Turns Out People Get Angry When You Say White Americans Are Terroriosts Too....

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  • ldent42ldent42 Posts: 7,859

    not all mass shootings are terrorism. but when you mix in ideology, you have yourself a terrorist act. it really is that black and white.

    my problem with this is I believe words matter. I think our use of language is more important than we realize at the time. And I don't like the idea that a terrorist act is dependent on ideology to make it so. I think as long as there's intention to injure and/or kill multiple people, with any level/degree of planning, and the hope that the act will frighten people and disrupt their everyday lives, it should qualify as terrorism.
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  • dudemandudeman Posts: 3,061
    Does it matter what we call it? This seems like one of those things that will only serve to highlight the disparities that we share too many of already.

    Call it terrorism or something else. Who gives a shit?
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • dudeman said:

    Does it matter what we call it? This seems like one of those things that will only serve to highlight the disparities that we share too many of already.

    Call it terrorism or something else. Who gives a shit?

    because if the perp is caught alive, his crimes are treated differently depending on how it's classified.

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  • dudemandudeman Posts: 3,061
    Is that necessary?
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • dudeman said:

    Is that necessary?

    some would argue so.

    also, I just think it's an interesting discussion that Americans seem to be fearful of calling domestics terrorists; my guess is because they can't wrap their head around a "christian" being classified the same as a brown guy from the mid east with a bomb strapped to his body.

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  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    edited December 2015
    mickeyrat said:

    ldent42 said:

    I'd consider the attacks on US mosques more a terrorist act than this senseless tragedy.

    I get this twit was motivated with his ideology, but it feels more of a nutjob being a nutjob than it does a calculated, planned and systematic attack.

    People can call it what they want though- it, ultimately, makes no difference. People are dead because some mutant felt the need to express himself through intensely violent methods.

    Thirty, if I may - what makes this "feel more of a nut job being a nutjob" than an act of terror? Is it the limited number of potential victims? Or because he was a single actor? Or because he was too stupid to figure out that bombs require a detonator? Lol.

    Obviously, I think the issue relies heavily on our definition of "terrorism". I think in our post 9/11 world we associate terrorism with Islamic extremists. I don't know what happened much before that. Was the Ryder truck called an act of terrorism in the 90s? Wasn't McVey convicted as a terrorist? That guy on the LIRR?

    Personally I think Colorado springs was a terrorist act. What concerns me greatly is I suspect many people look at this and go "oh it's just one guy with a gun, that's not a terrorist."
    Basically... some religious shitkicker living in a paper shack in a bush finally snaps and goes and kills some people at an abortion clinic because he thinks it's wrong.

    My idea of terrorism is a little more sophistication (support, collaboration, etc.).
    Your definition runs different to the pure definition posted earlier.
    Yes it does.

    Edit: to some degree.
    Post edited by Thirty Bills Unpaid on
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  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,944

    dudeman said:

    Is that necessary?

    some would argue so.

    also, I just think it's an interesting discussion that Americans seem to be fearful of calling domestics terrorists; my guess is because they can't wrap their head around a "christian" being classified the same as a brown guy from the mid east with a bomb strapped to his body.

    I don't think race/religion has anything to do with it at all. Like others have said above, I think it comes down to the scale of the operation and the frequency. I can't remember the last abortion clinic murder (was it somewhere in Kansas?), but could probably count off ten different attacks by ISIS off the top of my head in 2015. You can call it terrorism or whatever, but what I think people in this thread are looking for is the outrage for the PP attack rather than calling it "terrorism". And I think the outrage isn't as public or prevalent in part that the frequency isn't there. They see this more as an isolated attack.

    And if you want to say religion is a factor, then again I point to the frequency and that is much rarer in today's world to see a person kill because of Christianity versus Islam. I don't really ever hear of the mass shooting killers in the US screaming "This is for Jesus" before they attack. They are just mentally unstable or insanely mad at their spouse or ex-spouse. I also don't think religion has anything to do with the US activity in the Middle East. It is about oil and economic stability and safety.

  • ldent42ldent42 Posts: 7,859

    dudeman said:

    Is that necessary?

    some would argue so.

    also, I just think it's an interesting discussion that Americans seem to be fearful of calling domestics terrorists; my guess is because they can't wrap their head around a "christian" being classified the same as a brown guy from the mid east with a bomb strapped to his body.

    I'm one of them. I'm not a lawyer and I don't know exactly what the difference in charges is. I believe convicted terrorists aren't eligible for parole and don't get put in regular gen pop prison. They also get the "enhanced interrogation" crap to get intel on other potential attacks. For that very reason, I think it's important that the distinction in terms is made. This looney toon might have looney tune friends supporting him or supplying him with ammo or intel and frankly, if there's an underground network of lunatic "christians" trying to blow up reproductive health facilities in the United States, it's something I'd like our authorities to be aware of.
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  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,944

    PJ_Soul said:

    I'd consider the attacks on US mosques more a terrorist act than this senseless tragedy.

    I get this twit was motivated with his ideology, but it feels more of a nutjob being a nutjob than it does a calculated, planned and systematic attack.

    People can call it what they want though- it, ultimately, makes no difference. People are dead because some mutant felt the need to express himself through intensely violent methods.

    Sure... although it brings up more issues than that. An attack on PP/the right to choose deserves special attention. It highlights the political issue of abortion, which is an issue still raging in the US. Being in Canada that fact kind of blows my mind.
    I can never understand why people can't comprehend that some think killing a fetus is "wrong". If abortion is legal I'm not going to prevent someone from doing it, but I don't think it is strange that someone can think it is murder. To me, two reasonable people can have differing views on abortion.
    Because scraping out 'goo' is hardly murder.

    By extension... you could cry murder every time some teenager sends his sperm cells into tissue paper.
    Well, a sperm cell can't grow into an adult on its own. That "goo" you talk about would grow up to be a functioning human outside the womb eventually. It is the age old argument of when the life cycle of a human begins. Nothing new.
  • dudeman said:

    Is that necessary?

    some would argue so.

    also, I just think it's an interesting discussion that Americans seem to be fearful of calling domestics terrorists; my guess is because they can't wrap their head around a "christian" being classified the same as a brown guy from the mid east with a bomb strapped to his body.

    I don't think race/religion has anything to do with it at all. Like others have said above, I think it comes down to the scale of the operation and the frequency. I can't remember the last abortion clinic murder (was it somewhere in Kansas?), but could probably count off ten different attacks by ISIS off the top of my head in 2015. You can call it terrorism or whatever, but what I think people in this thread are looking for is the outrage for the PP attack rather than calling it "terrorism". And I think the outrage isn't as public or prevalent in part that the frequency isn't there. They see this more as an isolated attack.
    I, for one, recall a number of abortion related murders or attacks. The fact that they were more frequent in the 90s doesn't make them any less scary to me. A shooter on the east coast who killed the front desk staff at 2 different Planned Parenthood clinics. The fore-mentioned Eric Rudolph, who bombed clinics in the name of his religion. The shooters who killed abortion doctors, the last one being Dr. George Tiller in Kansas--at his own church, no less. I think the intention in all of these acts was to terrorize and most if not all of these people claimed religious motivations. It's pretty freaking scary that even a receptionist runs the risk of being killed by someone who thinks he's acting for the good of humanity. The people in ISIS seem to feel pretty justified too.

    Maybe all this is because I'm a woman. But I also consider rape to be a terroristic act. It's certainly used that way during wartime.

    I can recommend an excellent book on these kinds of killers--Terror in the Name of God: Why Religious Militants Kill by Jessica Stern. She interviewed Muslim, Christian, and Jewish militants. Very insightful book.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • ldent42ldent42 Posts: 7,859

    dudeman said:

    Is that necessary?

    some would argue so.

    also, I just think it's an interesting discussion that Americans seem to be fearful of calling domestics terrorists; my guess is because they can't wrap their head around a "christian" being classified the same as a brown guy from the mid east with a bomb strapped to his body.

    I don't think race/religion has anything to do with it at all. Like others have said above, I think it comes down to the scale of the operation and the frequency. I can't remember the last abortion clinic murder (was it somewhere in Kansas?), but could probably count off ten different attacks by ISIS off the top of my head in 2015. You can call it terrorism or whatever, but what I think people in this thread are looking for is the outrage for the PP attack rather than calling it "terrorism". And I think the outrage isn't as public or prevalent in part that the frequency isn't there. They see this more as an isolated attack.
    I, for one, recall a number of abortion related murders or attacks. The fact that they were more frequent in the 90s doesn't make them any less scary to me. A shooter on the east coast who killed the front desk staff at 2 different Planned Parenthood clinics. The fore-mentioned Eric Rudolph, who bombed clinics in the name of his religion. The shooters who killed abortion doctors, the last one being Dr. George Tiller in Kansas--at his own church, no less. I think the intention in all of these acts was to terrorize and most if not all of these people claimed religious motivations. It's pretty freaking scary that even a receptionist runs the risk of being killed by someone who thinks he's acting for the good of humanity. The people in ISIS seem to feel pretty justified too.

    Maybe all this is because I'm a woman. But I also consider rape to be a terroristic act. It's certainly used that way during wartime.

    I can recommend an excellent book on these kinds of killers--Terror in the Name of God: Why Religious Militants Kill by Jessica Stern. She interviewed Muslim, Christian, and Jewish militants. Very insightful book.
    And that was the shooting that killed him, not the first time he was actually shot. The suspects were also suspected in several less high profile cases.
    it's a regular war tactic in several parts of Africa like the DRC and the Sudan. I think you feel that way because you're educated in the matter.
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  • dudeman said:

    Is that necessary?

    some would argue so.

    also, I just think it's an interesting discussion that Americans seem to be fearful of calling domestics terrorists; my guess is because they can't wrap their head around a "christian" being classified the same as a brown guy from the mid east with a bomb strapped to his body.

    I don't think race/religion has anything to do with it at all. Like others have said above, I think it comes down to the scale of the operation and the frequency. I can't remember the last abortion clinic murder (was it somewhere in Kansas?), but could probably count off ten different attacks by ISIS off the top of my head in 2015. You can call it terrorism or whatever, but what I think people in this thread are looking for is the outrage for the PP attack rather than calling it "terrorism". And I think the outrage isn't as public or prevalent in part that the frequency isn't there. They see this more as an isolated attack.

    And if you want to say religion is a factor, then again I point to the frequency and that is much rarer in today's world to see a person kill because of Christianity versus Islam. I don't really ever hear of the mass shooting killers in the US screaming "This is for Jesus" before they attack. They are just mentally unstable or insanely mad at their spouse or ex-spouse. I also don't think religion has anything to do with the US activity in the Middle East. It is about oil and economic stability and safety.

    frequency is moot. it doesn't just become terrorism because it happens more often than before. either it's motivated by a factor bigger than the victims themselves or it isn't. to me that is pretty much all you need for categorizing it as such.

    and no, they aren't killing in Jesus' name literally, but ideologically, yes, some do. just remember as well, the american media might not necessarily report on such things if they did happen.

    not all mass shootings/killings happen as a result of someone being stressed out over family/job/etc. but if they are, no, then it's not terrorism. but if it's bigger than that, it is.

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  • You can call it terrorism or whatever, but what I think people in this thread are looking for is the outrage for the PP attack rather than calling it "terrorism".

    well the OP is all about calling it terrorism.

    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,541
    I see it as terrorism , they wanna instill fear ....
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    They should treat it as terrorism. All his known associates should be interrogated and by watched by heavy surveillance. Any church he is associated with should have it's leaders questioned and flagged in our national database.

    We need to learn if this guy a crazy offshoot or if he is the sign of a virus in its infancy stage.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    it's much easier to just focus on muslims ... I wonder what the US economy would be like without war or black friday sales ...
  • polaris_x said:

    it's much easier to just focus on muslims ... I wonder what the US economy would be like without war or black friday sales ...

    I'm not sure about this.

    I think a crafty media spin could get people setting their hair on fire for backwater, one-toothed, paper shack dwelling hillbillies pretty easily.

    Think of stock prices for outdoor clothing and equipment- you can't go gettin' hillbillies with a Volkswagen Jetta and your Dockers.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    polaris_x said:

    it's much easier to just focus on muslims ... I wonder what the US economy would be like without war or black friday sales ...

    Take away the black friday sales and we would be Russia.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559

    I'm not sure about this.

    I think a crafty media spin could get people setting their hair on fire for backwater, one-toothed, paper shack dwelling hillbillies pretty easily.

    Think of stock prices for outdoor clothing and equipment- you can't go gettin' hillbillies with a Volkswagen Jetta and your Dockers.

    i'm pretty sure hipsters are next on the list
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jason P said:

    Take away the black friday sales and we would be Russia.

    if trump wins ... that's sadly spot on ...
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    polaris_x said:

    Jason P said:

    Take away the black friday sales and we would be Russia.

    if trump wins ... that's sadly spot on ...
    He would be assassinated if he was truly a contender. The machine doesn't like outsiders.

    How is Babcock doing for ya? Do you think he regrets leaving Motown to go live in a money bin up north yet?
  • polaris_x said:

    I'm not sure about this.

    I think a crafty media spin could get people setting their hair on fire for backwater, one-toothed, paper shack dwelling hillbillies pretty easily.

    Think of stock prices for outdoor clothing and equipment- you can't go gettin' hillbillies with a Volkswagen Jetta and your Dockers.

    i'm pretty sure hipsters are next on the list
    Oh geezuz.

    Somebody warn RG lol!
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jason P said:

    He would be assassinated if he was truly a contender. The machine doesn't like outsiders.

    How is Babcock doing for ya? Do you think he regrets leaving Motown to go live in a money bin up north yet?

    trump is part of the machine ...

    babcock is killing us here ... winning way too many games ... bullshit rebuild ...haha ... i think he loves it up here ... i rode by him the other day and it looked like life was good ...
  • InHiding80InHiding80 Posts: 7,623
    He who fights monsters becomes monsters. That sums up the tea party era of the GOP the past handful of years.
  • ldent42ldent42 Posts: 7,859
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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    ^^ That is atrocious. God the New York Post is just the worst.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • ldent42ldent42 Posts: 7,859
    PJ_Soul said:

    ^^ That is atrocious. God the New York Post is just the worst.

    they continue to amaze me. I actually bought one with the cover that says "welcome to NY, now die!" cuz it was too goddamn hilariously awful. (they were going to try some terrorists here)
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  • the one with the guy about to be smushed by the train took the cake for me. how that rag is still around just shows the high propensity of disgusting people that walk among us.
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • ldent42ldent42 Posts: 7,859

    the one with the guy about to be smushed by the train took the cake for me. how that rag is still around just shows the high propensity of disgusting people that walk among us.

    oh god i think I had repressed that memory.
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  • the one with the guy about to be smushed by the train took the cake for me. how that rag is still around just shows the high propensity of disgusting people that walk among us.

    It's made for an 8th grade reading level.
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