he was too stupid to figure out that bombs require a detonator? Lol.

    Obviously, I think the issue relies heavily on our definition of "terrorism". I think in our post 9/11 world we associate terrorism with Islamic extremists. I don't know what happened much before that. Was the Ryder truck called an act of terrorism in the 90s? Wasn't McVey convicted as a terrorist? That guy on the LIRR?

    Personally I think Colorado springs was a terrorist act. What concerns me greatly is I suspect many people look at this and go "oh it's just one guy with a gun, that's not a terrorist."
    Basically... some religious shitkicker living in a paper shack in a bush finally snaps and goes and kills some people at an abortion clinic because he thinks it's wrong.

    My idea of terrorism is a little more sophistication (support, collaboration, etc.).
    Your definition runs different to the pure definition posted earlier.
    Yes it does.

    Edit: to some degree.
    Post edited by Thirty Bills Unpaid on
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,306
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    dudeman said:

    Is that necessary?

    some would argue so.

    also, I just think it's an interesting discussion that Americans seem to be fearful of calling domestics terrorists; my guess is because they can't wrap their head around a "christian" being classified the same as a brown guy from the mid east with a bomb strapped to his body.

    I don't think race/religion has anything to do with it at all. Like others have said above, I think it comes down to the scale of the operation and the frequency. I can't remember the last abortion clinic murder (was it somewhere in Kansas?), but could probably count off ten different attacks by ISIS off the top of my head in 2015. You can call it terrorism or whatever, but what I think people in this thread are looking for is the outrage for the PP attack rather than calling it "terrorism". And I think the outrage isn't as public or prevalent in part that the frequency isn't there. They see this more as an isolated attack.

    And if you want to say religion is a factor, then again I point to the frequency and that is much rarer in today's world to see a person kill because of Christianity versus Islam. I don't really ever hear of the mass shooting killers in the US screaming "This is for Jesus" before they attack. They are just mentally unstable or insanely mad at their spouse or ex-spouse. I also don't think religion has anything to do with the US activity in the Middle East. It is about oil and economic stability and safety.

  • ldent42
    ldent42 NYC Posts: 7,859
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    dudeman said:

    Is that necessary?

    some would argue so.

    also, I just think it's an interesting discussion that Americans seem to be fearful of calling domestics terrorists; my guess is because they can't wrap their head around a "christian" being classified the same as a brown guy from the mid east with a bomb strapped to his body.

    I'm one of them. I'm not a lawyer and I don't know exactly what the difference in charges is. I believe convicted terrorists aren't eligible for parole and don't get put in regular gen pop prison. They also get the "enhanced interrogation" crap to get intel on other potential attacks. For that very reason, I think it's important that the distinction in terms is made. This looney toon might have looney tune friends supporting him or supplying him with ammo or intel and frankly, if there's an underground network of lunatic "christians" trying to blow up reproductive health facilities in the United States, it's something I'd like our authorities to be aware of.
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  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,306
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    bootlegger10 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I'd consider the attacks on US mosques more a terrorist act than this senseless tragedy.

    I get this twit was motivated with his ideology, but it feels more of a nutjob being a nutjob than it does a calculated, planned and systematic attack.

    People can call it what they want though- it, ultimately, makes no difference. People are dead because some mutant felt the need to express himself through intensely violent methods.

    Sure... although it brings up more issues than that. An attack on PP/the right to choose deserves special attention. It highlights the political issue of abortion, which is an issue still raging in the US. Being in Canada that fact kind of blows my mind.
    I can never understand why people can't comprehend that some think killing a fetus is "wrong". If abortion is legal I'm not going to prevent someone from doing it, but I don't think it is strange that someone can think it is murder. To me, two reasonable people can have differing views on abortion.
    Because scraping out 'goo' is hardly murder.

    By extension... you could cry murder every time some teenager sends his sperm cells into tissue paper.
    Well, a sperm cell can't grow into an adult on its own. That "goo" you talk about would grow up to be a functioning human outside the womb eventually. It is the age old argument of when the life cycle of a human begins. Nothing new.
  • Who Princess
    Who Princess out here in the fields Posts: 7,305
    bootlegger10 said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    dudeman said:

    Is that necessary?

    some would argue so.

    also, I just think it's an interesting discussion that Americans seem to be fearful of calling domestics terrorists; my guess is because they can't wrap their head around a "christian" being classified the same as a brown guy from the mid east with a bomb strapped to his body.

    I don't think race/religion has anything to do with it at all. Like others have said above, I think it comes down to the scale of the operation and the frequency. I can't remember the last abortion clinic murder (was it somewhere in Kansas?), but could probably count off ten different attacks by ISIS off the top of my head in 2015. You can call it terrorism or whatever, but what I think people in this thread are looking for is the outrage for the PP attack rather than calling it "terrorism". And I think the outrage isn't as public or prevalent in part that the frequency isn't there. They see this more as an isolated attack.
    I, for one, recall a number of abortion related murders or attacks. The fact that they were more frequent in the 90s doesn't make them any less scary to me. A shooter on the east coast who killed the front desk staff at 2 different Planned Parenthood clinics. The fore-mentioned Eric Rudolph, who bombed clinics in the name of his religion. The shooters who killed abortion doctors, the last one being Dr. George Tiller in Kansas--at his own church, no less. I think the intention in all of these acts was to terrorize and most if not all of these people claimed religious motivations. It's pretty freaking scary that even a receptionist runs the risk of being killed by someone who thinks he's acting for the good of humanity. The people in ISIS seem to feel pretty justified too.

    Maybe all this is because I'm a woman. But I also consider rape to be a terroristic act. It's certainly used that way during wartime.

    I can recommend an excellent book on these kinds of killers--Terror in the Name of God: Why Religious Militants Kill by Jessica Stern. She interviewed Muslim, Christian, and Jewish militants. Very insightful book.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."

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