Should Pearl Jam Play in Israel?

Byrnzie · May 2013

dimitrispearljam wrote:

buddy,ill make it simple for you..
i know a girl from israel...she is very pretty ..
no matter what goverment they have there,...she is still pretty..
no matter if she vote for that goverment..she is still pretty...
same as the fans...no matter what goverment vote or not they deserve as fans to see the band..
they are fans of the band when they go to see the concert..
no black,or white,no tall or short,no muslim or jewish,no boys or girls..
they are fans...as fans they must have the right to see the band...
with the same logic of yours ,none of us should be a fan of pearl jam,cos pearl jam is an american band,and america is a country that support and is allies with israel..

If you'd known a pretty girl who lived in Apartheid South Africa, would you have therefore been o.k with your favourite band playing there too? Or would you have been pleased to know that your favourite band held principles that caused them to refuse to play in an oppressive racist state?

Those Pearl Jam fans over there in Israel should be pissed off. Them, and fans of many other bands who refuse to play in their country. Maybe if enough fans of music, and the other arts, in that country get pissed off enough that their governments policies are having the effect of isolating them on the World stage, then maybe it will help to change the situation over there, just as it had a huge impact on changing the situation in South Africa.

Maybe one day in the future, people will look back at the situation in Israel/Palestine in the same way we now look back at Apartheid South Africa. The U.S government supported Apartheid South Africa the same as they now support Apartheid Israel, but that doesn't mean anyone else has to.

What will you say many years down the road - asuming Israel ceases it's crimes against the Palestinians - when someone asks you where you stood on the issue? You'll tell them you had no beef with that regime over there, and thought that country should be regarded as no different from any other?

At least I know I'll be able to hold my head high.

dimitrispearljam · May 2013

Byrnzie wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

buddy,ill make it simple for you..
i know a girl from israel...she is very pretty ..
no matter what goverment they have there,...she is still pretty..
no matter if she vote for that goverment..she is still pretty...
same as the fans...no matter what goverment vote or not they deserve as fans to see the band..
they are fans of the band when they go to see the concert..
no black,or white,no tall or short,no muslim or jewish,no boys or girls..
they are fans...as fans they must have the right to see the band...
with the same logic of yours ,none of us should be a fan of pearl jam,cos pearl jam is an american band,and america is a country that support and is allies with israel..

If you'd known a pretty girl who lived in Apartheid South Africa, would you have therefore been o.k with your favourite band playing there too? Or would you have been pleased to know that your favourite band held principles that caused them to refuse to play in an oppressive racist state?

Those Pearl Jam fans over should be pissed off. Them, and fans of many other bands who refuse to play in their country. Maybe if enough fans of music, and the other arts, in that country get pissed off enough that their governments policies are having the effect of isolating them on the World stage, then maybe it will help to change the situation over there, just as it had a huge impact on changing the situation in South Africa.

Maybe one day in the future, people will look back at the situation in Israel/Palestine in the same way we now look back at Apartheid South Africa. The U.S government supported Apartheid South Africa the same as they now support Apartheid Israel, but that doesn't mean anyone else has to.

What will you say many years down the road - asuming Israel ceases it's crimes against the Palestinians - when someone asks you where you stood on the issue? You'll tell them you had no beef with that regime over there, and thought that country should be regarded as no different from any other?

At least I know I'll be able to hold my head high.

good for you,i understand how you see things,
i understand your feelings to israel,or what you think is bad in the world,but i disagree that pj fans from Israel must pay the price of not see the band in their country cos what their goverment does..
there is no bad or good fans..all are the same to my eyes..
its wrong to see israelian fans different than other fans..
as for where everyone stood in the Israelian/Palestaine issue,is different topic,and conversation..
the topic is if a rock band should play there..
my answer is yes..and it is yes for all the countries of this planet..
a similar way you feel for Israel,i feel for Albania and Fyrom,but that has nothing to do with pj fans of those 2 countries,and ill support their request to see pearl jam at their country,even i dislike both countries for personal and "Greek" reasons.

PhillyCrownOfThorns · May 2013

."[/quote]
buddy,ill make it simple for you..
i know a girl from israel...she is very pretty ..
no matter what goverment they have there,...she is still pretty..
no matter if she vote for that goverment..she is still pretty...
same as the fans...no matter what goverment vote or not they deserve as fans to see the band..
they are fans of the band when they go to see the concert..
no black,or white,no tall or short,no muslim or jewish,no boys or girls..
they are fans...as fans they must have the right to see the band...
with the same logic of yours ,none of us should be a fan of pearl jam,cos pearl jam is an american band,and america is a country that support and is allies with israel..[/quote]

Does this logic work if she was ugly?

dimitrispearljam · May 2013

PhillyCrownOfThorns wrote:

.
Does this logic work if she was ugly?

i dont have a clue,i know only pretrty girls

catefrances · May 2013

dimitrispearljam wrote:

absofuckilutely YES..

the fans at Israel deserve to see their favo band at their country..no question about that..
isnt their fault if their goverment is good or not
+that boycott conversation is just bullshit
if pj or any other band want or said they boycott the bad goverments-countries of the world ,like Israel is,,or whatever,,
well,then,need to stop accepting taking money from fan club memebership from people of those countries,and stop selling their music and merch and taking money from fans of those countries...
so its really fake for me,selling stuff and making business with those type of countries that you suppose you boycott and then play it rebels,and say dont play shows their cos of the poltical situation.

change NEVER comes from the rop.. it always comes from the people therefore of the people want change then they themselves should take steps to enact it. if the people of Israel want to see 'their fave band' then they need to put pressure upon their govt so they have that opportunity... so that everyone who wishes to see a particular band in.. oh I dunno.. jesusalem.. has the opportunity to do so. I can travel to jerisalem to see pearl jam id I so desire... you dimitri have the opportunity to travel to jerusalam to see pearl jam is you so desire... shouldnt EVERY palestinian as wel as every isreali also have the same opportunity? can you guarantee that they do? I know yosi has pointed out that the west bank and gaza are not Israel.. but isn't that the point of the argument?

dimitrispearljam · May 2013

catefrances wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

absofuckilutely YES..

the fans at Israel deserve to see their favo band at their country..no question about that..
isnt their fault if their goverment is good or not
+that boycott conversation is just bullshit
if pj or any other band want or said they boycott the bad goverments-countries of the world ,like Israel is,,or whatever,,
well,then,need to stop accepting taking money from fan club memebership from people of those countries,and stop selling their music and merch and taking money from fans of those countries...
so its really fake for me,selling stuff and making business with those type of countries that you suppose you boycott and then play it rebels,and say dont play shows their cos of the poltical situation.

change NEVER comes from the rop.. it always comes from the people therefore of the people want change then they themselves should take steps to enact it. if the people of Israel want to see 'their fave band' then they need to put pressure upon their govt so they have that opportunity... so that everyone who wishes to see a particular band in.. oh I dunno.. jesusalem.. has the opportunity to do so. I can travel to jerisalem to see pearl jam id I so desire... you dimitri have the opportunity to travel to jerusalam to see pearl jam is you so desire... shouldnt EVERY palestinian as wel as every isreali also have the same opportunity? can you guarantee that they do? I know yosi has pointed out that the west bank and gaza are not Israel.. but isn't that the point of the argument?

i get that Cate..
im trying to say dont mix the fans with what their goverment doing..isnt fair they pay the price..
as for me,i cant quarantee anything..
do you have any idea what i pass to get my usa at 2008??
they question me like was a criminal in 3 different appoitments..there is no such thing as freedom in the world..
freedom??who is free nowdays??with cameras at every corner??
when all our infos are in a computer??/
and i never saw this band to say we dont play at Israel,or anywhere else cos of the goverment there..
if Israel was in the map at north europe,i believe they would play 20 times already..
its music,it sould be deliver the message of peace,to unite people..
one more reason to play to Israel...
fans dont deserve to pay the price cos they was born as israelian and alot people hate them..
if its fair to hate them?to hate israel??/thats another story...but when it comes to fans,i support everyone want to see the band in their country..no matter the color of their skin,their political opinion,which country they coming from,to who God they believe,what kind of sex partner they prefer ,etc..
thats my opinion,i

polaris_x · May 2013

dmitris,

let's put it another way ...

what if by NOT playing in Israel - PJ can enact change ... a change that would end the suffering of millions of people? ... is it not worth it then? ... that's the whole idea of a boycott ... to enact change ...

dimitrispearljam · May 2013

polaris_x wrote:

dmitris,

let's put it another way ...

what if by NOT playing in Israel - PJ can enact change ... a change that would end the suffering of millions of people? ... is it not worth it then? ... that's the whole idea of a boycott ... to enact change ...

got it,ofcourse worth it..and i agree..
but they should stop taking money for membership from israelians,selling records and t-shirt there..
and let everyone know we dont play there for that and this reasons..
by not playing there,and let us assume they do it for political reasons,but the same time they doing business with israelians via their record company,or web store,doesnt make it boycott at all for me...
and this goes to every artist that claim he "boycott israel" while he promote and selling records and merch at israel

PhillyCrownOfThorns · May 2013

dimitrispearljam wrote:

PhillyCrownOfThorns wrote:

.
Does this logic work if she was ugly?

i dont have a clue,i know only pretrty girls

polaris_x · May 2013

dimitrispearljam wrote:

got it,ofcourse worth it..and i agree..
but they should stop taking money for membership from israelians,selling records and t-shirt there..
and let everyone know we dont play there for that and this reasons..
by not playing there,and let us assume they do it for political reasons,but the same time they doing business with israelians via their record company,or web store,doesnt make it boycott at all for me...
and this goes to every artist that claim he "boycott israel" while he promote and selling records and merch at israel

but that's a bit silly ... i don't think pearl jam has ever promised to play there ... heck ... you can live in parts of canada and it would cost more to see Pearl Jam than if you lived in israel and traveled to say greece ...

by not accepting their money - you're actually depriving them of their music ... that seems absurd ... i think israelis understand that the likelihood of PJ playing there is slim for whatever reason - they can choose not to support the band or support them ...

dimitrispearljam · May 2013

polaris_x wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

got it,ofcourse worth it..and i agree..
but they should stop taking money for membership from israelians,selling records and t-shirt there..
and let everyone know we dont play there for that and this reasons..
by not playing there,and let us assume they do it for political reasons,but the same time they doing business with israelians via their record company,or web store,doesnt make it boycott at all for me...
and this goes to every artist that claim he "boycott israel" while he promote and selling records and merch at israel

but that's a bit silly ... i don't think pearl jam has ever promised to play there ... heck ... you can live in parts of canada and it would cost more to see Pearl Jam than if you lived in israel and traveled to say greece ...

by not accepting their money - you're actually depriving them of their music ... that seems absurd ... i think israelis understand that the likelihood of PJ playing there is slim for whatever reason - they can choose not to support the band or support them ...

thats the trick...they never promised to play there...same time they never said we will not play there..
so keep that open,make people think whatever they want..
if they boycott israel,for me they need to say it open...and put out the reasons too..
so,selling their music and merch at israel, ,but not doing a show(which again i believe has to do with where is israel at the map and not for political reasons, )isnt boycott for me..
and fans from israel has the right toi dream and request a show there..

mcgruff10 · May 2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v-ShaFpiVE

enough said. play i say!

pjambama · May 2013

Byrnzie wrote:

foodboy wrote:

yes please give up your membership. i think you are racist. yes lets just remove all borders and boundries and maybe in your naive way of socialist thinking it will all work out just the way you think. but unfortunately it will not. will you be coming to the aid of israelis as you speak now as their enemies try to wipe them off the face of the earth. i think not. israel would like nothing more than to have peace. you don't live in their shoes and you probably think their were no concentration camps either. it is a very very complex issue. how can you expect your enemies of a few thousand years to all of a sudden just say let bygones be bygones.these problems were not started with land grabs.

Firstly, you think I'm racist because I oppose the Illegal occupation - an occupation opposed by the entire World, excluding Israel and the U.S?
Do you support the occupation? If so, then it's you are the racist.

Secondly, look at this map and tell me how the Palestinians have tried wiping Israel off the face of the Earth?

You're simply trying to turn reality on it's head. You wouldn't be a fan of Aice in Wonderland would you?

Lastly, the Jews and Arabs in historical Palestine lived in peace together for over a thousand years before the Zionists moved in and began ethnically cleansing the place.

First of all I have no problem with Pearl Jam playing in Israel. The grateful dead played in egypt back in the early 70's. If Pearl Jam wants to play there and it was safe and secure I say go for it. Also would you be opposed to Pearl Jam playing there if they did a free concert and invited say 10-15 year old israeli's and palestinians for free and it was 50-50 split of israeli and palestinian kids?

Second it takes two to fight so I am sure there have been SINNERS on both sides. This goes way past 1946. See David vs Goliath. It takes a greater person or society to admit there have been mistakes and to find a way to work things out. There is no way that old people that have been fighting for a generation will find peace. peace will only come from the youth in the middle east who have sense and that have not been brainwashed

Finally, Israel has attempted peace agreements with the US and Russia participating. but it takes having a true partner in order to reach a peace deal and it will not come from the current generation. Peace will only come from the youth. Unfortunately Palestinians only had a terrorist turned politician try to act like he wanted peace. Yassar Arafat wanted no peace. he was a terrorist since the late 60's early 70's who hijacked planes and left jordan for tunisia after causing chaos in jordan and I have no sympathy for terrorist. My cousin just dealt with Terrorist at the Boston Marathon. The Palestinian may have a gov't but a terrorist organization is running the show

see Bill Clinton's video below- comments and every other president that has tried to bring peace deals whether clinton or bush or any other president. it never happened mainly for one reason.Yassar Arafat... both sides will have to make sacrifices if they ever want peace. We will all most likely be dead before that ever happens

http://youtu.be/FpOCOIcIo30

Byrnzie · May 2013

pjambama wrote:

First of all I have no problem with Pearl Jam playing in Israel. The grateful dead played in egypt back in the early 70's.

Second it takes two to fight so I am sure there have been SINNERS on both sides. This goes way past 1946. See David vs Goliath. It takes a greater person or society to admit there have been mistakes and to find a way to work things out. There is no way that old people that have been fighting for a generation will find peace. peace will only come from the youth in the middle east who have sense and that have not been brainwashed

Firstly, what does The grateful dead playing in Egypt in the '70's have to do with anything?
Secondly, the occupation is not a two-way street. One side - Israel - is occupying the land of another, stealing more and more of that land by building illegal settlements on it, and evicting the Palestinians. This is known as ethnic cleansing.

pjambama wrote:

Finally, Israel has attempted peace agreements with the US and Russia participating. but it takes having a true partner in order to reach a peace deal and it will not come from the current generation. Peace will only come from the youth. Unfortunately Palestinians only had a terrorist turned politician try to act like he wanted peace. Yassar Arafat wanted no peace. he was a terrorist since the late 60's early 70's who hijacked planes and left jordan for tunisia after causing chaos in jordan and I have no sympathy for terrorist. My cousin just dealt with Terrorist at the Boston Marathon. The Palestinian may have a gov't but a terrorist organization is running the show

see Bill Clinton's video below- comments and every other president that has tried to bring peace deals whether clinton or bush or any other president. it never happened mainly for one reason.Yassar Arafat... both sides will have to make sacrifices if they ever want peace. We will all most likely be dead before that ever happens

http://youtu.be/FpOCOIcIo30

What peace deal are you referring to here? The Oslo accords? You say the peace deal never happened 'mainly for one reason - Yasser Arafat'. Where did you get this misinformation from?

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-sieg ... ocess-scam
'...The problem is not, as Israelis often claim, that Palestinians do not know how to compromise. (Another former prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, famously complained that ‘Palestinians take and take while Israel gives and gives.’) That is an indecent charge, since the Palestinians made much the most far-reaching compromise of all when the PLO formally accepted the legitimacy of Israel within the 1949 armistice border. With that concession, Palestinians ceded their claim to more than half the territory that the UN’s partition resolution had assigned to its Arab inhabitants. They have never received any credit for this wrenching concession, made years before Israel agreed that Palestinians had a right to statehood in any part of Palestine. The notion that further border adjustments should be made at the expense of the 22 per cent of the territory that remains to the Palestinians is deeply offensive to them, and understandably so.

Nonetheless, the Palestinians agreed at the Camp David summit to adjustments to the pre-1967 border that would allow large numbers of West Bank settlers – about 70 per cent – to remain within the Jewish state, provided they received comparable territory on Israel’s side of the border. Barak rejected this.'

Read on:

Chomsky: The Barak proposal in Camp David, the Barak-Clinton proposal, in the United States, I didn't check the Canadian media, in the United States you cannot find a map, which is the most important thing of course, check in Canada, see if you can find a map. You go to Israel, you can find a map, you go to scholarly sources, you can find a map. Here's what you find when you look at a map: You find that this generous, magnanimous proposal provided Israel with a salient east of Jerusalem, which was established primarily by the Labor government, in order to bisect the West Bank. That salient goes almost to Jericho, breaks the West Bank into two cantons, then there's a second salient to the North, going to the Israeli settlement of Ariel, which bisects the Northern part into two cantons.

So, we've got three cantons in the West Bank, virtually separated. All three of them are separated from a small area of East Jerusalem which is the center of Palestinian commercial and cultural life and of communications. So you have four cantons, all separated from the West, from Gaza, so that's five cantons, all surrounded by Israeli settlements, infrastructure, development and so on, which also incidentally guarantee Israel control of the water resources.

This does not rise to the level of South Africa 40 years ago when South Africa established the Bantustans. That's the generous, magnanimous offer. And there's a good reason why maps weren't shown. Because as soon as you look at a map, you see it.

Solomon: All right, but let me just say, Arafat didn't even bother putting a counter-proposal on the table.

Chomsky: Oh, that's not true.

Solomon: They negotiated that afterwards.

Chomsky: That's not true.

Solomon: I guess my question is, if they don't continue to negotiate -

Chomsky: They did. That's false.

Solomon: That's false?

Chomsky: Not only is it false, but not a single participant in the meetings says it. That's a media fabrication . . .

Solomon: That Arafat didn't put a counter-proposal . . .

Chomsky: Yeah, they had a proposal. They proposed the international consensus, which has been accepted by the entire world, the Arab states, the PLO. They proposed a settlement which is in accordance with an overwhelming international consensus, and is blocked by the United States.

Solomon: If you don't talk -

Chomsky: Yeah, they did talk. They talked. They proposed that.

Solomon: Once they walked out of Camp David,

Chomsky: They didn't walk out of Camp David . . .

Solomon: Both camps . . .

Chomsky: No, no, both sides walked out of Camp David.

chadwick · May 2013

mcgruff10 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v-ShaFpiVE

enough said. play i say!

sweet

Byrnzie · May 2013

mcgruff10 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v-ShaFpiVE

enough said. play i say!

Would be good if that generation grew up understanding why their favourite band refuses to play in their country. It's knowledge and understanding like that which helped put an end to Apartheid in South Africa.

Bentleyspop · May 2013

Byrnzie wrote:

mcgruff10 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v-ShaFpiVE

enough said. play i say!

Would be good if that generation grew up understanding why their favourite band refuses to play in their country. It's knowledge and understanding like that which helped put an end to Apartheid in South Africa.

You're a champion at cutting and pasting links so where is your link from the Guardian.UK to prove this?

dimitrispearljam · May 2013

Byrnzie wrote:

why their favourite band refuses to play in their country.

not true..never the band or their management or memebrs of the band said they refuse to play to Israel
they never played there,same they never played to Romania,Bulgaria,Albania,Russia,China ,Ucraine..and 150 other countries of the planet as well

Hugh Freaking Dillon · May 2013

dimitrispearljam wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

why their favourite band refuses to play in their country.

not true..never the band or their management or memebrs of the band said they refuse to play to Israel
they never played there,same they never played to Romania,Bulgaria,Albania,Russia,China ,Ucraine..and 150 other countries of the planet as well

yeah, I gotta go with this. how do we know they REFUSE to play there? it's not like it's the only place they've skipped. if they did a tour of the mid-east and skipped over Israel, maybe that would be something.

Jason P · May 2013

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

why their favourite band refuses to play in their country.

not true..never the band or their management or memebrs of the band said they refuse to play to Israel
they never played there,same they never played to Romania,Bulgaria,Albania,Russia,China ,Ucraine..and 150 other countries of the planet as well

yeah, I gotta go with this. how do we know they REFUSE to play there? it's not like it's the only place they've skipped. if they did a tour of the mid-east and skipped over Israel, maybe that would be something.

And they played there in '95, albiet as Neil Young's band.

Should Pearl Jam Play in Israel?

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