I think we can see we are nothing like other countries. What seems to work for them does not us.
We have very unique problems including the people who reside in our country and how
they live their lives.
Presumptuous and defeatist. Not even willing to see how something could potentially work because one is personally against. How would one know it won't 'work' if one doesn't try or even seriously look into it? There is no reason for some sort of decriminalization not to work. And again, decriminalizing is not condoning use - but we know this. As it has been said numerous times before, there are many, many things that are legal but not 'condoned' by society as a whole (liberal gun laws, cigarettes, alcohol, abortion, etc.) so let's not use this as an excuse to not explore a proven way to improve/help society.
No one sits getting high on meth not hurting anyone or society
this the flaw that the legalize all drug people don't want to see.
I agree that many/most people who regularly use meth do hurt society, but does that come to an end when they are arrested and thrown in jail? Or could it be fixed if we refocused our attention on rehab and treatment and kept them out of a viscous cycle of imprisonment?
Hard drug use/abuse hurts everyone
and to legalize them would make drug use the norm instead of the taboo.
I highly doubt that legalizing would make drugs the norm. Honestly, what are your thoughts on the articles and studies posted in this thread about other countries that have decriminalized, where drug use has not skyrocketed?
I think we can see we are nothing like other countries. What seems to work for them does not us.
We have very unique problems including the people who reside in our country and how
they live their lives.
Also not sure why I must repeat I have said many times my heart is with the users,
that treatment is the answer unless someone is selling. Laws can be changed
to encompass this not making all dangerous drugs legal.
And yes when a taboo is lifted it is condoned by society.
This happened with cigs and alcohol and will happen with drug use.
The message to send is still no tolerance for hard drug use in our society,
they are a detriment to all and a danger to individuals.
I think we can see that with the legal bath salts sold at our friendly 7/11.
People choose to endanger their lives and others because they do not value life.
btw, I am on the fence on the whole thing.. I think most drugs should be decriminalized...not necessarily all legal. And I know the USA is very different from these other countries...but is the common drug abuser so different? Personally, I'm just trying to envision legalization and/or decriminalization from every perspective because I just cant picture it, and our current ways aren't working very well.
I see the recent abuses, especially in florida, of roxy and oxy. I've seen it ruin lives. But I really think we were just unprepared for it. No matter what, if legalization/decriminalization occurred, I cant see it being sold to everyone anytime. there are rules to cigs and alcohol. And although I'm on the fence on much of this, I personally dont see legalizing/decriminalizing as condoning it.
btw, I am on the fence on the whole thing.. I think most drugs should be decriminalized...not necessarily all legal. And I know the USA is very different from these other countries...but is the common drug abuser so different? Personally, I'm just trying to envision legalization and/or decriminalization from every perspective because I just cant picture it, and our current ways aren't working very well.
I think when a lot of people are talking about legalisation, when they explain what they mean, it's more decriminalisation. You are right - one needs to look at new solutions as the current ones are just not working - it's getting worse and worse. Again, not just the user aspect, but all that revolves around drugs.So... go even 'harsher' or more 'lenient'? Harsher hasn't worked, maybe open our mind to 'lenient' like some other countries have done with fantastic results? See how it could be adapted to fit a certain society?
Its an interesting question. What do you think would happen? I think for the first couple days maybe it would be wild around the country, but ultimately i think everything would calm down. Those who wanted drugs would have access to them, like before. The amount of people who would use drugs, because their brother or dad or mom now could legally obtain the drugs, I dont think we'd see much of a rise in users. Plus the people who smoke or use cocaine at a party, in this hypothetical scenerio, could i guess indulge more openly, but more than likely they would have been using at the party reguardless.
Ultimately, I think drug legalization is a sensible thing to do. Tobacco and alcohol are dangerous drugs and both are legal. The amount of people who die directly from cigarettes or indirectly via second hand smoke, and the amount of people who die either via drinking too much and dying, or drinking and driving, or getting hit by a drunk driver, i would assume those numbers are way higher than those who die from any of the major drugs.
Additionally, the drug war is a failure. its racist and classist. And has solved nothing. The laws themselves are arcane and outdated and make little to no sense. The fact that the majority of prisoners in this country are of color, and are incarerated for nonviolent drug offences, is insane and makes no sense.
In my mind legalization makes a great deal of sense.
I don't agree with your thought on this (no offense)
but if drugs were legalized........guess I'd do a bong load and have a beer I haven't had either in a looooong time...long long time.
I think we can see we are nothing like other countries. What seems to work for them does not us.
We have very unique problems including the people who reside in our country and how
they live their lives.
Presumptuous and defeatist. Not even willing to see how something could potentially work because one is personally against. How would one know it won't 'work' if one doesn't try or even seriously look into it? There is no reason for some sort of decriminalization not to work. And again, decriminalizing is not condoning use - but we know this. As it has been said numerous times before, there are many, many things that are legal but not 'condoned' by society as a whole (liberal gun laws, cigarettes, alcohol, abortion, etc.) so let's not use this as an excuse to not explore a proven way to improve/help society.
Also not sure why I must repeat I have said many times my heart is with the users,
that treatment is the answer unless someone is selling.
Is it? Lots of of users sell.
duh ... really? :fp:
again new laws to help those who need treatment, pushers off to jail.
So you don't think our US society condones the above examples of yours bolded in red...
alrighty then :fp: that deserved another
we are number one in gun ownership in the world,
cigs and alcohol use is mainstream, young children starting use before the teen years.
Abortion has sky rocketed to the point of being a birth control measure...
the last figure I could find on this is 2008 ... 3,322 abortions per day. :wtf:
I think they are afraid to tell us how many are currently but I bet it's risen.
To me that is condoning. It is practicing, it is integrated into society as a normal behavior.
If they were legalized tomorrow, the government would tax the crap out of it but not lower taxes anywhere else to compensate. And so they would take even more of our freedoms away as usual.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
So you don't think our US society condones the above examples of yours bolded in red...
alrighty then :fp: that deserved another
we are number one in gun ownership in the world,
cigs and alcohol use is mainstream, young children starting use before the teen years.
Abortion has sky rocketed to the point of being a birth control measure...
the last figure I could find on this is 2008 ... 3,322 abortions per day. :wtf:
I think they are afraid to tell us how many are currently but I bet it's risen.
To me that is condoning. It is practicing, it is integrated into society as a normal behavior.
Not something we want for dangerous hard drugs.
Well, you sure like to use :fp: in the most inappropriate manner. I know you have a chip on your shoulder for many things but again, condoning does not automatically mean 'embracing' as you would seem to think so. :fp: (hehe... he is fun to use!).
And no, society as a whole does not condone what you have highlighted in red (curiously leaving out the liberal gun laws). Due to your numerous past experiences, you may think you would be giving your approval to these (or drug use should you 'allow' such a law to pass) but that would not be true for society as a whole. Some parts of society may, some people may, but not society as a whole and, as such, you cannot claim these are integrated into society as normal behaviour. Definition condone: condone - From Latin condonare, "refrain from punishing," it does not mean "approve of, endorse"; it means "let something pass without interference even though you probably disapprove," or "pardon, forgive, overlook." We are not seeking, as a society, to 'overlook/forgive/pardon' drug use but to try and find a solution to a problem that exists. A proposed solution which has been proven to work in a society that in no way 'endorses' drug use - on the contrary (ie portuguese society, as we are using their country's effective way of combating this problem as an example). But you know all this - it has been discussed ad nauseam in a previous thread so I will leave you to continue 'discussing' this with yourself and wear blinkers (yes, blinkers - correct use of word ) if you so wish - I have nothing more to say on this particular subject.
no no..the goverments will be the new deales..as happens to alchohol and cigaretes..that u pay 10 $ for a packate and 9.90$ are taxes..
at least if it is a good drug you wouldn't even give a damn..
And then the old drug dealers will come back into business and offer it for $5, then the government has to go back into the drug war to get rid of the people undercutting them............
Yeah, I'd rather by my weed legally for an extra 10-15 bucks than to take the risk of getting arrested. The old drug dealers wouldn't make nearly as much money when you have a govt legally supplying so they'd have to charge less to cut in on the action but doing so means far less profit which means it's not as worthwhile. If you can make booze legal it can be done with drugs just as easily
Drug offenders would be taken out of prison, we'd be spending much less money on this waste of time that is the war on drugs, people would be able to choose what they want to put into their own bodies, and most importantly, we can all walk down the street, joint in hand.
So you don't think our US society condones the above examples of yours bolded in red...
alrighty then :fp: that deserved another
we are number one in gun ownership in the world,
cigs and alcohol use is mainstream, young children starting use before the teen years.
Abortion has sky rocketed to the point of being a birth control measure...
the last figure I could find on this is 2008 ... 3,322 abortions per day. :wtf:
I think they are afraid to tell us how many are currently but I bet it's risen.
To me that is condoning. It is practicing, it is integrated into society as a normal behavior.
Not something we want for dangerous hard drugs.
Well, you sure like to use :fp: in the most inappropriate manner. I know you have a chip on your shoulder for many things but again, condoning does not automatically mean 'embracing' as you would seem to think so. :fp: (hehe... he is fun to use!).
And no, society as a whole does not condone what you have highlighted in red (curiously leaving out the liberal gun laws). Due to your numerous past experiences, you may think you would be giving your approval to these (or drug use should you 'allow' such a law to pass) but that would not be true for society as a whole. Some parts of society may, some people may, but not society as a whole and, as such, you cannot claim these are integrated into society as normal behaviour. Definition condone: condone - From Latin condonare, "refrain from punishing," it does not mean "approve of, endorse"; it means "let something pass without interference even though you probably disapprove," or "pardon, forgive, overlook." We are not seeking, as a society, to 'overlook/forgive/pardon' drug use but to try and find a solution to a problem that exists. A proposed solution which has been proven to work in a society that in no way 'endorses' drug use - on the contrary (ie portuguese society, as we are using their country's effective way of combating this problem as an example). But you know all this - it has been discussed ad nauseam in a previous thread so I will leave you to continue 'discussing' this with yourself and wear blinkers (yes, blinkers - correct use of word ) if you so wish - I have nothing more to say on this particular subject.
I mentioned the gun issue we are number one.
If you think that is because of liberal gun laws that would be your opinion.
I happen to believe it is because of exactly who we are and who our country is
and what and how it was founded and even written... as a right as allowed by law.
Of course all the things you mentioned are integrated, practiced and condoned in our society.
Perhaps not where you live certainly where I do. The evidence is in every aspect of life.
I think from previous posts you lean toward decriminalization. I lean towards laws for treatment not imprisonment of users
prison for only those selling and promoting drug use directly in another human being
for profit, even if in the form of their own drug consumption.
So, is it true you do not believe all hard drugs should be legalized?
If so why?
I ask this of all on the fence, all who believe decriminalization is the way to go not to legalize all drugs.
Drug offenders would be taken out of prison, we'd be spending much less money on this waste of time that is the war on drugs, people would be able to choose what they want to put into their own bodies, and most importantly, we can all walk down the street, joint in hand.
yes by all means lets have one fucked up society full of adults walking around as the norm ...
children just love to watch and learn from fucked up adults.
But why should they stop at a joint... really fucked up on meth damn is so much better...
til their teeth fall out. Good thing their fucked up parents spent all that money
on braces ...
Drug offenders would be taken out of prison, we'd be spending much less money on this waste of time that is the war on drugs, people would be able to choose what they want to put into their own bodies, and most importantly, we can all walk down the street, joint in hand.
yes by all means lets have one fucked up society full of adults walking around as the norm ...
children just love to watch and learn from fucked up adults.
But why should they stop at a joint... really fucked up on meth damn is so much better...
til their teeth fall out. Good thing their fucked up parents spent all that money
on braces ...
own body ... grow up people :fp:
Give it a rest pandora. I see people walking down the streets drunk all the time. Visit a college town sometime. Stoned kids (or adults) are much less of a danger to themselves and others.
Would you rather have your kid seeing a guy that appears to be smoking a cigarette or would you like them to see a drunk ass stumbling around/throwing up/being loud/possibly belligerent?
Drug offenders would be taken out of prison, we'd be spending much less money on this waste of time that is the war on drugs, people would be able to choose what they want to put into their own bodies, and most importantly, we can all walk down the street, joint in hand.
yes by all means lets have one fucked up society full of adults walking around as the norm ...
children just love to watch and learn from fucked up adults.
But why should they stop at a joint... really fucked up on meth damn is so much better...
til their teeth fall out. Good thing their fucked up parents spent all that money
on braces ...
own body ... grow up people :fp:
Give it a rest pandora. I see people walking down the streets drunk all the time. Visit a college town sometime. Stoned kids (or adults) are much less of a danger to themselves and others.
Would you rather have your kid seeing a guy that appears to be smoking a cigarette or would you like them to see a drunk ass stumbling around/throwing up/being loud/possibly belligerent?
Sad.
Why do people continue to point out something they believe to be worse
to justify something else that is just as detrimental?
Funny stuff ...
But thanks for reinforcing the problems we have with alcohol because it is legal,
it has been integrated into our society, practiced by many and condoned.
And "appears to be smoking a cig" ... man do you underestimate children
Perhaps you have no idea the effects adults have on children's behavior.
I think from previous posts you lean toward decriminalization. I lean towards laws for treatment not imprisonment of users
prison for only those selling and promoting drug use directly in another human being
for profit, even if in the form of their own drug consumption.
I think clarification of the bolded sentence is in order. How do you pass a 'law for treatment of users'? Are you talking about mandatory rehab?
Do you think that's going to be effective? Would convicted users still have a criminal record under your scenario? Sounds like you want it both ways.
yes by all means lets have one fucked up society full of adults walking around as the norm ...
children just love to watch and learn from fucked up adults.
But why should they stop at a joint... really fucked up on meth damn is so much better...
til their teeth fall out. Good thing their fucked up parents spent all that money
on braces ...
But thanks for reinforcing the problems we have with alcohol because it is legal,
it has been integrated into our society, practiced by many and condoned.
And "appears to be smoking a cig" ... man do you underestimate children
Perhaps you have no idea the effects adults have on children's behavior.
And you have the gall to call other board members antagonistic? The sarcastic trolling and skirting of personal comment rules is as antagonistic as any comments directed to you on this board.
Why do people continue to point out something they believe to be worse
to justify something else that is just as detrimental?
Funny stuff ...
But thanks for reinforcing the problems we have with alcohol because it is legal,
it has been integrated into our society, practiced by many and condoned.
And "appears to be smoking a cig" ... man do you underestimate children
Perhaps you have no idea the effects adults have on children's behavior.
Yes on your first point and yes on your second point.
Comments
Is it? Lots of of users sell.
btw, I am on the fence on the whole thing.. I think most drugs should be decriminalized...not necessarily all legal. And I know the USA is very different from these other countries...but is the common drug abuser so different? Personally, I'm just trying to envision legalization and/or decriminalization from every perspective because I just cant picture it, and our current ways aren't working very well.
I see the recent abuses, especially in florida, of roxy and oxy. I've seen it ruin lives. But I really think we were just unprepared for it. No matter what, if legalization/decriminalization occurred, I cant see it being sold to everyone anytime. there are rules to cigs and alcohol. And although I'm on the fence on much of this, I personally dont see legalizing/decriminalizing as condoning it.
I think when a lot of people are talking about legalisation, when they explain what they mean, it's more decriminalisation. You are right - one needs to look at new solutions as the current ones are just not working - it's getting worse and worse. Again, not just the user aspect, but all that revolves around drugs.So... go even 'harsher' or more 'lenient'? Harsher hasn't worked, maybe open our mind to 'lenient' like some other countries have done with fantastic results? See how it could be adapted to fit a certain society?
I don't agree with your thought on this (no offense)
but if drugs were legalized........guess I'd do a bong load and have a beer
Godfather.
Godfather.
again new laws to help those who need treatment, pushers off to jail.
So you don't think our US society condones the above examples of yours bolded in red...
alrighty then :fp: that deserved another
we are number one in gun ownership in the world,
cigs and alcohol use is mainstream, young children starting use before the teen years.
Abortion has sky rocketed to the point of being a birth control measure...
the last figure I could find on this is 2008 ... 3,322 abortions per day. :wtf:
I think they are afraid to tell us how many are currently but I bet it's risen.
To me that is condoning. It is practicing, it is integrated into society as a normal behavior.
Not something we want for dangerous hard drugs.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
In what way?
The government doesn't need any more revenue.
They would have more of our money and therefore we'd have less freedom.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Well, you sure like to use :fp: in the most inappropriate manner. I know you have a chip on your shoulder for many things but again, condoning does not automatically mean 'embracing' as you would seem to think so. :fp: (hehe... he is fun to use!).
And no, society as a whole does not condone what you have highlighted in red (curiously leaving out the liberal gun laws). Due to your numerous past experiences, you may think you would be giving your approval to these (or drug use should you 'allow' such a law to pass) but that would not be true for society as a whole. Some parts of society may, some people may, but not society as a whole and, as such, you cannot claim these are integrated into society as normal behaviour. Definition condone: condone - From Latin condonare, "refrain from punishing," it does not mean "approve of, endorse"; it means "let something pass without interference even though you probably disapprove," or "pardon, forgive, overlook." We are not seeking, as a society, to 'overlook/forgive/pardon' drug use but to try and find a solution to a problem that exists. A proposed solution which has been proven to work in a society that in no way 'endorses' drug use - on the contrary (ie portuguese society, as we are using their country's effective way of combating this problem as an example). But you know all this - it has been discussed ad nauseam in a previous thread so I will leave you to continue 'discussing' this with yourself and wear blinkers (yes, blinkers - correct use of word
Yeah, I'd rather by my weed legally for an extra 10-15 bucks than to take the risk of getting arrested. The old drug dealers wouldn't make nearly as much money when you have a govt legally supplying so they'd have to charge less to cut in on the action but doing so means far less profit which means it's not as worthwhile. If you can make booze legal it can be done with drugs just as easily
Drug offenders would be taken out of prison, we'd be spending much less money on this waste of time that is the war on drugs, people would be able to choose what they want to put into their own bodies, and most importantly, we can all walk down the street, joint in hand.
always a great topic for discussion...
i'm just pissed i gotta run...suppers actually ready..
either way...i made a post so i can come back to this discussion...
If you think that is because of liberal gun laws that would be your opinion.
I happen to believe it is because of exactly who we are and who our country is
and what and how it was founded and even written... as a right as allowed by law.
Of course all the things you mentioned are integrated, practiced and condoned in our society.
Perhaps not where you live certainly where I do. The evidence is in every aspect of life.
I think from previous posts you lean toward decriminalization.
I lean towards laws for treatment not imprisonment of users
prison for only those selling and promoting drug use directly in another human being
for profit, even if in the form of their own drug consumption.
So, is it true you do not believe all hard drugs should be legalized?
If so why?
I ask this of all on the fence, all who believe decriminalization is the way to go
not to legalize all drugs.
yes by all means lets have one fucked up society full of adults walking around as the norm ...
children just love to watch and learn from fucked up adults.
But why should they stop at a joint... really fucked up on meth damn is so much better...
til their teeth fall out. Good thing their fucked up parents spent all that money
on braces ...
own body ..[rude comment removed by admin] :fp:
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I like the sound of this.
Give it a rest pandora. I see people walking down the streets drunk all the time. Visit a college town sometime. Stoned kids (or adults) are much less of a danger to themselves and others.
Would you rather have your kid seeing a guy that appears to be smoking a cigarette or would you like them to see a drunk ass stumbling around/throwing up/being loud/possibly belligerent?
Sad.
to justify something else that is just as detrimental?
Funny stuff ...
But thanks for reinforcing the problems we have with alcohol because it is legal,
it has been integrated into our society, practiced by many and condoned.
And "appears to be smoking a cig" ... man do you underestimate children
Perhaps you have no idea the effects adults have on children's behavior.
I think clarification of the bolded sentence is in order. How do you pass a 'law for treatment of users'? Are you talking about mandatory rehab?
Do you think that's going to be effective? Would convicted users still have a criminal record under your scenario? Sounds like you want it both ways.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………
And you have the gall to call other board members antagonistic? The sarcastic trolling and skirting of personal comment rules is as antagonistic as any comments directed to you on this board.
Yes on your first point and yes on your second point.