Question for those attending European shows

PJPghStlrfan · October 2006

Hi Jammers from around the world!! As someone who wasn;t able to get over to Europe, but buys a lot of the bootlegs, I have a question. Is Ed reading from notes in Spanish,Italian, French? others non-English languages?Or is does he really seem to know the language? I would say he is being respectful by trying to speak the language, but I can't remember Ed being fluent in any other language. Although I think in Holland? he said he is fluent in french, probably Ed just f***ing with ya...lol...

god what do you say??!!

wolfbear · October 2006

He had pages he was reading from at the four concerts we were at. He seemed to do pretty well though from the responses. At least everyone could understand what he was saying, unlike us US people!

decides2dream · October 2006

wolfbear wrote:

He had pages he was reading from at the four concerts we were at. He seemed to do pretty well though from the responses. At least everyone could understand what he was saying, unlike us US people!

all 5 italian gigs, he did read from notes.

i could be wrong, but as far as i know, ed is not fluent in any other language other than english...and i think the same can be said for all the boys of pj, none are bi-lingual, etc. however, from the sounds of it, he got excellent translations done for him, which does speak volumes...at least to me, for how ed/the band feels for their fans, to speak in their native tongue, etc...so appluad his/their efforts...and i've heard from many foreign speakers he did rather well with his accent.

SPALMA · October 2006

He was reading some prepared stories at the Lisbon cocnerts. But there were a few phrases and pronunciations that seemed natural. A couple of times he lapsed into some Spanish pronunciations. But a great effort in the long run... and very practised accent - Portuguese is not easy.

Pegasus · October 2006

He read from notes in all instances.
I don't think he speaks remotely any of the languages (maybe a tiny bit of Spanish or Italian??).

To his credit, he didn't sound American in any of the ones I heard him try...and that's unusual..you generally can tell even in languages you can't understand..it stands out for some reason in a way that English or Oz accents don't ...but then I don't think he has a particularly strong American accent anyway..unlike Stone or Mike!!

From what I heard of the various locals, his pronounciation wasn't bad..I know his French was pretty good, esp. considering he doesn't actually speak the language.

Made me laugh though when in Prague (and Berlin?) he went into pidgin English to say something else not translated...like anyone would understand better with bad grammar :rolleyes:

decides2dream · October 2006

Pegasus wrote:

He read from notes in all instances.
I don't think he speaks remotely any of the languages (maybe a tiny bit of Spanish or Italian??).

To his credit, he didn't sound American in any of the ones I heard him try...and that's unusual..you generally can tell even in languages you can't understand..it stands out for some reason in a way that English or Oz accents don't ...but then I don't think he has a particularly strong American accent anyway..unlike Stone or Mike!!

From what I heard of the various locals, his pronounciation wasn't bad..I know his French was pretty good, esp. considering he doesn't actually speak the language.

Made me laugh though when in Prague (and Berlin?) he went into pidgin English to say something else not translated...like anyone would understand better with bad grammar :rolleyes:

maybe i don't *get it*...but why exactly is "To his credit, he didn't sound American in any of the ones I heard him try..." a good thing? is it generally considered bad to sound american, to have an american accent? i do understand trying to replicate the accent of whatever language you are trying to speak.....but i don't get the american/english/oz...and don't forget canadian....accents coming into it, or why it's 'to his credit' to not hear ed's american accent. i mean, it's clear ed IS american...so yea...i'm a bit lost......

or is it simply, americans in genral are usually worse at replicating a foreign language's accent when speaking?

redrock · October 2006

decides2dream wrote:

or is it simply, americans in genral are usually worse at replicating a foreign language's accent when speaking?

It's the 'R's that give it away!!!!

English speaking people have great difficulties with the Rs - they can't make it sound hard or guttural (for French, German, Eastern European languages, etc.)

Whereas lots of 'strange' sounds are found in most European languages (like the 'eu' in French), these are not found in the English language - thus difficult for English speakers to get their mouth and tongue around those sounds! All very technical!

:D

Being completely bi-lingual French/American (raised in both languages) amd speaking two other languages (not fluent but I get by!), I can see the difficulties in trying to replicate any foreign sounds.

Anyway, after all of this... I find a slight accent when speaking a foreign language absolutely charming - in any language!

Wonderful that Ed did what he did!

decides2dream · October 2006

redrock wrote:

It's the 'R's that give it away!!!! English speaking people have great difficulties with the Rs - they can't make it sound hard or guttural (for French, German, Eastern European languages, etc.) Whereas lots of 'strange' sounds are found in most European languages (like the 'eu' in French), these are not found in the English language - thus difficult for English speakers to get their mouth and tongue around those sounds! All very technical! :D

Being completely bi-lingual French/American (raised in both languages) amd speaking two other languages (not fluent but I get by!), I can see the difficulties in trying to replicate any foreign sounds.

Anyway, after all of this... I find a slight accent when speaking a foreign language absolutely charming - in any language!

Wonderful that Ed did what he did!

ok, i get that...but that's just saying english speakers, not specifically american speakers. thus where my confusion lies, and what i was questioning of pegasus' post.

and given that all i speak IS english, fake some italian and spanish

...and yea, i definitely get the 'r' thing, and can't do it :(....i just wanted to gain some understanding of what was really meant by that comment.

or does the fact that we are evil incarnate normally come out in our american accents?

ScotInAmsterdam · October 2006

Hard to describe in text, but I know what pegasus means. It's really horrible when you hear Americans murder foreign languages with a strong accent over it. They are not the only offenders... I've heard some pretty awful English accents too, and australian, although I refer more to the people who speak the languages rather than people that are trying a few phrases for a few days...

The best way I can describe it is to say "Par lay voo fron say" with as strong a new jersey(or similar recognisable accent) as you can muster. I know people who are conversationally good in dutch but speak like that... with various accents. One of the worst being a german girl I know. She has an almost comedy German accent, but tries really hard in dutch. She has almost perfect written dutch, but speaks with some sort of German stereotype accent, which most Germans I know don't even have. All she needs to do is make an effort with the accent.

Ed was really far away from that... he seemed to have made some effort to pick up the local accent, but I think hes half way there anyway. One of my tricks for speaking languages(I am far from expert, but get a way with a few phrases in most european languages), is to mumble.. and we all know Ed is wonderful at that.....

Riot_Rain · October 2006

decides2dream wrote:

maybe i don't *get it*...but why exactly is "To his credit, he didn't sound American in any of the ones I heard him try..." a good thing? is it generally considered bad to sound american, to have an american accent? i do understand trying to replicate the accent of whatever language you are trying to speak.....but i don't get the american/english/oz...and don't forget canadian....accents coming into it, or why it's 'to his credit' to not hear ed's american accent. i mean, it's clear ed IS american...so yea...i'm a bit lost...... or is it simply, americans in genral are usually worse at replicating a foreign language's accent when speaking?

Just an anecdote:

I did a semester in Finland (I'm Dutch) and all the foreign students did this Finnish 101 class.

Most of us managed to recreate the Finnish sound if even only a little bit.

And then there was David. He managed to make kiitos (thank you) sound like 'cheetos' every single time, even though the 'os' bit in kiitos is a short sound, not a long one if you see what I mean. At the time I wondered whether he really couldn't say it differently. And it wasn't the only word he kept pronunciating in an American way.

It didn't really bother me, you know, whatever made him happy, but I've never forgotten it. As a side note: he used to correct us every time we said trousers instead of pants cos it was apparently 'wrong'. Ah well.

When Ed spoke Dutch in Arnhem, he did not have the drawl that some American people have in Dutch. And he even managed the 'g' in 'Heel erg bedankt' (thank you very much). Very impressive

decides2dream · October 2006

ScotInAmsterdam wrote:

Hard to describe in text, but I know what pegasus means. It's really horrible when you hear Americans murder foreign languages with a strong accent over it. They are not the only offenders... I've heard some pretty awful English accents too, and australian, although I refer more to the people who speak the languages rather than people that are trying a few phrases for a few days...

The best way I can describe it is to say "Par lay voo fron say" with as strong a new jersey(or similar recognisable accent) as you can muster. I know people who are conversationally good in dutch but speak like that... with various accents. One of the worst being a german girl I know. She has an almost comedy German accent, but tries really hard in dutch. She has almost perfect written dutch, but speaks with some sort of German stereotype accent, which most Germans I know don't even have. All she needs to do is make an effort with the accent.

Ed was really far away from that... he seemed to have made some effort to pick up the local accent, but I think hes half way there anyway. One of my tricks for speaking languages(I am far from expert, but get a way with a few phrases in most european languages), is to mumble.. and we all know Ed is wonderful at that.....

okay, gotcha there. obviously, not being able to speak a foreign language with any degree of fluency myself, just a few phrases here and there....i wouldn't necessarily be able to pick up on it. although too, as you said, wouldn't think we americans would corner the market on bad accents, but sure.....now i understand.

grazie.

me, i have a lovely NY accent, altho i have been told it is a arather 'soft' one....and i have also been complimented on my very limited usage/accent in spanish/italian, but perhaps they were simply being nice.

haha.

riot rain - thanks for the further clarification. i guess a lot of it is rather dependent on effort and personality, like many things.

when studying over in the czech republic, i actually had an indian roommate. her name was/is smriti. dear god, what an issue i had with those 3 consonants!

try as i may, i continually fucked it up..., always added a bit of an 'e' sound in there...altho eventually, i think scot is right, i managed to do it justice decently, with a bit of a mumble.

haha.

ScotInAmsterdam · October 2006

She's clearly in the wrong... she needs to buy a vowel...

Heineken Helen · October 2006

Well I used to be fluent in French but could never ever master the 'R' sound and after months of trying really hard and coming up with some phlegmy sound I quit trying and just kept to saying the 'R' as I do in English. It just wasn't working for me and I know years and years of trying would only make it sound worse

But I'm presuming the notes were writting for Ed phonetically??? I doubt he could muster all the different pronunciations of several languages on his own.

redrock · October 2006

decides2dream wrote:

or does the fact that we are evil incarnate normally come out in our american accents?

:D Yep... people run away and cross themselves when they hear an american accent (though most Europeans would also include the canadian and australian accent in there because they can't tell the difference - except in the UK and Ireland)

redrock · October 2006

Heineken Helen wrote:

I doubt he could muster all the different pronunciations of several languages on his own.

Maybe he has a natural ability for languages, if he wanted....

lgt · October 2006

Heineken Helen wrote:

But I'm presuming the notes were writting for Ed phonetically??? I doubt he could muster all the different pronunciations of several languages on his own.

That might have really been the case, although Ed still mispronounced patria as petria (when he was talking about Italy being the second homeland) and that was pretty hilarious!!

He did pronounce everything else pretty well, without the standard mistakes that English-speakers make in Italian. (Not only the R sound but the GN and GL sound that do not exist in the English language, as we don't have the TH). I was quite impressed, notes or no notes, to be honest.

And he did ad-lib on his goodbye in Milano and proved he knows the Italian verb declination, as he found the 1st person plural of the verb amare all by himself!

It has been a really nice touch of them to speak in the local language of every country they visited, I must say.

Heineken Helen · October 2006

lgt wrote:

It has been a really nice touch of them to speak in the local language of every country they visited, I must say.

Definitely! Although I have to admit on a purely selfish basis, it was pretty fucking annoying to not have a clue what he was talking about and hearing everyone cheer

And it was funny when he kept saying 'you know' in the middle of all the Italian

lgt · October 2006

Heineken Helen wrote:

Definitely! Although I have to admit on a purely selfish basis, it was pretty fucking annoying to not have a clue what he was talking about and hearing everyone cheer

And it was funny when he kept saying 'you know' in the middle of all the Italian

I did think of that!! But then on a purely selfish basis too, I was happy to hear him talk in Italian

So many reasons to love this band!

GyöngyLekvár · October 2006

i just cant wait to hear him talk hungarian...

ScotInAmsterdam · October 2006

Heineken Helen wrote:

Definitely! Although I have to admit on a purely selfish basis, it was pretty fucking annoying to not have a clue what he was talking about and hearing everyone cheer

And it was funny when he kept saying 'you know' in the middle of all the Italian

I know what you mean... it;s good fun... but essentially if you don't speak the language you're getting a show without talking...

Heineken Helen · October 2006

lgt wrote:

I did think of that!! But then on a purely selfish basis too, I was happy to hear him talk in Italian

So many reasons to love this band!

Now I'm a little jealous he never tried his hand at Irish

although nobody would have understood him

Question for those attending European shows

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