Jewish Settler Attacks = Terrorism

benjs

Byrnzie said:

benjs said:

Clearly the event that you're referring to is far more than just a coincidence, and I'm sure these times are a dime a dozen.

You're sure, are you? Go ahead and tell me how many Israeli's have been killed by Palestinians over the course of the last ten years. Then tell me how many Palestinians have been killed by Israeli's.
Then when you compare the numbers, let me know what conclusion you come to.

benjs said:

And also - from what I'm seeing, the things that have penetrated the news in a major way include Israel attacking Gaza, Israel authorizing troops, Israel burning Palestinians. These are the things which are making headlines.

When three Palestinian teenagers were shot and killed by an Israeli sniper last month did Obama go on national t.v and mourn their deaths? No, he didn't.
Also, when the Israeli's, after being fed blatant lies and racist remarks from the top of the Israeli leadership, went on the rampage through Palestinian neighbourhooods, and beat, and killed Palestinians, and looted their homes, was their any condemnation from Western leaders? No, there wasn't.

Sorry Byrnzie - I entirely used the wrong expression. I meant to say that I'm sure that these cover-ups happen far more than we're told.

As for your second point - I have literally no answer. I think that's entirely inexcusable and I wish I could give some reasoning, but I've got absolutely nothing. I wish the coverage were more equitable. Or equitable, period.

JK18472

Thought this was interesting.
Think what you will

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VTArVIHDelg

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/09/world/middleeast/by-phone-and-leaflet-israeli-attackers-warn-gazans.html?referrer=

badbrains

JK18472 said:

Thought this was interesting.
Think what you will

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VTArVIHDelg

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/09/world/middleeast/by-phone-and-leaflet-israeli-attackers-warn-gazans.html?referrer=

Let's all applaud Israel now! Great job guys!!!! =D> =D> =D>

benjs

badbrains said:

JK18472 said:

Thought this was interesting.
Think what you will

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VTArVIHDelg

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/09/world/middleeast/by-phone-and-leaflet-israeli-attackers-warn-gazans.html?referrer=

Let's all applaud Israel now! Great job guys!!!! =D> =D> =D>

I would NEVER applaud Israel for this (ie. don't know the context or necessity of even the warning 'non-lethal bomb' - if it's unprovoked, it shouldn't have been dropped), but I definitely wouldn't say it's ever right for an organization to condone its members acting as human shields to bombs or rockets... In my opinion, you do your best to protect human life to the best of your ability. Period.

JK18472

That's why I said, think what you will. It seems everyone has made up their mind on where they stand on this issue. No matter what. But this does show Israel trying to avoid civilian casualties. It shows Hammas using human shields. But again think what you will...

benjs

JK18472 said:

That's why I said, think what you will. It seems everyone has made up their mind on where they stand on this issue. No matter what. But this does show Israel trying to avoid civilian casualties. It shows Hammas using human shields. But again think what you will...

Well, it only shows Israel trying to avoid civilian casualties if, in fact, there was good cause for the attack in the first place. Which that video doesn't show at all. In conclusion: we're right back where we started, and people will be quick to criticize Israel's lack of transparency in matters like this. And then others will be quick to defend Israel and say their lack of transparency is because they have long-term goals which must be kept hush-hush. Like they say, to any two-sided argument, there's one side's opinion, the other side's, and then there's the truth. I don't have a clue which side is closer to the truth here.

badbrains

benjs said:

badbrains said:

JK18472 said:

Thought this was interesting.
Think what you will

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VTArVIHDelg

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/09/world/middleeast/by-phone-and-leaflet-israeli-attackers-warn-gazans.html?referrer=

Let's all applaud Israel now! Great job guys!!!! =D> =D> =D>

I would NEVER applaud Israel for this (ie. don't know the context or necessity of even the warning 'non-lethal bomb' - if it's unprovoked, it shouldn't have been dropped), but I definitely wouldn't say it's ever right for an organization to condone its members acting as human shields to bombs or rockets... In my opinion, you do your best to protect human life to the best of your ability. Period.

Ben, I was being sarcastic buddy.

benjs

badbrains said:

benjs said:

badbrains said:

JK18472 said:

Thought this was interesting.
Think what you will

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VTArVIHDelg

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/09/world/middleeast/by-phone-and-leaflet-israeli-attackers-warn-gazans.html?referrer=

Let's all applaud Israel now! Great job guys!!!! =D> =D> =D>

I would NEVER applaud Israel for this (ie. don't know the context or necessity of even the warning 'non-lethal bomb' - if it's unprovoked, it shouldn't have been dropped), but I definitely wouldn't say it's ever right for an organization to condone its members acting as human shields to bombs or rockets... In my opinion, you do your best to protect human life to the best of your ability. Period.

Ben, I was being sarcastic buddy.

I know you were... My point is that, while some may be, not every Israel supporter is blindsighted and naive enough to not be able to see past bullshit. It's crystal clear that this is an effort to glorify or gain sympathy for Israeli actions, and the tone of your statement, while sarcastic, was very evidently an implication that Israeli supporters are sheep who will put the country on a pedestal for each and every action they make.

benjs

Also... http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2014/07/09/major-news-out-of-israel-idf-chief-of-staff-approves-ground-offensive-plans/

This is scary. Not to mention the casualties related to Israeli attacks vs. attacks on Israel - who is protected by Iron Dome to a great degree. Can anyone here help me understand what good a ground offensive tactic can possibly bring? I can't think of anything.

JohnnieBeBlue

What good can it bring? How about a stoppage the the 400 rockets that have reigned down on Israel over the past week? Oh, I forgot. That's just a result of "the occupation" so how dare Israel defend its citizens.

badbrains

JohnnieBeBlue said:

What good can it bring? How about a stoppage the the 400 rockets that have reigned down on Israel over the past week? Oh, I forgot. That's just a result of "the occupation" so how dare Israel defend its citizens.

Ya how dare they fire firecrackers at Israel, you know with Israel dropping white phosphorus and all...

Go ahead and deny that too.

gimmesometruth27

JohnnieBeBlue said:

What good can it bring? How about a stoppage the the 400 rockets that have reigned down on Israel over the past week? Oh, I forgot. That's just a result of "the occupation" so how dare Israel defend its citizens.

it IS a result of the occupation.

what would you do if someone came onto your property, burned your olive grove, took your land, bulldozed your house, jailed your father, and displaced your family?

personally, i would probably want to attack those people. and i would probably die to avenge my family.

JohnnieBeBlue

badbrains said:

JohnnieBeBlue said:

What good can it bring? How about a stoppage the the 400 rockets that have reigned down on Israel over the past week? Oh, I forgot. That's just a result of "the occupation" so how dare Israel defend its citizens.

Ya how dare they fire firecrackers at Israel, you know with Israel dropping white phosphorus and all...

Go ahead and deny that too.

Yes, long range indiscriminate missiles fired at random, over 400 in total, but you can blow it off as "fire crackers." So Israel should just let missiles rain down on their people without a response? What do you think the US would do if Mexicans fired 400 missiles over the boarder at heavily populated cities in the US?

JohnnieBeBlue

gimmesometruth27 said:

JohnnieBeBlue said:

What good can it bring? How about a stoppage the the 400 rockets that have reigned down on Israel over the past week? Oh, I forgot. That's just a result of "the occupation" so how dare Israel defend its citizens.

it IS a result of the occupation.

what would you do if someone came onto your property, burned your olive grove, took your land, bulldozed your house, jailed your father, and displaced your family?

personally, i would probably want to attack those people. and i would probably die to avenge my family.

Yes, that is a great strategy that is sure to lead to peace. Regardless of whether you'd like to admit it or not, there have been Jews in what is now Israel for over 2000 years. Gaza is not occupied, and for every inch the Israelis have given up, they've only been met with violence in return. If your starting point is that the entire State of Israel is illegitimate, then there really is nothing to talk about at the bargaining table.

JK18472

Well said Johnnie B

badbrains

JK18472 said:

Well said Johnnie B

Brilliant

badbrains

JohnnieBeBlue said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

JohnnieBeBlue said:

What good can it bring? How about a stoppage the the 400 rockets that have reigned down on Israel over the past week? Oh, I forgot. That's just a result of "the occupation" so how dare Israel defend its citizens.

it IS a result of the occupation.

what would you do if someone came onto your property, burned your olive grove, took your land, bulldozed your house, jailed your father, and displaced your family?

personally, i would probably want to attack those people. and i would probably die to avenge my family.

Yes, that is a great strategy that is sure to lead to peace. Regardless of whether you'd like to admit it or not, there have been Jews in what is now Israel for over 2000 years. Gaza is not occupied, and for every inch the Israelis have given up, they've only been met with violence in return. If your starting point is that the entire State of Israel is illegitimate, then there really is nothing to talk about at the bargaining table.

Wait, what? Now I'm confused. If Jews have been living there for 2000 years and Palestinians have been living there for 2000 years, how come Israel was "created" 60+ years ago? And how come it says land of Palestine (phalistine) in the bible?

Ya I called them firecrackers cuz that's what they are and you know it. Stop pretending that they're some crazy ass missiles/rockets that are killing Israelis left and right. If they are, then how come the media isn't saying so? Are you now gonna tell us the media is biased against Israel? Or better yet anti-Semitic? Israel has been the ONLY country that has used chemical weapons against the Palestinians in this tragedy. White phosphorus to be exact. Something AGAINST the international law, but then again, when has Israel ever followed or obeyed the law.....rhitorical question.

gimmesometruth27

JohnnieBeBlue said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

JohnnieBeBlue said:

What good can it bring? How about a stoppage the the 400 rockets that have reigned down on Israel over the past week? Oh, I forgot. That's just a result of "the occupation" so how dare Israel defend its citizens.

it IS a result of the occupation.

what would you do if someone came onto your property, burned your olive grove, took your land, bulldozed your house, jailed your father, and displaced your family?

personally, i would probably want to attack those people. and i would probably die to avenge my family.

Yes, that is a great strategy that is sure to lead to peace. Regardless of whether you'd like to admit it or not, there have been Jews in what is now Israel for over 2000 years. Gaza is not occupied, and for every inch the Israelis have given up, they've only been met with violence in return. If your starting point is that the entire State of Israel is illegitimate, then there really is nothing to talk about at the bargaining table.

whoa, when is the last time israel voluntarily gave back any land??

israel is not interested in peace. not at all. if they were, they would stop construction and stop expanding settlements, which by the way, are illegal.... the israeli government has to have controversy, because then they can claim victimhood. victimhood gives them legitimacy in the eyes of the uninformed, like most americans.... just like republicans here can end the immigration issue, but they are not interested in doing so, because putting immigration to rest is politically advantageous to the democrats.

nobody said that hamas is free of blame. they are stupid for lobbing rockets. but rockets are their only resort. they lack the military that israel has, which was supplied courtesy of the us.

like every other country in the rest of the world agrees, except for the us of course, i have no issue with israel existing at the pre 1967 borders. every inch gained by israel since then has been found to be illegal according to international law, and as such, is not israeli land.

like the rest of the occupation apologists, you did not answer my question. if you were a palestinian in the scenario in my post, what would YOU do??

Byrnzie

JK18472 said:

Thought this was interesting.
Think what you will

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VTArVIHDelg

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/09/world/middleeast/by-phone-and-leaflet-israeli-attackers-warn-gazans.html?referrer=

Yet they still managed to kill over 1,600 Palestinian civilians during Operation Cast Lead.
The leaflet dropping was simply a cynical exercise in public relations designed to fool people like yourself who already believe that the Israeli's can do no wrong. Looks like it worked.

Oh, and by the way, leaflets were dropped on rural areas of Gaza telling the residents to head into the city, while leaflets were dropped on the urban areas of Gaza telling them to flee to the countryside. Work that one out for yourself.

Also, if it was Hamas fighters they were targeting, then do you really think that they wouldn't have also seen those leaflets and taken the relevant course of action? Or is that something that your brain hasn't acknowledged?

Byrnzie

JK18472 said:

It shows Hammas using human shields.

No it doesn't. It says that the neighbours gathered to form a human shield, in order to try and prevent their apartment building from being destroyed. In the event, it did no good, as seven people were killed, with 25 injured.
As for Hamas using human shields, they did nothing of the sort, despite what "The Israeli military said..."
And every investigation into Israel's assault on Gaza found no evidence at all of Hamas using civilians as human shields. But at the same time, there was ample evidence of Israeli soldiers using civilians as human shields.

http://www.alternet.org/story/141078/amnesty:_israel_used_children_as_human_shields_in_gaza
Amnesty on Thursday accused Israeli forces of war crimes in Gaza, saying they used children as human shields and conducted wanton attacks on civilians, in a report rejected as "unbalanced" by Israel.

The London-based human rights group also accused Hamas of war crimes, but said it found no evidence to support Israeli claims that Gaza's Islamist rulers used civilians as human shields during Israel's massive 22-day offensive.

...In numerous cases, Israeli troops forced Palestinians to stay in one room of their home while turning the rest of the house into a base and sniper position, "effectively using the families, both adults and children, as human shields and putting them at risk," the group said.

"Intentionally using civilians to shield a military objective, often referred to as using 'human shields' is a war crime," Amnesty said.

One Palestinian quoted in the report said Israeli troops forced him on three occasions to go into a house to check whether gunmen holed up inside were still alive.

The report said it found no evidence Palestinian fighters directed civilians to shield military objectives from attacks, forced them to stay in buildings used by militants, or prevented them from leaving commandeered buildings.'


The IDF were found guilty of deliberately targeting unarmed civilians in their attack on Gaza. They were found guilty of the shooting dead of women and children waving white flags. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/aug/13/israeli-soldiers-gaza-deaths-allegations

What do you think about that?


Also, Israel dropped white phosphorous shells on densely populated residential areas of Gaza, which is a war crime. http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/israeli-armys-use-white-phosphorus-gaza-clear-undeniable-20090119

What do you think about that?


Also, the IDF deliberately targeted medical personnel, 'leaving 16 medics dead'. This is a war crime, and contrary to the Geneva Convention. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/23/gaza-war-crimes-medics

What do you think about that?