Another shooting at a school.
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Oh god... we sort of knew this, but seeing names an ages makes it even harder... All of the kids were 6 or 7 years old.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/12/15/c ... P0.twitter
I didn't want to cry again today at work...My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln0 -
I can't think of one logical argument against any of these. Can you?
What would ‘meaningful action’ on gun control look like?
Posted by Sarah Kliff on December 15, 2012 at 2:58 pm
In his national address late Friday, President Obama promised “meaningful action” in the wake of the Newton school shooting. The statement left many wondering whether that would entail a push for new gun-control laws. If it does, the White House would have a number of options: One study estimates there are more than 20,000 laws regulating gun ownership already in place.
Advocacy groups and think tanks have worked through a number of proposals they think could reduce gun violence in the United States. Here are a few that have received the most serious consideration.
More extensive background checks. The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, passed in 1993, mandated federal background checks on individual firearms from a registered firearms seller. Between 1994 and 2007, federal data show 1.6 million gun sales were blocked by background checks, half due to felony convictions.
Gun control advocates say that there’s a big loophole here: Unlicensed gun sellers do not have to conduct the background checks. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms estimated in 1999 that about a quarter of the sellers at gun shows are unlicensed, noting that “some unlicensed vendors replenish and subsequently dispose of their inventories within a matter of days, often at the same show.” Some studies estimate that about 40 percent of gun sales are made by unlicensed sellers.
Gun control supporters like the Brady campaign have pushed for national legislation that would require everyone to undergo such background checks. Rep. Carolyn McCarty (D-NY) introduced one bill, the Fix Gun Checks Act of 2011, that extends ”Brady Act background check procedures to unlicensed transferors and transferees of firearms.”
Research on whether this would reduce gun violence is, according to a CDC literature review, “inconsistent.”
“Some studies indicated decreases in violence associated with restrictions, and others indicated increases,” the CDC study concluded. “One study indicated a statistically significant reduction in the rate of suicide by firearms among persons aged >55 years; however, the reduction in suicide by all methods was not statistically significant.”
Ban certain types of firearms. Between 1994 and 2004, the United States had a federal assault weapons ban, which prohibited the manufacturing of semi-automatic weapons for civilian use. That law had a sunset provision and lapsed during President George W. Bush’s presidency. Congressional attempts to reauthorize the law have never received a floor vote.
Local governments have also tried banning specific types of firearms, most notably the District of Columbia’s handgun ban, which the Supreme Court overturned in 2008 as violating the Second Amendment.
A study by the Department of Justice found that, after the ban, the share of gun crimes declined by 17 to 72 percent across the cities they studied (Baltimore, Miami, Milwaukee, Boston, St. Louis, and Anchorage). That decline, however, was largely offset by increased use of “large-capacity magazines,” firearms that hold 30 or more rounds of ammunition. Those manufactured prior to 1994 were exempt to from the law.
“The failure to reduce LCM [large capacity magazine] use has likely been due to the immense stock of exempted pre-ban magazines, which has been enhanced by recent imports,” the authors conclude.
An Australian gun reform law in 1996, which took pre-ban guns off the market as well, looks to have had more striking effects. Researchers in the British Medical Journal write that it was “followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides.”
Increase waiting periods. A handful of states have established waiting periods for obtaining a firearm, some lasting as long as two weeks (and some as short as two days). The idea is to create a “cool-down” period for the potential gun buyer. The federal government could, via legislation, set up a similar, national waiting period.
Researchers looked at the Brady Act’s five-day waiting period, which was in place 1994 through 1998, when it was eliminated by instantaneous background checks. Publishing in the Journal of the American Medical Association, they found the waiting periods to be “associated with reductions in the firearm suicide rate for persons aged 55 years or older but not with reductions in homicide rates or overall suicide rates.”
Increase public health funding. Researchers have recently begun to look at public health approaches to reducing gun violence. CureViolence, a Chicago-based non-profit, uses outreach workers to try an interrupt gun violence, much like public health workers attempt to stop the transmission of disease. Their initial work has shown some success: A recent intervention in Baltimore led to a 54 percent reduction in homicides in one of the city’s most violent neighborhoods.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... look-like/My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln0 -
blackredyellow wrote:I can't think of one logical argument against any of these. Can you?
What would ‘meaningful action’ on gun control look like?
Posted by Sarah Kliff on December 15, 2012 at 2:58 pm
In his national address late Friday, President Obama promised “meaningful action” in the wake of the Newton school shooting. The statement left many wondering whether that would entail a push for new gun-control laws. If it does, the White House would have a number of options: One study estimates there are more than 20,000 laws regulating gun ownership already in place.
Advocacy groups and think tanks have worked through a number of proposals they think could reduce gun violence in the United States. Here are a few that have received the most serious consideration.
More extensive background checks. The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, passed in 1993, mandated federal background checks on individual firearms from a registered firearms seller. Between 1994 and 2007, federal data show 1.6 million gun sales were blocked by background checks, half due to felony convictions.
Gun control advocates say that there’s a big loophole here: Unlicensed gun sellers do not have to conduct the background checks. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms estimated in 1999 that about a quarter of the sellers at gun shows are unlicensed, noting that “some unlicensed vendors replenish and subsequently dispose of their inventories within a matter of days, often at the same show.” Some studies estimate that about 40 percent of gun sales are made by unlicensed sellers.
Gun control supporters like the Brady campaign have pushed for national legislation that would require everyone to undergo such background checks. Rep. Carolyn McCarty (D-NY) introduced one bill, the Fix Gun Checks Act of 2011, that extends ”Brady Act background check procedures to unlicensed transferors and transferees of firearms.”
Research on whether this would reduce gun violence is, according to a CDC literature review, “inconsistent.”
“Some studies indicated decreases in violence associated with restrictions, and others indicated increases,” the CDC study concluded. “One study indicated a statistically significant reduction in the rate of suicide by firearms among persons aged >55 years; however, the reduction in suicide by all methods was not statistically significant.”
Ban certain types of firearms. Between 1994 and 2004, the United States had a federal assault weapons ban, which prohibited the manufacturing of semi-automatic weapons for civilian use. That law had a sunset provision and lapsed during President George W. Bush’s presidency. Congressional attempts to reauthorize the law have never received a floor vote.
Local governments have also tried banning specific types of firearms, most notably the District of Columbia’s handgun ban, which the Supreme Court overturned in 2008 as violating the Second Amendment.
A study by the Department of Justice found that, after the ban, the share of gun crimes declined by 17 to 72 percent across the cities they studied (Baltimore, Miami, Milwaukee, Boston, St. Louis, and Anchorage). That decline, however, was largely offset by increased use of “large-capacity magazines,” firearms that hold 30 or more rounds of ammunition. Those manufactured prior to 1994 were exempt to from the law.
“The failure to reduce LCM [large capacity magazine] use has likely been due to the immense stock of exempted pre-ban magazines, which has been enhanced by recent imports,” the authors conclude.
An Australian gun reform law in 1996, which took pre-ban guns off the market as well, looks to have had more striking effects. Researchers in the British Medical Journal write that it was “followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides.”
Increase waiting periods. A handful of states have established waiting periods for obtaining a firearm, some lasting as long as two weeks (and some as short as two days). The idea is to create a “cool-down” period for the potential gun buyer. The federal government could, via legislation, set up a similar, national waiting period.
Researchers looked at the Brady Act’s five-day waiting period, which was in place 1994 through 1998, when it was eliminated by instantaneous background checks. Publishing in the Journal of the American Medical Association, they found the waiting periods to be “associated with reductions in the firearm suicide rate for persons aged 55 years or older but not with reductions in homicide rates or overall suicide rates.”
Increase public health funding. Researchers have recently begun to look at public health approaches to reducing gun violence. CureViolence, a Chicago-based non-profit, uses outreach workers to try an interrupt gun violence, much like public health workers attempt to stop the transmission of disease. Their initial work has shown some success: A recent intervention in Baltimore led to a 54 percent reduction in homicides in one of the city’s most violent neighborhoods.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... look-like/
Well.
I mean, there's the COST of them.
but sure ... go ahead and do them.
I have no qualms on the face with any of them.
But know this.
The killer in this last shooting was more than likely a "psychopath" ... a personality disorder not even properly recognized by DSM, with no general consensus on symptoms or diagnoses ... that most people DO agree is VERY hard to predict or diagnose ... and the guy had no criminal record. AND HE DIDN'T BUY THE GUNS. And they were owned prior to any legislation that you would have enacted, so are therefore legal. AND, even if it wasn't, and he didn't yet own it, he could get it over the internet VERY EASILY with no tracking\tracing via "the deep internet", a "tor browser" and a pretty cursory knowledge of how to surf the web after that.
So enact ALL of those.
This would have still happened.
Period.
Not pissing on your cheerios.
Being realistic.
Something that is sorely lacked around here.
We all feel horrible about this.
Some of us just choose to THINK as well as gut-emotion react.If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?0 -
DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
Well.
I mean, there's the COST of them.
but sure ... go ahead and do them.
I have no qualms on the face with any of them.
But know this.
The killer in this last shooting was more than likely a "psychopath" ... a personality disorder not even properly recognized by DSM, with no general consensus on symptoms or diagnoses ... that most people DO agree is VERY hard to predict or diagnose ... and the guy had no criminal record. AND HE DIDN'T BUY THE GUNS. And they were owned prior to any legislation that you would have enacted, so are therefore legal. AND, even if it wasn't, and he didn't yet own it, he could get it over the internet VERY EASILY with no tracking\tracing via "the deep internet", a "tor browser" and a pretty cursory knowledge of how to surf the web after that.
So enact ALL of those.
This would have still happened.
Period.
Not pissing on your cheerios.
Being realistic.
Something that is sorely lacked around here.
We all feel horrible about this.
Some of us just choose to THINK as well as gut-emotion react.
I don't disagree with that at all.. And especially since 2004, the cat is a bit out of the bag with the number of assault rifles and high capacity magazines out there.
If we can stop the sale of semi automatic weapons and large clips (not just newly made ones like the assault weapons ban did), it will make it harder for people to get these weapons in the future.
There will always be avid gun collectors/traders out there, and the vast majority of them are harmless. These guns will eventually be out of circulation as these people will hold on to them.
It will make it harder for a 20 year old socially awkward kid, or a guy like the Aurora shooter who was by several accounts, a "bit off", or in this case, middle aged suburban mom to get these weapons.
Nothing will prevent this type of thing, but as the years pass, it will get harder and harder to find weapons like this, and maybe we can avoid some of these horrific situations from happening.My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln0 -
this is just so fucked up. the dark energy that created all of this is not done. it will happen again & again unless we all work together and show some fucking love towards one another.
fact is our children are at risk by simply attending school. fuck it... schools will become secure like prisons. razor wire fencing, armed guards, buzzer doors, & doors with codes. this means schools will either get smaller or larger.
im all for a tiny one room school house out in the woods somewhere. but then ya look back and even a amish have shot up kids and teacher and whomever else was at that little one room school in amish country.
tonight like last-night i have candles & oil lamps aglow as well as both buddhist & hindu monks chanting. this is relaxation & tranquility for me during such rough times as these.
last-night on repeat on the stereo... chanting monks. and nag champa incense been burning for days nowfor poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce0 -
Zoso wrote:petejm043 wrote:Zoso wrote:the most annoying statement I have heard today 'I'm a gun owner but I'm not violent".. well either was this guy before yesterday! He didn't have a record either.. These people that do this type of things aren't career criiminals or gang members so that argument doesn't hold water at all because a person with a background check that gets denied a gun because of their record aren't the people that do this...
Adam Lanza could have said the same thing after the movie theatre shooting this year....
So all gun owners are violent people? Is that what you are saying? I am a gun owner and I am outraged by what happened yesterday. The events yesterday are beyond sick...but to point the finger at gun ownership is the easy way out.
obviously not saying that.... I'm saying that how do you vet a person like the gunman yesterday who had NEVER had a record or any inclination to be a mass murderer.. so when people say 'I'm a gun owner, but I'm not viokent'.. doesn't make sense because most of the mass murderers haven't ever been in trouble. I don't think EVERY gun owner is violent.
I'm sure that not every gun owner is a violent person. However, every gun owner sees violence as an answer.
Browsing Facebook today, I see there are people (former high school classmates. Figures.) posting in support of more guns. :roll:
I'm sure there are slews of people from towns like my hometown - filled with a high percentage of non-college educated citizens employed by the military-industrial complex - who think that more people should be armed in order to prevent another tragedy like yesterday's.
The Atlantic has an interesting article on 'The Geography of U.S. Gun Violence'
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighb ... ence/4171/
"Still, the consistency of our findings across metro and state levels strongly suggest that gun violence is not just the product of troubled or deranged individuals, as is commonly portrayed, but is both associated with and embedded within the economic and social context of places. Whether looking at the state or metro level, we find strikingly consistent associations between gun violence and key markers of socio-economic disadvantage — poverty, income, education, class, and race."I carried a watermelon0 -
Closed for review.Falling down,...not staying down0
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