There are laws in place to address human trafficking. Maybe they need to be revamped but it's addressed (not well enough), whether it's legalized or not. easier to find women under duress when there is a licensing procedure and action taken against unlicensed sex workers, their employers, and customers. The police not enforcing crime is, again, a separate issue not directly tied to prostitution. Is it related in the ways you say it is? Yes. But it's not dependant on the state of prostitution law - it can improve or get worse under either scenario. A pimp in a legalized setting would be an abusive boss. Regulations would make it easier for sex workers to report those conditions, and give the system more ability to make the pimp/business owner accountable. it would give them access to worker's rights they don't currently have. Would also open the door to education and programs that don't exist now.
I do get PJ's and often's points, but great post, Drowned.
I think the 'young girls entering the biz and regretting it' is similar to the drug war supporting argument that people will run out and start using drugs if it's legal. I don't have any data to support the position (nor time to look for it atm), but I don't see many (if any) more women pursuing this career path due to legalization. If a small number do, I still think the positives would outweigh that negative.
I think the 'young girls entering the biz and regretting it' is similar to the drug war supporting argument that people will run out and start using drugs if it's legal. I don't have any data to support the position (nor time to look for it atm), but I don't see many (if any) more women pursuing this career path due to legalization. If a small number do, I still think the positives would outweigh that negative.
Agree with this, I think with regulation women and men would have a much easier time with keeping safe. As to the regret issue, who doesn't have a sexual regret nowadays??? I don't (I'm a puritan Amish man who married his first girlfriend) but pretty much everyone I know under 50 years old would easily be able to name a sexual encounter they regret. Don't like it? Don't do it again. At least you made some money to go with your regret!
I think the 'young girls entering the biz and regretting it' is similar to the drug war supporting argument that people will run out and start using drugs if it's legal. I don't have any data to support the position (nor time to look for it atm), but I don't see many (if any) more women pursuing this career path due to legalization. If a small number do, I still think the positives would outweigh that negative.
Agree with this, I think with regulation women and men would have a much easier time with keeping safe. As to the regret issue, who doesn't have a sexual regret nowadays??? I don't (I'm a puritan Amish man who married his first girlfriend) but pretty much everyone I know under 50 years old would easily be able to name a sexual encounter they regret. Don't like it? Don't do it again. At least you made some money to go with your regret!
I can't tell if you were being sarcastic or if you are serious about being an Amish puritan. It reads as serious.
I think the 'young girls entering the biz and regretting it' is similar to the drug war supporting argument that people will run out and start using drugs if it's legal. I don't have any data to support the position (nor time to look for it atm), but I don't see many (if any) more women pursuing this career path due to legalization. If a small number do, I still think the positives would outweigh that negative.
Agree with this, I think with regulation women and men would have a much easier time with keeping safe. As to the regret issue, who doesn't have a sexual regret nowadays??? I don't (I'm a puritan Amish man who married his first girlfriend) but pretty much everyone I know under 50 years old would easily be able to name a sexual encounter they regret. Don't like it? Don't do it again. At least you made some money to go with your regret!
Not to mention, lessened stigma against sex work (a side effect of legalization) would likely lessen the level of regret. That stigma is what takes the regret from 'omg that was a bad decision' to 'omg I'm a whore'.
I think the 'young girls entering the biz and regretting it' is similar to the drug war supporting argument that people will run out and start using drugs if it's legal. I don't have any data to support the position (nor time to look for it atm), but I don't see many (if any) more women pursuing this career path due to legalization. If a small number do, I still think the positives would outweigh that negative.
Agree with this, I think with regulation women and men would have a much easier time with keeping safe. As to the regret issue, who doesn't have a sexual regret nowadays??? I don't (I'm a puritan Amish man who married his first girlfriend) but pretty much everyone I know under 50 years old would easily be able to name a sexual encounter they regret. Don't like it? Don't do it again. At least you made some money to go with your regret!
I can't tell if you were being sarcastic or if you are serious about being an Amish puritan. It reads as serious.
Hahaha not puritan, not Amish, but I did marry my first girlfriend.
I think the 'young girls entering the biz and regretting it' is similar to the drug war supporting argument that people will run out and start using drugs if it's legal. I don't have any data to support the position (nor time to look for it atm), but I don't see many (if any) more women pursuing this career path due to legalization. If a small number do, I still think the positives would outweigh that negative.
Agree with this, I think with regulation women and men would have a much easier time with keeping safe. As to the regret issue, who doesn't have a sexual regret nowadays??? I don't (I'm a puritan Amish man who married his first girlfriend) but pretty much everyone I know under 50 years old would easily be able to name a sexual encounter they regret. Don't like it? Don't do it again. At least you made some money to go with your regret!
Not to mention, lessened stigma against sex work (a side effect of legalization) would likely lessen the level of regret. That stigma is what takes the regret from 'omg that was a bad decision' to 'omg I'm a whore'.
So one could argue Lessing stigma and removing legal ramifications would increase prostitution and more would do this versus starting in low level position. Even with proper protections STD S are increased risk. I get PJ souls concerns. Think I do anyway.
I think the 'young girls entering the biz and regretting it' is similar to the drug war supporting argument that people will run out and start using drugs if it's legal. I don't have any data to support the position (nor time to look for it atm), but I don't see many (if any) more women pursuing this career path due to legalization. If a small number do, I still think the positives would outweigh that negative.
Agree with this, I think with regulation women and men would have a much easier time with keeping safe. As to the regret issue, who doesn't have a sexual regret nowadays??? I don't (I'm a puritan Amish man who married his first girlfriend) but pretty much everyone I know under 50 years old would easily be able to name a sexual encounter they regret. Don't like it? Don't do it again. At least you made some money to go with your regret!
Not to mention, lessened stigma against sex work (a side effect of legalization) would likely lessen the level of regret. That stigma is what takes the regret from 'omg that was a bad decision' to 'omg I'm a whore'.
So one could argue Lessing stigma and removing legal ramifications would increase prostitution and more would do this versus starting in low level position. Even with proper protections STD S are increased risk. I get PJ souls concerns. Think I do anyway.
I was going to address your point pre-emptively but was watching my son at Muay Thai and trying not to get busted being an absentee parent haha. It's a concern, ya..I'm not completely dismissing the points you guys raise, but I think they come from an idealist standpoint...and those ideals are rooted in morality not everyone shares....also rooted in the stigma we're discussing. I don't think there is evidence to support that stance either. I could be wrong tho. If the drug war is an indicator (who knows if it is), less stigma doesn't mean an increase in the activity. That thought also neglects the factors of education, screening for coercion/duress and any other incentives meant to determine if a woman is making an informed, consensual decision. That's the point - these measures would hopefully decrease the number of people - at risk people in particular - continuing down that path. Increased risk of std's? That assumes a higher number of partners...which is likely, but not a given. There are a lot of people fucking a lot of people out there. Google 'lawyer'. (Rimshot!) Legit sex workers make condoms a 100% must. (A lot of drunk one night stand clubbers don't; now do we protect them from their lifestyle choices?). Also...again, the risk of std is present in sex work regardless of legal status. People are more likely to use those protections in a regulated setting (more likely, required) and more likely (required) to be tested for std's. prohibition doesn't stop people from becoming sex workers, so how is the legal status increasing the risk of std's on an individual basis? This falls under 'would more people partake' again - same argument. otherwise, it's a bit of a straw man.
Pro choice doesn't just include abortion. If a woman chooses to bang for money, more power to her. It's her choice.
This issue I do find much more complicated than that (as discussed in the other thread).
what ever a person does is a personal choice, if a woman/man wants to be paid for sex that's thier peronal choice and is none of my business.
Godfather.
Fine. But prostitution doesn't only involve that. There are complicated issues of human trafficking, manipulation, abuse, drug addiction, blackmail, etc etc etc. Not to mention diseases and violence.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Pro choice doesn't just include abortion. If a woman chooses to bang for money, more power to her. It's her choice.
This issue I do find much more complicated than that (as discussed in the other thread).
what ever a person does is a personal choice, if a woman/man wants to be paid for sex that's thier peronal choice and is none of my business.
Godfather.
Fine. But prostitution doesn't only involve that. There are complicated issues of human trafficking, manipulation, abuse, drug addiction, blackmail, etc etc etc. Not to mention diseases and violence.
All of those issues and problems would see improvement under a well regulated system of legality.
Pro choice doesn't just include abortion. If a woman chooses to bang for money, more power to her. It's her choice.
This issue I do find much more complicated than that (as discussed in the other thread).
what ever a person does is a personal choice, if a woman/man wants to be paid for sex that's thier peronal choice and is none of my business.
Godfather.
Fine. But prostitution doesn't only involve that. There are complicated issues of human trafficking, manipulation, abuse, drug addiction, blackmail, etc etc etc. Not to mention diseases and violence.
All of those issues and problems would see improvement under a well regulated system of legality.
I heard many members has left Amnesty because of this and it's understandable I think.
Wasn't sure what you meant here so looked around and found this. The article is worth checking out. It points out some of the problems involved in legalizing prostitution. Not the final argument, but points worth considering.
I heard many members has left Amnesty because of this and it's understandable I think.
Wasn't sure what you meant here so looked around and found this. The article is worth checking out. It points out some of the problems involved in legalizing prostitution. Not the final argument, but points worth considering.
I'd say most of my main points are outlined in that article. Thanks for posting.
You bet. It's one of those subjects that's not as simple as it may seem on the surface. And the victims of the sex trade abuse are many, especially in poor countries.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I heard many members has left Amnesty because of this and it's understandable I think.
Wasn't sure what you meant here so looked around and found this. The article is worth checking out. It points out some of the problems involved in legalizing prostitution. Not the final argument, but points worth considering.
Thanks for posting, Brian. I didn't understand what Annafalk meant, either.
I'm sorry that you two didn't understand what I meant. I should have expressed myself better. Just wanted to say that I heard that Amnesty lost members because of this statement about legalizing prostitution. Thanks for the article Brianlux.
For me it boils down to one thing. A contract between two mentally competent, consenting adults should be honored. Why can I sell my time, my manufacturing ability, my car, any of my skills outside of the bedroom, but not sell my skills inside of it?
A legal, regulated environment is much safer in the long run for everyone involved. Shit, a required rapid HIV test (takes 21 minutes to get a rapid HIV 1/2 test) would probably capture many new positives that may have otherwise gone un-diagnosed. The practice can be safeguarded against disease transmission.
I hate inconsistency within the legal framework of our country, mainly because it stinks of regulating morals, and I hate that even more...
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Comments
As to the regret issue, who doesn't have a sexual regret nowadays??? I don't (I'm a puritan Amish man who married his first girlfriend) but pretty much everyone I know under 50 years old would easily be able to name a sexual encounter they regret.
Don't like it?
Don't do it again.
At least you made some money to go with your regret!
That stigma is what takes the regret from 'omg that was a bad decision' to 'omg I'm a whore'.
It's a concern, ya..I'm not completely dismissing the points you guys raise, but I think they come from an idealist standpoint...and those ideals are rooted in morality not everyone shares....also rooted in the stigma we're discussing.
I don't think there is evidence to support that stance either. I could be wrong tho. If the drug war is an indicator (who knows if it is), less stigma doesn't mean an increase in the activity. That thought also neglects the factors of education, screening for coercion/duress and any other incentives meant to determine if a woman is making an informed, consensual decision. That's the point - these measures would hopefully decrease the number of people - at risk people in particular - continuing down that path.
Increased risk of std's? That assumes a higher number of partners...which is likely, but not a given. There are a lot of people fucking a lot of people out there. Google 'lawyer'. (Rimshot!)
Legit sex workers make condoms a 100% must. (A lot of drunk one night stand clubbers don't; now do we protect them from their lifestyle choices?).
Also...again, the risk of std is present in sex work regardless of legal status. People are more likely to use those protections in a regulated setting (more likely, required) and more likely (required) to be tested for std's.
prohibition doesn't stop people from becoming sex workers, so how is the legal status increasing the risk of std's on an individual basis? This falls under 'would more people partake' again - same argument. otherwise, it's a bit of a straw man.
Godfather.
Godfather
Godfather.
http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/jul/28/amnesty-international-prostitution-sex-work-human-trafficking
Thanks for the article Brianlux.
A legal, regulated environment is much safer in the long run for everyone involved. Shit, a required rapid HIV test (takes 21 minutes to get a rapid HIV 1/2 test) would probably capture many new positives that may have otherwise gone un-diagnosed. The practice can be safeguarded against disease transmission.
I hate inconsistency within the legal framework of our country, mainly because it stinks of regulating morals, and I hate that even more...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan