What the hell happen in Virginia??

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

tempo_n_groove said:

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Cliffy6745 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Cliffy6745 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

Godfather. said:

benjs said:

Godfather. said:

callen said:

GF, If all guns in US disappeared tomorrow do you think murders would go down?

yes and no butts about it, that's true with anything that causes death tho, eleminate cars and truck and watch traffic deaths decline to zero, eleminate booze and watch booze related deaths drop to zero and so on.

Godfather.

When innocents die in numbers that label gun assaults an EPIDEMIC, and you have a cure, why are you so damn hasty to label it unconstitutional to consider stricter gun reforms, as opposed to saying your pathetic constitutional rights - long since antiquated - ought to be revised in the interests of your country which you claim to love?

you live in canada ? has anybody ever estamated the amount of illegal guns in your country ? honestly I'm just curious because I'll bet there are a grip of them and murders with or without guns how many a year...1-2-200 ? more ? I know for a fact you have a few outlaw clubs in canada and you can't tell me they are unarmed.

Godfather.

Doesn't our population equal all of theirs together?

So someone called it above that someone wouldn't know how to read the chart. hahah.

Per 100,000....

No I believe I asked the question " Doesn't our population equal all of theirs"…

I guess someone doesn't know how to read the question?

Except for the fact you were referring to a chart in which population size is irrelevant

I was setting up for my next question which doesn't matter, you are either for guns or against them, right?

- so you wanted to "set up" for your next question but were too lazy to do the math yourself?

Okay, that got me interested in looking into this. In fact, my rough math is that the total population of the other countries on the map is around 460 million, compared to 320 million for the US.

Does that set up nicely for your next point, or not?

Nothing I say is going to change the minds of anyone but I'll try…

With other countries and their smaller populations they don't incur nearly the "problems" we do.

What is their welfare % to ours? What is the middle-class ratio to population to ours? What is their standard of living for their population compared to ours? Will I look these up? No. I believe that all these things have factors in them. Our population as a whole has a HUGE difference on things.

Basically I believe that you can't compare Germany for example with us, even if you use the 100,000 breakdown.

I just don't think that it's a fair comparison. That was my "set up"...

A pretty good recovery.

Without the numbers for the things you question, its hard to speculate to what you're getting at.

Offering an analogy for what you are trying to say: if you have a small school with 100 students... it will have a much different tone than a larger school of 1000 students.

With the assist, I'm still not feeling you. The statistics that damn the pro gun side of the debate cannot be dismissed with a vague notion of disproportionate populations skewing numbers.

I understand your reluctance but it HAS to make a difference on things. I find it hard to believe that it doesn't.

Yes you can draw social factors. Look up Belize and their 100,000 per firearm death rate. It's 29,000 population has a 21% firearm death rate. Something should be said about that, no?
What the hell is going in Belize?!?
So I am actually looking up things now because I was curious if what I "thought" has merit and I do believe it does.

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Yes you can draw social factors. Look up Belize and their 100,000 per firearm death rate. It's 29,000 population has a 21% firearm death rate. Something should be said about that, no?
What the hell is going in Belize?!?
So I am actually looking up things now because I was curious if what I "thought" has merit and I do believe it does.

But what is it that you think, specifically? "Social factors" is pretty broad. All countries have social factors. And Belize is not that big, so your argument about size goes out the window.

I'm not disagreeing that this is a multifaceted problem but you need to be specific as to what factors you think are relevant.

Agreed^.

As for size my argument goes back to social factors in those countries. That is one thing I believe that has a huge impact.

In perspective I'm wondering where the most gun violence happens in the US? Is it in Beverly hills and the Hamptons or Crenshaw and the Bronx?

This is where I can draw a line of "Social factors".

Last-12-Exit said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Yes you can draw social factors. Look up Belize and their 100,000 per firearm death rate. It's 29,000 population has a 21% firearm death rate. Something should be said about that, no?
What the hell is going in Belize?!?
So I am actually looking up things now because I was curious if what I "thought" has merit and I do believe it does.

I don't live in belize. So yes, it's irrelevant.

HAHA Touche'!!!

blueandwhite said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Yes you can draw social factors. Look up Belize and their 100,000 per firearm death rate. It's 29,000 population has a 21% firearm death rate. Something should be said about that, no?
What the hell is going in Belize?!?
So I am actually looking up things now because I was curious if what I "thought" has merit and I do believe it does.

If you're comparing your country to to a developing island nation that's fine. It doesn't change the fact that the US is far more violent when it comes to firearms than any other developed nation in the world. It's like comparing driving fatalities in the 1st world where road rules are structured to the chaos of driving in India or China where the rules are nothing more than guidelines. It hardly comes as a surprise that China and India have far more fatalities per 100,000 miles travelled than any developed nation. Remember, if you set the bar low enough you'll always come out on top.

Fair enough but I did ask the questions about social factors earlier.

There is no way that it can't be a measuring stick. Just think about it.

Please just try and venture outside the box and look at it in a different light. I have traveled the world and have seen many a thing and this is from my experiences.

I'm going to bow out for the night. I'll enjoy the comments though...

tempo_n_groove said:

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Cliffy6745 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Cliffy6745 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

Godfather. said:

benjs said:

Godfather. said:

callen said:

GF, If all guns in US disappeared tomorrow do you think murders would go down?

yes and no butts about it, that's true with anything that causes death tho, eleminate cars and truck and watch traffic deaths decline to zero, eleminate booze and watch booze related deaths drop to zero and so on.

Godfather.

When innocents die in numbers that label gun assaults an EPIDEMIC, and you have a cure, why are you so damn hasty to label it unconstitutional to consider stricter gun reforms, as opposed to saying your pathetic constitutional rights - long since antiquated - ought to be revised in the interests of your country which you claim to love?

you live in canada ? has anybody ever estamated the amount of illegal guns in your country ? honestly I'm just curious because I'll bet there are a grip of them and murders with or without guns how many a year...1-2-200 ? more ? I know for a fact you have a few outlaw clubs in canada and you can't tell me they are unarmed.

Godfather.

Doesn't our population equal all of theirs together?

So someone called it above that someone wouldn't know how to read the chart. hahah.

Per 100,000....

No I believe I asked the question " Doesn't our population equal all of theirs"…

I guess someone doesn't know how to read the question?

Except for the fact you were referring to a chart in which population size is irrelevant

I was setting up for my next question which doesn't matter, you are either for guns or against them, right?

- so you wanted to "set up" for your next question but were too lazy to do the math yourself?

Okay, that got me interested in looking into this. In fact, my rough math is that the total population of the other countries on the map is around 460 million, compared to 320 million for the US.

Does that set up nicely for your next point, or not?

Nothing I say is going to change the minds of anyone but I'll try…

With other countries and their smaller populations they don't incur nearly the "problems" we do.

What is their welfare % to ours? What is the middle-class ratio to population to ours? What is their standard of living for their population compared to ours? Will I look these up? No. I believe that all these things have factors in them. Our population as a whole has a HUGE difference on things.

Basically I believe that you can't compare Germany for example with us, even if you use the 100,000 breakdown.

I just don't think that it's a fair comparison. That was my "set up"...

No countries with more comparable populations have this problem either though Tempo. It is an American problem, not a countries with high populations problem. Besides, it would probably be population density that would matter if what you were thinking is true, not overall population. I.e. compare a city in the US with 1 million people and a city anywhere with 1 million people. The US still has the gun problem when you look at it that way. And the standard of living of those countries is about the same as the US, so I think those are comparable too.
I see someone asked about Canada up there, which is probably the most comparable country in terms of the other factors you brought up combined woth the most similar culture outside of the massive difference when it comes to being gun crazy.... FWIW, almost everyone in Canada lives near the US border, so while it's a big country with few people, the population density in cities is still pretty high, and if you compare our biggest cities or most heavily populated regions with comparably sized cities or regions in the US, the US still has the gun problem. It is CLEAR that Americans have a special obsession with guns that people in other developed countries don't have (or in less highly developed countries for thst matter. The countries with over a billion don't even have this problem). And i don't think it serves anyone well to try and pretend that maybe it's not a problem particular to the American people by using excuses like population or the size if the middle class. I believe that is what you call denial.

callen said:

Leezestarr313 said:

This should end the debate

Afraid not, see my post above this one.