Jewish Settler Attacks = Terrorism
Comments
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I don't think that Palestinian administration under Fatah would serve any useful purpose. Though to be honest, I don't think it really matters. They could simply hold elections and decide for themselves. In the meantime, the borders of Israel could be fortified, with perhaps a U.N contingent in place, much like they have in Cyprus, separating the Turks and Greeks.yosi said:Byrnzie, let me ask you a question, and here I am not trying to bait you, if the occupation were to end tomorrow do you think the Palestinians would be better off under Abbas or under Hamas?
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What do you mean that administration under Fatah wouldn't serve any useful purpose? Just that choice of government should be left to the Palestinians rather than there being an insistence on Fatah by third parties?you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane0
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Well, the purpose of Fatah seems mainly to be pawns of the Israeli's. I don't think they represent the will of the majority of Palestinians.0
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Okay, but then that brings us back to the my original question, i.e., since the only alternative to Fatah at the moment seems to be Hamas, which one do you think is the more desirable alternative all things being equal? Put another way, would you be comfortable with a Palestinian state ruled by Hamas?you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane0
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My point, just to make plain where I'm going with this, is that the current popularity of Hamas relative to Fatah is itself a function (to some extent) of the two parties' interactions with Israel. The failure of peace negotiations lessens Fatah's popularity relative to Hamas. But that doesn't speak to conditions in a future state.you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane0
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To be perfectly frank, I don't care. It's up to the Palestinians to elect who they wish.
But Hamas have done a lot of good for the people of Gaza, and have been relatively successful in reigning in the more extremist factions.0 -
They've also been very illiberal, in line with their Islamist ideology. I'm surprised to hear you say that you don't care. Democracy is certainly to be encouraged but that doesn't mean you can't have an opinion, and given your constant insistence on liberal values with respect to Israel I would have thought that you'd expect no less in a Palestinian state.you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane0
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From what I understand, the Palestinians are not likely to become ultra-strict Muslims adhering to Sharia law. The militaristic/extremist tendencies of Hamas are an understandable reaction to occupation. I don't see any reason why that trend would continue under an eventual state of peace.yosi said:They've also been very illiberal, in line with their Islamist ideology. I'm surprised to hear you say that you don't care. Democracy is certainly to be encouraged but that doesn't mean you can't have an opinion, and given your constant insistence on liberal values with respect to Israel I would have thought that you'd expect no less in a Palestinian state.
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I don't think Hamas' ideology is indicative of most of Palestinian society, but I do think that Hamas is very serious about what they stand for. They are very much a part of the wider Islamist movement (or movements), and I think we can all agree that this is not an ideology that should be taken lightly. But just so I'm clear, you are of the belief that if the occupation ends all of the maladies of Palestinian society would end along with it?you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane0
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And we can all see what Zionism stands for. Come on yosi, wether u, I or Israel like it, the Palestinians chose Hamas as their choice of government. We all have to deal with it. Israel chose to have Zionist terrorist run their government for them and everybody is dealing with them. To say Israel's leaders aren't terrorist is a flat out lie. Perfect definition of terrorism. Let's not all forget one Ariel Sharon. Again to u and Israelis, Hamas are terrorist whereas in Palestine they are a freedom fighting government. Depends on who's eyes are looking. Burning a child alive, full blown TERRORISM! No fucken denying that. And I know you're not. I'll give you that. But in all honesty, these events of the past week are doing your country no good. For once, the people of the world are starting to see what these terrorist settlers truly are. To burn a child alive, wow, and here I thought only mad Arabs do shit like that, NOT young adults. Wow, youd think they'd know better. Not looking good for Israel, let's see how their powerful machine covers this up. Shit, they got away with Rachel corrie and that American film maker (sorry forgot his name). This shit is getting real REAL and not looking good.yosi said:I don't think Hamas' ideology is indicative of most of Palestinian society, but I do think that Hamas is very serious about what they stand for. They are very much a part of the wider Islamist movement (or movements), and I think we can all agree that this is not an ideology that should be taken lightly. But just so I'm clear, you are of the belief that if the occupation ends all of the maladies of Palestinian society would end along with it?
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Can I just chip in and ask if I'm understanding the consensus here correctly?badbrains said:
And we can all see what Zionism stands for. Come on yosi, wether u, I or Israel like it, the Palestinians chose Hamas as their choice of government. We all have to deal with it. Israel chose to have Zionist terrorist run their government for them and everybody is dealing with them. To say Israel's leaders aren't terrorist is a flat out lie. Perfect definition of terrorism. Let's not all forget one Ariel Sharon. Again to u and Israelis, Hamas are terrorist whereas in Palestine they are a freedom fighting government. Depends on who's eyes are looking. Burning a child alive, full blown TERRORISM! No fucken denying that. And I know you're not. I'll give you that. But in all honesty, these events of the past week are doing your country no good. For once, the people of the world are starting to see what these terrorist settlers truly are. To burn a child alive, wow, and here I thought only mad Arabs do shit like that, NOT young adults. Wow, youd think they'd know better. Not looking good for Israel, let's see how their powerful machine covers this up. Shit, they got away with Rachel corrie and that American film maker (sorry forgot his name). This shit is getting real REAL and not looking good.yosi said:I don't think Hamas' ideology is indicative of most of Palestinian society, but I do think that Hamas is very serious about what they stand for. They are very much a part of the wider Islamist movement (or movements), and I think we can all agree that this is not an ideology that should be taken lightly. But just so I'm clear, you are of the belief that if the occupation ends all of the maladies of Palestinian society would end along with it?
There are supposedly terrorists within Palestine, and within the Hamas government. The laws produced here would be expected to govern the region if Palestinians were liberated and their demands were met.
There are supposedly terrorists within Israel, and within the Israeli government. The laws produced here do (please correct me if I'm wrong) currently govern Israel, as well as Palestinian zones.
Terrorism is terrorism - why do we waste time rating wrong actions from one to ten? How could the Israelis - who witness things like significant drops in terror attacks when they build a fence around the perimeter of Palestinian zones - be expected to say "we will take down our barriers, and welcome your laws to govern ours"? How could the Palestinians - whose youth are being burned by Israelis - be expected to do anything similar?
And how can we, as outsiders from the situation whose information can realistically only be coming from biased sources, gauge which side is correct? Do we have the right? I seriously wish that someone could help shed some light on this situation. Yosi and Byrnzie, with all due respect, you degrade your opinions when you waste time attacking the credibility of each other. If you've got an issue with someone's source - the onus is on them to find another. If your opinion is only backed up by one expert, or one particular aggregation of opinions (ie. one site), honestly, it's worth next to nothing.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
Who's asking for the Israeli's to be governed by Palestinian laws? Nobody is. What's being asked is that the Palestinians be allowed to live in their own state in accordance with international law, and the will of the whole of the international community.benjs said:Terrorism is terrorism - why do we waste time rating wrong actions from one to ten? How could the Israelis - who witness things like significant drops in terror attacks when they build a fence around the perimeter of Palestinian zones - be expected to say "we will take down our barriers, and welcome your laws to govern ours"? How could the Palestinians - whose youth are being burned by Israelis - be expected to do anything similar?
What makes you think that information can only ever be biased?benjs said:And how can we, as outsiders from the situation whose information can realistically only be coming from biased sources, gauge which side is correct? Do we have the right? I seriously wish that someone could help shed some light on this situation. Yosi and Byrnzie, with all due respect, you degrade your opinions when you waste time attacking the credibility of each other. If you've got an issue with someone's source - the onus is on them to find another. If your opinion is only backed up by one expert, or one particular aggregation of opinions (ie. one site), honestly, it's worth next to nothing.
My information comes from many sources, such as the U.N, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, Haaretz, B'Tselem, The BBC, The Guardian, e.t.c.
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No, i didn't say that. But either way, I think it's irrelevant.yosi said:I don't think Hamas' ideology is indicative of most of Palestinian society, but I do think that Hamas is very serious about what they stand for. They are very much a part of the wider Islamist movement (or movements), and I think we can all agree that this is not an ideology that should be taken lightly. But just so I'm clear, you are of the belief that if the occupation ends all of the maladies of Palestinian society would end along with it?
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A few responses. First, the Khdeir murder was absolutely evil. Thankfully it appears that the perpetrators have been arrested and will be punished to the fullest extent of the law. From what I'm reading it seems that this murder has absolutely shocked the Israeli public, and many people are wondering whether this will be a watershed moment akin to the Rabin assassination. Here's hoping that some good can come out of this absolutely awful event.badbrains said:
And we can all see what Zionism stands for. Come on yosi, wether u, I or Israel like it, the Palestinians chose Hamas as their choice of government. We all have to deal with it. Israel chose to have Zionist terrorist run their government for them and everybody is dealing with them. To say Israel's leaders aren't terrorist is a flat out lie. Perfect definition of terrorism. Let's not all forget one Ariel Sharon. Again to u and Israelis, Hamas are terrorist whereas in Palestine they are a freedom fighting government. Depends on who's eyes are looking. Burning a child alive, full blown TERRORISM! No fucken denying that. And I know you're not. I'll give you that. But in all honesty, these events of the past week are doing your country no good. For once, the people of the world are starting to see what these terrorist settlers truly are. To burn a child alive, wow, and here I thought only mad Arabs do shit like that, NOT young adults. Wow, youd think they'd know better. Not looking good for Israel, let's see how their powerful machine covers this up. Shit, they got away with Rachel corrie and that American film maker (sorry forgot his name). This shit is getting real REAL and not looking good.yosi said:I don't think Hamas' ideology is indicative of most of Palestinian society, but I do think that Hamas is very serious about what they stand for. They are very much a part of the wider Islamist movement (or movements), and I think we can all agree that this is not an ideology that should be taken lightly. But just so I'm clear, you are of the belief that if the occupation ends all of the maladies of Palestinian society would end along with it?
As for Hamas, I never really got to my real point, so I guess I'll just lay it out there now. I absolutely see Hamas as an antisemitic, theocratic, reactionary terrorist organization and I think they're absolutely evil. Nothing can justify the intentional mass murder of innocent civilians. At the same time I recognize that they provide many valuable social services, and while I don't think it's justified, and is in fact reprehensible, I can understand why they are popular within Palestinian society (although my understanding is that their popularity has decreased significantly in the years since they assumed control of Gaza -- I may not be entirely up to date on that). I also am not suggesting that the democratic choices of the Palestinians not be respected (although it should also be said that those choices have their consequences).
My point in bringing up Hamas, and specifically what a Hamas controlled Palestinian state might look like, is to try to emphasize the importance of a negotiated peace rather than a unilateral Israeli withdrawal. Many commentators have pointed out that the collapse of peace negotiations between Abbas and Netanyahu weakens moderates within Palestinian society who advocate non-violence and a diplomatic solution. Each failure makes it seem that negotiations don't get results. Contrast this with the 1000 prisoners who were released in exchange for Gilad Shalit, which arguably sent the message that violence is effective. Similarly, the Israeli left's most common criticism of the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza was that it strengthened Hamas by reenforcing the notion that terrorism forced the evacuation. And by not negotiating the terms of the withdrawal with Abbas, Sharon lost (or wasted) an opportunity to give the "victory" for the Israeli disengagement to the moderate elements in Palestinian society.
Looking forward, a few things seem clear to me. The chances for peaceful coexistence between Israel and an independent Palestine will be significantly worse if Hamas (or another group like it) is the ruling power. A Hamas regime would also, from my perspective, be immeasurably worse for the Palestinians themselves. With Hamas in power the Palestinian state would almost certainly receive less international assistance. More importantly, the prospects would be much worse for a democratic state with free speech, a free press, and equal rights for religious and ethnic minorities, women, homosexuals, etc.
Now, as I said, I think that the democratic choices of the Palestinians should be respected. But we should remember that Palestinian society responds to the unfolding reality around them. If the occupation is ended by a negotiated peace it is much more likely that the resulting Palestinian state will be controlled by the moderates in Palestinian society, as they will be the ones to reap the rewards for ending the occupation. On the other hand, if the occupation abruptly ends through a unilateral withdrawal, as it did in Gaza, then I think it's much more likely that Hamas and their ilk will take the credit and assume control of the new state. Since I think both sides are better off avoiding this outcome it follows that efforts aimed at resolving the conflict should aim for a negotiated peace. That should be standard against which proposals are measured -- does this further a negotiated two state solution.you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane0 -
Thanks for jumping in. I always appreciate new voices in the conversation. I actually agree with you that it is almost impossible to find unbiased resources about the conflict. I think the straight news reporting from something like the NY Times is probably the closest you'll find (I know people on both sides will disagree, you don't need to tell me so). When it comes to finding unbiased analysis, good luck finding it. My preference is almost always to avoid using cut and paste sources. I'd prefer if everyone spoke for themselves and actually had a discussion rather than just exchanging the quoted opinions of other people. That's why I much prefer talking about the resolution of the conflict rather than the history of it, which invariably devolves into a blame game. When the discussion is forward-looking more people are prone to jump in with their own thoughts and there's less opportunity to get derailed by arguments over disputed facts that neither side will ever concede.benjs said:
Can I just chip in and ask if I'm understanding the consensus here correctly?badbrains said:
And we can all see what Zionism stands for. Come on yosi, wether u, I or Israel like it, the Palestinians chose Hamas as their choice of government. We all have to deal with it. Israel chose to have Zionist terrorist run their government for them and everybody is dealing with them. To say Israel's leaders aren't terrorist is a flat out lie. Perfect definition of terrorism. Let's not all forget one Ariel Sharon. Again to u and Israelis, Hamas are terrorist whereas in Palestine they are a freedom fighting government. Depends on who's eyes are looking. Burning a child alive, full blown TERRORISM! No fucken denying that. And I know you're not. I'll give you that. But in all honesty, these events of the past week are doing your country no good. For once, the people of the world are starting to see what these terrorist settlers truly are. To burn a child alive, wow, and here I thought only mad Arabs do shit like that, NOT young adults. Wow, youd think they'd know better. Not looking good for Israel, let's see how their powerful machine covers this up. Shit, they got away with Rachel corrie and that American film maker (sorry forgot his name). This shit is getting real REAL and not looking good.yosi said:I don't think Hamas' ideology is indicative of most of Palestinian society, but I do think that Hamas is very serious about what they stand for. They are very much a part of the wider Islamist movement (or movements), and I think we can all agree that this is not an ideology that should be taken lightly. But just so I'm clear, you are of the belief that if the occupation ends all of the maladies of Palestinian society would end along with it?
There are supposedly terrorists within Palestine, and within the Hamas government. The laws produced here would be expected to govern the region if Palestinians were liberated and their demands were met.
There are supposedly terrorists within Israel, and within the Israeli government. The laws produced here do (please correct me if I'm wrong) currently govern Israel, as well as Palestinian zones.
Terrorism is terrorism - why do we waste time rating wrong actions from one to ten? How could the Israelis - who witness things like significant drops in terror attacks when they build a fence around the perimeter of Palestinian zones - be expected to say "we will take down our barriers, and welcome your laws to govern ours"? How could the Palestinians - whose youth are being burned by Israelis - be expected to do anything similar?
And how can we, as outsiders from the situation whose information can realistically only be coming from biased sources, gauge which side is correct? Do we have the right? I seriously wish that someone could help shed some light on this situation. Yosi and Byrnzie, with all due respect, you degrade your opinions when you waste time attacking the credibility of each other. If you've got an issue with someone's source - the onus is on them to find another. If your opinion is only backed up by one expert, or one particular aggregation of opinions (ie. one site), honestly, it's worth next to nothing.you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane0 -
I disagree. I think it's immensely relevant. As I try to explain in my longer post, the manner in which the conflict is resolved will likely play a significant role in shaping the nature of the future Palestinian state. I think that anyone who cares about the Palestinians should not just care about them as victims of Israel, but also should care about the conditions of the state that they will eventually build.Byrnzie said:
No, i didn't say that. But either way, I think it's irrelevant.yosi said:I don't think Hamas' ideology is indicative of most of Palestinian society, but I do think that Hamas is very serious about what they stand for. They are very much a part of the wider Islamist movement (or movements), and I think we can all agree that this is not an ideology that should be taken lightly. But just so I'm clear, you are of the belief that if the occupation ends all of the maladies of Palestinian society would end along with it?
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane0 -
So, the Palestinians have their own state and their own laws. First, where is this state? Surely you're against the uprooting of a nation (the Israelis, I mean), so where does the Palestinian state exist? I'm assuming the Palestinians would not want to have their independence and maintain their current land use? So in what location do you put the Palestinians?Byrnzie said:
Who's asking for the Israeli's to be governed by Palestinian laws? Nobody is. What's being asked is that the Palestinians be allowed to live in their own state in accordance with international law, and the will of the whole of the international community.benjs said:Terrorism is terrorism - why do we waste time rating wrong actions from one to ten? How could the Israelis - who witness things like significant drops in terror attacks when they build a fence around the perimeter of Palestinian zones - be expected to say "we will take down our barriers, and welcome your laws to govern ours"? How could the Palestinians - whose youth are being burned by Israelis - be expected to do anything similar?
What makes you think that information can only ever be biased?benjs said:And how can we, as outsiders from the situation whose information can realistically only be coming from biased sources, gauge which side is correct? Do we have the right? I seriously wish that someone could help shed some light on this situation. Yosi and Byrnzie, with all due respect, you degrade your opinions when you waste time attacking the credibility of each other. If you've got an issue with someone's source - the onus is on them to find another. If your opinion is only backed up by one expert, or one particular aggregation of opinions (ie. one site), honestly, it's worth next to nothing.
My information comes from many sources, such as the U.N, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, Haaretz, B'Tselem, The BBC, The Guardian, e.t.c.
Next, who governs? And will a government who just want peace and independence (which in itself is not a certainty) appease the people of a nation who has felt frustrated and abused for years?'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
Don't yo realize that the peace has already been negotiated? The terms of a peaceful settlement have already been established. The only purpose of all these further negotiations is for the Israeli leadership to try and seize even more of what doesn't belong to them, and which they have no right to.yosi said:As for Hamas, I never really got to my real point, so I guess I'll just lay it out there now. I absolutely see Hamas as an antisemitic, theocratic, reactionary terrorist organization and I think they're absolutely evil. Nothing can justify the intentional mass murder of innocent civilians. At the same time I recognize that they provide many valuable social services, and while I don't think it's justified, and is in fact reprehensible, I can understand why they are popular within Palestinian society (although my understanding is that their popularity has decreased significantly in the years since they assumed control of Gaza -- I may not be entirely up to date on that). I also am not suggesting that the democratic choices of the Palestinians not be respected (although it should also be said that those choices have their consequences).
My point in bringing up Hamas, and specifically what a Hamas controlled Palestinian state might look like, is to try to emphasize the importance of a negotiated peace rather than a unilateral Israeli withdrawal. Many commentators have pointed out that the collapse of peace negotiations between Abbas and Netanyahu weakens moderates within Palestinian society who advocate non-violence and a diplomatic solution. Each failure makes it seem that negotiations don't get results. Contrast this with the 1000 prisoners who were released in exchange for Gilad Shalit, which arguably sent the message that violence is effective. Similarly, the Israeli left's most common criticism of the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza was that it strengthened Hamas by reenforcing the notion that terrorism forced the evacuation. And by not negotiating the terms of the withdrawal with Abbas, Sharon lost (or wasted) an opportunity to give the "victory" for the Israeli disengagement to the moderate elements in Palestinian society.
Looking forward, a few things seem clear to me. The chances for peaceful coexistence between Israel and an independent Palestine will be significantly worse if Hamas (or another group like it) is the ruling power. A Hamas regime would also, from my perspective, be immeasurably worse for the Palestinians themselves. With Hamas in power the Palestinian state would almost certainly receive less international assistance. More importantly, the prospects would be much worse for a democratic state with free speech, a free press, and equal rights for religious and ethnic minorities, women, homosexuals, etc.
Now, as I said, I think that the democratic choices of the Palestinians should be respected. But we should remember that Palestinian society responds to the unfolding reality around them. If the occupation is ended by a negotiated peace it is much more likely that the resulting Palestinian state will be controlled by the moderates in Palestinian society, as they will be the ones to reap the rewards for ending the occupation. On the other hand, if the occupation abruptly ends through a unilateral withdrawal, as it did in Gaza, then I think it's much more likely that Hamas and their ilk will take the credit and assume control of the new state. Since I think both sides are better off avoiding this outcome it follows that efforts aimed at resolving the conflict should aim for a negotiated peace. That should be standard against which proposals are measured -- does this further a negotiated two state solution.
As for Gaza, let's not pretend it was any kind of magnanimous gesture, as it was nothing of the sort. As the Israeli leadership themselves have admitted, it was merely a smokescreen - a public relations exercise - behind which they could increase settlement expansion in the West bank. Gaza, meanwhile, was turned into a virtual prison.
And so what if Hamas gain power? That eventuality can be dealt with if and when it happens, but it has absolutely no bearing on Israel's obligations re: the occupation. None whatsoever. And the Israeli's really are in no position to talk preach about terrorism, or of respect for ethnic minorities, e.t.c. Israel is not the shining beacon of democracy that your post implies.
Finally, do you really believe that the so-called 'peace talks' are anything other than a sham? A stalling tactic to allow the Israeli leadership to steal more land? Are you still not convinced after 45 years of intransigence and settlement expansion?
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Where is this state? This state is the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza. What makes you think Israel needs to be uprooted? Israel is currently engaged in an illegal occupation of Palestinian lands. It's settlements built on that occupied land that need to be uprooted. The settlements don't constitute Israel proper. The illegal settlers can move to Israel, or if they don't like that then they can move back to the U.S or Russia, or wherever else they came from.benjs said:So, the Palestinians have their own state and their own laws. First, where is this state? Surely you're against the uprooting of a nation (the Israelis, I mean), so where does the Palestinian state exist? I'm assuming the Palestinians would not want to have their independence and maintain their current land use? So in what location do you put the Palestinians?
Next, who governs? And will a government who just want peace and independence (which in itself is not a certainty) appease the people of a nation who has felt frustrated and abused for years?
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Why do the Palestinians have to be the ones uprooted? Why can't they just stay where they're at? Amazing, it's ok for the Israelis (as a nation) to have np uprooting the Palestinians but god forbid asking them to STOP settler land grabs and settlements. And also Benj, I have a feeling you know more about this conflict.benjs said:
So, the Palestinians have their own state and their own laws. First, where is this state? Surely you're against the uprooting of a nation (the Israelis, I mean), so where does the Palestinian state exist? I'm assuming the Palestinians would not want to have their independence and maintain their current land use? So in what location do you put the Palestinians?Byrnzie said:
Who's asking for the Israeli's to be governed by Palestinian laws? Nobody is. What's being asked is that the Palestinians be allowed to live in their own state in accordance with international law, and the will of the whole of the international community.benjs said:Terrorism is terrorism - why do we waste time rating wrong actions from one to ten? How could the Israelis - who witness things like significant drops in terror attacks when they build a fence around the perimeter of Palestinian zones - be expected to say "we will take down our barriers, and welcome your laws to govern ours"? How could the Palestinians - whose youth are being burned by Israelis - be expected to do anything similar?
What makes you think that information can only ever be biased?benjs said:And how can we, as outsiders from the situation whose information can realistically only be coming from biased sources, gauge which side is correct? Do we have the right? I seriously wish that someone could help shed some light on this situation. Yosi and Byrnzie, with all due respect, you degrade your opinions when you waste time attacking the credibility of each other. If you've got an issue with someone's source - the onus is on them to find another. If your opinion is only backed up by one expert, or one particular aggregation of opinions (ie. one site), honestly, it's worth next to nothing.
My information comes from many sources, such as the U.N, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, Haaretz, B'Tselem, The BBC, The Guardian, e.t.c.
Next, who governs? And will a government who just want peace and independence (which in itself is not a certainty) appease the people of a nation who has felt frustrated and abused for years?0
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