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Concert scam by Camden Police
karmakvisser
Posts: 33
I was at the Pearl Jam concert in Camden NJ. We were in a private lot, 1000 yards from the venue. In the lot there was significant drinking going on. There were police about. A friend of mine approached a cop and asked if he could walk around with a beer. The cop responded that if he was 21, no problem.
An hour later we started to walk to the event, on a public road. There were 2 cops around the bend, issuing tickets for drinking in public. Luckily my wife had thrown her bottle away. My friend did not and was handed a $78 ticket, must appear in court. Technically he broke the law as it stands in NJ. I warned as many people as I could to trash their beers prior to walking over. Still, hundreds if not thousands were ticketed.
Now fast forward to my friend's court date. Here is his email of the event: "Well my court date was a complete nightmare. Turns out there were about 1000 other people there that were also at the Pearl Jam show. I would say 99% of the people in court. When we got there they called out our names individually and we had to go up to the prosecuter who told us our fine. Meanest woman I've ever been in contact with. Not rude to me, but out of hand with other people simply trying to ask her a question. Threatening to hold them in contempt of court for asking questions.
When I got up to her desk, she said the charge of "Drinking in Public" which had a fine of $78 had been amended and now the offense was "inapropriate behavior" which held a minimum fine of $500 up to $1000 with 60 days jail time. She said the court was recommending the $500 fine. If I were to plead "not guilty" they would set a trial date at a later time in which they would try and prosecute for the higher penalty. So... of course everyone at the courthouse pleads guilty and all people in attendance are to pay $500 + $33 in court costs.
I'm not sure how they were allowed to change the charge after the ticket had already been written. It went from $78 - $500 without anyone knowing until the day of court. A lot of us compared tickets and everyone I talked to had "drinking in public" written on their ticket as the penalty.
Whats kinda funny is the people who were under 21 (some looking 14 or 15) were charged with the same fine. I am 31 years old and I was having a beer. Now I'm out $533. Wow... Needless to say I was shocked. A lot of girls that were there were sobbing. What a day. Pretty scary how the law can pretty much do whatever they want. I guess they could have fined everyone $10,000 if they chose to. It is either pay your fine or go to jail. So people will pay any amount.
That was the 8:30AM court time.... They also have a 12:30PM court time which was probably filled up as well."
I don't understand how they can arbitrarily change the offense. There was no proof of his behavior. In fact, he wasn't witnessed drinking, nor was he drunk. He was merely carrying a beer.
This was obviously a revenue issue bordering on a government scam. And after seeing some of the poor neighborhoods in Camden, I'm sure they need as much revenue as possible. But then again, after hearing about all the corruption in the city government, I don't have too much faith that what is generated will go to much public good in the end.
To address issues like this or more importantly, make all tenclub members aware, we should start a thread on rules and regulations of specific concert sites. WE SHOULD NOT ALLOW OURSELVES AND THIS WONDERFUL COMMUNITY TO BE USED AS SLOT MACHINES TO FUND CORRUPT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS!
Any other experiences and thoughts out there?
peace
ken
An hour later we started to walk to the event, on a public road. There were 2 cops around the bend, issuing tickets for drinking in public. Luckily my wife had thrown her bottle away. My friend did not and was handed a $78 ticket, must appear in court. Technically he broke the law as it stands in NJ. I warned as many people as I could to trash their beers prior to walking over. Still, hundreds if not thousands were ticketed.
Now fast forward to my friend's court date. Here is his email of the event: "Well my court date was a complete nightmare. Turns out there were about 1000 other people there that were also at the Pearl Jam show. I would say 99% of the people in court. When we got there they called out our names individually and we had to go up to the prosecuter who told us our fine. Meanest woman I've ever been in contact with. Not rude to me, but out of hand with other people simply trying to ask her a question. Threatening to hold them in contempt of court for asking questions.
When I got up to her desk, she said the charge of "Drinking in Public" which had a fine of $78 had been amended and now the offense was "inapropriate behavior" which held a minimum fine of $500 up to $1000 with 60 days jail time. She said the court was recommending the $500 fine. If I were to plead "not guilty" they would set a trial date at a later time in which they would try and prosecute for the higher penalty. So... of course everyone at the courthouse pleads guilty and all people in attendance are to pay $500 + $33 in court costs.
I'm not sure how they were allowed to change the charge after the ticket had already been written. It went from $78 - $500 without anyone knowing until the day of court. A lot of us compared tickets and everyone I talked to had "drinking in public" written on their ticket as the penalty.
Whats kinda funny is the people who were under 21 (some looking 14 or 15) were charged with the same fine. I am 31 years old and I was having a beer. Now I'm out $533. Wow... Needless to say I was shocked. A lot of girls that were there were sobbing. What a day. Pretty scary how the law can pretty much do whatever they want. I guess they could have fined everyone $10,000 if they chose to. It is either pay your fine or go to jail. So people will pay any amount.
That was the 8:30AM court time.... They also have a 12:30PM court time which was probably filled up as well."
I don't understand how they can arbitrarily change the offense. There was no proof of his behavior. In fact, he wasn't witnessed drinking, nor was he drunk. He was merely carrying a beer.
This was obviously a revenue issue bordering on a government scam. And after seeing some of the poor neighborhoods in Camden, I'm sure they need as much revenue as possible. But then again, after hearing about all the corruption in the city government, I don't have too much faith that what is generated will go to much public good in the end.
To address issues like this or more importantly, make all tenclub members aware, we should start a thread on rules and regulations of specific concert sites. WE SHOULD NOT ALLOW OURSELVES AND THIS WONDERFUL COMMUNITY TO BE USED AS SLOT MACHINES TO FUND CORRUPT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS!
Any other experiences and thoughts out there?
peace
ken
Long time listener, first time caller
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This happens with traffic tickets too, even if the law is on your side, they don't care. I'd get a lawyer and fight, A lawyer has to be cheaper thean $500. At the very least, call the local news and try to get them to investigate. At least they can drag their names through the mud!
This is one reason for the life of me I can't imagine why anyone would vote Democrat. Every time you do, you vote for more government, more taxes, more control, more of this crap.
04/25/03 05/02/03 5/3/03 6/24/03 6/28/03 7/5/03 7/6/03 7/11/03 7/12/03 7/14/03
09/28/04 09/29/04 10/01/04 10/02/04
09/28/05 09/30/05 10/03/05
5/24/06 5/25/06 5/27/06 5/28/06 5/30/06 6/01/06 6/03/06 6/23/06 6/24/06 7/22/06 7/23/06
6/20/08 6/22/08 6/24/08 6/25/08
if you have the time to deal with it, i'd fight it all the way, total scam!!!
i will ONLY go see pearl jam there. Radiohead is coming in August; just can't do it. it truly is the worst place on earth.
i can't believe that happened! i was drinking with no issues there so this scares me that i could be out $500 i don't have!
And those misguided, There was a plan for them to be
Now you got both sides Claiming killing in Gods name
But God is nowhere,..... To be found, conveniently
What goes on?
it sucks too because its a great venue to see a show but couple this type of shit with some of the antics of people on the lawn and it can ruin your night
Pearl Jam needs to stop having concerts in Camden. I've been to dozens of venues across the US & Canada and have to say the one in Camden is the worst of all of them. It's tiny, has practically no lawn, horrible area, $12 beers, and the sound is shit.
I really don't understand why Radiohead is playing there when they are supposedly picky about playing venues that have good acoustics.
It's a toss up - a lawyer gonna cost you at least $500 unless you get a bunch of people for him/her to defend and work out a deal. So, you either pay the lawyer or pay the court. The problem with fighting it is, you're guilty.
Best way to not get in trouble with the law is to not break the law.
Those courts would grind to a halt if everyone refused to plead guilty and instead demanded a trial. They could have court for weeks straight and not get through all the trials.
If enough people refused and demanded a trial the prosecutor would have backed down and gave you a much better deal, if not the original charge.
They bluffed you guys and you all folded like wet cardboard boxes. Sheesh... don't you watch law and order
Yea, but I think the issue is that the charge changed. They were definitely drinking in public, but why change it to inappropriate behavior after the fact? The officer issuing the ticket obviously didn't think their behavior was inappropriate... I would definitely consult a lawyer and the very least.
$500 would pay for about 3 hours of a defense attorney's time. That's not going to get you very far. Pay the fine. Consider it a lesson learned - not about drinking in public, just definitely never trust a cop.
People have the power...stick together
steelers fan? me too..big time steelers fan in westchester county ny. glad to see another pj steeler fan on here.
The last time I checked government jobs have been increase at the same level if not more than that of the private sector during the Bush administration. Go ahead, continue to vote republican and you'll have a president that wants to continue this war and increase the troop levels. I have no issue with paying a little more taxes if it helps the middle and lower classes; the upper class can afford to pitch in and help out a little more rather than continuing to receive tax cuts as is the case under the current administration.
The initial discussion was based around a corrupt city, but you had to go and blame a whole poticial party for this issue.
Peace
Yeah, I can't wait till this fall
I can't wait until every fall!! (Lol)
summer sucks..is it september yet?
Oh yeah.... I'm never returning to Camden even if PJ is there
Born in the mid-mon valley home of champions
LA II 06, SB 06, SF III 06, Kokua 07 Ed and Jack, Grant Park 07, EV Berk1 & LA 1 (nice job 10c), 08 DC, MSG1 &2, VH1 rocks, EV Bos II, EV NYC I & II, Milwaukee, EV Maui, EV Hono I & II, Chicago 09 I & II, LA 09 I & II & IV, SD 09 (my girlfriend hit the lottery, best concert of my life 10C rocks)KC 2010, STL 2010, Hartford. Boston, and MSG I & II "who goes around skinning cats anyway", PJ 20 2011 , Portland, Spokane, Seattle LA 2013, Home Shows + Missoula (fatal 👌)
Now the Mann Music Center
LA II 06, SB 06, SF III 06, Kokua 07 Ed and Jack, Grant Park 07, EV Berk1 & LA 1 (nice job 10c), 08 DC, MSG1 &2, VH1 rocks, EV Bos II, EV NYC I & II, Milwaukee, EV Maui, EV Hono I & II, Chicago 09 I & II, LA 09 I & II & IV, SD 09 (my girlfriend hit the lottery, best concert of my life 10C rocks)KC 2010, STL 2010, Hartford. Boston, and MSG I & II "who goes around skinning cats anyway", PJ 20 2011 , Portland, Spokane, Seattle LA 2013, Home Shows + Missoula (fatal 👌)
Doesn't the military count as a government job? Government jobs aren't bad... like if you picked up trash for the city.... that is a government job. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about more goverment programs designed to "help me". People shouldn't be looking to the government for help, they should be looking in the mirror. I'd rather pitch in some extra money for the military to keep the wars off of our shores, than pay someone's welfare check.
It is literally impossible to "vote republican" this election with John McCain Running... the man in a RINO! You have to be able to look past the "R" next to his name and realize how liberal he is. At least he has experience and is a war hero. Not that I would vote "Republican" anyway, I vote "conservative". Just so happens that as liberal as McCain is, I'd take him any day over the Marxist Obama. Sounds like you are all for redistribution of wealth (socialist) though, so Obama must be your man. You keep pulling that "D" lever, and watch gas prices double again, like they did when Nancy Pelosi and the Dems took over congress in 2006.
But let's leave that behind and get back to the original topic. We could argue forever, and you are never going to realize that you are wrong. And I don't want to get ganged up on by a bunch of people that would vote for a turd sandwich if Eddie Vedder endorsed it.... So Let's drop it..... I'm sorry for blaming an entire political party for Camden being corrupt.... but just for giggles, what do you think the blue/red ratio is in Camden? 97% blue?
04/25/03 05/02/03 5/3/03 6/24/03 6/28/03 7/5/03 7/6/03 7/11/03 7/12/03 7/14/03
09/28/04 09/29/04 10/01/04 10/02/04
09/28/05 09/30/05 10/03/05
5/24/06 5/25/06 5/27/06 5/28/06 5/30/06 6/01/06 6/03/06 6/23/06 6/24/06 7/22/06 7/23/06
6/20/08 6/22/08 6/24/08 6/25/08
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
That's what I said in the other thread. been going to shows there since 97 and never had a problem.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13