What Have We Done To Iraq?

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Comments

  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Caveeze wrote:
    Most respectfully, I am sure you have never left a roadside bomb in Iraq.. I find it funny that anyone who hasn't left a roadside bomb in Iraq can get into the head of someone who has..

    Maybe they planted a roadside bomb to kill american troops.. and they obviously had no regard for the fact that this roadside bomb may not explode in the timely fashion to kill american troops.. they had no regard for the fact that maybe their roadside bomb sucks! and it may go off at a later date, killing people that they never intended to kill.. The responsibility then falls on the person that laid the bomb...

    I hate the fact that we were ever over there.. I always will

    but we cant be blamed for every individual action.

    Or....maybe we're not talking about roadside bombs here at all. Maybe what we're actually discussing are the daily bombings of police recruiting stations, and market places, e.t.c, by people planting explosive devices, and also by suicide bombers.

    What's with your fixation on roadside bombs?
  • CAVSTARR313
    CAVSTARR313 Posts: 8,756
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Caveeze wrote:
    Who is planting/has left those roadside bombs? americans?

    Maybe Al-Qaeda, or maybe Muslim extremists. Why? Do you really think Americans can just wash their hands of any responsibility for these atrocities? There was no Al-Qaeda in Iraq before the U.S tore the country apart.
    Read my above post.. no matter a person's affiliation.. they are still a person.. right? regardless of who they can blame poor behavior on? blame america.. blame another tribe.. blame anyone!! the fact remains, a single person actively chose to engage in the potential killing of other humans... PERIOD!!
    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
    Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Caveeze wrote:
    Read my above post.. no matter a person's affiliation.. they are still a person.. right? regardless of who they can blame poor behavior on? blame america.. blame another tribe.. blame anyone!! the fact remains, a single person actively chose to engage in the potential killing of other humans... PERIOD!!

    In that case, you must have been strongly opposed to both the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq on the grounds that the terrorists responsible for 9/11 all died when their planes hit the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, right?

    Oh, and you can cut it with the Caps Lock bullshit.
  • CAVSTARR313
    CAVSTARR313 Posts: 8,756
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Caveeze wrote:
    Most respectfully, I am sure you have never left a roadside bomb in Iraq.. I find it funny that anyone who hasn't left a roadside bomb in Iraq can get into the head of someone who has..

    Maybe they planted a roadside bomb to kill american troops.. and they obviously had no regard for the fact that this roadside bomb may not explode in the timely fashion to kill american troops.. they had no regard for the fact that maybe their roadside bomb sucks! and it may go off at a later date, killing people that they never intended to kill.. The responsibility then falls on the person that laid the bomb...

    I hate the fact that we were ever over there.. I always will

    but we cant be blamed for every individual action.

    Or....maybe we're not talking about roadside bombs here at all. Maybe what we're actually discussing are the daily bombings of police recruiting stations, and market places, e.t.c, by people planting explosive devices, and also by suicide bombers.

    What's with your fixation on roadside bombs?
    I was just going off of what you had originally posted.. the original post had talked about roadside bombs..

    just speaking about something I believe in.. Personal Responsibly.. No matter the political climate.. or the group you hide behind.. a person is still responsible for their actions!! why doesn't anyone see this?
    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
    Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
  • CAVSTARR313
    CAVSTARR313 Posts: 8,756
    edited March 2012
    p
    Post edited by CAVSTARR313 on
    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
    Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Caveeze wrote:
    just speaking about something I believe in.. Personal Responsibly.. No matter the political climate.. or the group you hide behind.. a person is still responsible for their actions!! why doesn't anyone see this?

    We do see it, but it ignores the bigger picture. People do not exist within a vacuum. They are effected and influenced by events in the World around them.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Caveeze wrote:
    I dont believe anything my government tells me about that day.. never will.. some person, or people were directly responsible for fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, friends losing their life that day.. doesn't matter if the official explanation is true or not.. again, it boils down to personal responsibility.. i

    But according to your logic the only person responsible is the one pulling the trigger. Therefore Hitler was innocent.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    By the way, I notice that Brandon made pretty much the same points as me before I posted them. Apologies if you think I was parroting you Brandon.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    when you invade another country under false pretenses.. or even under any pretense at all, you must be prepared to take responsibility for any power void you leave.and in doing so any actions resulting from that void. you cant sit there and say well it aint us doing all the bombing and shit. its like the guy who dropped his pitbull over our fence so itd attack our labrador. he didnt personally do our dog damage but he made it possible, you know? if you arent prepared to take that responsibility then dont invade other countries. i do however agree that people should be accountable for their actions.. be they civilian, terrorist, government or military.
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  • CAVSTARR313
    CAVSTARR313 Posts: 8,756
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Caveeze wrote:
    just speaking about something I believe in.. Personal Responsibly.. No matter the political climate.. or the group you hide behind.. a person is still responsible for their actions!! why doesn't anyone see this?

    We do see it, but it ignores the bigger picture. People do not exist within a vacuum. They are effected and influenced by events in the World around them.


    well, then that is what I believe to be the main decease.. change happens a person at a time.. one belief at a time.. and no other way..

    I would never kill someone in the name of political or monetary gain... period..

    you can blame all you want, but the fact remains that people do this shit.. and until people change, this will always happen.. I have have changed.. and I will never place blame for my actions on another.. or a "political" belief..

    Personal responsibility!!! it is a wild thought...
    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
    Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
  • CAVSTARR313
    CAVSTARR313 Posts: 8,756
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Caveeze wrote:
    I dont believe anything my government tells me about that day.. never will.. some person, or people were directly responsible for fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, friends losing their life that day.. doesn't matter if the official explanation is true or not.. again, it boils down to personal responsibility.. i

    But according to your logic the only person responsible is the one pulling the trigger. Therefore Hitler was innocent.
    reading the back posts, holy fuck man!? are you serious? Hitler had his own personal responsibility.. every man and woman is inclined to do the right thing..

    My logic is that of personal responsibility for your life.. and then, how it affects others.. and what you believe in.. Hitler was a person in power, and clearly made horrific choices for the the better good of man..
    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
    Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    Caveeze wrote:

    We had no reason to be there, and we must answer for the crimes we participated in..

    We had no reason to be there? and how do we answer for those crimes?
  • CAVSTARR313
    CAVSTARR313 Posts: 8,756
    Idris wrote:
    Caveeze wrote:

    We had no reason to be there, and we must answer for the crimes we participated in..

    We had no reason to be there? and how do we answer for those crimes?
    In my eyes, no.. Americans had no reason to be in Iraq..

    what was the benefit from american troops being in Iraq? in your opinion?
    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
    Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
  • CAVSTARR313
    CAVSTARR313 Posts: 8,756
    and you changed your post :D
    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
    Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Caveeze wrote:
    you can blame all you want, but the fact remains that people do this shit.. and until people change, this will always happen.. I have have changed.. and I will never place blame for my actions on another.. or a "political" belief..

    Personal responsibility!!! it is a wild thought...

    So Americans have no responsibility for the effects of the invasion?

    You think you can just ransack a country and then wash your hands of the consequences?
  • CAVSTARR313
    CAVSTARR313 Posts: 8,756
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Caveeze wrote:
    you can blame all you want, but the fact remains that people do this shit.. and until people change, this will always happen.. I have have changed.. and I will never place blame for my actions on another.. or a "political" belief..

    Personal responsibility!!! it is a wild thought...

    So Americans have no responsibility for the effects of the invasion? You think you can just ransack a country and then wash your hands of the consequences?


    People do.. choices they made.. and they should be held responsible for what they have chose to do. Don't just say Americans.. many of us fought against this.

    but I am an american.. and I have ransacked no country.. I didn't vote for it, and my voice was never even heard or considered..

    The situation just blows, and I am well aware of that..

    I just can wish that persons, all around the world, will someday realize the destruction they cause.. then correct it..
    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
    Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
  • brandon10
    brandon10 Posts: 1,114
    Byrnzie wrote:
    By the way, I notice that Brandon made pretty much the same points as me before I posted them. Apologies if you think I was parroting you Brandon.


    No worries. After reading the resulting posts I think both of our posts have been pointless.
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    Caveeze wrote:
    Idris wrote:
    Caveeze wrote:

    We had no reason to be there, and we must answer for the crimes we participated in..

    We had no reason to be there? and how do we answer for those crimes?
    In my eyes, no.. Americans had no reason to be in Iraq..

    Right, But America did have a reason to go into Iraq. Did they not?

    Also how do we answer for those crimes?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Caveeze wrote:
    but I am an american.. and I have ransacked no country.. I didn't vote for it, and my voice was never even heard or considered...

    But your tax dollars helped pay for it. Don't you feel even a tiny bit ashamed of, or disgusted by, what your government has done in your name?
  • CAVSTARR313
    CAVSTARR313 Posts: 8,756
    brandon10 wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    By the way, I notice that Brandon made pretty much the same points as me before I posted them. Apologies if you think I was parroting you Brandon.


    No worries. After reading the resulting posts I think both of our posts have been pointless.


    Cause and effect.. It has happened throughout time.. and until personal decisions are made to stop the cycle.. it will continue.. Don't do it! then convince your neighbor not to do it! then maybe, they will do the same..

    to tell you the truth guys, I got most fired up just by everyone saying "Americans"..

    like most of us had any say at all... its just sad.. and I , we, most change this..

    It is clear that we are all sort of on the same team.. now what has to change (including within me) to get us to unite?
    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
    Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13

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