de-criminalization of the sex trade ?

PJ_Soul said:

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Last-12-Exit said:

I know there are several issues that tie into prostitution, but at its core, it's still a woman's choice.

Well... not if it's a woman whose passport is being withheld by her pimp, or one who being controlled by means of her drug addictions, etc, etc etc. I would say that there are a lot of circumstances that actually make it not so much their choice, and some of those circumstances absolutely would not go away with legalization or decriminalization.

As I said in the other thread - regulated legalization provides an easier means of identifying these at-risk women. If her passport is being held, she likely wouldn't be able to get a license. addiction: again, addiction is the problem, not the job. And like any other job, there would be at least SOME measures/incentives/consequences in place to attempt to keep employees from becoming addicts. Sex worker addicts would also then have access to healthcare benefits and workers rights not currently afforded them.
The scenarios you speak of are more serious for street level, or illegal brothel sex workers...and street-level sex work could and would be more strictly policed if there was a system in place in which that work would hurt the government's bottom line...the additional funding for that would come from the tax dollars made from legalizing.
Every time this discussion comes up in the media, the working girls they can get to speak out are emphatic that they want legalization (but it's usually countered by a former worker's horror stories...which may have been avoided via legalization).
You asked in the other thread if I was speaking locally, because you were speaking globally. But in both instances, we are talking changes to local laws. Not much we can do in other countries from a legal or official standpoint.

There are laws in place to address human trafficking. Maybe they need to be revamped but it's addressed (not well enough), whether it's legalized or not. easier to find women under duress when there is a licensing procedure and action taken against unlicensed sex workers, their employers, and customers.
The police not enforcing crime is, again, a separate issue not directly tied to prostitution. Is it related in the ways you say it is? Yes. But it's not dependant on the state of prostitution law - it can improve or get worse under either scenario.
A pimp in a legalized setting would be an abusive boss. Regulations would make it easier for sex workers to report those conditions, and give the system more ability to make the pimp/business owner accountable. it would give them access to worker's rights they don't currently have. Would also open the door to education and programs that don't exist now.

callen said:

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PJ_Soul said:

Last-12-Exit said:

I know there are several issues that tie into prostitution, but at its core, it's still a woman's choice.

Well... not if it's a woman whose passport is being withheld by her pimp, or one who being controlled by means of her drug addictions, etc, etc etc. I would say that there are a lot of circumstances that actually make it not so much their choice, and some of those circumstances absolutely would not go away with legalization or decriminalization.

Yeah have reservations as well. Mostly having young Inexperienced women that may turn to trade for quick money then regret it.

Do think if legalized safer for those that do it.

Positives and negatives on everything.

In end I'll side with freedom for two consenting g adults to do as they please.

Yes, as do I, and likely as does PJ_Soul. The issue is the quality of the consent and whether it is genuinely free for many of those in that business.

Drowned Out said:

There are laws in place to address human trafficking. Maybe they need to be revamped but it's addressed (not well enough), whether it's legalized or not. easier to find women under duress when there is a licensing procedure and action taken against unlicensed sex workers, their employers, and customers.
The police not enforcing crime is, again, a separate issue not directly tied to prostitution. Is it related in the ways you say it is? Yes. But it's not dependant on the state of prostitution law - it can improve or get worse under either scenario.
A pimp in a legalized setting would be an abusive boss. Regulations would make it easier for sex workers to report those conditions, and give the system more ability to make the pimp/business owner accountable. it would give them access to worker's rights they don't currently have. Would also open the door to education and programs that don't exist now.

I do get PJ's and often's points, but great post, Drowned.

And thanks again hedo

Last-12-Exit said:

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rgambs said:

Drowned Out said:

I think the 'young girls entering the biz and regretting it' is similar to the drug war supporting argument that people will run out and start using drugs if it's legal. I don't have any data to support the position (nor time to look for it atm), but I don't see many (if any) more women pursuing this career path due to legalization. If a small number do, I still think the positives would outweigh that negative.

Agree with this, I think with regulation women and men would have a much easier time with keeping safe.
As to the regret issue, who doesn't have a sexual regret nowadays??? I don't (I'm a puritan Amish man who married his first girlfriend) but pretty much everyone I know under 50 years old would easily be able to name a sexual encounter they regret.
Don't like it?
Don't do it again.
At least you made some money to go with your regret!

I can't tell if you were being sarcastic or if you are serious about being an Amish puritan. It reads as serious.

Hahaha not puritan, not Amish, but I did marry my first girlfriend.

callen said:

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Drowned Out said:

rgambs said:

Drowned Out said:

I think the 'young girls entering the biz and regretting it' is similar to the drug war supporting argument that people will run out and start using drugs if it's legal. I don't have any data to support the position (nor time to look for it atm), but I don't see many (if any) more women pursuing this career path due to legalization. If a small number do, I still think the positives would outweigh that negative.

Agree with this, I think with regulation women and men would have a much easier time with keeping safe.
As to the regret issue, who doesn't have a sexual regret nowadays??? I don't (I'm a puritan Amish man who married his first girlfriend) but pretty much everyone I know under 50 years old would easily be able to name a sexual encounter they regret.
Don't like it?
Don't do it again.
At least you made some money to go with your regret!

Not to mention, lessened stigma against sex work (a side effect of legalization) would likely lessen the level of regret.
That stigma is what takes the regret from 'omg that was a bad decision' to 'omg I'm a whore'.

So one could argue Lessing stigma and removing legal ramifications would increase prostitution and more would do this versus starting in low level position. Even with proper protections STD S are increased risk. I get PJ souls concerns. Think I do anyway.

I was going to address your point pre-emptively but was watching my son at Muay Thai and trying not to get busted being an absentee parent haha.
It's a concern, ya..I'm not completely dismissing the points you guys raise, but I think they come from an idealist standpoint...and those ideals are rooted in morality not everyone shares....also rooted in the stigma we're discussing.
I don't think there is evidence to support that stance either. I could be wrong tho. If the drug war is an indicator (who knows if it is), less stigma doesn't mean an increase in the activity. That thought also neglects the factors of education, screening for coercion/duress and any other incentives meant to determine if a woman is making an informed, consensual decision. That's the point - these measures would hopefully decrease the number of people - at risk people in particular - continuing down that path.
Increased risk of std's? That assumes a higher number of partners...which is likely, but not a given. There are a lot of people fucking a lot of people out there. Google 'lawyer'. (Rimshot!)
Legit sex workers make condoms a 100% must. (A lot of drunk one night stand clubbers don't; now do we protect them from their lifestyle choices?).
Also...again, the risk of std is present in sex work regardless of legal status. People are more likely to use those protections in a regulated setting (more likely, required) and more likely (required) to be tested for std's.
prohibition doesn't stop people from becoming sex workers, so how is the legal status increasing the risk of std's on an individual basis? This falls under 'would more people partake' again - same argument. otherwise, it's a bit of a straw man.