On Eddie Vedder and Israel/Palestine

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Comments

  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,378
    Aafke said:

    One of the main problems in these kind of discussions, in my opinion...
    Great things are said, but does anyone hear them?

    image

    Well put!
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    rr165892 said:

    Correct me if I'm wrong(I know you will and think I am)But its not just Israel that wants Hamas out. All the moderate surrounding Arab states do.Your clinging to a sinking ship getting into bed with them.You guys can do better for representation.

    Do you not think that it's up to the Palestinians to decide who governs them politically? As to what Israel wants, Israel simply wants a 'moderate' Palestinian government that will agree to it's carve-up of the West bank into a series of disconnected islands - Apartheid-style bantustans. That's what the Israeli's want.
    And the reason they have a problem with Hamas, and the PLO before them, is because Hamas, like the PLO, calls for a settlement of the conflict based on international law, and not a settlement of the conflict based on what Israel wants.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited July 2014
    You pretend that the obstacle to peace is Hamas. I suggest you take a look at the history of the so-called 'peace process' http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-siegman/the-great-middle-east-peace-process-scam

    Also, the whole World supports a peaceful settlement based on international law. (Scroll up this page for the evidence I already provided). The whole World supports it, including the Palestinians, and every year the U.S vetoes it. The whole World is on one side, and the U.S and Israel are on the other. And yet you pretend that Hamas is the problem?


    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-siegman/the-great-middle-east-peace-process-scam

    '...all previous peace initiatives have got nowhere for a reason that neither Bush nor the EU has had the political courage to acknowledge. That reason is the consensus reached long ago by Israel’s decision-making elites that Israel will never allow the emergence of a Palestinian state which denies it effective military and economic control of the West Bank. To be sure, Israel would allow – indeed, it would insist on – the creation of a number of isolated enclaves that Palestinians could call a state, but only in order to prevent the creation of a binational state in which Palestinians would be the majority.

    ...Just one year after the 1967 war, Moshe Dayan, a former IDF chief of staff who at the time was minister of defence, described his plan for the future as ‘the current reality in the territories’. ‘The plan,’ he said, ‘is being implemented in actual fact. What exists today must remain as a permanent arrangement in the West Bank.’ Ten years later, at a conference in Tel Aviv, Dayan said: ‘The question is not “What is the solution?” but “How do we live without a solution?”’ Geoffrey Aronson, who has monitored the settlement enterprise from its beginnings, summarises the situation as follows:

    "Living without a solution, then as now, was understood by Israel as the key to maximising the benefits of conquest while minimising the burdens and dangers of retreat or formal annexation. This commitment to the status quo, however, disguised a programme of expansion that generations of Israeli leaders supported as enabling, through Israeli settlement, the dynamic transformation of the territories and the expansion of effective Israeli sovereignty to the Jordan River."
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    About time:

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/amena-saleem/protesters-force-bbc-confront-its-pro-israel-bias

    Protesters force BBC to confront its pro-Israel bias
    07/17/2014


    Approximately 5,000 protesters brought the roads around the BBC’s London headquarters to a standstill on 15 July, forcing the news organization to confront its one-sided coverage of Israel’s current assault on Gaza.

    As the protesters shouted “BBC, shame on you,” Hugh Lanning, Chair of Palestine Solidarity Campaign (PSC), handed in a letter to the BBC’s Director General, Tony Hall. The letter calls on the BBC to reflect the reality of Gaza’s occupation and siege in its reporting. The open letter had been signed by 45,000 people in under a week. Signatories include scholar Noam Chomsky, filmmaker John Pilger, film director Ken Loach, musician Brian Eno, journalist Owen Jones and comedian and filmmaker Jeremy Hardy.

    Protesters held up placards bearing statements from the letter, including: “We would like to remind the BBC that Gaza has no army, air force or navy” and “The BBC’s reporting of Israel’s assaults on Gaza is entirely devoid of context or background.” Speakers from organizations including Palestine Solidarity Campaign, the Palestinian Forum in Britain, Friends of Al Aqsa and Stop the War addressed the crowds.

    As BBC employees watched from the top of their building, some recording the protest on mobile phones and tweeting out the footage, Lanning told the protestors: “There are lies, there are damned lies, and then there’s the BBC. Come on BBC, tell the truth — it’s the occupation, stupid.”

    image

    Taking place on its doorstep, and with police having to guide out BBC staff who wanted to leave the building, it was a protest against its coverage that the BBC couldn’t ignore.

    And the next day, the BBC’s flagship news program Today on Radio 4, ran a seven-minute segment asking, in the words of presenter Mishal Husain, “Are the protestors right? Have we been biased at the BBC in favor of Israel?”

    It was an unprecedented segment — and maybe the first time the BBC has publicly held up a mirror to its reporting of the occupation.

    Answering the question was Greg Philo, co-author of More Bad News from Israel, an in-depth study of the BBC and ITV’s (another British television network) coverage of Palestine, and professor of Communications and Social Change at Glasgow University.

    Philo’s answers also broke new ground for the BBC. Uninterrupted, Philo was allowed to talk about subjects which normally appear to be taboo across the BBC’s output: Israel’s occupation, its siege of Gaza, the forced displacement of Palestinians in 1948, Israel’s “brutal apartheid” as he was allowed to describe it, and the illegality of Israel’s actions.

    And, throughout, he emphasised the lack of the Palestinian viewpoint in BBC coverage in general.

    Philo also praised those who had been at the demonstration, telling Husain: “I think actually the protesters are doing the BBC a favor. I think they will help the journalists to give a better perspective … I’ve had many senior journalists at the BBC saying they simply can’t get the Palestinian viewpoint across, that the perspective they can’t say is the Palestinian view that Israel is a brutal apartheid state.”
    #BBCTruth4Gaza

    Asked by Husain what picture is given by BBC reporting, Philo replied: “Well, the Palestinian perspective is just not there. The Israelis are on twice as much. But the Palestinian view and the historical analysis of the events is that they were displaced from their land, they are living under military rule.”

    He added: “People don’t even understand that it’s a military occupation that Palestinians are subject to. They don’t know about the economic blockade, they don’t know about the consequences of that on Palestinian life.”

    As Husain interrupted to argue that the BBC had carried “many reports from Gaza … reporting on the casualties, reporting from the morgues,” Philo came back to remind her that the underlying story was not being dealt with.

    “The problem with the coverage is that it doesn’t refer to the history,” he said. “That [the Palestinians] lost their homes and lands, that the occupation and the way it is conducted is illegal, that they lose their water, that they had their lives, in effect, stolen from them … Even if the BBC can’t give the Palestinian view, it should at least respect international law. The BBC should be reporting the international judgements on things like the wall …”
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Byrnzie,Im sorry to add a small amount of humor to a horrible situation,but I ran across this on the new urban dictionary.
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=byrnzie

    Is this true?
  • rssesq
    rssesq Fairfield County Posts: 3,299
    God Bless Mr. Eddie Vedder and Mr. Roger Waters. Being part of the music industry and voicing their opinions without fear, BRAVO.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOxoD-yqNOw
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    rr165892 said:

    Byrnzie,Im sorry to add a small amount of humor to a horrible situation,but I ran across this on the new urban dictionary.
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=byrnzie

    Is this true?

    So fucken lame, but would should we expect from u
  • rssesq said:

    God Bless Mr. Eddie Vedder and Mr. Roger Waters. Being part of the music industry and voicing their opinions without fear, BRAVO.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOxoD-yqNOw

    Hmmm... Eddie supports BDS? I thought he was just into that anti-war rhetoric?
    9.29.96, 8.28.98, 9.1.00, 7.5.03, 9.30.05, 6.1.06, 6.19.08, 6.20.08, 6.24.08, 10.27.09, 10.28.09, 10.30.09, 5.20.10, 9.3.11, 9.4.11, 9.2.12, 7.19.13...

    2013- Brooklyn2, Philly1, Philly2, NOLA
  • And tell me more about that unity government...
    9.29.96, 8.28.98, 9.1.00, 7.5.03, 9.30.05, 6.1.06, 6.19.08, 6.20.08, 6.24.08, 10.27.09, 10.28.09, 10.30.09, 5.20.10, 9.3.11, 9.4.11, 9.2.12, 7.19.13...

    2013- Brooklyn2, Philly1, Philly2, NOLA
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    badbrains said:

    rr165892 said:

    Byrnzie,Im sorry to add a small amount of humor to a horrible situation,but I ran across this on the new urban dictionary.
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=byrnzie

    Is this true?

    So fucken lame, but would should we expect from u
    What the fuck is wrong with you dude.Remove the stick that is firmly planted in your ass and chill out a little.I thought your partner there would get A chuckle out of it.It wasnt meant disrespectfully or with malice.Remember we are all on a PJ fan site so we all have a little common ground.Now fun and levity is not acceptable?I don't agree 100% with your politics so now being civil is below you? Classy Badbrains,very Classy.
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    rr165892 said:

    badbrains said:

    rr165892 said:

    Byrnzie,Im sorry to add a small amount of humor to a horrible situation,but I ran across this on the new urban dictionary.
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=byrnzie

    Is this true?

    So fucken lame, but would should we expect from u
    What the fuck is wrong with you dude.Remove the stick that is firmly planted in your ass and chill out a little.I thought your partner there would get A chuckle out of it.It wasnt meant disrespectfully or with malice.Remember we are all on a PJ fan site so we all have a little common ground.Now fun and levity is not acceptable?I don't agree 100% with your politics so now being civil is below you? Classy Badbrains,very Classy.
    Ya wasn't meant disrespectfully. Hahahaha very fucken funny. We're all laughing while your terrorists organization (yes Israeli government are terrorists) keep killing civilians. That's exactly what your bloodthirsty ass wants. It's all a fucken joke, Hahahahahaha, too bad you weren't born Palestinian. Now that would've been funny.
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    First of all Byrnzie quotes himself on LSD in his signature.If you can't see where the 2things are humorous together too bad.Its called a sense of humor,which can be very helpful at times like these.
    "My blood thirsty ass" your right that is funny.You just pull what served your agenda out of all our other exchanges apparently.I am not Israeli and not Palestinian.I have told you I am American ,and just because I support my countries policy of support for Israel does not mean I wish ill will toward innocent Palestinians caught in the middle of this mess.In fact I feel for them and hope they stay safe and out of harms way.But if you think that my opposition to Hamas,and my thinking they hurt your cause and only move the peace process farther from reality well....I don't know what to tell you .We can agree to disagree.
  • WMAmorican
    WMAmorican Posts: 248
    edited July 2014
    Wow, you ignorant anti-Semites are amazing. Israel accepts an Egyptian-proposed Gaza ceasefire; Hamas keeps firing. Hamas deliberately aims rockets at civilians; Israel tries to avoid them, actually calling civilians on the phone and dropping flyers on areas they're going to bomb, telling citizens to evacuate. So the Israelis use missile defense to protect their civilians and Hamas uses their civilians to protect their missiles.

    The moronic left (which I hope doesn't include Eddie) construes Israel–Gaza fighting as some morally equivalent “cycle of violence.” This is idiotic. What possible interest does Israel have in fighting? Everyone with an I.Q. over 70 knows Hamas started this latest war. And everyone should knows Hamas’s proudly self-declared mission: to eradicate Israel and its Jews.

    Apologists for Hamas attribute the fighting to supposed Israeli occupation and blockade. Occupation? There isn't a soldier, settler or single Israeli in Gaza. It was less than 10 years ago that Israel uprooted it settlements, expelled its citizens, withdrew its military and turned every inch of Gaza over to the Palestinians. There was no blockade. Israel wanted this new Palestinian state to succeed. To help the Gaza economy, Israel gave the Palestinians its 3,000 greenhouses that had produced fruit and flowers for export. It opened border crossings and encouraged commerce. The whole idea was to establish a model for two states living peacefully and productively side by side.

    And how did the Gaza Palis react to being granted by the Israelis what no previous ruler had ever given them — an independent territory? First, they demolished the greenhouses. Then they elected Hamas. Then, instead of building a state with political and economic institutions, they turned Gaza into a massive military base, filled with weapons, to make war on Israel. Where's the industry and infrastructure of the new Palestinian state? Nowhere. Instead, they built mile upon mile of underground tunnels to hide weapons and, when the going gets tough, military commanders. They spent millions importing and producing rockets, launchers, mortars, etc. and DELIBERATELY placed them in schools, hospitals, mosques and private homes to better expose their own civilians.

    It makes no sense...unless the whole point is to draw Israeli counter-fire, producing dead Palestinians (children are even better!) for international media. Which is why Hamas actually urges its people NOT to seek safety when Israel drops leaflets warning of an imminent attack.

    To deliberately wage war so your own people are killed is moral insanity, but it rests on a sickly rational premise: Given the way the world treats Israel, along with historical ignorance and reflexive sympathy for the supposed underdog, Palestinian casualties undermine Israel’s legitimacy and right to self-defense. So Hamas’ depravity sort of makes evil sense. All the morons condemn Israel, a state warred upon for 66 years yet goes to extraordinary lengths to AVOID harming the innocents its enemies use as shields.

    It’s really to the Israelis’ credit that amid all this madness they don't just bomb the living fuck out of all their neighbors that want to eradicate them. They have nukes, but don't use them. Does anyone in their right mind think Hamas WOULDN'T nuke Tel Aviv or Jerusalem if they could? Really?
    Post edited by WMAmorican on
  • Kat
    Kat Posts: 4,961
    Looks like this thread is done. Not putting up with name-calling and arguing. War is enough.
    Falling down,...not staying down
This discussion has been closed.