Obamacare sucks

Zoso · October 2012

Cosmo wrote:

whygohome wrote:

Well stated.
Expanding a market is capitalism. This is what the individual mandate does; this is what the health insurance exchanges do.
And (if all goes well :? ) this could relieve the strain on businesses that feel it is a "burden" to offer their employees health insurance. In the end though, I doubt these employees will see enough of an income boost to feel it is a win-win for them. Not with CEOs making the money they make and not with the imbalance of the top controlling all the wealth.

..
Also... wouldn't it be a relief if your access to health care was not tied to your employer? The way it was.. we were all one pink slip away from losing our affordable health care insurance along with the loss of our paychecks.

it's not tied to employer's in countries like England, New Zealand & Australia (not sure about Canada) and NO one accuses the government of being socialist it's just a better system. You could be a janitor or a lawyer and guaranteed health insurance. Gotta love that.

cincybearcat · October 2012

Great, another pledge. Good times. :roll:

pandora · October 2012

Cosmo wrote:

No matter how you try to spin it... everything you are saying is that the money would have been better spent on helping a father working two jobs than saving the live of this man.
I see it differently. I see it as a case where a great nation saved the life of a dying man.. and didn't give a shit about his national origin or citizenship. We just saw him as a dying man that could be and has been saved.

Funny cause I see it both ways not one way.
And we can have it both ways but not for long.

This the point, why I bitch...
you have no solutions and your reality will be the fall of this country.

I also find it less than funny your attacks on my character...
but I grow accustomed remember your moral compass is no better than
mine or others. :fp:

And I find it very much less than funny that now candidates can not even address
our immigration troubles for fear of losing votes.
Something should have been done a decade ago because now we see the results
of millions of extra people on our drained social services,
our hospitals, our fire and police, our education, our aid.
We are going bankrupt to boot!

What will it be like for our children? How high will the deficit climb?
How low will the quality of life go? When will the fall come?
Perhaps in your time Cosmo.

Please put your money where your mouth is and give that
little extra you and others have to give. Did I miss you addressing this solution?
the capable supplementing, providing sponsorship for those
who come here illegally.

You can help pay for those from your pocket
because many people can not afford this,
they are hurting providing for their own families.

This can offset those who can not, like the American Dad
working two jobs though getting pushed into poverty
while paying for others debt and being penalized with extra taxes
for not being able to afford our President's insurance plan.

pandora · October 2012

Cosmo wrote:

whygohome wrote:

Well stated.
Expanding a market is capitalism. This is what the individual mandate does; this is what the health insurance exchanges do.
And (if all goes well :? ) this could relieve the strain on businesses that feel it is a "burden" to offer their employees health insurance. In the end though, I doubt these employees will see enough of an income boost to feel it is a win-win for them. Not with CEOs making the money they make and not with the imbalance of the top controlling all the wealth.

..
Also... wouldn't it be a relief if your access to health care was not tied to your employer? The way it was.. we were all one pink slip away from losing our affordable health care insurance along with the loss of our paychecks.

Really now you want to let corporations/ business off the hook for benefits?
Why?

So the big business makes even more money while the little people are taxed more.

And business is taxed because they take the penalty instead of providing
the insurance.

So just a whole lot more tax and we know what government does with that ...
it spends more foolishly not wisely or frugally.

pandora · October 2012

Nittany1bn wrote:

pandora wrote:

The support I hear for Obamacare always returns to insurance companies
refusing coverage or preexisting conditions.

Why could the government not have passed a bill to handle this fairly
requiring insurance companies to accept these people
instead of requiring and forcing every American and every business
to enroll in our Presidents plan or be punished monetarily if they choose not to?

Because that was the trade-off the government made with the insurance companies, their compensation for accepting higher risk enrollees is 30+million new customers. Just like the insurance companies demanded the inclusion of birth control to all policies as a trade off for keeping dependent children covered on their parents policies longer, free birth control=less children=lower costs for the insurance providers. The right sees the bill as socialist, but it's actually pro big business (insurance companies)

I would rather see it socialist with free hospitals.

Insurance companies = legalized organized crime

Cosmo · October 2012

pandora wrote:

Funny cause I see it both ways not one way.
And we can have it both ways but not for long.

This the point, why I bitch...
you have no solutions and your reality will be the fall of this country.

I also find it less than funny your attacks on my character...
but I grow accustomed remember your moral compass is no better than
mine or others. :fp:

And I find it very much less than funny that now candidates can not even address
our immigration troubles for fear of losing votes.
Something should have been done a decade ago because now we see the results
of millions of extra people on our drained social services,
our hospitals, our fire and police, our education, our aid.
We are going bankrupt to boot!

What will it be like for our children? How high will the deficit climb?
How low will the quality of life go? When will the fall come?
Perhaps in your time Cosmo.

Please put your money where your mouth is and give that
little extra you and others have to give. Did I miss you addressing this solution?
the capable supplementing, providing sponsorship for those
who come here illegally.

You can help pay for those from your pocket
because many people can not afford this,
they are hurting providing for their own families.

This can offset those who can not, like the American Dad
working two jobs though getting pushed into poverty
while paying for others debt and being penalized with extra taxes
for not being able to afford our President's insurance plan.

..
Again... NOTHING to do with your posting of an anecdotal example other than baiting to get me into a circular debate with no foundation in fact nor reasoning.
Sorry, but, I'm going to take a pass on that one and let you believe anything you want about me.

Cosmo · October 2012

pandora wrote:

Really now you want to let corporations/ business off the hook for benefits?
Why?

So the big business makes even more money while the little people are taxed more.

And business is taxed because they take the penalty instead of providing
the insurance.

So just a whole lot more tax and we know what government does with that ...
it spends more foolishly not wisely or frugally.

...
Bait.
Smells like shit. I ain't takin' it.

The Fixer · October 2012

funny that the pro-obamacare crowd here all ignored this question. Too busy promoting a classless society where everyone begins and ends on an even playing field. Life don't work that way (nor should it).

How ironic is it that obama promotes an increase of domestic jobs and production...and his policies are not only contradictory, but paradoxical to his desired outcome?

Cosmo · October 2012

The Fixer wrote:

funny that the pro-obamacare crowd here all ignored this question. Too busy promoting a classless society where everyone begins and ends on an even playing field. Life don't work that way (nor should it).

How ironic is it that obama promotes an increase of domestic jobs and production...and his policies are not only contradictory, but paradoxical to his desired outcome?

...
What question?
Is it this question?
"How ironic is it that obama promotes an increase of domestic jobs and production...and his policies are not only contradictory, but paradoxical to his desired outcome?"
Because I cannot answer how ironic something is... if not provided more specifics on how it is ironic.

keeponrockin · October 2012

I'm sorry, what was your question?

BinFrog · October 2012

The Fixer wrote:

How ironic is it that obama promotes an increase of domestic jobs and production...and his policies are not only contradictory, but paradoxical to his desired outcome?

Name one piece of Obama's policy that "proves" this point. One.

* bonus point for doing so without quoting Fox News.

redrock · October 2012

Edit: Forget it... circular discussion again....

EdsonNascimento · October 2012

keeponrockin wrote:

I'm sorry, what was your question?

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Ok. I won't ask you to answer my entire post. But, can you tell me about how it will "bend the cost curve?"

How about the above question?

The Fixer · October 2012

BinFrog wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

How ironic is it that obama promotes an increase of domestic jobs and production...and his policies are not only contradictory, but paradoxical to his desired outcome?

Name one piece of Obama's policy that "proves" this point. One.

* bonus point for doing so without quoting Fox News.

When attempting intelligent conversations with liberals why is it always the same shit?

1 - Fox news (which no one against obamacare mentioned here)
2 - Constant deflecting of blame for obama's lack of effectiveness during his first term. 'He was left with such a disaster'. Fucking cry me a river. He must be the best god damned president we have ever had because things never seem to be his fault

Both are old and tired. Try something else.

To answer your question....read the OP. Obamacare has led to job cuts and shipment of domestic labor overseas, both of which are a paradox of what he is promoting during his campaign.

I wish that just once liberals would own their party's shortcomings without pointing the finger or bringing up certain media outlets. Instead all I seem to hear and see is how entitled they are to govt assistance, help from the 'rich', and excuses.

Cosmo · October 2012

The Fixer wrote:

To answer your question....read the OP. Obamacare has led to job cuts and shipment of domestic labor overseas, both of which are a paradox of what he is promoting during his campaign.

...
That issue has already been addressed.
I asked how much does all of that have to do with the cmpany itself? When faced with increased liabilities in taxes, the company chooses to cut loose employees and go for cheaper labor markets overseas. What does that tell you about the company and it's loyalty to its employees? The same goes to the company that moves it operations overseas to avoid paying taxes in a country that helped to build it and gain its wealth.
Go over some of the other responses... this issue have been discussed.

whygohome · October 2012

Cosmo wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

To answer your question....read the OP. Obamacare has led to job cuts and shipment of domestic labor overseas, both of which are a paradox of what he is promoting during his campaign.

...
That issue has already been addressed.
I asked how much does all of that have to do with the cmpany itself? When faced with increased liabilities in taxes, the company chooses to cut loose employees and go for cheaper labor markets overseas. What does that tell you about the company and it's loyalty to its employees? The same goes to the company that moves it operations overseas to avoid paying taxes in a country that helped to build it and gain its wealth.
Go over some of the other responses... this issue have been discussed.

No Cosmo, it is ALL because of Obamacare. Are you unaware that outsourcing began in January 2009? That the recession began the same time as well? After all God aka Rush Limbaugh, called the recession the "Obama Recession" in November 2008.

Taxes are such a huge "burden" in this country, what else is there to do?
Have some sympathy for the CEOs; they have to put food on the table too, so why not take it from their former employees?

p.s. Is it taxes, or is it cheap slave labor that attracts the multimillionaire CEOs? I forget.

The Fixer · October 2012

Cosmo wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

To answer your question....read the OP. Obamacare has led to job cuts and shipment of domestic labor overseas, both of which are a paradox of what he is promoting during his campaign.

...
That issue has already been addressed.
I asked how much does all of that have to do with the cmpany itself? When faced with increased liabilities in taxes, the company chooses to cut loose employees and go for cheaper labor markets overseas. What does that tell you about the company and it's loyalty to its employees? The same goes to the company that moves it operations overseas to avoid paying taxes in a country that helped to build it and gain its wealth.
Go over some of the other responses... this issue have been discussed.

every company has a model in place in order to make a profit. If you increase the cost of doing business you have to cut costs. It's really not difficult

The Fixer · October 2012

whygohome wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

To answer your question....read the OP. Obamacare has led to job cuts and shipment of domestic labor overseas, both of which are a paradox of what he is promoting during his campaign.

...
That issue has already been addressed.
I asked how much does all of that have to do with the cmpany itself? When faced with increased liabilities in taxes, the company chooses to cut loose employees and go for cheaper labor markets overseas. What does that tell you about the company and it's loyalty to its employees? The same goes to the company that moves it operations overseas to avoid paying taxes in a country that helped to build it and gain its wealth.
Go over some of the other responses... this issue have been discussed.

No Cosmo, it is ALL because of Obamacare. Are you unaware that outsourcing began in January 2009? That the recession began the same time as well? After all God aka Rush Limbaugh, called the recession the "Obama Recession" in November 2008.

Taxes are such a huge "burden" in this country, what else is there to do?
Have some sympathy for the CEOs; they have to put food on the table too, so why not take it from their former employees?

p.s. Is it taxes, or is it cheap slave labor that attracts the multimillionaire CEOs? I forget.

you're all over the place dude. let's make a concerted effort to stay on topic here. if you try really hard I'm confident you can do it

the excise tax mentioned in the OP is part of obamacare. hence the moving of labor overseas. but again, I'm sure it's not obama's fault. nothing ever is

Cosmo · October 2012

The Fixer wrote:

every company has a model in place in order to make a profit. If you increase the cost of doing business you have to cut costs. It's really not difficult

...
So, there you have it... you have answered your own question. It is the company that decides how it faces increases in operating expenses... it pulls anchor and sails off to China.

whygohome · October 2012

The Fixer wrote:

you're all over the place dude. let's make a concerted effort to stay on topic here. if you try really hard I'm confident you can do it

the excise tax mentioned in the OP is part of obamacare. hence the moving of labor overseas. but again, I'm sure it's not obama's fault. nothing ever is

The excise tax in an industry that makes obscene profits. Do you know anyone in the medical device sales or pharmaceutical sales industry? The amount of markup on these devices, and the amount of money wasted on taking doctors golfing, out to lunch, etc., is staggering. And, that is part of the reason for the high costs of healthcare.
So, if they want to bitch and whine over a 2.3% tax while people in this country have trouble paying their healthcare bills, or simply go bankrupt due to them, or get coerced into being tested--how doctors make a lot of money, instead of being treated, they can bitch and whine. The truth is that they are selfish and greedy and have one thing in mind: $$$$.

As for me being all over the place, it's called a joke. And this comment, "if you try really hard I'm confident you can do it" is one you would never make if we were having a face to face discussion. it's easy being a tough guy when you are on a band's message board. but, I don't expect much from someone from Philly, "tough guy" capital of the world. Go back to Broad Street.

Obamacare sucks

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