W-W-Y-D?

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Shorty wrote:

Thanks again for the help/info/insight folks - much appreciated.

I guess the only side of the argument that the seller would have is - "I asked you not to declair the poster's true value" - which I get - but - I didn't declaire it at any value - I insured it - and here in Canada when you do that - insurance comes in stagered amounts - so you can insure something for (I think the amounts were) $100-$200 for $x.xx. Within this range - the poster could have been worth $100.07, or $176.31, or $108.78, or $199.99 - you get my drift. Had the paperwork been for $170.00 or less - he would be paying nothing.

Does that matter at all? Now the sellers country is using what I insured it for to declaire a value on it.

I feel bad about this - I don't want him to have to ship the poster back to me just so I can send it back to him with little insurance - or still the same insurance but just show it as $170 on the paperwork.

This sucks,

Agreed. I know I've sounded like I've been saying you SHOULD pay. I earlier said - it's the buyer's responsibility. And it is. My only point is, perhaps there's something you can do to help him out. Again, no obligation. And it sucks for both of you. But, this is where philosophical meets reality. Philosophical, it's clear everyone says - it's his/her expense (I concur). Reality says ??? And that's the tough part. We don't live in the philosophical.

There is no "philosophical" angle to it. This is a black and white matter, no grey in the middle here. When one purchases goods from abroad and said goods are shipped to the buyer, the buyer's home country will charge import duties/taxes/customs charges. Whether the seller is an eBay seller, a seller from this forum, an online merchant is irrelevant. All additional import taxes and fees are always the buyer's responsibility (legally).

Asking a seller to undervalue a shipment is considered mail fraud, hence it's considered illegal.

chinobaeza wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

when arrive at my home ,postman ask me 135$ for taxis for deliver......

How many "taxis" did the post man take from the post office to your home?? ...just kidding

EdsonNascimento wrote:

100 Pacer wrote:

There is no "philosophical" angle to it. This is a black and white matter, no grey in the middle here. When one purchases goods from abroad and said goods are shipped to the buyer, the buyer's home country will charge import duties/taxes/customs charges. Whether the seller is an eBay seller, a seller from this forum, an online merchant is irrelevant. All additional import taxes and fees are always the buyer's responsibility (legally).

Asking a seller to undervalue a shipment is considered mail fraud, hence it's considered illegal.

Didn't explain well enough. I don't mean philosophy like Socrates. I mean common ethical philosophy. So, yes - it is black and white. Did not mean to make that sound different.

But, then reality occurs, and he's where he is. Then what? You can go with the black & white. Absolutely nothing wrong with that tact.

And, again - I don't think 1 person in here has suggested undervaluing a shipment.

Shorty wrote:

OK - thanks everyone - here is the current situation.....

(Understanding - the poster is worth $200 - and I insured it for $200 - it's because of this valuation that the buyer has to pay $110.00 tax in his country before they'll release it to them)

.....now the buyer is saying - I'll have them send it back to you - send it back to me and send it with no insured value - then he won't have to pay $110.00 in taxes.

Thoughts?

Hello everyone,

I'm confused. When does a severe tax like that get imposed? And where? I bought a poster from Demetrios and i'm in Pennsylvania and he lives in Canada and I didn't pay a thing to get it other then the asking price which included shipping.

I for one would be ok claiming $0 on the value. That tax is just a way to hold you over the coals. I'd take the risk, unless, as stated before by others, it was a serious piece. 60% is ridiculous.

Next time have the seller claim nothing and get the print for what you paid. I think people on this forum are some of the coolest folks i've met, so I would think if there was a huge mix up that arrangements could be made to sort things out.

I understand your already out 200 bucks and not knowing is tough, but insurance is a scam from the jump, we all know this. Their selling you your own fear. Perhaps if your buying a print that it of significant value, either money wise or sentimental, I wold say have the seller send the print in a much thicker and stronger tube. I've seen tubes that I could stand on, and I'm 220 pounds. The only reason you should need insurance like that is if the seller is mailing it out in a flimsy unreliable tube.

With proper handling before shipping on the sellers part, I would trust my holy grail in the mail with no insurance if the tube was top quality, thick and taped up good.

If customs opens the tube and inspects, they still have no way of knowing the value and they can't just assume.

Am I off base?

Mike_McQ wrote:

Hello everyone,

I'm confused. When does a severe tax like that get imposed? And where? I bought a poster from Demetrios and i'm in Pennsylvania and he lives in Canada and I didn't pay a thing to get it other then the asking price which included shipping.

I for one would be ok claiming $0 on the value. That tax is just a way to hold you over the coals. I'd take the risk, unless, as stated before by others, it was a serious piece. 60% is ridiculous.

Next time have the seller claim nothing and get the print for what you paid. I think people on this forum are some of the coolest folks i've met, so I would think if there was a huge mix up that arrangements could be made to sort things out.

I understand your already out 200 bucks and not knowing is tough, but insurance is a scam from the jump, we all know this. Their selling you your own fear. Perhaps if your buying a print that it of significant value, either money wise or sentimental, I wold say have the seller send the print in a much thicker and stronger tube. I've seen tubes that I could stand on, and I'm 220 pounds. The only reason you should need insurance like that is if the seller is mailing it out in a flimsy unreliable tube.

With proper handling before shipping on the sellers part, I would trust my holy grail in the mail with no insurance if the tube was top quality, thick and taped up good.

If customs opens the tube and inspects, they still have no way of knowing the value and they can't just assume.

Am I off base?

I purchased an EV Kenyon Hall poster from 10C but the poster never arrived. Of all the posters I've purchased from 10C over the years, this poster was either lost or stolen in transit. After 90 days 10C refunded the cost of the poster plus shipping back to me but I was left without the poster. The quality of 10C's poster tube wasn't called into question, nor did I doubt that 10C actually mailed the poster tube to me. Having said that, the poster didn't arrive.

If I had purchased the same poster from a private seller and paid $200 for it and it was lost or stolen in transit BUT was tracked and insured the seller would have refunded my purchase price and submitted a claim with the carrier for a refund on the postage and insured value. If an item wasn't insured and tracking wasn't provided, what prevents a dishonest buyer from receiving an item and then filing a fraudulent claim with Paypal for an item not received OR what prevents a dishonest seller from claiming an item was sent without documentation?

Unless a seller takes steps to protect his/her own interests by insuring and tracking a shipment, Paypal will almost always side against the seller. Regardless of how well I package the item, regardless of my reputation in the buyer/seller/trader community, regardless of who my buyer is the bottom line is I don't trust valuable shipments to chance or blind faith. I trust I'm not in the minority for thinking that.

yes, this mostly happens US to Europe

i would have to say that you guys sound like you have money to burn. those sentiments make it obvious that you've never been burned by a damaged item or a paypal claim for an "item not as described" when it shows up half destroyed and you didn't insure it. i have bought, sold, packed, and shipped THOUSANDS of items- maybe tens of thousands including business and collecting. shit happens. tubes roll. doors close, conveyor belts catch things, trucks wreck, heavy crap gets piled or tossed on top of it...all sorts of shit. the more you ship, the more likely it is to happen. usps, ups, fed ex, happens with all of them.

by the way, how are you going to get them to sign for it? you have to purchase service that includes signature for the most part. insure something for more than 250 bucks and usps requires a signature, or they leave the little slip in your mailbox and you have to go pick it up in person. where they make you sign for it and show id. most of the private ground services will just leave the shit next to the person's front door if you don't purchase the extra service level.

look, i wasn't such an anal prick about all this shit until i offered the buyer insurance instead of requiring it, they declined, the item got damaged, and they filed the claim through paypal. you can forward them the buyer's refusals all you want, the item got there "not as described'. doesn't matter HOW it got not as described. it just isn't anymore. paypal sez: you lose.

but really, it wasn't until it happened to me that i changed my tune and understood why all the veterans had been saying what i'm telling you now.

EdsonNascimento wrote:

dangerboy wrote:

i would have to say that you guys sound like you have money to burn. those sentiments make it obvious that you've never been burned by a damaged item or a paypal claim for an "item not as described" when it shows up half destroyed and you didn't insure it. i have bought, sold, packed, and shipped THOUSANDS of items- maybe tens of thousands including business and collecting. shit happens. tubes roll. doors close, conveyor belts catch things, trucks wreck, heavy crap gets piled or tossed on top of it...all sorts of shit. the more you ship, the more likely it is to happen. usps, ups, fed ex, happens with all of them.

You are right. I am not running a business (or selling tons of stuff which to me is in fact a business). But, I also wouldn't shop with a business you describe. Amazon insures everything they send to me. They don't ask for me to pay it.

No money to burn. But, $200? Really? You're going to pay $20 to insure $200 (I'm guessing at this pricing as that's what I've seen the range of)? That makes no logical risk sense. That means you think one out of 10 items will be damaged. You do a ton more than me. So, maybe that is the risk level.

Again - as you talk about higher $'s, I absolutely get it. Where's that number? As you alluded to - depends on what money you have to burn. But, $200? - you shouldn't be purchasing a piece of paper for $200 if you can't take that risk. There must be something better to spend your money on.

Now I've given a nickel - much more than anyone wants to hear from me.

I can only speak to my experience with Canada Post and state that when I ship a poster with the particular actual postage I charge $100 worth of insurance is included, with additional insurance sold in increments of $100 for a fee of $1 per each additional $100.

Amazon's business model is built to absorb replacement/insurance/theft/damage costs, and yes you're paying for those fees (albeit hidden in the price of any particular item). Someone selling a handful of posters every year doesn't share Amazon's business model, and realistically can't be expected to operate the same way.

EdsonNascimento wrote:

100 Pacer wrote:

I can only speak to my experience with Canada Post and state that when I ship a poster with the particular actual postage I charge $100 worth of insurance is included, with additional insurance sold in increments of $100 for a fee of $1 per each additional $100.

Amazon's business model is built to absorb replacement/insurance/theft/damage costs, and yes you're paying for those fees (albeit hidden in the price of any particular item). Someone selling a handful of posters every year doesn't share Amazon's business model, and realistically can't be expected to operate the same way.

Interesting. So, on a $200 purchase price, you could have half of it insured with no add'l expense and then indicate it's worth the paper it's printed on. Hmmmm......

(And yes, I know for Amazon it's "included." But, I don't buy from them unless they are lowest price with that included. Which is most of the time).

Not quite.

It costs between $20-$25 depending on poster tube dimensions, actual weight, and destination for me to ship a poster with tracking, insurance, delivery confirmation, and signature required anywhere within North America and the poster tube arrives within 5 business days.

To ship the same item without any of the services above it would take anywhere between 10-15 business days and cost $15-$20 depending on poster tube dimensions, actual weight, and destination.

So the cost of insuring the 1st $100 of the item's value is priced into the more expensive and more secure form of shipment. Which makes my cost to ship a $200 poster anywhere in North America between $20-$25 plus an additional $1.

Totally agree it`s on buyer. Unless it`s Shortcake, then he pays. It`s a law up here.