Sirens the Powerballade

slightofjeff

october22 wrote:

Ok, fair enough. Maybe it is offensive but it's still what I believe. I think many of you who like this song only like it because Pearl Jam wrote it. I've seen plenty of people here over the years criticize Radiohead and their fans for the same damn thing. It's nothing new to suspect fanboy blindness and yes, that is what I think is happening here.

Gotta say, I'm absolutely shocked --- SHOCKED -- you don't like the song, based on every other post you've ever made here.

:roll:

guacamolejoe

Kind of strange that sweet child of mine is playing on my iPhone while I'm reading this thread.

What am I to think

Where do we go now :shifty:

No worries ........I'll ride the wave where it takes me... ...

ry75guy

It's what makes music funny though, huh? One person's comparison sounds completely different to another's ears. I had heard the Pink Floyd comparisons early on when they were working on the album. To me, this has that kind of vibe. Soaring guitar solo and vocals mixed with a calmer verse structure. Yeah it's ballad-esque, but to me it's more like a Floyd ballad. I don't think it necessarily sounds like Comfortably Numb or Learning To Fly, but they have the same vibe to me. Sidenote, after listening to it a few times last night and today, Sirens has been a total ear worm for me all morning.

october22

facepollution wrote:

october22 wrote:

Ok, fair enough. Maybe it is offensive but it's still what I believe. I think many of you who like this song only like it because Pearl Jam wrote it. I've seen plenty of people here over the years criticize Radiohead and their fans for the same damn thing. It's nothing new to suspect fanboy blindness and yes, that is what I think is happening here.

And that's the only way someone could like this song?!

Am I writing with some mysteriously confusing subtlety this morning?

I used the phrase "many of you who like this song."

I don't know if that clears it up for you but I'm tired of pissing people off this morning. Contrary to what many (note here again the word "many", not "all" or the dreaded "only") of you might think, I don't actually enjoy making enemies on here. I consider you guys my friends, or at least partners in this PJ journey, and I'm just expressing my opinions.

Anyway, whatever.

facepollution

october22 wrote:

Am I writing with some mysteriously confusing subtlety this morning?

I used the phrase "many of you who like this song."

I don't know if that clears it up for you but I'm tired of pissing people off this morning. Contrary to what many (note here again the word "many", not "all" or the dreaded "only") of you might think, I don't actually enjoy making enemies on here. I consider you guys my friends, or at least partners in this PJ journey, and I'm just expressing my opinions.

Anyway, whatever.

So how do you differentiate who genuinely likes it, and who fake likes it? I'd understand if this was a really challenging song, really difficult to get into, but this is a really catchy song, like it or not, and so it's appealing to a lot of people - thus your accusations don't really ring true. Why can't you just say you don't like it without accusing other people of being fan boys.

slightofjeff

facepollution wrote:

october22 wrote:

Am I writing with some mysteriously confusing subtlety this morning?

I used the phrase "many of you who like this song."

I don't know if that clears it up for you but I'm tired of pissing people off this morning. Contrary to what many (note here again the word "many", not "all" or the dreaded "only") of you might think, I don't actually enjoy making enemies on here. I consider you guys my friends, or at least partners in this PJ journey, and I'm just expressing my opinions.

Anyway, whatever.

So how do you differentiate who genuinely likes it, and who fake likes it? I'd understand if this was a really challenging song, really difficult to get into, but this is a really catchy song, like it or not, and so it's appealing to a lot of people - thus your accusations don't really ring true. Why can't you just say you don't like it without accusing other people of being fan boys.

Also, it's music. Why are we not allowed to be fan boys? Why are we not allowed to like a song for any damn reason we please? It's not like this is life or death. It's music. I can like the song because I like how Ed's butt wiggles when he sings it, so what? Does that make my experience any more real or fake than yours?

DriftingByTheStorm

Yeah.
I was actually thinking about the "power ballad" thing in my head this morning re-listening to the song (3rd listen now?) trying to frame my thoughts on "Sirens".

To me, and where the comparison to "power ballad" immediately stops is at the commercial angle. By that I mean, "power ballad" was something an otherwise "heavy" 80's band released to get mainstream appeal. In other words, I think the boys are making a somewhat calculated move to get air play and draw in the general population.

Thats where it stops though.
As far as the actual song structure, although it clearly is a ballad, it has a much more 2000's-Alt-Indie oddness to it. I do also get the Pink Floyd in the darkness, the production, and sonic layering.

I fucking love Matt's "doubled" vocals, as my complaint since the early days has been Ed's seeming refusal to "double" vocals like so many great bands do (seemingly on the grounds of not being replicable live) ... and it's nice for Matt to be showcased on record doing for Eddie what he would never do for himself.

It does come as a sonic departure to me, and it does strike me a bit ackward. The initial repetition of "sirens" seems a bit clumsy, but who am I to judge the almighty. I will say I think that "power ballad" or not i think it was (despite what so many here feel) a SMART move on the bands part.

LETS BE HONEST: rock and roll has been pretty pussified. My impression of post 2000 rock has been that, saving a few exceptions, almost all of the "great new bands" that people come to me with sound overwhelming post-emo post-radiohead post-laterday-flaming lips inspired WUSS ROCK or, being kind to a band like My Morning Jacket, "overly-ethereal-laid-back-post-southern-rock-alt-indie music". I think "Sirens" is sort of a Pearl Jam Trojan Horse to get in to the skulls of these little kiddies and their little wussie rock brains. It also may very well simply be the honest product of a significantly matured band.
?

Kat

slightofjeff wrote:

I also think there are a whole lot of people on this board (and, in the world, I guess) who hear the word "love" in a song and automatically assume it's a "cheesy love song."

Sirens is not a love song. At least, not totally.

I'm enjoying your thoughtful song interpretation(s) and I'm glad you did it in the Words & Music forum too. We used to do that in the old PJ forum on AOL...one of my favorite things to do. Just wanted to tell you...and everyone else who is really looking and listening. Thank you.

DriftingByTheStorm

i have to disagree with ya there, jeff.
it's pretty clearly a love song.


thats like saying Black isn't a love song because it talks about kids playing.


i will give you that it is about insecurity and love. the insecurity of love. insecurity of life. insecurity in a criminal world. but mostly. it's about love.

Sirens:Not A Love Song? wrote:

Every choice, mistake I made, is not my plan
To send you in the arms of another man
And if you choose to stay, I’ll wait, I’ll understand

dimitrispearljam

the whole problem with people is that need to put labels..
so,talking about Powerballade their mind goes to other pop or whatever bands and they think their pearl jam isnt "cool" by having this song in their catalogue..

things are simple..

i dont give a flying fuck what "type of song you can call Sirens..

the song ,the lyrics and the music is a masterpiece IMO and most of all,talks to my fuckin soul...

and i dont need anything more than that..thats the limit for me..the song to talks to my soul..

and you know whats the 2 most common words the last 2 days i see people who like the song saying here and at facebook about Sirens?

1."i love it"..no like it..or i dig it,its cool,..etc..BUT "I LOVE IT"
2."its Beautiful"...

klusterfuk

dimitrispearljam wrote:

the whole problem with people is that need to put labels..
so,talking about Powerballade their mind goes to other pop or whatever bands and they think their pearl jam isnt "cool" by having this song in their catalogue..

things are simple..

i dont give a flying fuck what "type of song you can call Sirens..

the song ,the lyrics and the music is a masterpiece IMO and most of all,talks to my fuckin soul...

and i dont need anything more than that..thats the limit for me..the song to talks to my soul..

and you know whats the 2 most common words the last 2 days i see people who like the song saying here and at facebook about Sirens?

1."i love it"..no like it..or i dig it,its cool,..etc..BUT "I LOVE IT"
2."its Beautiful"...

I gotta agree with ya there Dimi.

dimitrispearljam

and something last..

other bands ..that have Powerballads in their catalogue..and people compare with them..

.they missing something..


Eddie fuckin Vedder and Mike God McCready...

cos those 2 guys,when this song will be played live,will prove you wrong how brilliant is this song..

musically and lyrically the song is Brilliant..

"CHEESE SONG"????


bring my Feta or Gouda any day bitch!!!

Its Evolution Baby

Comeback was way more of a Power Ballad than Sirens IMO. What I think throws people off with Sirens is that it's fairly modern sounding, in it's production and it's country like acoustic guitar and piano keys. It's a sound Pearl Jam has never used before.

Having said that I really really love this song. The first time I heard it I didn't like the first half of the song as much as I loved the second half of the song, but by listen 4 I was all in on this song. It's really moving for both loves had and loves lost. It's a song that many people can relate to.

Lastly I remember when Metallica came out with Nothing Else Matters and Metallica fans everywhere cried they were now cheesy 80's groups. Now that is one of there most popular songs amongst fans and non fans alike. Departures in sound take time but if the song is good enough (and I think Sirens is) most fans will come around.

dimitrispearljam

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

It's really moving for both loves had and loves lost.

i think this comment says it all..thank you for that..

fortyshades

october22 wrote:

I'm always impressed at the lengths some people here will go to to convince themselves that even Pearl Jam's worst is somehow brilliant. That's not meant to offend anyone here. It's just an observation. Honestly, I wish I was like you sometimes. I wish this song didn't make me nauseous and embarrassed but it does. It is a total "powerballade" or whatever word you want to call it so long as that word is used in the pejorative. I don't believe for one second any of you would get even half way through this song if you heard it on the radio and didn't know who sang it. I think you're lying to yourselves, I really do.

Actually this is, maybe unintended, quite insulting. It works from the premises that the people who like the song are delusional and people who don't are "objective". Whatever the hell that means. Let me post this hypothethical question, that I also posted somewhere else: Why is it that we need to defend ourselves if we like a song, but not liking a song is equated by not being blindsided? Isn't this a very interesting circular argument?

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Yeah.
I was actually thinking about the "power ballad" thing in my head this morning re-listening to the song (3rd listen now?) trying to frame my thoughts on "Sirens".

To me, and where the comparison to "power ballad" immediately stops is at the commercial angle. By that I mean, "power ballad" was something an otherwise "heavy" 80's band released to get mainstream appeal. In other words, I think the boys are making a somewhat calculated move to get air play and draw in the general population.

Thats where it stops though.
As far as the actual song structure, although it clearly is a ballad, it has a much more 2000's-Alt-Indie oddness to it. I do also get the Pink Floyd in the darkness, the production, and sonic layering.

I agree. Poweballads were known for their strong "choruses" which this song in structure is lacking. The song is more subdued and subtle than that. You have really have to dig and take it in to grasp the meaning. I am not sure if PJ aimed for commercial success with this, or that some critic created this label that somehow stucked. (Just like "cheese".) Either way this is not - because of its subtelty, and the way the song is mostly carried by the vocal melody and line - a "typical" top 40 rock song. It doesn't even have the build up that some PJ songs have, that may be categorized with this label. ATW is more powerballad than this.

That said, I agree with Dimitris. Labels don't mean a thing. But the truth this, that song is being picked apart, scrutinized because of it so-called commercial appeal.

Regarding the theme of the song I agree with slightofJeff:

Kat wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

I also think there are a whole lot of people on this board (and, in the world, I guess) who hear the word "love" in a song and automatically assume it's a "cheesy love song."

Sirens is not a love song. At least, not totally.

This more than just a simple love song. It is about love in the face of chaos, death and catastrophy and therefore more about the fragility of love than love itself. In this sense I start to see a common theme on the songs we heard; the theme of self-realization. (Maybe this is why MYM was the first single?)

In short; this starts to become an album, just like Vitalogy,Yield, Binaural and No Code, where an overarching theme is present.

pjhawks

we had angry Ed (1990s)
then political Ed (2000s)
and now introspective about love and life Ed...and in all 3 iterations the man fucking nails it.

label it whatever you like, but I dig it.

elvistheking44

Sirens is not a power ballad, its a mediocre song from a band that once was the greatest, most mysterious, innovative band around......

These are true power ballads, and Sirens can't hold a candle to any of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcEu47mR43U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T1IVyXBGjM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbRfYDP5P28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2r2nDhTzO4

fortyshades

pjhawks wrote:

we had angry Ed (1990s)
then political Ed (2000s)
and now introspective about love and life Ed...and in all 3 iterations the man fucking nails it.

label it whatever you like, but I dig it.

Hahahahha, I think I'm Open, Immortality, Sometimes, Sleight of Hand, Parting Ways are all pretty introspective however...

fortyshades

ofthegirl99 wrote:

Sirens is not a power ballad, its a mediocre song from a band that once was the greatest, most mysterious, innovative band around......

These are true power ballads, and Sirens can't hold a candle to any of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcEu47mR43U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T1IVyXBGjM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbRfYDP5P28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2r2nDhTzO4

I love sarcasm...

elvistheking44

fortyshades wrote:

ofthegirl99 wrote:

Sirens is not a power ballad, its a mediocre song from a band that once was the greatest, most mysterious, innovative band around......

These are true power ballads, and Sirens can't hold a candle to any of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcEu47mR43U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T1IVyXBGjM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbRfYDP5P28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2r2nDhTzO4

I love sarcasm...

Afraid not......