Latest Keystone XL news.

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  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    1ThoughtKnown wrote: »
    Oil is
    brianlux wrote: »
    1ThoughtKnown wrote: »
    We Canadians are very disappointed with President Obama. But if you believe in buying oil from dictators and monarchies in the Middle East and shipping it to North America in large oil tankers so be it.
    We will refine it ourselves and sell it to you.
    We are your friends and largest trading partner. I am pro-environment, but not anti-oil.
    Pipeline is the safest way to transport crude, compared to the alternatives of rail or sea.

    Surely you know this oil is not intended to be sold in the U.S.?

    Since you are pro-environment (and other than people with suicidal tendencies, who isn't?) I assume you are pro-clean alternative energy as well.

    These are moot points, all commodities are produced and sold on the world market. The United States produces commodities and ships them to China, which are then made into junk you buy at Target and Walmart.
    I just do not understand the logic. We have energy, the US needs energy. We are giving you a commodity which you can produce and create jobs with.
    Alternative energies are not always as effective as you would like to think. For instance an electric car being run from energy from a coal fired power plant?
    I believe in making more energy efficient vehicles, but life without oil is never going to happen.
    But as I said previously, we can refine the oil here and sell it on the world market, and I would actually prefer that. Only we have communist politicians in British Columbia who for some reason want to block that as well.

    I think the reason this whole keystone decision has taken so long is because govnt debate like people on the moving train.

    All gears, no idears

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    Seriously you guys? Ok, whatever....
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    edited January 2015
    The Keystone XL bill: The "Lobbyist Support Act".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k_4vWVzNWM#t=30

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    !
    backseatLover12 wrote: »
    The Keystone XL bill: The "Lobbyist Support Act".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k_4vWVzNWM#t=30
    =D>

    "It's worth a whole lot to the Canadian oil industry."
    "A lobbyist support act."
    No surprises there.

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • 1ThoughtKnown
    1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155
    Mr. Lux, if you are willing to open a debate on the internet regarding an issue, you had better be mature enough to expect someone to have a differing view.

    "Seriously you guys? Ok whatever...." is a rather terse response. I understand you are anti-Keystone, but this is an open forum and I feel your argument is one-sided and without objectivity. Therefore, I provided some.

    The oilsands of Alberta are not the "enemy" and frankly, as a Canadian it is rather insulting some Americans would take us to task for providing energy from a democratic peaceful nation, however have no problem purchasing it from dictators and monarchist regimes of the Middle East.
    In all these misinformed diatribes you refer to the benefits only being to Canadians (which is ridiculous) but is that not better than the Saudis? Or Libya?

    I am not saying oil from the oilsands is clean, there is pollution. I have worked up there, for ten years in fact. But it is nothing compared to what Detroit has done to Lake Erie for instance. Or the plastic island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

    They are improving every year, new technologies are making the extraction process cleaner and cleaner. Perhaps more research here is required. Alternative energy sources are fine, but to think we can survive without oil is naive.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    edited January 2015
    1ThoughtKnown wrote: »
    Mr. Lux, if you are willing to open a debate on the internet regarding an issue, you had better be mature enough to expect someone to have a differing view.

    "Seriously you guys? Ok whatever...." is a rather terse response. I understand you are anti-Keystone, but this is an open forum and I feel your argument is one-sided and without objectivity. Therefore, I provided some.

    The oilsands of Alberta are not the "enemy" and frankly, as a Canadian it is rather insulting some Americans would take us to task for providing energy from a democratic peaceful nation, however have no problem purchasing it from dictators and monarchist regimes of the Middle East.
    In all these misinformed diatribes you refer to the benefits only being to Canadians (which is ridiculous) but is that not better than the Saudis? Or Libya?

    I am not saying oil from the oilsands is clean, there is pollution. I have worked up there, for ten years in fact. But it is nothing compared to what Detroit has done to Lake Erie for instance. Or the plastic island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

    They are improving every year, new technologies are making the extraction process cleaner and cleaner. Perhaps more research here is required. Alternative energy sources are fine, but to think we can survive without oil is naive.

    Well sure, 1 Thought, I agree but at some point I get it that you and I will never agree. You believe we cannot exist without oil. That's a pretty closed circuit isn't it? I'm not saying we should or will get rid of all oil. It has some very useful purposes. So does vitamin C. Try living on vitamin C alone. Yeah, that's a bit of an exaggeration but really, we are wrecking the planet with our oil addiction. You either believe or get that or you don't. If not, then what else can I say?

    Edit: But I have to add this- do you really, after all the evidence has been shown to the contrary, believe that this pipeline will add more jobs than other more useful work as illustrated in the short video above, that any jobs are more important than having an environment that will sustain the life of large mammals including humans and that your Canadian oil that would be pumped through this pipeline is really intended for US domestic use when evidence to the contrary for that too has been shown over and over again?

    But OK, yours is a fair call. I apologize for the unnecessarily terse response.

    Post edited by brianlux on
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • 1ThoughtKnown
    1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155
    I am not discussing the jobs, the environment or anything else.
    I am saying to you, the oil gets to the Gulf, whether from here or the Middle East et al. Where better (and environmentally safer) to get it from than your neighbour to the North?

    I believe that the environmental left has become to powerful, and the rhetoric is often painful to read/see/hear. I have learned in life, things are never as bad as they seem, and are never as good either. I did a news magazine as a young college student studying broadcasting. Of all the interviews I did, the only person who spoke with objectivity was the economist. I cannot remember his name but he said "listen we have resources, but we must use them responsibly"

    Makes sense to me. Oil is here to stay. Peace Brian, just want to let you know that people are affected by the sometimes false comments about the oilsands.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    How can the environmental left be too powerful when the economy is functioning well, and people are fat and happy? Too powerful in what way? The polution of the planet is getting worse and worse, the climate is being altered to a likely irrevocable degree, and the environmental left is too powerful? What influence is the environmental left evening having???? WTH are you talking about? it's drill baby drill, fracknation, oil sands away!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    1ThoughtKnown wrote: »
    I am not discussing the jobs, the environment or anything else.
    I am saying to you, the oil gets to the Gulf, whether from here or the Middle East et al. Where better (and environmentally safer) to get it from than your neighbour to the North?

    I believe that the environmental left has become to powerful, and the rhetoric is often painful to read/see/hear. I have learned in life, things are never as bad as they seem, and are never as good either. I did a news magazine as a young college student studying broadcasting. Of all the interviews I did, the only person who spoke with objectivity was the economist. I cannot remember his name but he said "listen we have resources, but we must use them responsibly"

    Makes sense to me. Oil is here to stay. Peace Brian, just want to let you know that people are affected by the sometimes false comments about the oilsands.

    It's interesting to me, Thought, that you categorize environmental concerns as leftist and powerful. I'm not sure how it is that caring for the world we live in is left, right or center. It's just common sense. As for "powerful", evidently not enough so to stop the destruction that continues all the time. If I were to erase everything I've ever read, studied and heard about environmental issues, I would still be very concerned about the physical state of things simply based on six plus decades of observational experience. That experiential reflection would lead me to believe that place is going to hell in a hand basket. And the evidence is out there to support that and I don't mean leftist pundit rhetoric, I mean measurable scientific data collected by literally thousands of highly qualified people* who do this out of interest and concern for the world we live in.

    *Try reading articles on the realclimate.org web site for example. It will blow your mind how highly functioning these people are.

    But anyway, Thought, peace to you to and I hope you understand that my intention is to never negatively affect anyone by what I post here as I try very hard to find accurate information.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    Oil is here to stay? There is a limited amount of fossil fuels in the earth. Limited. Use it up while relying on it as a primary source of energy and we're screwed.

    The very idea that being environmental is a political thing was born out of the the George Bush administration, when oil company lobbyists became as powerful as they are, and in bed with republican politicians. This was never even a political motivator until the Bush administration made it one. Other countries don't play that political game, they know it's a planetary issue, but Americans were fooled into thinking that it's all about politics.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    backseatLover12 wrote: »
    Oil is here to stay? There is a limited amount of fossil fuels in the earth. Limited. Use it up while relying on it as a primary source of energy and we're screwed.

    The very idea that being environmental is a political thing was born out of the the George Bush administration, when oil company lobbyists became as powerful as they are, and in bed with republican politicians. This was never even a political motivator until the Bush administration made it one. Other countries don't play that political game, they know it's a planetary issue, but Americans were fooled into thinking that it's all about politics.

    I tried to explain the concept of peak oil to my young nephew once. He said, "There will always be oil, the earth will keep making it." I didn't tell him this but I thought, "Yeah, but only if a big meteor hit the earth and we and what's left of our forests become oil several thousand years from now."

    Meanwhile, we'll likely squeeze out every drop of oil we can and continue to harvest the planet's natural resources from the earth and what we take again through August this year from the earth will sustain us and after that it all comes out our children's bank account from their future.

    I must be feeling a bit cynical today. Sorry about that! I will log in another "no drive" day and write rather than play today. Like Henry said, it's like throwing a cup of water into the ocean in an attempt to de-acidify it but we do it anyway and hope for the best.

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Even a meteor impact wouldn't create the kind of carbon deposits that were laid down in the carboniferous period. For one, there isn't enough vegetable matter left, and two, the organisms that break down plant matter didn't exist then, and they do now.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    rgambs wrote: »
    Even a meteor impact wouldn't create the kind of carbon deposits that were laid down in the carboniferous period. For one, there isn't enough vegetable matter left, and two, the organisms that break down plant matter didn't exist then, and they do now.

    Interesting- I didn't know that. Thanks, rg!

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,305
    The Saudi strategy appear to be to choke off tar sand production by keeping the price of oil down. If they can get it under $40 / barrel, I wonder if that will null tar sand production if it becomes unprofitable?

    It's ironic that I end up selling my gas guzzling Silverado a month ago only to see gas go under $2/gal. It's nice not paying $95 to fill up a tank of gas.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    Jason P wrote: »
    The Saudi strategy appear to be to choke off tar sand production by keeping the price of oil down. If they can get it under $40 / barrel, I wonder if that will null tar sand production if it becomes unprofitable?

    It's ironic that I end up selling my gas guzzling Silverado a month ago only to see gas go under $2/gal. It's nice not paying $95 to fill up a tank of gas.

    When gas eventually goes to $10 a gallon or more you will be glad to have dumped your gas guzzler, Jason. I'm guessing a lot of them will get melted down some day.

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Yeah, the organisms hadn't evolved to break down lignin yet so that's why the newly evolved trees and plants just piled up instead of rotting, as they do now. Hundreds of thousands of years (at the bare minimum) of carbon sequestered into the earth and we are going to release it all in a few centuries...SMFH
    And some folks have the audacity to think we can't effect planetary climate while they walk around breathing (wasting?) oxygen that didn't exist on this planet until it was created by microscopic bacteria.... Double SMFH!!!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    SMFH... I had to look that one up, rg.

    We need a head shaking smiley, hahaha!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    What is SMFH? Slam my f'ing head?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Shake/shaking or Slap/slapping My Fucking Head
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    I like slam lol
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?

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