For those who got screwed by the cops in Camden

TheDecline13 · July 2008

But honestly do you have to walk around with your beer to the venue? You cant finish it at the car? Im not saying what they did was far.

I wish they would crack down on all the drunks driving home from the venue.

karmakvisser · July 2008

TheDecline13 wrote:

But honestly do you have to walk around with your beer to the venue? You cant finish it at the car? Im not saying what they did was far.

I wish they would crack down on all the drunks driving home from the venue.

Again, questioning the original action is a moot point. We have agreed that it is indeed, against the law. The problem here is the degree to which the law is pursued. Coming in to park after paying 20 bucks a car, it seems that you are all in one facility. In reality, the parking lots were not part of the Tweeter Center. In the parking lots there was significant drinking going on. From the 1000's doing so, I don't recall seeing anyone out of hand. What I saw was many people socializing and having fun. My friend who received the ticket even went up to a cop in the parking lot and asked him about carrying the beer around. The cop asked how old he was. "31" Then you are fine. Based on that information, he didn't think twice about walking on the cordoned off streets to the Tweeter center.

So in essence, drinking was condoned within the confines of the parking lots. We were 3 city blocks from the Tweeter center. Evidently, between the parking lots and the Tweeter center, you were on public streets. Even thought they were blocked off to traffic, still a public street.

So in one area beer ok, then 5 feet away, beer illegal. In here I'm safe, over here, I am illegal. So on a technicality, the police were correct. And again, if they had stuck to the original ticket, no problem. Pay the fine and I'm on with my life. But then came the Camden 2 step and bam, you're out $533 bucks. And its easy to sit at your computer and state that there is no way I would plead guilty. They were intimidating people via the process to just get it over with. And like someone mentioned, finding that sweet spot between do I fight it or do I make it go away.

And for the record, I'm totally with you on the drunk driving bit as well. Not a good decision to make. I'm also highly disappointed at the amount of litter left behind. It was embarrassing. But I also put some onus on the parking lot owners. If you are charging $20 bucks a car to park, realizing that people are coming to enjoy themselves, you need to make trash facilities more available.

And once again, the true intent of this thread was to try and prevent this from happening in the future via educating people on the situation. We need to prevent Camden from scamming future concert goers. One thing i know for certain is that the money gained from this exercise was not being spent wisely on the poor folk that have to live in that crap hole of a town. It will be given to the highest campaign contributors who happen to be service providers of some ilk putting in non-bid contract to pick up the trash at the Tweeter center or some BS like that. The money most assuredly won't go to job fair training or good public works programs offering services to those that desperately need it.

ken

TheDecline13 · July 2008

karmakvisser wrote:

Again, questioning the original action is a moot point. We have agreed that it is indeed, against the law. The problem here is the degree to which the law is pursued. Coming in to park after paying 20 bucks a car, it seems that you are all in one facility. In reality, the parking lots were not part of the Tweeter Center. In the parking lots there was significant drinking going on. From the 1000's doing so, I don't recall seeing anyone out of hand. What I saw was many people socializing and having fun. My friend who received the ticket even went up to a cop in the parking lot and asked him about carrying the beer around. The cop asked how old he was. "31" Then you are fine. Based on that information, he didn't think twice about walking on the cordoned off streets to the Tweeter center.

So in essence, drinking was condoned within the confines of the parking lots. We were 3 city blocks from the Tweeter center. Evidently, between the parking lots and the Tweeter center, you were on public streets. Even thought they were blocked off to traffic, still a public street.

So in one area beer ok, then 5 feet away, beer illegal. In here I'm safe, over here, I am illegal. So on a technicality, the police were correct. And again, if they had stuck to the original ticket, no problem. Pay the fine and I'm on with my life. But then came the Camden 2 step and bam, you're out $533 bucks. And its easy to sit at your computer and state that there is no way I would plead guilty. They were intimidating people via the process to just get it over with. And like someone mentioned, finding that sweet spot between do I fight it or do I make it go away.

And for the record, I'm totally with you on the drunk driving bit as well. Not a good decision to make. I'm also highly disappointed at the amount of litter left behind. It was embarrassing. But I also put some onus on the parking lot owners. If you are charging $20 bucks a car to park, realizing that people are coming to enjoy themselves, you need to make trash facilities more available.

And once again, the true intent of this thread was to try and prevent this from happening in the future via educating people on the situation. We need to prevent Camden from scamming future concert goers. One thing i know for certain is that the money gained from this exercise was not being spent wisely on the poor folk that have to live in that crap hole of a town. It will be given to the highest campaign contributors who happen to be service providers of some ilk putting in non-bid contract to pick up the trash at the Tweeter center or some BS like that. The money most assuredly won't go to job fair training or good public works programs offering services to those that desperately need it.

ken

Did you happen to get the cops badge number?

And I really dont think more trash cans would help with the garbage. Ive been to every Camden show and the parking lots all look the same, SHIT. I think the majority of PJ fans a lazy slobs. I know thats going to piss a lot of people off but fuck it, truth hurts. Why cant you pick up after yourself? Big a bag a throw it away its that easy. Thats why I smoke weed less clean up.

mookieblalock · July 2008

For those of you actiing all high and mighty...there are lots of things in this country that technically illegal, which are rarely enforced.

For example: In many states (I believe NY being one if I remember correctly), it is still illegal for a married couple to engage in oral sex.

Has anyone ever been arrested for this? There are countless laws like this that have never been taken off the books that are technically still the law. People do them anyway, with little expectation of that something is enforced.

Nobody in this forum is perfect, including myself. Some of you act happy about what happened.

Did these people have poor judgement? Perhaps; but I think focusing on the act versus the shady behavior of the court (which was the main point of the OP) is ridiculous and arrogant.

hoopinman · July 2008

Get_Right wrote:

no surprise really.

You take your chances drinking in a lot on the street, wherever its not licensed. And you take your chances that the local police or prosecutor will screw you. Its easy pickins when the rock show comes to town. Too easy.

Sorry that happened but its price you pay when you drink in public. This is not 1980.

Nor is this New Orleans...the ONLY city where its legal to drink from an open container

mookieblalock · July 2008

hoopinman wrote:

Nor is this New Orleans...the ONLY city where its legal to drink from an open container

Apparently you've never been to Las Vegas?

chromiam · July 2008

Again had to pick at a couple of things...
First,

karmakvisser wrote:

So in one area beer ok, then 5 feet away, beer illegal. In here I'm safe, over here, I am illegal. So on a technicality, the police were correct. And again, if they had stuck to the original ticket, no problem. Pay the fine and I'm on with my life. But then came the Camden 2 step and bam, you're out $533 bucks. And its easy to sit at your computer and state that there is no way I would plead guilty. They were intimidating people via the process to just get it over with. And like someone mentioned, finding that sweet spot between do I fight it or do I make it go away.

No technicality... it is ILLEGAL to have an open container of alcohol on a public street. Plain and simple, so stop trying to brush it off like they changed the rules after thousands of people showed up.
It's easy for people to say they wouldn't plead guilty because its true. Why would you just blindly plead guilty to a charge that is false??? You have rights and have the right to exercise them. If you CHOOSE not to, then that is your right as well. Please stop trying to make this a big conspiracy where everyone was duped with no recourse whatsoever.

karmakvisser wrote:

And once again, the true intent of this thread was to try and prevent this from happening in the future via educating people on the situation. We need to prevent Camden from scamming future concert goers. One thing i know for certain is that the money gained from this exercise was not being spent wisely on the poor folk that have to live in that crap hole of a town. It will be given to the highest campaign contributors who happen to be service providers of some ilk putting in non-bid contract to pick up the trash at the Tweeter center or some BS like that. The money most assuredly won't go to job fair training or good public works programs offering services to those that desperately need it.

Do you know where this money goes???

I didn't think so.

karmakvisser · July 2008

chromiam wrote:

Again had to pick at a couple of things...
First,

No technicality... it is ILLEGAL to have an open container of alcohol on a public street. Plain and simple, so stop trying to brush it off like they changed the rules after thousands of people showed up.
It's easy for people to say they wouldn't plead guilty because its true. Why would you just blindly plead guilty to a charge that is false??? You have rights and have the right to exercise them. If you CHOOSE not to, then that is your right as well. Please stop trying to make this a big conspiracy where everyone was duped with no recourse whatsoever.

Do you know where this money goes???

I didn't think so.

Again, you have managed to totally miss the point. Thank you so much for the rudimentary spelling out of what has already been said. And thank you so much for your enlightening response concerning alcohol consumption. I don't even want to regurgitate that subject. What is the conspiracy is that the assholes in the Camden judiciary system managed to find that sweet spot of how much will someone pay to never have to come back to this shithole ever again.

As far as where the money goes, Camden is a notorious corrupt shithole where I believe the past two mayors have ended up in jail. If you go 2 blocks from the tweeter center, you see the lovely poverty stricken neighborhoods from which a successful exit is by no means coming with any assistance from the government. Not that it is the government's responsibility to pull everyone out of the spiral of poverty. But at least give the appearance that you want to help those less fortunate out. But this is all once again, off the point.

As I have stated before, my goal is to warn as many people as possible about protecting yourself from this abuse of power. I am rather stunned by the amount of "you should have known better". How many times do I have to state that my friend was more than willing to take responsibility for his actions? It was the government that decided to trump up the charges. And yes, he could have said no, not guilty. That was his decision. As it was 99% of the people who plead guilty. However, I have a lawyer that is interested in fighting this abuse of power. I just need someone to standup and at least talk about the facts of what happened.

warmest regards

ken

chromiam · August 2008

Again, you avoid showing how you know the money goes to corupt individuals and not the city but I guess that works for you.

You've warned whoever visits this board... good for you. But if you have noticed the lack of people standing up to talk with your lawyer, maybe you should consider that one of two things could be ocurring. 1- Not as many people who go to PJ shows use this board as you think or 2- Not all PJ fans blindly follow along when changes are made by government organizations which affect them and their daily lives. They use the rights given to them to defend themselves.

karmakvisser · August 2008

chromiam wrote:

Again, you avoid showing how you know the money goes to corupt individuals and not the city but I guess that works for you.

You've warned whoever visits this board... good for you. But if you have noticed the lack of people standing up to talk with your lawyer, maybe you should consider that one of two things could be ocurring. 1- Not as many people who go to PJ shows use this board as you think or 2- Not all PJ fans blindly follow along when changes are made by government organizations which affect them and their daily lives. They use the rights given to them to defend themselves.

That the city of Camden has suffered fully from the effects of corruption is a very easy case to make. Do I personally have video of the money exchanging hands? Of course not. But from doing just a smattering of research it is easy to see the course of Camden politics. By driving just 1 block off the main grid, you see the poverty that is a direct result of funds being syphoned off for illicit purposes.

Do you have proof that Camden is not corrupt?

As far as PJ fans standing up for their rights, my friend saw 99.9% of those around him cave, just like he did. What happened in Camden was wrong. It pisses me off as a citizen of this country.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9906E7D61138F933A25754C0A9679C8B63

A corruption scandal in the Camden Parking Authority erupted in violence today when the former executive director of the authority, facing criminal corruption charges, died, apparently in a suicide, after shooting and severely injuring a former employee and accuser.

The former director, Anthony Scarduzio, was found dead with a single shot in the head at a friend's house in Monroe Township about 10 a.m., the police said.

Moments later, police officers responded to a call for help from a Washington Township frozen custard stand owned by Joseph Bowen, a former employee of the Parking Authority who had been a whistle-blower. Mr. Bowen had been shot several times and beaten on the head with a baseball bat.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C04E2DF103CF936A15750C0A9679C8B63

There's more. The mayor of Camden is convicted of being the mob's City Hall liaison, while the police chief of West New York, N.J., admits that after taking an oath to protect and serve, he protected and served prostitution and gambling rings.

http://corruptcamdencouncil.blogspot.com/

http://www.northjersey.com/news/njpolitics/25954474.html

The flamboyant Sharpe James, former mayor of Newark, has just been convicted of felonies. So was Martin Barnes, a former mayor of Paterson, and so were three of the last six mayors of Camden.

http://www.politickernj.com/tags/camden?page=2

In the wake of a recent series of scandals involving elected officials that have been shocked the public and sparked calls immediate action to clean up political corruption in New Jersey, DeCroce sent a letter to Assembly Speaker Joseph J. Roberts, D-Camden, yesterday urging him to bring the Assembly back to deal with the issue, which he said has reached crisis proportions.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9805E5D81638F931A15751C1A9669C8B63

Camden's Mayor Is Guilty of 14 Corruption Counts

Milton Milan, the mayor of this stricken city, was convicted today of 14 of the 19 corruption charges against him, including accepting bribes from organized crime figures, money laundering and insurance fraud.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A06EFDD133CF932A05750C0A9669C8B63

The ills of this desperate city deepened today with the indictment of its mayor, Milton Milan, on 19 charges of corruption, ranging from laundering drug money and taking bribes from organized crime leaders to stealing his own computer, collecting the insurance and then selling it to a naive office volunteer for three times its worth.

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/dec/22/news/mn-3402
amden Mayor Milton Milan was convicted of taking mob payoffs, laundering drug money and stealing campaign funds, becoming the third of the last five mayors of New Jersey’s poorest city to be found guilty of corruption. Milan, 38, was convicted of 14 of the 19 charges against him. He faces nine to 11 years in prison at sentencing April 5. Federal prosecutors relied on testimony from Ralph Natale, the former boss of the Philadelphia-South Jersey mob and one of the highest-ranking American Mafia figures ever to turn government witness.

LarryLegend · August 2008

I just read this thread and I'm shocked by a lot of these reactions.

There a few things that should be obvious but don't appear to based on a lot of the response. So let's get the following out of the way first:

1. The guy WAS drinking a beer in a public place and was admitted guilty of what he was ticketed for.
2. The police were there for crowd control. They have some selection in how they carry this out and how they ticket, just in the way that a police office on the side of the road with a radar gun isn't going to stop every car or the first car he finds driving over 55 MPH.
3. This put a massive strain on the Camden legal system. We can assume that the vast majority of the people there were guilty based on the fact that is incredibly unlikely that the police would ticket those not drinking while they let so many that were drinking off. People largely showed up because they were pissed that others didn't get ticketed and they did, and because they were hoping that they could get out the fine. Many were counting on putting this strain on the system and thinking they needed to bring in the police office or they would instantly have the changes dropped. The majority of the people there should have just paid their fine in the first place. When their system was flood with people who were now become a nuisance for a 2nd time, they reacted quite poorly.

With all of that said, the key issue here is one of rights and we shouldn't forget that. By using a continually escalating penalty, Camden is saying, in essense, is that an individual does not have the ability to be heard and challenge your accuser, which is the cornerstone of our legal system. This situation is unjust and reeks of tyranny. I hope those that were bullied into paying $500 do find recourse, but it is unlikely.

$78 was a completely reasonable fine. It's not even a situation like a speeding ticket where you might pay $150 now, but then pay $1500 over the next several years for increased insurance premiums. In the future, if you are guilty, pay your fine and be on your way. It will give the few who aren't guilty a fighting chance.

P.S. A prosecutor can't hold someone in contempt of court. Only a judge.

karmakvisser · August 2008

LarryLegend wrote:

3. People largely showed up because they were pissed that others didn't get ticketed and they did, and because they were hoping that they could get out the fine. Many were counting on putting this strain on the system and thinking they needed to bring in the police office or they would instantly have the changes dropped. The majority of the people there should have just paid their fine in the first place. When their system was flood with people who were now become a nuisance for a 2nd time, they reacted quite poorly.

The people were there because every single ticket issue had the check box marked, MUST APPEAR. It was Camden's decision to follow that policy. They wanted everyone to come to the kangaroo court because they knew they were going to jack the fines up.

This was a premeditated action by the police in conjuntion with the court system to screw anyone who was caught in the middle. When you have 1000's of people enjoying themselves in what appears to be a sanctioned drinking area, it is inevitable that a percentage will migrate towards the venue still holding a beer. My wife missed it by circumstances, luckily.

My friend would have gladly paid the $78 fine and court costs if he was given the option to do so.

This was a pure money grab by any means.

ken

LarryLegend · August 2008

karmakvisser wrote:

The people were there because every single ticket issue had the check box marked, MUST APPEAR. It was Camden's decision to follow that policy. They wanted everyone to come to the kangaroo court because they knew they were going to jack the fines up.

This was a premeditated action by the police in conjuntion with the court system to screw anyone who was caught in the middle. When you have 1000's of people enjoying themselves in what appears to be a sanctioned drinking area, it is inevitable that a percentage will migrate towards the venue still holding a beer. My wife missed it by circumstances, luckily.

My friend would have gladly paid the $78 fine and court costs if he was given the option to do so.

This was a pure money grab by any means.

ken

Missed the 'MUST APPEAR' piece, although I have to say that makes the case worse, not better. That should have been a serious indicator that the police would be suggesting to the DA's office that the individual be charged with something greater than what they were ticketed with. That is why they check that box. I personally never, ever would have walked into that situation without a good local lawyer. I do certainly understand how others did not.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that it is absolutely ludicrous that a $500 fine plus court costs would be the minimum fine here and the maximum, which the prosecutor was threatening, would involve jail time. Having plead guilty, I think there is just about zero cost-effective recourse for your friend other than warning people.

chromiam · August 2008

karmakvisser wrote:

That the city of Camden has suffered fully from the effects of corruption is a very easy case to make. Do I personally have video of the money exchanging hands? Of course not. But from doing just a smattering of research it is easy to see the course of Camden politics. By driving just 1 block off the main grid, you see the poverty that is a direct result of funds being syphoned off for illicit purposes.

Do you have proof that Camden is not corrupt?

As far as PJ fans standing up for their rights, my friend saw 99.9% of those around him cave, just like he did. What happened in Camden was wrong. It pisses me off as a citizen of this country.

4 articles about the same story about Mayor Milan.. kinda redundant, the others cite parking authority, Newark and just New Jersey in general. So nothing about the court system or the police department... nice job.

Your friend saw.. if your friend is that pissed why aren't they pursuing this??? Why aren't they talking to your lawyer??? You said you only needed one person to step up... As you stated, they broke everyone up into small groups to "intimidate them", so how many people did your friend see??? how many in his small group pleaded guilty??? What happened could possibly be wrong or the court could have been well within their rights to raise individual fines given the large scale of citations handed out for public consumption or do to the discretion of the court. You do know that courts have leeway in dealing with fines and pentalties correct??? They have just as much leeway to lower or throw out a fine or points on a ticket as they do to raise or add to it.

LarryLegend wrote:

With all of that said, the key issue here is one of rights and we shouldn't forget that. By using a continually escalating penalty, Camden is saying, in essense, is that an individual does not have the ability to be heard and challenge your accuser, which is the cornerstone of our legal system. This situation is unjust and reeks of tyranny. I hope those that were bullied into paying $500 do find recourse, but it is unlikely.

larry- no one was denied any rights here. They all had the same rights they had when they walked into court with the original fine amount. They all had the right an attorney at any point before their plea, they all had the right to plead not guilty, and they all had the right to plead guilty. According to karma's friend- most chose to waive their rights and plead guilty without a lawyer... that was their CHOICE, no one took that away from them.

heather_honey · August 2008

Bob Dylan said it best when he wrote, "In Jersey everything's legal as long as you don't get caught."

I'm a lifelong resident and although I can't believe people don't have more sense about pouring a beer into a cup, it is wrong that their charges were amended. This idea might be out of left field, but I'm thinking Jersey here, maybe the number of citations issued was what prompted the upped charges? Kind of contributing to an atmosphere kind of a thing?

I hope something can be done after the fact, as seems is being pursued, but seriously, just bring a cup next time. It would be nice if folks would tidy up after themselves, too. The only thing that shocks me more than the charges getting upped is the state of the parking lots when there are trash cans and dumpsters nearly empty in every direction after a show....

Pearl Jen · August 2008

heather_honey wrote:

Bob Dylan said it best when he wrote, "In Jersey everything's legal as long as you don't get caught."

I'm a lifelong resident and although I can't believe people don't have more sense about pouring a beer into a cup, it is wrong that their charges were amended. This idea might be out of left field, but I'm thinking Jersey here, maybe the number of citations issued was what prompted the upped charges? Kind of contributing to an atmosphere kind of a thing?

I hope something can be done after the fact, as seems is being pursued, but seriously, just bring a cup next time. It would be nice if folks would tidy up after themselves, too. The only thing that shocks me more than the charges getting upped is the state of the parking lots when there are trash cans and dumpsters nearly empty in every direction after a show....

So it's okay if they pour it into a cup? They are still drinking in public. Never drank in the parking lot, and I'm scared to now after hearing people's horror stories.

beachdweller · August 2008

karmakvisser wrote:

I'm reaching out to the fans that were royally screwed by the cops and the justice system of Camden.

Quick recap, at the Pearl Jam Camden concerts this past June, the cops were preying upon uninformed concert goers by seemingly ignoring any drinking in the parking lots but ticketing those with open containers in any public spaces. Now ignorance of the law is not an excuse so if those who were targeted were given the opportunity to pay off the fine and get it over with, end of story.

However, the government of Camden chose a different route. Here is the email a friend of mine sent after being screwed by the court system:

"Well my court date was a complete nightmare. Turns out there were about 1000 other people there that were also at the Pearl Jam show. I would say 99% of the people in court. When we got there they called out our names individually and we had to go up to the prosecuter who told us our fine. Meanest woman I've ever been in contact with. Not rude to me, but out of hand with other people simply trying to ask her a question. Threatening to hold them in contempt of court for asking questions.

When I got up to her desk, she said the charge of "Drinking in Public" which had a fine of $78 had been amended and now the offense was "inapropriate behavior" which held a minimum fine of $500 up to $1000 with 60 days jail time. She said the court was recommending the $500 fine. If I were to plead "not guilty" they would set a trial date at a later time in which they would try and prosecute for the higher penalty. So... of course everyone at the courthouse pleads guilty and all people in attendance are to pay $500 + $33 in court costs.

I'm not sure how they were allowed to change the charge after the ticket had already been written. It went from $78 - $500 without anyone knowing until the day of court. A lot of us compared tickets and everyone I talked to had "drinking in public" written on their ticket as the penalty.

Whats kinda funny is the people who were under 21 (some looking 14 or 15) were charged with the same fine. I am 31 years old and I was having a beer. Now I'm out $533. Wow... Needless to say I was shocked. A lot of girls that were there were sobbing. What a day. Pretty scary how the law can pretty much do whatever they want. I guess they could have fined everyone $10,000 if they chose to. It is either pay your fine or go to jail. So people will pay any amount.

That was the 8:30AM court time.... They also have a 12:30PM court time which was probably filled up as well."

With all that said, Pearl Jam fans were utterly ripped off and lied to and forced into an unfair situation. I contacted about 20 media outlets in the Philadelphia area with one anemic response from a disc jockey at WYSP. I also posted about this travesty of justice on another forum and was put in touch with an active NJ lawyer who has an interest in this type of civic disparity.

I need someone who was ticketed to email me at karmakvisser@yahoo.com. I want to put you in touch with this lawyer. No cost for the conversation. Merely exploring the exact nature of the charges and to see if there is a possibility of a lawsuit. My main goal is to stop this totally horrendous practice and to warn any future concert goers of the scam. Don't let anyone else fall victim to these assholes!

Eddie is always talking about people being accountable for their actions and furthermore, holding the government accountable for its actions! Stand up for your rights and show the assholes in the Camden judicial system that they can't stampede a bunch of younger folks into paying for a corrupt government!

Happy Monday!

ken

welcome to life, you didn't get screwed, this is nothing new, you can have your day in court, if you forego that constitutional right because of it's inconvenience, then who's fault is it. If you would have went to court, you probably would have had the case dropped on the trial date. The police usually don't have time to show up for court on these minor offenses.

so you said it best, ignorance it no excuse. It's a life lesson, sorry it happened, but you act like they targeted PJ fans only. What do you know about the situation in that area? Have you verified that they don't have a problem with DUI's or drunk in public incidences at that venue, and they are cracking down? A recent DUI crash leading to a death could be why? Could have been some assinine fans that pissed off the police that night that lead to the changes? As for the fines, that's pretty stantard across the U S in cities, maybe not towns, that there is a lot of variations of fines they can throw at you for an incident.

jimbee · August 2008

this thing still has legs?!?!?!? simple solution...stop going to camden / NJ for entertainment...plan and simple...that's the message that needs to be heard, until then, keep crying in your beer how badly you were treated...

heather_honey · August 2008

Pearl Jen wrote:

So it's okay if they pour it into a cup? They are still drinking in public. Never drank in the parking lot, and I'm scared to now after hearing people's horror stories.

According to the ordinance it's still not OKAY but the cops were not hassling anyone with a cup unless they looked like they could have been under age. I go to a lot of shows (Camden and elsewhere) and the cops all seem to be fine with the cup approach, even though it is clearly still a violation. I guess it's the best they can do to enforce the law when there are literally thousands breaking it. Weakest links get pinched. Not right, just the way it is.

Solat13 · August 2008

Pearl Jen wrote:

So it's okay if they pour it into a cup? They are still drinking in public. Never drank in the parking lot, and I'm scared to now after hearing people's horror stories.

If you're in the lots right by the venue, the cops won't hassle you. If you park at the lots 3 blocks away down by the aquarium and walk on the street (out of the lots) with beer either in a cup or a bottle you may get cited.

I was at a concert 2 weeks ago and have been to 4 so far this summer at Camden and parked in the lots right across from the venue and tailgated and never had a problem. Just be smart and don't drink on the street and you'll be fine at Camden.

For those who got screwed by the cops in Camden

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