If Drugs were legalized tomorrow what would happen?

kenny olav · July 2012

your move now wrote:

kenny olav wrote:

If it grows in the ground, it should be legal, but I don't think anyone should profit from selling it. It should just be free to grow and use and distribute to adults. It shouldn't be sold at all.

All other drugs should remain criminalized, but users shouldn't be put in jail.

why is natural more important to legalise than chemical? I would have though in terms of controlling the substance and making drug problems a medical issue rather than a legal one it would be the other way around. It is the chemical drugs that can be full of all sorts of scary shit which wouldn't be in them if they were legal and controlled substances

You make a fair point about the scary shit that can be in chemical drugs. But are we going to have crystal meth sold at the neighborhood drugstore? Some drugs are just scary to begin with. But if some chemical drugs can be proven to be safe, then I'd have to say okay.

your move now · July 2012

well what's safe? and more to the point to you think that they're hard to get as it is?
Some things aren't safe (including cigarettes) and we can't make them safe. We can ensure they aren't cut with glass

pandora · July 2012

The lawmakers, whom are our representatives doing what we ask them to do,
their role is to inform, protect and regulate that which is dangerous to people and
society.

MayDay10's moderation guide is good common sense
and I very much agree with moderation, I would think most would.

The same common sense can tell us what substances are highly dangerous and
should not be legal.

There isn't anything much more dangerous than crystal meth to the human body.
It is highly additive, working quickly against the user, deteriorating body and mind.

I noticed it was not included it in the moderation substances not sure if that was an oversight.
From an earlier post, I would lean towards no that was not an oversight,
rightfully so from what I have witnessed.

Ridiculous notion to make this drug legal,
this the problem with the idea of all drugs legal.
Some should never be legal ...
like the bath salts, that is a tragedy waiting to happen, not only to the user / abuser
but to the innocent bystanders.

There are always innocent bystanders in substance use/abuse...
the direct effect of those in contact with the user / abuser
and that which takes place over time with the next generations,
we are making future societies now.

The path of our society one would hope would be towards good health,
not condoning the use of deadly dangerous products by excepting them into
our future societies, as has been done with cigs and alcohol.

The difference between cigs and alcohol over meth is
there is no moderation with highly addictive drugs for most users ...
why we are debating this subject in the first place.

pandora · July 2012

mikepegg44 wrote:

pandora wrote:

I find it funny cause some of the same people wanting all drugs legal
want rigorous smoking bans
dare they might breathe a bit of second smoke while walking down the street.
Yet the high pup on legal bathsalts welding a knife is okay in their book.

When people use drugs they make victims from their use everyday
everywhere whether legal or not. Victims of the use victims of the abuse.

I wonder if cigarettes would have been illegal how many would not be dying
that horrible, slow, painful death as we speak. If a different message had been sent
to our society so many generations ago.

Dropping like flies they are the smoking generation.
Unable to breathe, missing their grandchildren's lives, them missing
their grandparents. Parents gone too soon to the cancer stick.

Oh but that's ok that was their choice ... bet not for most gasping their last breath.

Yet this argument those who want all drugs legal use... cigs are legal
alcohol is legal...

Would we have a better world if they weren't?
All the families mourning their innocent dead due to DUI's,
all the innocent families broken due to alcoholism.

Having cigs and alcohol legal changed many lives in the last century,

they became a norm for social behavior
for much of society as will legalizing all drugs.

They are a perfect example of the use and abuse that will take place
just because they are legal.

A bit late to make cigs and alcohol illegal and we see what that has done to our society.
This is an important time, a turning point perhaps in the human race
where healthy may finally become the norm to work towards.

Do we want to send a message like

hey meth is great ... it's legal try it?
Cocaine, cool man, have some fun don't worry about addiction
that only happens to the other guy.
Shoot up now ...enjoy! Life sucks make it go away!

The message to send is don't do every drug known to man and then make some more
Don't take 20 prescriptions your doctor has prescribed for you so you can live 5 years longer
Don't run to the doc with every imagined symptom for a pill :wtf:

The answer is not in a pill nor getting fucked up it's caring about others
outside our own bodies
and yes being an example for all our children, they are our best hope.

I loved the drama and hyperbole in your post, but you didn't answer the main question

what would happen if drugs were legal tomorrow?

I don't know if anyone knows for sure, but you must have an opinion...I assume it will have something to do with kids dying in the streets at age 4 with a needle in their arm...

where as I would simply point to the recent country that tried decrim and say this may be a likely scenario but it is tough to say as the difference between legalization and decrim can be large in some ways...I think we can all agree that jail time for drug users ending would be a good thing...

Have you become an antagonistic poster?

You did not address any of my points nor questions yet quoted me and made a ridiculous
insinuation of what I would think would happen.

I personally thought you were above this ...guess not, incredibly disappointing.

mikepegg44 · July 2012

pandora wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

pandora wrote:

I find it funny cause some of the same people wanting all drugs legal
want rigorous smoking bans
dare they might breathe a bit of second smoke while walking down the street.
Yet the high pup on legal bathsalts welding a knife is okay in their book.

When people use drugs they make victims from their use everyday
everywhere whether legal or not. Victims of the use victims of the abuse.

I wonder if cigarettes would have been illegal how many would not be dying
that horrible, slow, painful death as we speak. If a different message had been sent
to our society so many generations ago.

Dropping like flies they are the smoking generation.
Unable to breathe, missing their grandchildren's lives, them missing
their grandparents. Parents gone too soon to the cancer stick.

Oh but that's ok that was their choice ... bet not for most gasping their last breath.

Yet this argument those who want all drugs legal use... cigs are legal
alcohol is legal...

Would we have a better world if they weren't?
All the families mourning their innocent dead due to DUI's,
all the innocent families broken due to alcoholism.

Having cigs and alcohol legal changed many lives in the last century,

they became a norm for social behavior
for much of society as will legalizing all drugs.

They are a perfect example of the use and abuse that will take place
just because they are legal.

A bit late to make cigs and alcohol illegal and we see what that has done to our society.
This is an important time, a turning point perhaps in the human race
where healthy may finally become the norm to work towards.

Do we want to send a message like

hey meth is great ... it's legal try it?
Cocaine, cool man, have some fun don't worry about addiction
that only happens to the other guy.
Shoot up now ...enjoy! Life sucks make it go away!

The message to send is don't do every drug known to man and then make some more
Don't take 20 prescriptions your doctor has prescribed for you so you can live 5 years longer
Don't run to the doc with every imagined symptom for a pill :wtf:

The answer is not in a pill nor getting fucked up it's caring about others
outside our own bodies
and yes being an example for all our children, they are our best hope.

I loved the drama and hyperbole in your post, but you didn't answer the main question

what would happen if drugs were legal tomorrow?

I don't know if anyone knows for sure, but you must have an opinion...I assume it will have something to do with kids dying in the streets at age 4 with a needle in their arm...

where as I would simply point to the recent country that tried decrim and say this may be a likely scenario but it is tough to say as the difference between legalization and decrim can be large in some ways...I think we can all agree that jail time for drug users ending would be a good thing...

Have you become an antagonistic poster?

You did not address any of my points nor questions yet quoted me and made a ridiculous
insinuation of what I would think would happen.

I personally thought you were above this ...guess not, incredibly disappointing.

Not antagonizing...you need to realize that constantly posting about the children is annoying and obfuscates the discussion with stuff that doesn't matter.
just pointing out that after a number of opportunities you still have not answered the question. instead you have continued to spout off the same rhetoric that is constant...protecting the kids, blah, blah, blah...you haven't answered the question...what would happen?
I have addressed your points, numerous people have addressed your points time and again, and shown that criminal punishment for drug use is not nearly as successful as education and treatment options and yet you want to keep things illegal to even end users because you are afraid that some American kid will die because of a choice they made. You use some bastardized statistic about brain development to try and prove your point and you are wrong about that too...I have addressed this to a pointless end...what you feel you feel and no one is going to change that...do I think it is better if people don't do drugs...yes I do...is it my right to tell them they can't...no. Pretty simple. When you use the legal system to control behaviors pretty soon the ones you think are harmless are going to be controlled...

Antagonistic...nope...annoyed by nonsense that never answers the question...yep

pandora · July 2012

pandora wrote:

Having cigs and alcohol legal changed many lives in the last century,

they became a norm for social behavior
for much of society as will legalizing all drugs.

They are a perfect example of the use and abuse that will take place
just because they are legal.

Do we want to send a message like

hey meth is great ... it's legal try it?
Cocaine, cool man, have some fun don't worry about addiction
that only happens to the other guy.
Shoot up now ...enjoy! Life sucks make it go away!

Yes the questioned was answered and by our own history...
This what will happen to generations of tomorrow

mikepegg44 · July 2012

pandora wrote:

pandora wrote:

Having cigs and alcohol legal changed many lives in the last century,

they became a norm for social behavior
for much of society as will legalizing all drugs.

They are a perfect example of the use and abuse that will take place
just because they are legal.

Do we want to send a message like

hey meth is great ... it's legal try it?
Cocaine, cool man, have some fun don't worry about addiction
that only happens to the other guy.
Shoot up now ...enjoy! Life sucks make it go away!

Yes the questioned was answered and by our own history...
This what will happen to generations of tomorrow

so you think people will rush out to do drugs in droves that haven't because they were illegal?

pandora · July 2012

mikepegg44 wrote:

Not antagonizing...you need to realize that constantly posting about the children is annoying and obfuscates the discussion with stuff that doesn't matter.
just pointing out that after a number of opportunities you still have not answered the question. instead you have continued to spout off the same rhetoric that is constant...protecting the kids, blah, blah, blah...you haven't answered the question...what would happen?
I have addressed your points, numerous people have addressed your points time and again, and shown that criminal punishment for drug use is not nearly as successful as education and treatment options and yet you want to keep things illegal to even end users because you are afraid that some American kid will die because of a choice they made. You use some bastardized statistic about brain development to try and prove your point and you are wrong about that too...I have addressed this to a pointless end...what you feel you feel and no one is going to change that...do I think it is better if people don't do drugs...yes I do...is it my right to tell them they can't...no. Pretty simple. When you use the legal system to control behaviors pretty soon the ones you think are harmless are going to be controlled...

Antagonistic...nope...annoyed by nonsense that never answers the question...yep

I have numerous times said users would do better in treatment than prison
unless they are selling drugs to others.

Of course we use a legal system to control behavior how about those who murder? :fp:

That is exactly what our legal system does, people are punished for behavior that endangers others.
Subtance use and abuse endangers others and society.

pandora · July 2012

mikepegg44 wrote:

pandora wrote:

pandora wrote:

Having cigs and alcohol legal changed many lives in the last century,

they became a norm for social behavior
for much of society as will legalizing all drugs.

They are a perfect example of the use and abuse that will take place
just because they are legal.

Do we want to send a message like

hey meth is great ... it's legal try it?
Cocaine, cool man, have some fun don't worry about addiction
that only happens to the other guy.
Shoot up now ...enjoy! Life sucks make it go away!

Yes the questioned was answered and by our own history...
This what will happen to generations of tomorrow

so you think people will rush out to do drugs in droves that haven't because they were illegal?

Is that what you get from our history?

mikepegg44 · July 2012

pandora wrote:

Is that what you get from our history?

is it impossible for you to answer a question directly?

pandora · July 2012

mikepegg44 wrote:

pandora wrote:

Is that what you get from our history?

is it impossible for you to answer a question directly?

if you do

my answer was right there and even in italics... but if you continue to be biased and
make ridiculous and insulting assumptions of others as your behavior here has clearly shown,
you can not debate in good form.

mikepegg44 wrote:

couldn't disagree more...people said the same thing about alcohol...there are some that deal illegally in it, but for the most part, it is just tradition now...

If drugs were legalized tomorrow, I would head down to the local farmers market very quickly

My life wouldn't change one way or another, I don't do them now, wouldn't do them tomorrow...my drug of choice is legal, and thank god for that...I don't know what I would do in the summer without a gimlet...

yes lets have hard drugs as tradition

this post shows your absolute lack of feeling for those who would, at tender ages,
become drug addicts just because you didn't.

Yes you should thank God that you did not get hooked at age 14 and for the lucky stars
that gave you a life that made better choices possible. This is all about you sadly to say.

mikepegg44 wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

Well, first things first, we’d have to start sacrificing the souls of our children (oh god, think of the children!), that morning.
The roads would be filled with millions of impaired drivers who would drive high only because drugs are legal.
Occasional users would become hopeless addicts instantly, just because they could.
Crime rates would skyrocket as addicts increased their use because of easier access, and turned to crime to support their habit.
Mass murderers would become legit businessmen overnight.

dogs would then begin living with cats...basically mass hysteria

A serious subject when people are dying...

From reading through your posts
I see you did not answer the question unless the above light you made was your answer.

mikepegg44 · July 2012

pandora wrote:

From reading through your posts
I see you did not answer the question unless the above light you made was your answer.

haha...well played.

My answer was that peoples' lives, like my own wouldn't change drastically in any way...
as has been shown in the countries who have decriminalized.
You think drug use would be the norm?

mikepegg44 · July 2012

pandora wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

Not antagonizing...you need to realize that constantly posting about the children is annoying and obfuscates the discussion with stuff that doesn't matter.
just pointing out that after a number of opportunities you still have not answered the question. instead you have continued to spout off the same rhetoric that is constant...protecting the kids, blah, blah, blah...you haven't answered the question...what would happen?
I have addressed your points, numerous people have addressed your points time and again, and shown that criminal punishment for drug use is not nearly as successful as education and treatment options and yet you want to keep things illegal to even end users because you are afraid that some American kid will die because of a choice they made. You use some bastardized statistic about brain development to try and prove your point and you are wrong about that too...I have addressed this to a pointless end...what you feel you feel and no one is going to change that...do I think it is better if people don't do drugs...yes I do...is it my right to tell them they can't...no. Pretty simple. When you use the legal system to control behaviors pretty soon the ones you think are harmless are going to be controlled...

Antagonistic...nope...annoyed by nonsense that never answers the question...yep

I have numerous times said users would do better in treatment than prison
unless they are selling drugs to others.

Of course we use a legal system to control behavior how about those who murder? :fp:

That is exactly what our legal system does, people are punished for behavior that endangers others.
Subtance use and abuse endangers others and society.

that is used to protect me from you, not to stop me from killing...that is a simple side effect of reason. If someone is getting high and not bothering anyone, they should be free to do so.

edit**

hopefully that was clear...laws are meant to protect me from you or anyone else who will harm me...they should not be used as a behavioral modification tool.

pandora · July 2012

mikepegg44 wrote:

pandora wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

Not antagonizing...you need to realize that constantly posting about the children is annoying and obfuscates the discussion with stuff that doesn't matter.
just pointing out that after a number of opportunities you still have not answered the question. instead you have continued to spout off the same rhetoric that is constant...protecting the kids, blah, blah, blah...you haven't answered the question...what would happen?
I have addressed your points, numerous people have addressed your points time and again, and shown that criminal punishment for drug use is not nearly as successful as education and treatment options and yet you want to keep things illegal to even end users because you are afraid that some American kid will die because of a choice they made. You use some bastardized statistic about brain development to try and prove your point and you are wrong about that too...I have addressed this to a pointless end...what you feel you feel and no one is going to change that...do I think it is better if people don't do drugs...yes I do...is it my right to tell them they can't...no. Pretty simple. When you use the legal system to control behaviors pretty soon the ones you think are harmless are going to be controlled...

Antagonistic...nope...annoyed by nonsense that never answers the question...yep

I have numerous times said users would do better in treatment than prison
unless they are selling drugs to others.

Of course we use a legal system to control behavior how about those who murder? :fp:

That is exactly what our legal system does, people are punished for behavior that endangers others.
Subtance use and abuse endangers others and society.

that is used to protect me from you, not to stop me from killing...that is a simple side effect of reason. If someone is getting high and not bothering anyone, they should be free to do so.

edit**

hopefully that was clear...laws are meant to protect me from you or anyone else who will harm me...they should not be used as a behavioral modification tool.

And when behavior kills? one's behavior ...
like drug use causes the direct death of another.

Our laws are meant to change behavior they are a guide to what is not acceptable
then through imprisonment, through punishment the hope to change behavior,
that is the goal, teach a lesson not only protect.

Hey Mike Vick said it worked for him....
just this am while promoting his new book :wtf: prison did just that
changed him and his life forever... Hello...wake up call.
It all became clear, what he did was wrong.

Maybe he has been so humbled to change.

No one sits getting high on meth not hurting anyone or society
this the flaw that the legalize all drug people don't want to see.

Hard drug use/abuse hurts everyone
and to legalize them would make drug use the norm instead of the taboo.

Just as legalizing dog fights would ... I don't think many would want that part
of our future society. That would be disgusting, just as all drugs legal are.

Certainly wouldn't want hard drugs a tradition or dog fighting a tradition,
either behavior a detriment to society.

mikepegg44 · July 2012

pandora wrote:

No one sits getting high on meth not hurting anyone or society
this the flaw that the legalize all drug people don't want to see.

Hard drug use/abuse hurts everyone
and to legalize them would make drug use the norm instead of the taboo.

that is where we disagree fundamentally I suppose. I think that until they do something that violates the rights of someone else they should be free to do whatever they choose. People do sit at home, high on meth/coke/opium/heroin and not hurt others. You don't get to hear about them. By the way, bath salts are legal, and as far as I know...MOST people aren't rushing out to use them...and those that do, a small percentage of them go crazy...so because a few cannot handle it we get rid of it for everyone...I find that wrong...
as far as harming society, what brings harm to society isn't necessarily illegal...

What about a behavior like greed? I think greed harms society but it isn't illegal...and until greed drives you to violate the individual rights of someone else people are free to be greedy. Drugs aren't any different.

People will be more aware of the dangers of drugs if we spend more time and energy educating them rather than spending those resources locking people up for using crack.
We will have to simple disagree on what the purpose of a law should be...
But we can take this to PM if you would like, I think people on here are probably sick of reading our arguments on the subject

moretonbayfig · July 2012

Decriminalization of personal use + availability of a variety of treatment and harm minimization options to users/'misusers' and their loved ones (including experienced GPs, mental health workers, safe injecting rooms, AA, NA, residential programmes, peer support and first aid training, 24 hotlines...) may be preferable to legalizing. War mongering and debate just polarizes the issue and the facts get lost in the smoke-haze of politics... and makes people fearful of the repercussions of calling ambulance or police in an emergency. If all illicit drugs were legalized tomorrow - who knows? But it probably wouldn't reduce rates of domestic and family violence, violence generally, sexual assault, mental health problems, social isolation, homelessness...

JonnyPistachio · July 2012

pandora wrote:

No one sits getting high on meth not hurting anyone or society
this the flaw that the legalize all drug people don't want to see.

I agree that many/most people who regularly use meth do hurt society, but does that come to an end when they are arrested and thrown in jail? Or could it be fixed if we refocused our attention on rehab and treatment and kept them out of a viscous cycle of imprisonment?

pandora wrote:

Hard drug use/abuse hurts everyone
and to legalize them would make drug use the norm instead of the taboo.

I highly doubt that legalizing would make drugs the norm. Honestly, what are your thoughts on the articles and studies posted in this thread about other countries that have decriminalized, where drug use has not skyrocketed?

mysticweed · July 2012

hopefully there would be a better selection of weed
competition would benefit my area

BinauralJam · July 2012

mysticweed wrote:

hopefully there would be a better selection of weed
competition would benefit my area

do you smoke hydro? i like every now and then for a change, but after the first one, the next couple don't seem to have the same impact. Then it feels like a waste of money.

pandora · July 2012

JonnyPistachio wrote:

pandora wrote:

No one sits getting high on meth not hurting anyone or society
this the flaw that the legalize all drug people don't want to see.

I agree that many/most people who regularly use meth do hurt society, but does that come to an end when they are arrested and thrown in jail? Or could it be fixed if we refocused our attention on rehab and treatment and kept them out of a viscous cycle of imprisonment?

pandora wrote:

Hard drug use/abuse hurts everyone
and to legalize them would make drug use the norm instead of the taboo.

I highly doubt that legalizing would make drugs the norm. Honestly, what are your thoughts on the articles and studies posted in this thread about other countries that have decriminalized, where drug use has not skyrocketed?

I think we can see we are nothing like other countries. What seems to work for them does not us.
We have very unique problems including the people who reside in our country and how
they live their lives.

Also not sure why I must repeat I have said many times my heart is with the users,
that treatment is the answer unless someone is selling. Laws can be changed
to encompass this not making all dangerous drugs legal.

And yes when a taboo is lifted it is condoned by society.
This happened with cigs and alcohol and will happen with drug use.
The message to send is still no tolerance for hard drug use in our society,
they are a detriment to all and a danger to individuals.
I think we can see that with the legal bath salts sold at our friendly 7/11.
People choose to endanger their lives and others because they do not value life.

If Drugs were legalized tomorrow what would happen?

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