Sirens the Powerballade

fortyshades · September 2013

This is a comment that I keep hearing over and over again. I think that it is one of those words that stick and was first mentioned by the guy at alternative nation; from that moment onwards it had its own life. Comparisons to Black were made and 80's rock. When I think of powerballads however I think of Sweet Child of Mine, Every Rose has it Torns, Total Eclipse of the Heart and frankly every other Meatloaf song. And that is what Sirens is not. It has a guitar solo, but that is where every comparison stops...

Musically, this is a much more and difficult structured song than a typical power ballad. It doesn't follow the rule of verse, bridge, chorus, but has a much more complicated structure where the instruments blend together and the chorus seems even lost. The melody is carried by Ed's voice. With other words: this song is not accesable as first thought and I think, melody wise, it will generate interest, but it is not a typical radio friendly song. (Like Who You Are wasn't.)

Lyrically it is surprising. Some call it cheese - another word that sticks. (And as a Dutch man I love Gouda.) But there is much more depth to it. I first presumed the song was about the Greek Sirens, but in closer listen I believe that Sirens stands for Death/ Chaos in the face of love, life and growing older. In essence this is not even a love song, but a song about fragility.

And here we may come to an overarching theme. All the songs we heard so far is about a "inner revelation". (Maybe that is why LB is the title track?) IN LB it is someone who enters your life, in MYM it is about seeking truth in yourself and not in (religious or normative) institutions, and we can even put FD and the theme of SBM (Uke version) in this light. I haven't heard the other songs, but I think that LB could be a surprising record.

justam · September 2013

fortyshades wrote:

And here we may come to an overarching theme. All the songs we heard so far is about a "inner revelation". (Maybe that is why LB is the title track?) IN LB it is someone who enters your life, in MYM it is about seeking truth in yourself and not in (religious or normative) institutions, and we can even put FD and the theme of SBM (Uke version) in this light. I haven't heard the other songs, but I think that LB could be a surprising record.

I like how you've looked at the overall theme.

I feel that the real strength of Sirens is it's brave disclosure on a grand scale. It IS a power ballad and it makes no apology for that. It's making a confident declaration, and for once there's no shyness or dissimulation about the fact that they can write a big song that's deep but catchy too if they want to.

I hope that the more elite fans get over their discomfort with it's undisguised emotional message. Sometimes the fans feel like old friends who try to keep the band in some past form for their own comfort. Not everyone has to like every song and I think people need to give the band some room to try whatever they want to try!

I feel that the emotion is sincere and for once they've chosen to package it in a way that is obvious rather than hidden and I think that's rather amazing. Yes, it feels like a retro form, (80's hair band?!) but I think it works for this song. It is a very singable song and I think a lot of more casual fans will love it.

Stephen Flow · September 2013

I think at first it is pretty easy to discount Sirens as a "power ballad" because tonally it is very similar. However, that's pretty much where the comparison ends. Lyrically, Sirens is pretty dividing because of the content. I think it comes down to the listener being able to relate to the lyrics being sung. If you can't relate, you might think, ok this is cheesy... if you can relate then I think it comes off wonderfully.

slightofjeff · September 2013

Stephen Flow wrote:

I think at first it is pretty easy to discount Sirens as a "power ballad" because tonally it is very similar. However, that's pretty much where the comparison ends. Lyrically, Sirens is pretty dividing because of the content. I think it comes down to the listener being able to relate to the lyrics being sung. If you can't relate, you might think, ok this is cheesy... if you can relate then I think it comes off wonderfully.

I also think there are a whole lot of people on this board (and, in the world, I guess) who hear the word "love" in a song and automatically assume it's a "cheesy love song."

Sirens is not a love song. At least, not totally.

DewieCox · September 2013

Sweet Child o Mine and every Meatloaf I've ever heard are much less power ballad-y than Sirens.

Lyrically and melodically the singing is more nuanced than your typical hair band, but that's just because Ed is in a different class as a songwriter than most hair metal I've ever heard. It did surprise me lyrically after a few listens, b/c the bad lines really popped out at first, but there are still cheese goin on here.

Musically it follows a pretty similar structure to a lot of power ballads. Mellow verse>growing prechorus>bigger chorus>repeat>solo>big chorus that quiets as the song closes. The chorus isn't as big as is typical, bit it's definitely a fair comparison.

Mike gets in on the act as well. The really basic cowboy chords and he managed to outcheese Wisconsin with that solo.

I don't hate the song but let's not act like it's something it's not. I think a lot of people are afraid to admit they like something that is very power ballad ish and are trying to make more of it than it is.

pjsteelerfan · September 2013

DewieCox wrote:

Sweet Child o Mine and every Meatloaf I've ever heard are much less power ballad-y than Sirens.

Lyrically and melodically the singing is more nuanced than your typical hair band, but that's just because Ed is in a different class as a songwriter than most hair metal I've ever heard. It did surprise me lyrically after a few listens, b/c the bad lines really popped out at first, but there are still cheese goin on here.

Musically it follows a pretty similar structure to a lot of power ballads. Mellow verse>growing prechorus>bigger chorus>repeat>solo>big chorus that quiets as the song closes. The chorus isn't as big as is typical, bit it's definitely a fair comparison.

Mike gets in on the act as well. The really basic cowboy chords and he managed to outcheese Wisconsin with that solo.

I don't hate the song but let's not act like it's something it's not. I think a lot of people are afraid to admit they like something that is very power ballad ish and are trying to make more of it than it is.

I would find Sweet Child or some of Meatloaf's songs to be more of a power ballad than Sirens, but that is just my opinion. I have not problem thinking the song is good. I don't think it is great or one of their best. But I agree on people not owning up to liking some of the old power ballads over the last few decades. I also think it will come across different live than it does on the studio version.

RE4790 · September 2013

fortyshades wrote:

This is a comment that I keep hearing over and over again. I think that it is one of those words that stick and was first mentioned by the guy at alternative nation; from that moment onwards it had its own life. Comparisons to Black were made and 80's rock. When I think of powerballads however I think of Sweet Child of Mine, Every Rose has it Torns, Total Eclipse of the Heart and frankly every other Meatloaf song. And that is what Sirens is not. It has a guitar solo, but that is where every comparison stops...

Agreed. Love Boat Captain is closer to those tracks than Sirens is. Maybe, MAYBE, a Journey song would make a good comparison, but not frizzy hair metal anthems.

fortyshades wrote:

I first presumed the song was about the Greek Sirens, but in closer listen I believe that Sirens stands for Death/ Chaos in the face of love, life and growing older. In essence this is not even a love song, but a song about fragility.

Well, I took the "siren" to mean "warning sign" and not Homer's Sirens. When you hear an ambulance or air-raid siren it's not to show tragedy has occurred, it's to draw your attention to something dangerous (in this case the loss of what you love) or warn you that tragedy's impact is approaching you, and that fits this song pretty well. The song is about dealing with fear with love, more than about love itself.

DewieCox · September 2013

pjsteelerfan wrote:

DewieCox wrote:

Sweet Child o Mine and every Meatloaf I've ever heard are much less power ballad-y than Sirens.

Lyrically and melodically the singing is more nuanced than your typical hair band, but that's just because Ed is in a different class as a songwriter than most hair metal I've ever heard. It did surprise me lyrically after a few listens, b/c the bad lines really popped out at first, but there are still cheese goin on here.

Musically it follows a pretty similar structure to a lot of power ballads. Mellow verse>growing prechorus>bigger chorus>repeat>solo>big chorus that quiets as the song closes. The chorus isn't as big as is typical, bit it's definitely a fair comparison.

Mike gets in on the act as well. The really basic cowboy chords and he managed to outcheese Wisconsin with that solo.

I don't hate the song but let's not act like it's something it's not. I think a lot of people are afraid to admit they like something that is very power ballad ish and are trying to make more of it than it is.

I would find Sweet Child or some of Meatloaf's songs to be more of a power ballad than Sirens, but that is just my opinion. I have not problem thinking the song is good. I don't think it is great or one of their best. But I agree on people not owning up to liking some of the old power ballads over the last few decades. I also think it will come across different live than it does on the studio version.

I think Sweet Child is too upbeat to fall into the power ballad category. I think more along the lines of Heaven or Every Rose Has Its Thorn when I think power ballad.

I honestly can only think of one Meat Loaf song that could even come close in 2 Outta 3 Ain't Bad and to me power ballads are really a product of the late 80s.

october22 · September 2013

I'm always impressed at the lengths some people here will go to to convince themselves that even Pearl Jam's worst is somehow brilliant. That's not meant to offend anyone here. It's just an observation. Honestly, I wish I was like you sometimes. I wish this song didn't make me nauseous and embarrassed but it does. It is a total "powerballade" or whatever word you want to call it so long as that word is used in the pejorative. I don't believe for one second any of you would get even half way through this song if you heard it on the radio and didn't know who sang it. I think you're lying to yourselves, I really do.

facepollution · September 2013

october22 wrote:

I'm always impressed at the lengths some people here will go to to convince themselves that even Pearl Jam's worst is somehow brilliant. That's not meant to offend anyone here. It's just an observation. Honestly, I wish I was like you sometimes. I wish this song didn't make me nauseous and embarrassed but it does. It is a total "powerballade" or whatever word you want to call it so long as that word is used in the pejorative. I don't believe for one second any of you would get even half way through this song if you heard it on the radio and didn't know who sang it. I think you're lying to yourselves, I really do.

What utter bullshit. I liked it first time I heard it, I don't mind a certain pop music, and I'm a sucker for a great hook and an impressive vocal performance. I don't need to convince myself of anything - there are plenty of Pearl Jam songs I don't like, most of Riot Act bores me, for example (because it lacks hooks and strong vocal performances).

I think the progression of the song is different to most power ballads people are comparing it to, it doesn't dive into a massive chorus at the first opportunity, it builds up to it - if a band like Nickleback were to have made this, it would be about two minutes shorter, and they would have been at the chorus within about 30 seconds. I'm not denying PJ haven't taken elements of that kind of music, but it isn't anywhere near as formulaic in its design.

pjsteelerfan · September 2013

october22 wrote:

I'm always impressed at the lengths some people here will go to to convince themselves that even Pearl Jam's worst is somehow brilliant. That's not meant to offend anyone here. It's just an observation. Honestly, I wish I was like you sometimes. I wish this song didn't make me nauseous and embarrassed but it does. It is a total "powerballade" or whatever word you want to call it so long as that word is used in the pejorative. I don't believe for one second any of you would get even half way through this song if you heard it on the radio and didn't know who sang it. I think you're lying to yourselves, I really do.

So everyone is not allowed to have an opinion on the song? Or only your view of it is what counts?

october22 · September 2013

facepollution wrote:

october22 wrote:

I'm always impressed at the lengths some people here will go to to convince themselves that even Pearl Jam's worst is somehow brilliant. That's not meant to offend anyone here. It's just an observation. Honestly, I wish I was like you sometimes. I wish this song didn't make me nauseous and embarrassed but it does. It is a total "powerballade" or whatever word you want to call it so long as that word is used in the pejorative. I don't believe for one second any of you would get even half way through this song if you heard it on the radio and didn't know who sang it. I think you're lying to yourselves, I really do.

What utter bullshit. I liked it first time I heard it, I don't mind a certain pop music, and I'm a sucker for a great hook and an impressive vocal performance. I don't need to convince myself of anything - there are plenty of Pearl Jam songs I don't like, most of Riot Act bores me, for example (because it lacks hooks and strong vocal performances).

I think the progression of the song is different to most power ballads people are comparing it to, it doesn't dive into a massive chorus at the first opportunity, it builds up to it - if a band like Nickleback were to have made this, it would be about two minutes shorter, and they would have been at the chorus within about 30 seconds. I'm not denying PJ haven't taken elements of that kind of music, but it isn't anywhere near as formulaic in its design.

Cool. Happy you feel that way. I've heard a few other tracks and I think you're going to love this record. It's just not my cup of tea. Someone posted an interesting Mike quote in the comments section of the Sirens youtube video. This quote resonated with me much more than the song did and I've posted it below:

"I'm a Pearl Jam fan but this song is awful songwriting-wise...it reminds me of something Mike McCready said in the Single Video Theory documentary >>> Mike McCready: "I get afraid of losing that creative energy... where it's like 'where's it going to come from'... am I going to lose it someday... or will I have it for a while and then will it just run out because I've seen that happen to other bands." When I listen to "Sirens" all I can say is...'Yep Mike, I think you guys lost it.' "

For me, this sums up exactly how I feel about these new songs and BS. Again, I think it's great you and some others don't feel that way, but I'm pretty frustrated by it. I think this band could be so much better than this.

coco butter · September 2013

Mike gets in on the act as well. The really basic cowboy chords and he managed to outcheese Wisconsin with that solo.

I live in Wisconsin and nobody can out cheese Wisconsin! Nobody! Not even the great Mike McCready!

october22 · September 2013

pjsteelerfan wrote:

october22 wrote:

I'm always impressed at the lengths some people here will go to to convince themselves that even Pearl Jam's worst is somehow brilliant. That's not meant to offend anyone here. It's just an observation. Honestly, I wish I was like you sometimes. I wish this song didn't make me nauseous and embarrassed but it does. It is a total "powerballade" or whatever word you want to call it so long as that word is used in the pejorative. I don't believe for one second any of you would get even half way through this song if you heard it on the radio and didn't know who sang it. I think you're lying to yourselves, I really do.

So everyone is not allowed to have an opinion on the song? Or only your view of it is what counts?

Really? How did I dis-allow anyone from having an opinion? Is that even possible? Where did I say the views of others don't count?

I don't mind having a conversation or being criticized for my comments but you're giving me little to work with here.

pjsteelerfan · September 2013

october22 wrote:

pjsteelerfan wrote:

october22 wrote:

I'm always impressed at the lengths some people here will go to to convince themselves that even Pearl Jam's worst is somehow brilliant. That's not meant to offend anyone here. It's just an observation. Honestly, I wish I was like you sometimes. I wish this song didn't make me nauseous and embarrassed but it does. It is a total "powerballade" or whatever word you want to call it so long as that word is used in the pejorative. I don't believe for one second any of you would get even half way through this song if you heard it on the radio and didn't know who sang it. I think you're lying to yourselves, I really do.

So everyone is not allowed to have an opinion on the song? Or only your view of it is what counts?

Really? How did I dis-allow anyone from having an opinion? Is that even possible? Where did I say the views of others don't count?

I don't mind having a conversation or being criticized for my comments but you're giving me little to work with here.

I guess what I'm taking from your post is that you think that people who like the song are delusional, actively trying to convince themselves they like it just because it is PJ. Not sure how you can get that from something that is completely subjective. I find it to be a stretch. I just don't see how you can go after people for something like that.

hdogg151 · September 2013

Upon first listen, I had trouble even getting through the song. I just kept thinking "please, please, get better." So, I need to work up the energy to give the song another try. Upon coming here, "power ballad" seems to me a good approximation of the song-type, and likely the reason that some people are reacting so strongly negative to it (including me). However, most of us are sophisticated fans, and I doubt that I am the only one who will continue to give this song more chances. I can't tell you how many times I didn't like a PJ song at first because it wasn't "accessible" or made me uncomfortable in some way, only to LOVE the song later. Here's to hoping this song grows on me...

facepollution · September 2013

october22 wrote:

Cool. Happy you feel that way. I've heard a few other tracks and I think you're going to love this record. It's just not my cup of tea. Someone posted an interesting Mike quote in the comments section of the Sirens youtube video. This quote resonated with me much more than the song did and I've posted it below:

"I'm a Pearl Jam fan but this song is awful songwriting-wise...it reminds me of something Mike McCready said in the Single Video Theory documentary >>> Mike McCready: "I get afraid of losing that creative energy... where it's like 'where's it going to come from'... am I going to lose it someday... or will I have it for a while and then will it just run out because I've seen that happen to other bands." When I listen to "Sirens" all I can say is...'Yep Mike, I think you guys lost it.' "

For me, this sums up exactly how I feel about these new songs and BS. Again, I think it's great you and some others don't feel that way, but I'm pretty frustrated by it. I think this band could be so much better than this.

Well I'm sorry for your frustration, I'm sure they're not doing it on purpose!

I don't think Sirens lacks creativity at all though, it's the most complete sounding ballad they've made in a long long time. I found all the self-sabotage of previous releases in terms of strong melodies etc to be quite stale - and so do the band at this stage it seems.

pdalowsky · September 2013

facepollution wrote:

october22 wrote:

I'm always impressed at the lengths some people here will go to to convince themselves that even Pearl Jam's worst is somehow brilliant. That's not meant to offend anyone here. It's just an observation. Honestly, I wish I was like you sometimes. I wish this song didn't make me nauseous and embarrassed but it does. It is a total "powerballade" or whatever word you want to call it so long as that word is used in the pejorative. I don't believe for one second any of you would get even half way through this song if you heard it on the radio and didn't know who sang it. I think you're lying to yourselves, I really do.

What utter bullshit. I liked it first time I heard it, I don't mind a certain pop music, and I'm a sucker for a great hook and an impressive vocal performance. I don't need to convince myself of anything - there are plenty of Pearl Jam songs I don't like, most of Riot Act bores me, for example (because it lacks hooks and strong vocal performances).

.

bingo.....

its pretty insulting to suggest people like it are lying to themselves. also amusingly you Infer that people are willingly deluding themselves yet you don't wish to be offensive?

pdalowsky · September 2013

as for power ballad?

im not sure that really fits.....lets call it a song....

after all does it really need a label?

october22 · September 2013

pdalowsky wrote:

facepollution wrote:

october22 wrote:

I'm always impressed at the lengths some people here will go to to convince themselves that even Pearl Jam's worst is somehow brilliant. That's not meant to offend anyone here. It's just an observation. Honestly, I wish I was like you sometimes. I wish this song didn't make me nauseous and embarrassed but it does. It is a total "powerballade" or whatever word you want to call it so long as that word is used in the pejorative. I don't believe for one second any of you would get even half way through this song if you heard it on the radio and didn't know who sang it. I think you're lying to yourselves, I really do.

What utter bullshit. I liked it first time I heard it, I don't mind a certain pop music, and I'm a sucker for a great hook and an impressive vocal performance. I don't need to convince myself of anything - there are plenty of Pearl Jam songs I don't like, most of Riot Act bores me, for example (because it lacks hooks and strong vocal performances).

.

bingo.....

its pretty insulting to suggest people like it are lying to themselves. also amusingly you Infer that people are willingly deluding themselves yet you don't wish to be offensive?

Ok, fair enough. Maybe it is offensive but it's still what I believe. I think many of you who like this song only like it because Pearl Jam wrote it. I've seen plenty of people here over the years criticize Radiohead and their fans for the same damn thing. It's nothing new to suspect fanboy blindness and yes, that is what I think is happening here.

facepollution · September 2013

october22 wrote:

Ok, fair enough. Maybe it is offensive but it's still what I believe. I think many of you who like this song only like it because Pearl Jam wrote it. I've seen plenty of people here over the years criticize Radiohead and their fans for the same damn thing. It's nothing new to suspect fanboy blindness and yes, that is what I think is happening here.

And that's the only way someone could like this song?!

Sirens the Powerballade

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