Concert scam by Camden Police
Comments
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meistereder wrote:Well, I am an attorney and I would not have paid it if they changed it on me like that. I am pretty sure I could have gotten them to reduce it to the lesser offense of open container that they had on the ticket before. You could have done that too, but the bottom line is that it would have cost you to hire an attorney, and it costs anyone time (= money) to fight things like this.
But yeah, it sounds like bullshit. They changed them all after the fact, which is the reason you probably would have been able to prevail at trial on that if you had fought it. BUT that is not a guarantee of course, and it is also a huge hassle to go through for $500. At some point, it makes more sense to bend over and pay it, which they know, of course, and that is why they do it. $500 is probably the amount that most people would suck up and pay without raising too much stink. If it was $2,000, you'd see people pleading not guilty and they'd be faced with 1,000 trials on stupid charges that no prosecutor wants to deal with. This is the other part of it. The state attorneys do NOT want to waste their time with these idiotic cases. I know a few people who are DA's, and they almost always settle for the lesser offense. It's just a hassle you have to go through first.
Could the OP have asked to plead guilty to a lesser charge right away, or would he have to plead not guilty, and then ask for the deal at his trial?
If he was able to do it at the mass gathering, wouldn't that open the floodgates for eveyone else to do the same?0 -
JOEJOEJOE wrote:Could the OP have asked to plead guilty to a lesser charge right away, or would he have to plead not guilty, and then ask for the deal at his trial?
If he was able to do it at the mass gathering, wouldn't that open the floodgates for eveyone else to do the same?
No, you couldn't do that at the initial hearing (usually an arraignment). It's either guilty (no contest) or guilty to the full charge. Pleading guilty to the lesser offense at the initial hearing does nothing. In fact, it would not be advised.
You'd have to plead not guilty and then try to haggle a deal down the road.
My cousin got cited for an undersized lobster by Life Guard police in San Diego, and it was the same kind of thing, believe it or not. Even though it was only one lobster that was undersized, they cited him for all 6 even though it was BS. Total citation was like $3,000. He had to plead not guilty, get a public defender, and ended up paying the $500 it should have been all along. They just make you go through the hoops.San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, [London 6/29/24], [Boston 9/15/24]0 -
But the OP could possibly have gotten everyone together and staged a mass not guilty plea. That could have worked because it would have overwhelmed the court, setting all those trials on the same day. Not sure what they would do if they saw you conspiring to do that though. Probably arrest you for staging a demonstration in the courthouse or something. Anyway, it is a thought.San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, [London 6/29/24], [Boston 9/15/24]0
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wow, thats fucking bullshit. . .there's gotta be something you can do, like someone said maybe a class-action suit or something. . .i feel lucky cause i was there and drinking (in cups) and i did see a couple of police but they didnt seem to be bothering anyone. . .in fact i remarked to my friend that they seemed to be cool with the drinking thing since i saw alot of people drinking out of bottles and noone really getting shit for iti have wished for so long, how i wish for you today
JEFFREY ROSS ROGERS 1975-2002
9.10.98 NYC / 8.23.00 JONES BEACH /4.30.03 UNIONDALE / 7.9.03 NYC /5.12.06 ALBANY/ 6.1.06 E.RUTHEFORD/ 6.3.06 E. RUTHEFORD/ CAMDEN 6.19.08/ NYC 6.24.08/ NYC 6.25.08/ HARTFORD 6.27.08/ CHICAGO 8.24.09/ PHILLY 10.31.09/ HARTFORD 5.15.10/ NEWARK 5.18.10/ NYC 5.20.10/ CHICAGO 7.19.13/ BROOKLYN 10.18.13/ BROOKLYN 10.19.13/ HARTFORD 10.25.13/ NYC 9.26.15/ 4.8.16 FT. LAUDERDALE/ 4.9.16 MIAMI / 5.1.16 NYC/ 5.2.16 NYC / 8.5.16 BOSTON / 8.7.16 BOSTON/ 8.20.18 CHICAGO/ 9.2.18 BOSTON/ 9.4.18 BOSTON/ 9.18.21 ASBURY PARK
finally, FUCK TICKETMASTER0 -
angryyoungman wrote:wow, thats fucking bullshit. . .there's gotta be something you can do, like someone said maybe a class-action suit or something. . .i feel lucky cause i was there and drinking (in cups) and i did see a couple of police but they didnt seem to be bothering anyone. . .in fact i remarked to my friend that they seemed to be cool with the drinking thing since i saw alot of people drinking out of bottles and noone really getting shit for it
The recourse is they can plead not guilty and take it to trial. No one forced them to plead guilty. Yes, it is bullshit, but that is their recourse.San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, [London 6/29/24], [Boston 9/15/24]0 -
meistereder wrote:No, you couldn't do that at the initial hearing (usually an arraignment). It's either guilty (no contest) or guilty to the full charge. Pleading guilty to the lesser offense at the initial hearing does nothing. In fact, it would not be advised.
You'd have to plead not guilty and then try to haggle a deal down the road.
My cousin got cited for an undersized lobster by Life Guard police in San Diego, and it was the same kind of thing, believe it or not. Even though it was only one lobster that was undersized, they cited him for all 6 even though it was BS. Total citation was like $3,000. He had to plead not guilty, get a public defender, and ended up paying the $500 it should have been all along. They just make you go through the hoops.
Damn, you'd think that it was very clear cut that citing him for 6 didn't make sense.
Reminds me of the Deadhead who went to jail after they included the weight of the paper when they determined the weight of the LSD he was caught selling.0 -
yeah but what if you didnt live near camden, taking it to trial would be a logistical nightmare and im sure they are aware that is the case for alot of the people ticketedmeistereder wrote:The recourse is they can plead not guilty and take it to trial. No one forced them to plead guilty. Yes, it is bullshit, but that is their recourse.i have wished for so long, how i wish for you today
JEFFREY ROSS ROGERS 1975-2002
9.10.98 NYC / 8.23.00 JONES BEACH /4.30.03 UNIONDALE / 7.9.03 NYC /5.12.06 ALBANY/ 6.1.06 E.RUTHEFORD/ 6.3.06 E. RUTHEFORD/ CAMDEN 6.19.08/ NYC 6.24.08/ NYC 6.25.08/ HARTFORD 6.27.08/ CHICAGO 8.24.09/ PHILLY 10.31.09/ HARTFORD 5.15.10/ NEWARK 5.18.10/ NYC 5.20.10/ CHICAGO 7.19.13/ BROOKLYN 10.18.13/ BROOKLYN 10.19.13/ HARTFORD 10.25.13/ NYC 9.26.15/ 4.8.16 FT. LAUDERDALE/ 4.9.16 MIAMI / 5.1.16 NYC/ 5.2.16 NYC / 8.5.16 BOSTON / 8.7.16 BOSTON/ 8.20.18 CHICAGO/ 9.2.18 BOSTON/ 9.4.18 BOSTON/ 9.18.21 ASBURY PARK
finally, FUCK TICKETMASTER0 -
angryyoungman wrote:yeah but what if you didnt live near camden, taking it to trial would be a logistical nightmare and im sure they are aware that is the case for alot of the people ticketed
Right, but the logistical nightmare is not the court's. It is on the people that have to go there. By going to Camden for the concert, you are placing yourself into the jurisdiction of the courts and police. It's the same as driving on another state's highways. If you don't show for your court date, it only hurts you (you get an arrest warrant).
Not defending the system. Just saying that you won't beat it unless you know the rules, and most people don't, and end up getting fucked.San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, [London 6/29/24], [Boston 9/15/24]0 -
wow..I agree with what someone said about getting the media involved...if there were that many people getting screwed, it shouldn't be hard to round up 10-15 of 'em to verify it (could prob be done here). I'd be interested to see what kind of response you got from the local media....this should be brought to other peoples' attention....you never know, could find a Clark Kent-type that wants to expose some police corruption...which could lead to some attention-seeking attorney getting involved for free on the class action, ending with the downfall of the Camden police chief, and a movie of the week
seriously....how do they get away with this? brazen mass-extortion...Is it really legal to just change a charge after the fact and then let people prove it wrong? At what point would you get to see some kind of evidence or police statement explaining the change in violation? You would think there would either be none...or something very flimsy.... Would it be that hard to get off, or plea down without a lawyer if they had no case?
my friends and I asked a cop if we could carry our beers over to a park near the Forum in Tampa, and he said no prob....In retrospect, I'm pretty fuckin relieved that it wasn't a scam like this :(0 -
I'm willing to bet someone at Fox29, 6ABC, CBS3, or NBC10 would love to hear more about this.For Rent0
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Lessons learned:
1) don't believe that a cop tells you something is OK to do even though you know it's illegal.
2) never go into court without a lawyer (it's worth it)
3) invest in plastic red cups0 -
jimc3 wrote:Lessons learned:
1) don't believe that a cop tells you something is OK to do even though you know it's illegal.
2) never go into court without a lawyer (it's worth it)
3) invest in plastic red cups
1) Agreed
2) If I had the money I agree
3) A lot of the people in court mentioned that they had their beer in cups. Apparently cups are illegal too if you are on the sidewalk.0 -
constructicon wrote:I'm willing to bet someone at Fox29, 6ABC, CBS3, or NBC10 would love to hear more about this.
I submitted information to all 4 tv stations and 2 of the local rock stations and the local radio news station. I was not ticketed. I need someone who was fined to PM me if you are willing to go public with quotes and any comments concerning this bullshit. We should not be used as roving slot machines for some corrupt local government. I know that ignorance of the law is no excuse. However, trumping up charges to increase revenues should not be condoned in any fashion. I would expect that kind of behavior in some third world country, not here.
peace
ken
don't forget to contact the mayor of Camden. Please inundate her with complaints. We owe it to all those that will attend concerts in Camden in the future not be abused in the future. Think about it, wouldn't you have appreciated being warned about this? mayor@ci.camden.nj.us
kcvLong time listener, first time caller0 -
pjroo3 wrote:1) Agreed
2) If I had the money I agree
3) A lot of the people in court mentioned that they had their beer in cups. Apparently cups are illegal too if you are on the sidewalk.
I meant #3 more as a joke...but as a general rule, I only drink in plastic cups and only very close to my car. I've been to Camden, Hartford, and tons of other sports and concert tailgates for over a decade and I've never had a problem.
my point is, everyone knows they're doing something they're not supposed to. just look out for #1, don't take unneccessary chances and and 99% of the time you'll be OK.0 -
jimc3 wrote:Lessons learned:
1) don't believe that a cop tells you something is OK to do even though you know it's illegal.
2) never go into court without a lawyer (it's worth it)
3) invest in plastic red cups
4) Never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 (#25) | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park 2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2025: Raleigh 20 -
Please email the mayor of Camden at mayor@ci.camden.nj.us
Here are some additional addresses to email.
NewsTips@KYW1060info.com
preston@WMMR.com
Philadelphia Inquirer
Yoni Greenbaum,
Executive Producer
215-575-6475
NBC 10
10 Monument Road
Bala Cynwyd, PA 19004
610 668 5510
CBS 3
1555 Hamilton Street
Philadelphia, PA 19130
Phone Numbers
Administrative Offices
215-977-5300
Newsroom
215-977-5333 (News)
215-233-3333 (Tips Only)
800-223-8477 (Toll-free)
215-977-5658 Fax
E-Mail Tips
Programming
215-977-5320
6abc WPVI-TV/DT
4100 City Avenue
Philadelphia, PA 19131
General Inquiries: (215) 878-9700 FAX: (215) 581-4530
News Tip Line: #6abc from your cellphone or (1-866-639-7749) 1-866-NEWS-SIX
FOX 29
330 Market Street
Philadelphia, PA 19106
(215) 925-2929 (Main Phone)
(215) 982-5494 (Fax)
(215) 982-5500 (News Desk)
Here is the first response that I got back from Jennifer at WYSP
This is UNBELIEVABLE! I can't understand how they can change the charge?.... And, IF the original charge was an inappropriate charge, shouldn't it just be thrown out altogether? Hmmmm....very weird. I will definitely spread the word. Unless I'm missing "something" here, this is absolutely ridiculous. I saw the public drinking going on in the parking lots with all the tailgating etc. And, I can understand them asking people to toss their beers on the way in, as you wouldn't want glass bottles or cans going into a venue like that, but writing tickets?! That's bullshit.
Yes, I will definitely spread the word.
Jennifer Reed
Afternoons, 3-7pm
94 WYSP, "Philly's Rock Station"
If anyone is in the Philadelphia area, please listen to Jennifer this afternoon and see if she says anything.
I also have a friend that makes skateboards for Jeff. I'm going to have him get this info to the band and let them know how their fans are being ripped off by the government of Camden.
Don't let anyone else get caught by this scam! Warn all your friends and email/tell everyone possible.
peace
KenLong time listener, first time caller0 -
TKD wrote:your in westchester?
Im from yonkers originally
living in monroe now
oh yeah...
GO GIANTS
I live in yonkers right now!!
originally from mt.kisco ,ny
go steelers0 -
easy solution..boycott camden/jersey shows....* Friends don't let friends use MP3 *0
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I'll be tailgating there next Saturday. And I'll let you guys know if I see anything weird, but like I said earlier I've never had any problems in 11 years there so I don't think anything will happen to me. - Busted down the pretext
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