got it,ofcourse worth it..and i agree..
but they should stop taking money for membership from israelians,selling records and t-shirt there..
and let everyone know we dont play there for that and this reasons..
by not playing there,and let us assume they do it for political reasons,but the same time they doing business with israelians via their record company,or web store,doesnt make it boycott at all for me...
and this goes to every artist that claim he "boycott israel" while he promote and selling records and merch at israel
but that's a bit silly ... i don't think pearl jam has ever promised to play there ... heck ... you can live in parts of canada and it would cost more to see Pearl Jam than if you lived in israel and traveled to say greece ...
by not accepting their money - you're actually depriving them of their music ... that seems absurd ... i think israelis understand that the likelihood of PJ playing there is slim for whatever reason - they can choose not to support the band or support them ...
thats the trick...they never promised to play there...same time they never said we will not play there..
so keep that open,make people think whatever they want..
if they boycott israel,for me they need to say it open...and put out the reasons too..
so,selling their music and merch at israel, ,but not doing a show(which again i believe has to do with where is israel at the map and not for political reasons, )isnt boycott for me..
and fans from israel has the right toi dream and request a show there..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
yes please give up your membership. i think you are racist. yes lets just remove all borders and boundries and maybe in your naive way of socialist thinking it will all work out just the way you think. but unfortunately it will not. will you be coming to the aid of israelis as you speak now as their enemies try to wipe them off the face of the earth. i think not. israel would like nothing more than to have peace. you don't live in their shoes and you probably think their were no concentration camps either. it is a very very complex issue. how can you expect your enemies of a few thousand years to all of a sudden just say let bygones be bygones.these problems were not started with land grabs.
Firstly, you think I'm racist because I oppose the Illegal occupation - an occupation opposed by the entire World, excluding Israel and the U.S?
Do you support the occupation? If so, then it's you are the racist.
Secondly, look at this map and tell me how the Palestinians have tried wiping Israel off the face of the Earth?
You're simply trying to turn reality on it's head. You wouldn't be a fan of Aice in Wonderland would you?
Lastly, the Jews and Arabs in historical Palestine lived in peace together for over a thousand years before the Zionists moved in and began ethnically cleansing the place.
First of all I have no problem with Pearl Jam playing in Israel. The grateful dead played in egypt back in the early 70's. If Pearl Jam wants to play there and it was safe and secure I say go for it. Also would you be opposed to Pearl Jam playing there if they did a free concert and invited say 10-15 year old israeli's and palestinians for free and it was 50-50 split of israeli and palestinian kids?
Second it takes two to fight so I am sure there have been SINNERS on both sides. This goes way past 1946. See David vs Goliath. It takes a greater person or society to admit there have been mistakes and to find a way to work things out. There is no way that old people that have been fighting for a generation will find peace. peace will only come from the youth in the middle east who have sense and that have not been brainwashed
Finally, Israel has attempted peace agreements with the US and Russia participating. but it takes having a true partner in order to reach a peace deal and it will not come from the current generation. Peace will only come from the youth. Unfortunately Palestinians only had a terrorist turned politician try to act like he wanted peace. Yassar Arafat wanted no peace. he was a terrorist since the late 60's early 70's who hijacked planes and left jordan for tunisia after causing chaos in jordan and I have no sympathy for terrorist. My cousin just dealt with Terrorist at the Boston Marathon. The Palestinian may have a gov't but a terrorist organization is running the show
see Bill Clinton's video below- comments and every other president that has tried to bring peace deals whether clinton or bush or any other president. it never happened mainly for one reason.Yassar Arafat... both sides will have to make sacrifices if they ever want peace. We will all most likely be dead before that ever happens
First of all I have no problem with Pearl Jam playing in Israel. The grateful dead played in egypt back in the early 70's.
Second it takes two to fight so I am sure there have been SINNERS on both sides. This goes way past 1946. See David vs Goliath. It takes a greater person or society to admit there have been mistakes and to find a way to work things out. There is no way that old people that have been fighting for a generation will find peace. peace will only come from the youth in the middle east who have sense and that have not been brainwashed
Firstly, what does The grateful dead playing in Egypt in the '70's have to do with anything?
Secondly, the occupation is not a two-way street. One side - Israel - is occupying the land of another, stealing more and more of that land by building illegal settlements on it, and evicting the Palestinians. This is known as ethnic cleansing.
Finally, Israel has attempted peace agreements with the US and Russia participating. but it takes having a true partner in order to reach a peace deal and it will not come from the current generation. Peace will only come from the youth. Unfortunately Palestinians only had a terrorist turned politician try to act like he wanted peace. Yassar Arafat wanted no peace. he was a terrorist since the late 60's early 70's who hijacked planes and left jordan for tunisia after causing chaos in jordan and I have no sympathy for terrorist. My cousin just dealt with Terrorist at the Boston Marathon. The Palestinian may have a gov't but a terrorist organization is running the show
see Bill Clinton's video below- comments and every other president that has tried to bring peace deals whether clinton or bush or any other president. it never happened mainly for one reason.Yassar Arafat... both sides will have to make sacrifices if they ever want peace. We will all most likely be dead before that ever happens
What peace deal are you referring to here? The Oslo accords? You say the peace deal never happened 'mainly for one reason - Yasser Arafat'. Where did you get this misinformation from?
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-sieg ... ocess-scam '...The problem is not, as Israelis often claim, that Palestinians do not know how to compromise. (Another former prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, famously complained that ‘Palestinians take and take while Israel gives and gives.’) That is an indecent charge, since the Palestinians made much the most far-reaching compromise of all when the PLO formally accepted the legitimacy of Israel within the 1949 armistice border. With that concession, Palestinians ceded their claim to more than half the territory that the UN’s partition resolution had assigned to its Arab inhabitants. They have never received any credit for this wrenching concession, made years before Israel agreed that Palestinians had a right to statehood in any part of Palestine. The notion that further border adjustments should be made at the expense of the 22 per cent of the territory that remains to the Palestinians is deeply offensive to them, and understandably so.
Nonetheless, the Palestinians agreed at the Camp David summit to adjustments to the pre-1967 border that would allow large numbers of West Bank settlers – about 70 per cent – to remain within the Jewish state, provided they received comparable territory on Israel’s side of the border. Barak rejected this.'
Read on:
Chomsky: The Barak proposal in Camp David, the Barak-Clinton proposal, in the United States, I didn't check the Canadian media, in the United States you cannot find a map, which is the most important thing of course, check in Canada, see if you can find a map. You go to Israel, you can find a map, you go to scholarly sources, you can find a map. Here's what you find when you look at a map: You find that this generous, magnanimous proposal provided Israel with a salient east of Jerusalem, which was established primarily by the Labor government, in order to bisect the West Bank. That salient goes almost to Jericho, breaks the West Bank into two cantons, then there's a second salient to the North, going to the Israeli settlement of Ariel, which bisects the Northern part into two cantons.
So, we've got three cantons in the West Bank, virtually separated. All three of them are separated from a small area of East Jerusalem which is the center of Palestinian commercial and cultural life and of communications. So you have four cantons, all separated from the West, from Gaza, so that's five cantons, all surrounded by Israeli settlements, infrastructure, development and so on, which also incidentally guarantee Israel control of the water resources.
This does not rise to the level of South Africa 40 years ago when South Africa established the Bantustans. That's the generous, magnanimous offer. And there's a good reason why maps weren't shown. Because as soon as you look at a map, you see it.
Solomon: All right, but let me just say, Arafat didn't even bother putting a counter-proposal on the table.
Chomsky: Oh, that's not true.
Solomon: They negotiated that afterwards.
Chomsky: That's not true.
Solomon: I guess my question is, if they don't continue to negotiate -
Chomsky: They did. That's false.
Solomon: That's false?
Chomsky: Not only is it false, but not a single participant in the meetings says it. That's a media fabrication . . .
Solomon: That Arafat didn't put a counter-proposal . . .
Chomsky:Yeah, they had a proposal. They proposed the international consensus, which has been accepted by the entire world, the Arab states, the PLO. They proposed a settlement which is in accordance with an overwhelming international consensus, and is blocked by the United States.
Solomon: If you don't talk -
Chomsky: Yeah, they did talk. They talked. They proposed that.
Solomon: Once they walked out of Camp David,
Chomsky: They didn't walk out of Camp David . . .
Solomon: Both camps . . .
Chomsky: No, no, both sides walked out of Camp David.
Would be good if that generation grew up understanding why their favourite band refuses to play in their country. It's knowledge and understanding like that which helped put an end to Apartheid in South Africa.
Would be good if that generation grew up understanding why their favourite band refuses to play in their country. It's knowledge and understanding like that which helped put an end to Apartheid in South Africa.
You're a champion at cutting and pasting links so where is your link from the Guardian.UK to prove this?
why their favourite band refuses to play in their country.
not true..never the band or their management or memebrs of the band said they refuse to play to Israel
they never played there,same they never played to Romania,Bulgaria,Albania,Russia,China ,Ucraine..and 150 other countries of the planet as well
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
why their favourite band refuses to play in their country.
not true..never the band or their management or memebrs of the band said they refuse to play to Israel
they never played there,same they never played to Romania,Bulgaria,Albania,Russia,China ,Ucraine..and 150 other countries of the planet as well
yeah, I gotta go with this. how do we know they REFUSE to play there? it's not like it's the only place they've skipped. if they did a tour of the mid-east and skipped over Israel, maybe that would be something.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
why their favourite band refuses to play in their country.
not true..never the band or their management or memebrs of the band said they refuse to play to Israel
they never played there,same they never played to Romania,Bulgaria,Albania,Russia,China ,Ucraine..and 150 other countries of the planet as well
yeah, I gotta go with this. how do we know they REFUSE to play there? it's not like it's the only place they've skipped. if they did a tour of the mid-east and skipped over Israel, maybe that would be something.
And they played there in '95, albiet as Neil Young's band.
why their favourite band refuses to play in their country.
not true..never the band or their management or memebrs of the band said they refuse to play to Israel
they never played there,same they never played to Romania,Bulgaria,Albania,Russia,China ,Ucraine..and 150 other countries of the planet as well
yeah, I gotta go with this. how do we know they REFUSE to play there? it's not like it's the only place they've skipped. if they did a tour of the mid-east and skipped over Israel, maybe that would be something.
yep...my opinion is they never played there cos of where the israel is in the map
if israel was at north europe next to germany and netherlands,my opinion is they would play 15 times already there..and would be always sold out shows..they have huge fan base at israel..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
No. It's not a safe enough part of the world right now IMO. I don't think I'd go to a huge public gathering in Israel at the moment, much less be in the spotlight as an American.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
No. It's not a safe enough part of the world right now IMO. I don't think I'd go to a huge public gathering in Israel at the moment, much less be in the spotlight as an American.
yosi would have us believe it's no more dangerous than anywhere else in the world. and really, just playing devil's advocate here, I wonder what the perception of the safety of US citizens is abroad after all the violence that has been going on (school and theatre and other mass shootings). I mean, really, all we can base our knowledge on, for the most part, is the media. and we all know the media sensationalizes absolutely everything for ratings and fear. maybe people in israel think "the US, I'd never fucking go there-you can't even go to a fucking movie! and the government protects the association that holds rallies of thousands of people proclaiming their rights to carry loaded weapons in public!".
If I lived thousands of miles and an ocean away, I might think the US is a pretty horrible and dangerous place too.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
No. It's not a safe enough part of the world right now IMO. I don't think I'd go to a huge public gathering in Israel at the moment, much less be in the spotlight as an American.
yosi would have us believe it's no more dangerous than anywhere else in the world. and really, just playing devil's advocate here, I wonder what the perception of the safety of US citizens is abroad after all the violence that has been going on (school and theatre and other mass shootings). I mean, really, all we can base our knowledge on, for the most part, is the media. and we all know the media sensationalizes absolutely everything for ratings and fear. maybe people in israel think "the US, I'd never fucking go there-you can't even go to a fucking movie! and the government protects the association that holds rallies of thousands of people proclaiming their rights to carry loaded weapons in public!".
If I lived thousands of miles and an ocean away, I might think the US is a pretty horrible and dangerous place too.
i agree...you never know where bad things can happen..and seems if you are American maybe is dangerous everywhere..really,alot of countries dont have the best feelings for usa..and not only countries most of people are muslism..
however alot of Americans daily visiting israel without a problem..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
No. It's not a safe enough part of the world right now IMO. I don't think I'd go to a huge public gathering in Israel at the moment, much less be in the spotlight as an American.
yosi would have us believe it's no more dangerous than anywhere else in the world. and really, just playing devil's advocate here, I wonder what the perception of the safety of US citizens is abroad after all the violence that has been going on (school and theatre and other mass shootings). I mean, really, all we can base our knowledge on, for the most part, is the media. and we all know the media sensationalizes absolutely everything for ratings and fear. maybe people in israel think "the US, I'd never fucking go there-you can't even go to a fucking movie! and the government protects the association that holds rallies of thousands of people proclaiming their rights to carry loaded weapons in public!".
If I lived thousands of miles and an ocean away, I might think the US is a pretty horrible and dangerous place too.
i agree...you never know where bad things can happen..and seems if you are American maybe is dangerous everywhere..really,alot of countries dont have the best feelings for usa..and not only countries most of people are muslism..
however alot of Americans daily visiting israel without a problem..
I've been to Israel a few times and have never had a problem or been worried about my safety.
I've even been there during some rather stressful times and still never worried.
Quite a few American and other artists play there every year with NO problems.
So safety is not an issue
i agree...you never know where bad things can happen..and seems if you are American maybe is dangerous everywhere..really,alot of countries dont have the best feelings for usa..and not only countries most of people are muslism..
however alot of Americans daily visiting israel without a problem..
I've been to Israel a few times and have never had a problem or been worried about my safety.
I've even been there during some rather stressful times and still never worried.
Quite a few American and other artists play there every year with NO problems.
So safety is not an issue
true..as i post before,where is israel is in the map is the issue for me and the band dont play there..
not safety..i just comment about being an american is a foreign country maybe dont get the same wellcome like a guy from sweden..
and you know,alot of times we read or watch at tv things,but reality is a way dfferent
the 1st person ever i met in my life from israel,the first question i asked,was
is it safe there??
and the answer was simple..
sure..i dont have to worry about anything..just need to cut smoking cos this shit is killing me..
and then i realise people living their lifes and we at the other side of the ocean think we know all about them..we know shit..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
No. It's not a safe enough part of the world right now IMO. I don't think I'd go to a huge public gathering in Israel at the moment, much less be in the spotlight as an American.
yosi would have us believe it's no more dangerous than anywhere else in the world. and really, just playing devil's advocate here, I wonder what the perception of the safety of US citizens is abroad after all the violence that has been going on (school and theatre and other mass shootings). I mean, really, all we can base our knowledge on, for the most part, is the media. and we all know the media sensationalizes absolutely everything for ratings and fear. maybe people in israel think "the US, I'd never fucking go there-you can't even go to a fucking movie! and the government protects the association that holds rallies of thousands of people proclaiming their rights to carry loaded weapons in public!".
If I lived thousands of miles and an ocean away, I might think the US is a pretty horrible and dangerous place too.
i agree...you never know where bad things can happen..and seems if you are American maybe is dangerous everywhere..really,alot of countries dont have the best feelings for usa..and not only countries most of people are muslism..
however alot of Americans daily visiting israel without a problem..
That's true. Of course people go there and come home safe, and I hear it's an amazing place. If things ever get normal in the region, I'd like to visit. But I don't agree that the US is potentially as dangerous as Israel, which is really a war zone. I mean, come on.... I have nothing against Israel the nation - I just don't want PJ to be going into war zones (or so close to it they may as well be). And yeah, I'm Canadian. I know all about people's negative feelings about the US! That is pretty much a universal sentiment (sometimes justified, sometimes not). But until there is some kind of war state in the US, people are still going to come to Disney World or the Grand Canyon with their and not think too hard about being blown up or getting stuck within its borders for one reason or another. Israel is certainly a lot safer than a lot of the Middle East for Americans, but it is always on the brink. I mean, with the whole Iran situation, and Palestine, and the US war, shit could fall apart fast, you know? I'm not generally that cautious a person, but when it comes to being close to very politically unstable regions that are always teetering on the brink of war on their own turf, I tend to want to avoid it if possible. But that's just me!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
yep...my opinion is they never played there cos of where the israel is in the map
if israel was at north europe next to germany and netherlands,my opinion is they would play 15 times already there..and would be always sold out shows..they have huge fan base at israel..
Or maybe they've not played there before because its a racist Apartheid state engaged in an ongoing campaign of ethnic cleansing?
yep...my opinion is they never played there cos of where the israel is in the map
if israel was at north europe next to germany and netherlands,my opinion is they would play 15 times already there..and would be always sold out shows..they have huge fan base at israel..
Or maybe they've not played there before because its a racist Apartheid state engaged in an ongoing campaign of ethnic cleansing?
:think: That's probably not why they haven't played there.
:fp:
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Would be good if that generation grew up understanding why their favourite band refuses to play in their country. It's knowledge and understanding like that which helped put an end to Apartheid in South Africa.
You're a champion at cutting and pasting links so where is your link from the Guardian.UK to prove this?
Its up your arse. I'll give you five minutes to find it.
That part of syria ISN'T even Arab. The ONLY people allowed in that area are the Circassion people who migrated from Russia during the ethnic cleansing the Russians did against those people. How do I know, I've been there. There's a UN outpost that checks your ID to make sure you're NOT Arab. Again, Israel being the aggressor for no FUCKEN reason at all. Always sticking there noses in other people shit. And when I say Israel, I MEAN there Zionist government. NOT THE PEOPLE OF Israel. The people deserve to see PJ, but not as long as there fucked up government is in power......hmmmm, I actually sound like there leaders now. :roll:
Would be good if that generation grew up understanding why their favourite band refuses to play in their country. It's knowledge and understanding like that which helped put an end to Apartheid in South Africa.
You're a champion at cutting and pasting links so where is your link from the Guardian.UK to prove this?
Its up your arse. I'll give you five minutes to find it.
A well thought out, intelligent, adult response :fp:
I don't expect anything more from you :nono:
:corn:
You're a champion at cutting and pasting links so where is your link from the Guardian.UK to prove this?
A well thought out, intelligent, adult response :fp:
I don't expect anything more from you :nono:
:corn:
Next...
It's quite clear that unless you have a link from the Guardian.UK to cut and paste or you're quoting from other peoples posts that you don't have anything original to say.
It's quite clear that unless you have a link from the Guardian.UK to cut and paste or you're quoting from other peoples posts that you don't have anything original to say.
Kat: Discuss the topic, not the people discussing the topic. No personal comments. Look your comments over before hitting Submit and be sure you're debating THE TOPIC.
It's quite clear that unless you have a link from the Guardian.UK to cut and paste or you're quoting from other peoples posts that you don't have anything original to say.
Interesting that you followed up your comment about me cutting and pasting, and not having anything original to say, with a Youtube link.
Also funny that on the first page of this thread there are seven posts by me, and only one contains a link. I suggest if you want to make personal attacks against me then you should at least make them accurate, instead of spouting gibberish.
It's quite clear that unless you have a link from the Guardian.UK to cut and paste or you're quoting from other peoples posts that you don't have anything original to say.
Kat: Discuss the topic, not the people discussing the topic. No personal comments. Look your comments over before hitting Submit and be sure you're debating THE TOPIC.
Comments
so keep that open,make people think whatever they want..
if they boycott israel,for me they need to say it open...and put out the reasons too..
so,selling their music and merch at israel, ,but not doing a show(which again i believe has to do with where is israel at the map and not for political reasons, )isnt boycott for me..
and fans from israel has the right toi dream and request a show there..
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
enough said. play i say!
First of all I have no problem with Pearl Jam playing in Israel. The grateful dead played in egypt back in the early 70's. If Pearl Jam wants to play there and it was safe and secure I say go for it. Also would you be opposed to Pearl Jam playing there if they did a free concert and invited say 10-15 year old israeli's and palestinians for free and it was 50-50 split of israeli and palestinian kids?
Second it takes two to fight so I am sure there have been SINNERS on both sides. This goes way past 1946. See David vs Goliath. It takes a greater person or society to admit there have been mistakes and to find a way to work things out. There is no way that old people that have been fighting for a generation will find peace. peace will only come from the youth in the middle east who have sense and that have not been brainwashed
Finally, Israel has attempted peace agreements with the US and Russia participating. but it takes having a true partner in order to reach a peace deal and it will not come from the current generation. Peace will only come from the youth. Unfortunately Palestinians only had a terrorist turned politician try to act like he wanted peace. Yassar Arafat wanted no peace. he was a terrorist since the late 60's early 70's who hijacked planes and left jordan for tunisia after causing chaos in jordan and I have no sympathy for terrorist. My cousin just dealt with Terrorist at the Boston Marathon. The Palestinian may have a gov't but a terrorist organization is running the show
see Bill Clinton's video below- comments and every other president that has tried to bring peace deals whether clinton or bush or any other president. it never happened mainly for one reason.Yassar Arafat... both sides will have to make sacrifices if they ever want peace. We will all most likely be dead before that ever happens
http://youtu.be/FpOCOIcIo30
Firstly, what does The grateful dead playing in Egypt in the '70's have to do with anything?
Secondly, the occupation is not a two-way street. One side - Israel - is occupying the land of another, stealing more and more of that land by building illegal settlements on it, and evicting the Palestinians. This is known as ethnic cleansing.
What peace deal are you referring to here? The Oslo accords? You say the peace deal never happened 'mainly for one reason - Yasser Arafat'. Where did you get this misinformation from?
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-sieg ... ocess-scam
'...The problem is not, as Israelis often claim, that Palestinians do not know how to compromise. (Another former prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, famously complained that ‘Palestinians take and take while Israel gives and gives.’) That is an indecent charge, since the Palestinians made much the most far-reaching compromise of all when the PLO formally accepted the legitimacy of Israel within the 1949 armistice border. With that concession, Palestinians ceded their claim to more than half the territory that the UN’s partition resolution had assigned to its Arab inhabitants. They have never received any credit for this wrenching concession, made years before Israel agreed that Palestinians had a right to statehood in any part of Palestine. The notion that further border adjustments should be made at the expense of the 22 per cent of the territory that remains to the Palestinians is deeply offensive to them, and understandably so.
Nonetheless, the Palestinians agreed at the Camp David summit to adjustments to the pre-1967 border that would allow large numbers of West Bank settlers – about 70 per cent – to remain within the Jewish state, provided they received comparable territory on Israel’s side of the border. Barak rejected this.'
Read on:
Chomsky: The Barak proposal in Camp David, the Barak-Clinton proposal, in the United States, I didn't check the Canadian media, in the United States you cannot find a map, which is the most important thing of course, check in Canada, see if you can find a map. You go to Israel, you can find a map, you go to scholarly sources, you can find a map. Here's what you find when you look at a map: You find that this generous, magnanimous proposal provided Israel with a salient east of Jerusalem, which was established primarily by the Labor government, in order to bisect the West Bank. That salient goes almost to Jericho, breaks the West Bank into two cantons, then there's a second salient to the North, going to the Israeli settlement of Ariel, which bisects the Northern part into two cantons.
So, we've got three cantons in the West Bank, virtually separated. All three of them are separated from a small area of East Jerusalem which is the center of Palestinian commercial and cultural life and of communications. So you have four cantons, all separated from the West, from Gaza, so that's five cantons, all surrounded by Israeli settlements, infrastructure, development and so on, which also incidentally guarantee Israel control of the water resources.
This does not rise to the level of South Africa 40 years ago when South Africa established the Bantustans. That's the generous, magnanimous offer. And there's a good reason why maps weren't shown. Because as soon as you look at a map, you see it.
Solomon: All right, but let me just say, Arafat didn't even bother putting a counter-proposal on the table.
Chomsky: Oh, that's not true.
Solomon: They negotiated that afterwards.
Chomsky: That's not true.
Solomon: I guess my question is, if they don't continue to negotiate -
Chomsky: They did. That's false.
Solomon: That's false?
Chomsky: Not only is it false, but not a single participant in the meetings says it. That's a media fabrication . . .
Solomon: That Arafat didn't put a counter-proposal . . .
Chomsky: Yeah, they had a proposal. They proposed the international consensus, which has been accepted by the entire world, the Arab states, the PLO. They proposed a settlement which is in accordance with an overwhelming international consensus, and is blocked by the United States.
Solomon: If you don't talk -
Chomsky: Yeah, they did talk. They talked. They proposed that.
Solomon: Once they walked out of Camp David,
Chomsky: They didn't walk out of Camp David . . .
Solomon: Both camps . . .
Chomsky: No, no, both sides walked out of Camp David.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Would be good if that generation grew up understanding why their favourite band refuses to play in their country. It's knowledge and understanding like that which helped put an end to Apartheid in South Africa.
You're a champion at cutting and pasting links so where is your link from the Guardian.UK to prove this?
they never played there,same they never played to Romania,Bulgaria,Albania,Russia,China ,Ucraine..and 150 other countries of the planet as well
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
yeah, I gotta go with this. how do we know they REFUSE to play there? it's not like it's the only place they've skipped. if they did a tour of the mid-east and skipped over Israel, maybe that would be something.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
if israel was at north europe next to germany and netherlands,my opinion is they would play 15 times already there..and would be always sold out shows..they have huge fan base at israel..
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
yosi would have us believe it's no more dangerous than anywhere else in the world. and really, just playing devil's advocate here, I wonder what the perception of the safety of US citizens is abroad after all the violence that has been going on (school and theatre and other mass shootings). I mean, really, all we can base our knowledge on, for the most part, is the media. and we all know the media sensationalizes absolutely everything for ratings and fear. maybe people in israel think "the US, I'd never fucking go there-you can't even go to a fucking movie! and the government protects the association that holds rallies of thousands of people proclaiming their rights to carry loaded weapons in public!".
If I lived thousands of miles and an ocean away, I might think the US is a pretty horrible and dangerous place too.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
however alot of Americans daily visiting israel without a problem..
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I've been to Israel a few times and have never had a problem or been worried about my safety.
I've even been there during some rather stressful times and still never worried.
Quite a few American and other artists play there every year with NO problems.
So safety is not an issue
not safety..i just comment about being an american is a foreign country maybe dont get the same wellcome like a guy from sweden..
and you know,alot of times we read or watch at tv things,but reality is a way dfferent
the 1st person ever i met in my life from israel,the first question i asked,was
is it safe there??
and the answer was simple..
sure..i dont have to worry about anything..just need to cut smoking cos this shit is killing me..
and then i realise people living their lifes and we at the other side of the ocean think we know all about them..we know shit..
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Or maybe they've not played there before because its a racist Apartheid state engaged in an ongoing campaign of ethnic cleansing?
:fp:
Its up your arse. I'll give you five minutes to find it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22725334
Um, yeah, PJ shouldn't play Israel!
That part of syria ISN'T even Arab. The ONLY people allowed in that area are the Circassion people who migrated from Russia during the ethnic cleansing the Russians did against those people. How do I know, I've been there. There's a UN outpost that checks your ID to make sure you're NOT Arab. Again, Israel being the aggressor for no FUCKEN reason at all. Always sticking there noses in other people shit. And when I say Israel, I MEAN there Zionist government. NOT THE PEOPLE OF Israel. The people deserve to see PJ, but not as long as there fucked up government is in power......hmmmm, I actually sound like there leaders now. :roll:
A well thought out, intelligent, adult response :fp:
I don't expect anything more from you :nono:
:corn:
A well thought out, intelligent, adult response :fp:
I don't expect anything more from you :nono:
:corn:
Next...
It's quite clear that unless you have a link from the Guardian.UK to cut and paste or you're quoting from other peoples posts that you don't have anything original to say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v-ShaFpiVE
Kat: Discuss the topic, not the people discussing the topic. No personal comments. Look your comments over before hitting Submit and be sure you're debating THE TOPIC.
Interesting that you followed up your comment about me cutting and pasting, and not having anything original to say, with a Youtube link.
Also funny that on the first page of this thread there are seven posts by me, and only one contains a link. I suggest if you want to make personal attacks against me then you should at least make them accurate, instead of spouting gibberish.
A well thought out, intelligent, adult response :fp:
I don't expect anything more from you :nono:
:corn:
Next...