W-W-Y-D?

Shorty

What would you do.....

Mark sells a poster to Tom - Mark lives in North America - Tom lives in a European country. Tom sends $$$ via paypal as a gift - Mark insures the poster for the appropriate value - and at Tom's request, Mark sends an email to a governing body in Tom's country advising that the poster is a gift.

Tom (buyer) is now advising Mark (seller) that there is tax on the poster entering his country - roughly 60% of the poster's insured value.

What would you do if you were Mark (seller) or Tom (buyer)?

White Discussion

Maybe split the cost? A tough situation for sure

Shorty wrote:

What would you do.....

Mark sells a poster to Tom - Mark lives in North America - Tom lives in a European country. Tom sends $$$ via paypal as a gift - Mark insures the poster for the appropriate value - and at Tom's request, Mark sends an email to a governing body in Tom's country advising that the poster is a gift.

Tom (buyer) is now advising Mark (seller) that there is tax on the poster entering his country - roughly 60% of the poster's insured value.

What would you do if you were Mark (seller) or Tom (buyer)?

dangerboy

Sorry, seller not responsible for taxes and duties imposed by country of the buyer.

100 Pacer

dangerboy wrote:

Sorry, seller not responsible for taxes and duties imposed by country of the buyer.

^^^

As a seller you should never undervalue a print shipped to another country. Any additional customs charges are always the responsibility of the buyer. As a seller you're under no obligation to cover additional customs charges.

ahill721

I agree with the other comments. Any charges added to the buyers item due to their Countries policies are for the buyer to pay.

flyinwhole313

dangerboy wrote:

Sorry, seller not responsible for taxes and duties imposed by country of the buyer.

Yeah, what the boy said.

rustneversleeps

buyer eats the cost, no doubt.

EdsonNascimento

It's buyer's cost. This is simple:

1) Once they pay you, it's theirs
2) Buyer can decide not to insure it (it's a piece of paper. Unless it's a $500 piece of paper, why bother? They don't lose money on insurance )
3) If Buyer wants to insure it, that and all ancillary costs are clearly theirs. It's not sellers decision what to do with someone else's property (see #1)
4) You are not Amazon or something similar where you have a huge business that basically insures itself. So, using that type of analogy where returns are free and easy is not appropriate.

chinobaeza

dangerboy wrote:

Sorry, seller not responsible for taxes and duties imposed by country of the buyer.

+1000
When I used to live in Chile never thought of asking the seller to split the import taxes

dangerboy

100 Pacer wrote:

dangerboy wrote:

Sorry, seller not responsible for taxes and duties imposed by country of the buyer.

^^^

As a seller you should never undervalue a print shipped to another country.

this one is important, too. if you sell one for $500, then declare it at $100, you can only insure it for $100. if you only insure it for 100 and it gets destroyed, the seller WILL LOSE the buyer's paypal claim that item arrived not as described. your only option then will be to try to get the 100 bucks back, but then you're out the print + $400...

also, i don't do "optional" insurance. if it's more money than I, as the seller, am willing to risk losing then it gets insurance. i factor shipping into my asking price. on the other hand, i refuse to ship international almost without fail. insurance and international shipping have to be calculated first, then paid by the buyer. usually, i'll give them 10-15 credit towards that cost, since it was added to the asking price to start with....

Shorty

OK - thanks everyone - here is the current situation.....

(Understanding - the poster is worth $200 - and I insured it for $200 - it's because of this valuation that the buyer has to pay $110.00 tax in his country before they'll release it to them)

.....now the buyer is saying - I'll have them send it back to you - send it back to me and send it with no insured value - then he won't have to pay $110.00 in taxes.

Thoughts?

Duncs

Be careful with this...there could be duty coming back in as well as shipping charges that will be due when you re-pickup the poster at the post office. I would say tell him to eat the 110. Insured for the proper value is always the right way to go.

EdsonNascimento

Shorty wrote:

OK - thanks everyone - here is the current situation.....

(Understanding - the poster is worth $200 - and I insured it for $200 - it's because of this valuation that the buyer has to pay $110.00 tax in his country before they'll release it to them)

.....now the buyer is saying - I'll have them send it back to you - send it back to me and send it with no insured value - then he won't have to pay $110.00 in taxes.

Thoughts?

I don't know what country, but boy you have to love National Health Care and other such Socialized things. 55% import tax? That is insane. Oops!! Wrong forum. Nevermind. Carry on. :oops:

If I was the buyer I would not have insured a $200 item. So, now they've paid $20 or so in insurance (just guessing) and need to come up with another $110 in taxes. I can understand their frustration. Not your expense, but you might want to consider trying to defray some of that just to consumate the deal. Again - I think its 100% the buyer's expense. But, reality sometimes forces other decisions.

EDIT: Realized you probably still had to declare value even if you don't insure. I agree with not undervaluing it, but I think it's fair to say you could have valued it at what you originally paid less depreciaton. And, I'd have to assume standard depreciaton on a piece of paper is pretty close to 100% once it leaves the shop.

dangerboy

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Shorty wrote:

OK - thanks everyone - here is the current situation.....

(Understanding - the poster is worth $200 - and I insured it for $200 - it's because of this valuation that the buyer has to pay $110.00 tax in his country before they'll release it to them)

.....now the buyer is saying - I'll have them send it back to you - send it back to me and send it with no insured value - then he won't have to pay $110.00 in taxes.

Thoughts?

I don't know what country, but boy you have to love National Health Care and other such Socialized things. 55% import tax? That is insane. Oops!! Wrong forum. Nevermind. Carry on. :oops:

If I was the buyer I would not have insured a $200 item. So, now they've paid $20 or so in insurance (just guessing) and need to come up with another $110 in taxes. I can understand their frustration. Not your expense, but you might want to consider trying to defray some of that just to consumate the deal. Again - I think its 100% the buyer's expense. But, reality sometimes forces other decisions.

EDIT: Realized you probably still had to declare value even if you don't insure. I agree with not undervaluing it, but I think it's fair to say you could have valued it at what you originally paid less depreciaton. And, I'd have to assume standard depreciaton on a piece of paper is pretty close to 100% once it leaves the shop.

insurance is not just to protect the buyer. i don't offer it as an "option".i require it and won't sell you the item if you don't agree, especially international. trust me: lost one "item not as described" claim through paypal, even though you can provide them copies of ebay messages wherein the buyer DECLINED insurance, and you'll change your tune. they don't care. it's on the seller.

as to your edit, you cannot insure for more than the value declared. if you like playing the odds, fine. i work too hard for my money to risk it at the hands of some pissed off mailman or international cargo worker.

my bottom line is: anyone who doesn't insure a package they are SENDING containing an item they've SOLD is risking every cent of it. there's no other way around it. like my dad always said "it's all fun and games til somebody needs stitches, isn't it?" you'll think not insuring is awesome until you lose money when an item gets damaged. and it will.

100 Pacer

dangerboy wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Shorty wrote:

OK - thanks everyone - here is the current situation.....

(Understanding - the poster is worth $200 - and I insured it for $200 - it's because of this valuation that the buyer has to pay $110.00 tax in his country before they'll release it to them)

.....now the buyer is saying - I'll have them send it back to you - send it back to me and send it with no insured value - then he won't have to pay $110.00 in taxes.

Thoughts?

I don't know what country, but boy you have to love National Health Care and other such Socialized things. 55% import tax? That is insane. Oops!! Wrong forum. Nevermind. Carry on. :oops:

If I was the buyer I would not have insured a $200 item. So, now they've paid $20 or so in insurance (just guessing) and need to come up with another $110 in taxes. I can understand their frustration. Not your expense, but you might want to consider trying to defray some of that just to consumate the deal. Again - I think its 100% the buyer's expense. But, reality sometimes forces other decisions.

EDIT: Realized you probably still had to declare value even if you don't insure. I agree with not undervaluing it, but I think it's fair to say you could have valued it at what you originally paid less depreciaton. And, I'd have to assume standard depreciaton on a piece of paper is pretty close to 100% once it leaves the shop.

insurance is not just to protect the buyer. i don't offer it as an "option".i require it and won't sell you the item if you don't agree, especially international. trust me: lost one "item not as described" claim through paypal, even though you can provide them copies of ebay messages wherein the buyer DECLINED insurance, and you'll change your tune. they don't care. it's on the seller.

as to your edit, you cannot insure for more than the value declared. if you like playing the odds, fine. i work too hard for my money to risk it at the hands of some pissed off mailman or international cargo worker.

my bottom line is: anyone who doesn't insure a package they are SENDING containing an item they've SOLD is risking every cent of it. there's no other way around it. like my dad always said "it's all fun and games til somebody needs stitches, isn't it?" you'll think not insuring is awesome until you lose money when an item gets damaged. and it will.

Listen to what this man is telling you.

dangerboy

Shorty wrote:

OK - thanks everyone - here is the current situation.....

(Understanding - the poster is worth $200 - and I insured it for $200 - it's because of this valuation that the buyer has to pay $110.00 tax in his country before they'll release it to them)

.....now the buyer is saying - I'll have them send it back to you - send it back to me and send it with no insured value - then he won't have to pay $110.00 in taxes.

Thoughts?

don't do it. i know you want to make the sale, but if he sends it back to you, refund him and relist...


*these opinions have been formed through the process of having bought and sold tens of thousands of dollars worth of items on ebay and forums such as this one over the last 15+ years. any advice i give you is how i would operate, and usually because i've been in that situation before.

stickman81

what would Yanni do?

EdsonNascimento

dangerboy wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Shorty wrote:

OK - thanks everyone - here is the current situation.....

(Understanding - the poster is worth $200 - and I insured it for $200 - it's because of this valuation that the buyer has to pay $110.00 tax in his country before they'll release it to them)

.....now the buyer is saying - I'll have them send it back to you - send it back to me and send it with no insured value - then he won't have to pay $110.00 in taxes.

Thoughts?

I don't know what country, but boy you have to love National Health Care and other such Socialized things. 55% import tax? That is insane. Oops!! Wrong forum. Nevermind. Carry on. :oops:

If I was the buyer I would not have insured a $200 item. So, now they've paid $20 or so in insurance (just guessing) and need to come up with another $110 in taxes. I can understand their frustration. Not your expense, but you might want to consider trying to defray some of that just to consumate the deal. Again - I think its 100% the buyer's expense. But, reality sometimes forces other decisions.

EDIT: Realized you probably still had to declare value even if you don't insure. I agree with not undervaluing it, but I think it's fair to say you could have valued it at what you originally paid less depreciaton. And, I'd have to assume standard depreciaton on a piece of paper is pretty close to 100% once it leaves the shop.

insurance is not just to protect the buyer. i don't offer it as an "option".i require it and won't sell you the item if you don't agree, especially international. trust me: lost one "item not as described" claim through paypal, even though you can provide them copies of ebay messages wherein the buyer DECLINED insurance, and you'll change your tune. they don't care. it's on the seller.

as to your edit, you cannot insure for more than the value declared. if you like playing the odds, fine. i work too hard for my money to risk it at the hands of some pissed off mailman or international cargo worker.

my bottom line is: anyone who doesn't insure a package they are SENDING containing an item they've SOLD is risking every cent of it. there's no other way around it. like my dad always said "it's all fun and games til somebody needs stitches, isn't it?" you'll think not insuring is awesome until you lose money when an item gets damaged. and it will.

All well and good. As seller, I'd take that chance. First, I'm sure you didn't pay $200 for whatever it is, so you're really not out that. You're only out what you paid for it. Yes , the difference is opportunity cost, but I'm sure the insurance isn't worth the imaginary opportunity cost. And second, it's $200. I'm sure you could think of more than $200 youve wasted on crap in less time than it took you to read this. Basically, you're self insuring.

Your other option is this sceario. Is what the seller actually paid for the item worth it? Good luck, but remember, insurance companies make money, not lose it. And the less you are insuring, the more margin they take. Actuarial tables would most likely tell you this isn't worth it.

whoyouare72

dangerboy wrote:

Sorry, seller not responsible for taxes and duties imposed by country of the buyer.

Agreed, this cost is 100% the buyer's responsibility.

Shorty

Thanks again for the help/info/insight folks - much appreciated.

I guess the only side of the argument that the seller would have is - "I asked you not to declair the poster's true value" - which I get - but - I didn't declaire it at any value - I insured it - and here in Canada when you do that - insurance comes in stagered amounts - so you can insure something for (I think the amounts were) $100-$200 for $x.xx. Within this range - the poster could have been worth $100.07, or $176.31, or $108.78, or $199.99 - you get my drift. Had the paperwork been for $170.00 or less - he would be paying nothing.

Does that matter at all? Now the sellers country is using what I insured it for to declaire a value on it.

I feel bad about this - I don't want him to have to ship the poster back to me just so I can send it back to him with little insurance - or still the same insurance but just show it as $170 on the paperwork.

This sucks,

EdsonNascimento

Shorty wrote:

Thanks again for the help/info/insight folks - much appreciated.

I guess the only side of the argument that the seller would have is - "I asked you not to declair the poster's true value" - which I get - but - I didn't declaire it at any value - I insured it - and here in Canada when you do that - insurance comes in stagered amounts - so you can insure something for (I think the amounts were) $100-$200 for $x.xx. Within this range - the poster could have been worth $100.07, or $176.31, or $108.78, or $199.99 - you get my drift. Had the paperwork been for $170.00 or less - he would be paying nothing.

Does that matter at all? Now the sellers country is using what I insured it for to declaire a value on it.

I feel bad about this - I don't want him to have to ship the poster back to me just so I can send it back to him with little insurance - or still the same insurance but just show it as $170 on the paperwork.

This sucks,

Agreed. I know I've sounded like I've been saying you SHOULD pay. I earlier said - it's the buyer's responsibility. And it is. My only point is, perhaps there's something you can do to help him out. Again, no obligation. And it sucks for both of you. But, this is where philosophical meets reality. Philosophical, it's clear everyone says - it's his/her expense (I concur). Reality says ??? And that's the tough part. We don't live in the philosophical.