Take Responsibility

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Well look at it another way - if a guy undid his shirt a couple of buttons would have been kicked out? As someone who lives in a place where it is discriminatory to make women being topless in public, I think it's the same issue here. If anyone else was showing the same area of their body as this girl was (and we know they were) then this is discriminatory. (Not to say that the girl looked good, because clearly that dress looked terrible on her - that isn't the point). Simply, any rule that specifically bans cleavage is. If they didn't want to be discriminatory, they should have said in the dress code that necklines had to be a maximum of 6 inches from the neck or something like that.

seriously. seriously. comparing a guy's chest with a woman's. seriously. it's a HIGH SCHOOL with TEENAGERS, not a folk festival.

the girls has a lot of cleavage. and showing it off is against the dress code. how is that discriminatory? if I was wearing skin tight bike shorts to school, they probably wouldn't complain. but if one of my, heh hem, overly blessed friends were wearing the same thing, the librarian would have fainted. discriminatory? NOPE. it's called dressing appropriately for your body type.

Seriously, seriously. It is LAW that men and women's chests are comparable where I live, and if anyone is interested in complete equality, that is how it must be for equality to exist. Our courts have figured that out, and others will have to follow eventually. So I am not sure why find it so hard to comprehend or why you are talking about folk festivals.
Making rules that are subject to having a particular body type and not others is pretty much the definition of discrimination. Now I can't believe that you're not understanding that. What you're saying is like making a rule that skinny girls can wear skirts that stop 3 inches above the knee, but fat girls have to wear them 3 inches below the knee, because shorter skirts aren't appropriate for their body type. That is discriminatory. You are thinking like a fashion consultant or the high school modesty police, when I think one should be looking at this issue like a lawyer.

Also, I am really sick of the onus being on women to dress in a way that guys can "handle". That's the same kind of thinking that brought around the existence of bhurkas for crying out loud. Breasts are actually for feeding babies, and I think the idea that cleavage is considered inappropriate or objectionable is offensive. If men get turned on or distracted by some cleavage that's their problem. The responsibility should not be layed on women with cleavage. You're talking as though we're discussing a girl who showed up with her nipples poking through two holes she cut in her dress. It's just cleavage. Again, if they seriously don't want it, then the rule should be no neck lines more than 5 inches from the neck. Singling put those with cleavage is discriminatory.

Also, I can't believe you could think that your spandex scenario is reasonable. If one guy can wear them, then all guys can, no matter what their penis size is. Anything else would also be discriminatory (and honeatly, a guy with a tiny penis in bike shorts is much more objectionable that a guy with a large penia in bike shorts IMHO, har har har ).

I don't think this really is about big tits, body type, penii in spandex...

It's about - least from what I've read - agreeing to abide by certain guidelines.

Not meant to sound harsh, but if one can't abide by them? Then don't agree to them.

Simple as that.

(this, too, from a chick with perhaps not-huge-boobs, but noticable ones. I didn't do my prom thing but if I did? Would deal with it)

JonnyPistachio wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Signed,
A woman with huge boobs and necessarily more cleavage than most of my counterparts while wearing normal clothes.

Well hello there.

:wave:

aerial wrote:

hedonist wrote:

I don't think this really is about big tits, body type, penii in spandex...

It's about - least from what I've read - agreeing to abide by certain guidelines.

Not meant to sound harsh, but if one can't abide by them? Then don't agree to them.

Simple as that.

(this, too, from a chick with perhaps not-huge-boobs, but noticable ones. I didn't do my prom thing but if I did? Would deal with it)

Huge boobs compared to noticeable ones are apples and cantaloupes.... a life of carrying around two cantaloupes on your chest is not much fun............ someone suggested altering the dress but that doesn't work...how can you alter something when the fabric is not there to alter?.....
P. J. is right it is very hard to find tops or dresses that cover up the whole boob when you are as large as she is...I agree it is a form of discrimination.....and boys NEED to learn to control themselves.....and act like gentlemen...

Cosmo wrote:

hedonist wrote:

I don't think this really is about big tits, body type, penii in spandex...

It's about - least from what I've read - agreeing to abide by certain guidelines.

Not meant to sound harsh, but if one can't abide by them? Then don't agree to them.

Simple as that.

(this, too, from a chick with perhaps not-huge-boobs, but noticable ones. I didn't do my prom thing but if I did? Would deal with it)

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That is the bottom line... the dress code was in place before the Prom.
The girls was not turned away from entry to the Prom.
The Prom staff assisted the girl in compliance with the dress code.
The girl was allowed into the Prom.
She stayed at the Prom of an hour.
She DECIDED to leave the Prom... she was not ejected from it.
...
She wants an apology for HER reaction... for HER decision to leave.
Her parents are fucking assholes and should take on the role as parents and welcome her to life.... with the rest of us by telling her that the Dress Code was being enforced and she is not above the rules... for whatever excuse she comes up with.

But again, all of that is totally besides the point. I personally don't give a flying fuck about whether or not this chick enjoyed her prom or whether or not she disobeyed the dress code. It's the rule - the dress code itself - and the attitude behind that particular rule that bother me.

Cosmo wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

...
That is the bottom line... the dress code was in place before the Prom.
The girls was not turned away from entry to the Prom.
The Prom staff assisted the girl in compliance with the dress code.
The girl was allowed into the Prom.
She stayed at the Prom of an hour.
She DECIDED to leave the Prom... she was not ejected from it.
...
She wants an apology for HER reaction... for HER decision to leave.
Her parents are fucking assholes and should take on the role as parents and welcome her to life.... with the rest of us by telling her that the Dress Code was being enforced and she is not above the rules... for whatever excuse she comes up with.

But again, all of that is totally besides the point. I personally don't give a flying fuck about whether or not this chick enjoyed her prom or whether or not she disobeyed the dress code. It's the rule - the dress code itself - and the attitude behind that particular rule that bother me.

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Again... I don't know the whole history of this thing... i don't know if the rule was in place in the 1950s or if they were enacted this year because some hoochie mammas showed up last year wearing tube tops as dresses.
I don't think it singles out large breasted girls, rather, ALL girls. If ANY girl, regardless of bust size, shows up with the following combination: sleeveless AND cleavage... she will be told to cover up. She had choices... a sleeved dress showing some cleavage... or a sleeveless dress showing no clevage. She CHOSE the combination of Sleeveless AND Cleavage.
The only way we can really understand this is to find out exactly WHY this dress code requirement is in place.
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Also, i wonder if there is a dress code stipulation that the boys belt must be at the waist, not around the thighs. We would all know why/how that got into the dress code.

No, but many girls don't have cleavage. or if they do, there may be very little of it, and therefore can wear much lower necklines and not be showing cleavage. That's the whole point. They could wear a top that is 2 inches above their nipples and not be showing cleavage. Whereas the girls with bigger breasts - and therefore with cleavage - would be held to a different standard of clothing solely because of how their bodies are built. Therein lies the problem. Cleavage is what girls with big boobs have, and unless they pretty much wear mock turtle necks, they can't hide it. It should not be a part of the body that is made into a shameful, obscene thing. It should absolutely not be something specifically banned in a dress code.

PJ_Soul wrote:

No, but many girls don't have cleavage. or if they do, there may be very little of it, and therefore can wear much lower necklines and not be showing cleavage. That's the whole point. They could wear a top that is 2 inches above their nipples and not be showing cleavage. Whereas the girls with bigger breasts - and therefore with cleavage - would be held to a different standard of clothing solely because of how their bodies are built. Therein lies the problem. Cleavage is what girls with big boobs have, and unless they pretty much wear mock turtle necks, they can't hide it. It should not be a part of the body that is made into a shameful, obscene thing. It should absolutely not be something specifically banned in a dress code.

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The fact that small breasted women do not have cleavage does not matter. The only difference is they can wear a sleeveless dress and get away with it simply because they have no cleavage. Is that fair? I think so. I doesn't mean they can wear anything to the Prom... like, no pasties or electrical tape across their nipples. They must also follow the same dress code.
To me, it's like saying the speed limit is discriminatory against a Ferrari. Because a 1962 VW Bus cannot go 162 MPH, why should the Ferrari have to drive 65 MPH to appease the VW? The rules are in place for whatever reason and until it is changed, people have to comply or face the consequences of disobeying them.

Cosmo wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

No, but many girls don't have cleavage. or if they do, there may be very little of it, and therefore can wear much lower necklines and not be showing cleavage. That's the whole point. They could wear a top that is 2 inches above their nipples and not be showing cleavage. Whereas the girls with bigger breasts - and therefore with cleavage - would be held to a different standard of clothing solely because of how their bodies are built. Therein lies the problem. Cleavage is what girls with big boobs have, and unless they pretty much wear mock turtle necks, they can't hide it. It should not be a part of the body that is made into a shameful, obscene thing. It should absolutely not be something specifically banned in a dress code.

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The fact that small breasted women do not have cleavage does not matter. The only difference is they can wear a sleeveless dress and get away with it simply because they have no cleavage. Is that fair? I think so. I doesn't mean they can wear anything to the Prom... like, no pasties or electrical tape across their nipples. They must also follow the same dress code.
To me, it's like saying the speed limit is discriminatory against a Ferrari. Because a 1962 VW Bus cannot go 162 MPH, why should the Ferrari have to drive 65 MPH to appease the VW? The rules are in place for whatever reason and until it is changed, people have to comply or face the consequences of disobeying them.

Those are cars, and speed limits are for the physical safety of people. This is nothing like your comparison.
And no, it's not fair if some people can wear sleeveless top and other can't because their bodies are different. No. That's not okay. But anyway, we have definitely both said everything we can say on the matter, and never the twain shall meet.

PJ_Soul wrote:

Those are cars, and speed limits are for the physical safety of people. This is nothing like your comparison.
And no, it's not fair if some people can wear sleeveless top and other can't because their bodies are different. No. That's not okay. But anyway, we have definitely both said everything we can say on the matter, and never the twain shall meet.

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The point is rules are rules. Ferraris and VW Busses are both cars with different capabilities. A VW Bus cannot reach the speeds of a Ferrari, even if it were pushed out on an airplane.
The large breasted girl and the small breasted girl are both girls. A small breasted girl couldn't show cleavage, even if she wanted to. She is still a girl and even if she has no breasts at all... she STILL is required to wear a top. Is that unfair? No, it is just the way things are for her.
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This girl... no, actually, HER PARENTS need to teach her that you cannot do whatever you want... just because you want to. Welcome to the Human Race... we live in a society that has rules we need to abide because we don't get to make the rules to fit our wants.
Her parents should know that the rules are in place and she needs to follow them if she wishes to participate in this part of society.
Or... her and her parents can pay to have their own prom and make whatever rules they want... and anyone going to their prom has to abide bytheir rules.

PJ_Soul wrote:

Rules are made to be broken.

No, but seriously, when a rule is stupid or unfair or discriminatory, I think it's important for people to fight against that rule, not bow down before it.

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If it is THAT important to her, then she should take it up. They can hire a lawyer and sue the school... and when they lose, they should have to pay court costs and the school's legal bills.
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Personally, I think she is acting like a spoiled little shit. She can still wear that dress out to a formal dinner or a wedding or to church or whatever else y'all wear those dresses to. The dress isn't against the law... she is still free to wear it where ever she wants. She is trying to make it a bigger deal than it is.
And her parents... i think they are acting like assholes.