Boston Marathon - explosion

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  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    redrock wrote:

    Another point, easier to find a 'fugitive' trying to run away when no one else is in the street, as opposed to this fugitive melting away in a crowd.


    Except it was a civilian waking up in intensive care who apparently identified the terrorist that allowed the authorities to narrow it down to these 2. And it was a civilian who alerted the authorities to the 2nd guys whereabouts. While the authorities had people in lock down and were searching people homes he was never caught ... only after the lock down and the other non sense ended was he apprehended ... with the aid of civilians.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,600
    lukin2006 wrote:
    redrock wrote:

    Another point, easier to find a 'fugitive' trying to run away when no one else is in the street, as opposed to this fugitive melting away in a crowd.


    Except it was a civilian waking up in intensive care who apparently identified the terrorist that allowed the authorities to narrow it down to these 2. And it was a civilian who alerted the authorities to the 2nd guys whereabouts. While the authorities had people in lock down and were searching people homes he was never caught ... only after the lock down and the other non sense ended was he apprehended ... with the aid of civilians.

    And not one of those locked down civilians was killed, or held hostage, or used as a human shield, or caught in a crossfire. We don't know if the same could be said had people been allowed to wander freely.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Sorry if I didn't go all the way back, so if this has been said I apologize.

    as most of you probably know, I normally am all about protecting people's rights over police state tactics.

    In this case, and in most cases while trying to effect an arrest police can operate within guidelines of probable cause. Searching homes in a pre-defined area where a suspect is hiding is justifiable in this case because they have reasonably calculated the size and scope of the area, set up perimeters and began their search.

    Not letting people leave their homes is a mistake the police made. Searching all vehicles leaving the area where the road blocks/perimeters have been set up would have sufficed. People milling about on the street could have been arrested for interfering with a police investigation, however I don't believe the charges would have stuck. Telling someone to stay in their home is all fine and good, but when you physically restrain someone you aren't looking for you could be seen as crossing over the line.

    Again police work and reasonable searches are conducted daily without trampling on rights, manhunts are as well. The key word is reasonable. I believe the cops here could show they had probable cause to enter the homes. They didn't do it to all homes in the boston area, just where they believed the suspect was located

    As far as the picture goes, when you don't know what is happening, or how many people may be working together, or where they may be located specifically, it wouldn't surprise me that a figure in a window with a mechanical device would have a gun pointed at them by law enforcement. The still photo is disturbing no doubt, but I question how long the gun was pointed.

    I think in some cases here the boston police dept acted within the scope of people's rights and I am positive they also made mistakes. Maybe it will wake people up to what things like NDAA and the patriot act actually allow...
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    JimmyV wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:
    redrock wrote:

    Another point, easier to find a 'fugitive' trying to run away when no one else is in the street, as opposed to this fugitive melting away in a crowd.


    Except it was a civilian waking up in intensive care who apparently identified the terrorist that allowed the authorities to narrow it down to these 2. And it was a civilian who alerted the authorities to the 2nd guys whereabouts. While the authorities had people in lock down and were searching people homes he was never caught ... only after the lock down and the other non sense ended was he apprehended ... with the aid of civilians.

    And not one of those locked down civilians was killed, or kidnapped, or caught in a crossfire. We don't know if the same could be said had people been allowed to wander freely.

    You can also suggest people stay indoors, warn people of the dangers and if they choose to venture out and end up getting caught in something ... at least it was their choice. Would not surprise me if the authorities used the incident as a trial run to see how far they could go to abusing civilians rights ... and from what I can see apparently it's ok.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    The Associated Press ‏@AP
    BREAKING: White House says surviving suspect in Boston bombings will not be tried as an enemy combatant.

    Good to see
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Sorry if I didn't go all the way back, so if this has been said I apologize.

    as most of you probably know, I normally am all about protecting people's rights over police state tactics.

    In this case, and in most cases while trying to effect an arrest police can operate within guidelines of probable cause. Searching homes in a pre-defined area where a suspect is hiding is justifiable in this case because they have reasonably calculated the size and scope of the area, set up perimeters and began their search.

    Not letting people leave their homes is a mistake the police made. Searching all vehicles leaving the area where the road blocks/perimeters have been set up would have sufficed. People milling about on the street could have been arrested for interfering with a police investigation, however I don't believe the charges would have stuck. Telling someone to stay in their home is all fine and good, but when you physically restrain someone you aren't looking for you could be seen as crossing over the line.

    Again police work and reasonable searches are conducted daily without trampling on rights, manhunts are as well. The key word is reasonable. I believe the cops here could show they had probable cause to enter the homes. They didn't do it to all homes in the boston area, just where they believed the suspect was located

    As far as the picture goes, when you don't know what is happening, or how many people may be working together, or where they may be located specifically, it wouldn't surprise me that a figure in a window with a mechanical device would have a gun pointed at them by law enforcement. The still photo is disturbing no doubt, but I question how long the gun was pointed.

    I think in some cases here the boston police dept acted within the scope of people's rights and I am positive they also made mistakes. Maybe it will wake people up to what things like NDAA and the patriot act actually allow...
    very good post,i agree,resonable is the key word..if they force people to stay in isnt good..
    i think they did it ,if they did it for the good of the rest of the people for arrest the suspect asap/..
    i dont think the whole operation made for take rights from people but for keep people safe...
    atleast this i wish that happened
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    blackredyellow wrote:
    The Associated Press ‏@AP
    BREAKING: White House says surviving suspect in Boston bombings will not be tried as an enemy combatant.

    Good to see


    Hmmm... interesting. So... whatever he may have told the authorities whilst being 'interrogated' will be null and void since he hadn't been read his miranda rights???
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Sorry if I didn't go all the way back, so if this has been said I apologize.

    as most of you probably know, I normally am all about protecting people's rights over police state tactics.

    In this case, and in most cases while trying to effect an arrest police can operate within guidelines of probable cause. Searching homes in a pre-defined area where a suspect is hiding is justifiable in this case because they have reasonably calculated the size and scope of the area, set up perimeters and began their search.

    Not letting people leave their homes is a mistake the police made. Searching all vehicles leaving the area where the road blocks/perimeters have been set up would have sufficed. People milling about on the street could have been arrested for interfering with a police investigation, however I don't believe the charges would have stuck. Telling someone to stay in their home is all fine and good, but when you physically restrain someone you aren't looking for you could be seen as crossing over the line.

    Again police work and reasonable searches are conducted daily without trampling on rights, manhunts are as well. The key word is reasonable. I believe the cops here could show they had probable cause to enter the homes. They didn't do it to all homes in the boston area, just where they believed the suspect was located

    As far as the picture goes, when you don't know what is happening, or how many people may be working together, or where they may be located specifically, it wouldn't surprise me that a figure in a window with a mechanical device would have a gun pointed at them by law enforcement. The still photo is disturbing no doubt, but I question how long the gun was pointed.

    I think in some cases here the boston police dept acted within the scope of people's rights and I am positive they also made mistakes. Maybe it will wake people up to what things like NDAA and the patriot act actually allow...

    I agree. I have zero problem with the lockdown of Watertown, and clearing out some of Cambridge.

    They were just about certain that the guy was in Watertown, and having that area locked down and searched made sense for everyone. The fact that he was found one block outside their perimeter backed that up further.

    And clearing out Cambridge made sense, as they knew that these two had more explosives during the car chase that night, and who knows what they left where they lived. It could have been a terrible dangerous area.

    I also get cracking down security at points of exit (airports, trains, busses, highways, etc). I just don't agree with locking down other areas of the city. That was well above and beyond the scope of what the manhunt should have been.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,600
    lukin2006 wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:

    Except it was a civilian waking up in intensive care who apparently identified the terrorist that allowed the authorities to narrow it down to these 2. And it was a civilian who alerted the authorities to the 2nd guys whereabouts. While the authorities had people in lock down and were searching people homes he was never caught ... only after the lock down and the other non sense ended was he apprehended ... with the aid of civilians.

    And not one of those locked down civilians was killed, or kidnapped, or caught in a crossfire. We don't know if the same could be said had people been allowed to wander freely.

    You can also suggest people stay indoors, warn people of the dangers and if they choose to venture out and end up getting caught in something ... at least it was their choice. Would not surprise me if the authorities used the incident as a trial run to see how far they could go to abusing civilians rights ... and from what I can see apparently it's ok.

    And if their getting caught in something makes the situation worse? If instead of just a terrorist on the loose suddenly there is a terrorist holding hostages somewhere? Or if police officers are killed because they are trying to save someone who wandered out of their house because it was their right to do so?

    Friday was not a trial run to see how far they could go in abusing civilian's rights. That is conspiracy theory nonsense. As soon as the guy was apprehended the lock down was lifted. No one's freedoms were taken away nor will they be.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    lukin2006 wrote:

    You can also suggest people stay indoors, warn people of the dangers and if they choose to venture out and end up getting caught in something ... at least it was their choice. Would not surprise me if the authorities used the incident as a trial run to see how far they could go to abusing civilians rights ... and from what I can see apparently it's ok.
    i think we all agree that its a fine line when they pass or not pass the rights of the civilian for do an operation..isnt easy when the crisis is there..seems to me,that some of you saying,that police showed some power thats wasnt necessary...maybe they did it for thats how the plan works at a man hunt,or they want to show they got this..and he cant escape..or show the rest of the country,we are here to protect you..
    i really hope all this was for keep people safe
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,600
    blackredyellow wrote:
    The Associated Press ‏@AP
    BREAKING: White House says surviving suspect in Boston bombings will not be tried as an enemy combatant.

    Good to see

    Agreed. I think this was the only way to play it. I am very uncomfortable with the possibility that he may have become a citizen with this crime in mind...but I don't think there is anything that can be done.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    redrock wrote:
    blackredyellow wrote:
    The Associated Press ‏@AP
    BREAKING: White House says surviving suspect in Boston bombings will not be tried as an enemy combatant.

    Good to see


    Hmmm... interesting. So... whatever he may have told the authorities whilst being 'interrogated' will be null and void since he hadn't been read his miranda rights???
    oh..i really want an answer to that....you know Rita..after the human in this whole..people die,suspect hunt..
    now the politics will take over...that means alot of bullshit..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    JimmyV wrote:
    blackredyellow wrote:
    The Associated Press ‏@AP
    BREAKING: White House says surviving suspect in Boston bombings will not be tried as an enemy combatant.

    Good to see

    Agreed. I think this was the only way to play it. I am very uncomfortable with the possibility that he may have become a citizen with this crime in mind...but I don't think there is anything that can be done.
    yes,seriously,i dont think they could say anything else..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    edited April 2013
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    oh..i really want an answer to that....you know Rita..after the human in this whole..people die,suspect hunt..
    now the politics will take over...that means alot of bullshit..

    Politics have long taken over already Dimi.

    I'm just really wondering about that fact. One hears so many trials, evidence, etc. going to pot because procedure (eg Miranda) was not followed (or am I just watching too many crime series on TV?? :lol: ). I'm sure they wouldn't let anything like that happen in this case. They're going to make it air-tight.
    Post edited by redrock on
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,600
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    redrock wrote:
    blackredyellow wrote:
    The Associated Press ‏@AP
    BREAKING: White House says surviving suspect in Boston bombings will not be tried as an enemy combatant.

    Good to see


    Hmmm... interesting. So... whatever he may have told the authorities whilst being 'interrogated' will be null and void since he hadn't been read his miranda rights???
    oh..i really want an answer to that....you know Rita..after the human in this whole..people die,suspect hunt..
    now the politics will take over...that means alot of bullshit..

    I don't know how much interrogating has actually happened yet.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    edited April 2013
    JimmyV wrote:
    I don't know how much interrogating has actually happened yet.
    It would seem they zoomed in on him as soon as they could. Apparently, he was writing his responses...
    Maybe not much was said at all, but maybe what was said was crucial.

    We'll never know so it's all speculation.
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    redrock wrote:
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    oh..i really want an answer to that....you know Rita..after the human in this whole..people die,suspect hunt..
    now the politics will take over...that means alot of bullshit..

    Politics have long taken over already Dimi.
    they always do,but till the moment they arrested him,my attention was to the work the authorities was doing..
    now..all will be a fuckin mess,with theories,and what,and why,and how,and that and this..they will bomb tv and radios with interview,with so many bullshit..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    redrock wrote:

    I'm just really wondering about that fact. One hears so many trials, evidence, etc. going to pot because procedure (eg Miranda) was not followed (or am I just watching too many crime series on TV?? :lol: ). I'm sure they wouldn't let anything like that happen in this case. They're going to make it air-tight.
    Riat,now we posting here ...there are 50 already witness ,policeman and civilians that "Heard" they read his rights..
    not worry,they cover this already if didnt happen for real..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,315
    redrock wrote:
    I'm just really wondering about that fact. One hears so many trials, evidence, etc. going to pot because procedure (eg Miranda) was not followed (or am I just watching too many crime series on TV?? :lol: ). I'm sure they wouldn't let anything like that happen in this case. They're going to make it air-tight.
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    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,600
    redrock wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    I don't know how much interrogating has actually happened yet.
    It would seem they zoomed in on him as soon as they could. Apparently, he was writing his responses...
    Maybe not much was said at all, but maybe what was said was crucial.

    We'll never know so it's all speculation.

    I assume if he is in as bad shape as they say then he is also on pain medication. I think most questioning would have to wait until he is at least sober enough to answer coherently.

    I could be wrong, but I think most of the questioning is going to be in regards to who he was working with, what further plans did he have, etc. I think they have more than enough to convict just based on what happened in Watertown. He doesn't need to say much.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."

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