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  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Cosmo wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    Cosmo, I work very very close to the Troubador; I'll look into that for sure!
    ...
    McCready... the songs of UFO... for charity How can we pass that up, right?
    ...
    I love UFO! My sister and I used to listen to the live album in her bedroom...on vinyl yet :mrgreen:

    I hope to make this work.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    hedonist wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    Cosmo, I work very very close to the Troubador; I'll look into that for sure!
    ...
    McCready... the songs of UFO... for charity How can we pass that up, right?
    ...
    I love UFO! My sister and I used to listen to the live album in her bedroom...on vinyl yet :mrgreen:

    I hope to make this work.
    ...
    Ask them if you can get seats up in the Troubadour's balcony (usually V.I.P.) because of your bad back. I'll be down on the floor with the knuckleheads.
    ...
    P.S. I'm pretty sure it was the 1973 UFO gig at the Swing Auditorium in San Bernardino that blew out my left channel (i.e. eardrum). It was fricken' LOUD!
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    edited March 2012
    hedonist wrote:
    How do you know the motives though? After the fact? Do you trust in how much you know of the person to begin with, to then assess purity or not?

    Judgement. This is where the judgement thread and this one get blurred! As having to 'judge'/guess motives in most occasions, these are just perceptions. Perceptions based on what your character is and how you see yourself.

    But then, whatever the motives may be, if they are a true reflection of this person, he/she is showing his/her 'true colours'. No one said these true colours had to be all rosy and fluffy - can be dark ones as well.

    As cosmo put it: That all comes from how we recieve input from others... which is determined on how we judge ourselves. If we are unable to place the focus on our own flaws, then everything we recieve will be tainted in that light.


    hedonist wrote:

    I guess I'm fortunate in that the people I hold close (myself included!), HAVE looked at themselves realistically...at least for the most part. Blinders are a natural way of dealing with shit, our own shit, and removing them takes guts.

    Well, not just removing them, but then seeing exactly what we were choosing to not see.
    Agree - not an easy thing!
    Post edited by redrock on
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    hedonist wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    true if the one offering the hurtful truth has pure motives,
    if their motives are based in honest kindness and understanding
    this is a sign of good character, offering criticism in a positive way

    but when ones motives are vindictive, cruel, disrespectful, insulting this then
    also shows true colors
    as far as people seeing themselves and any harsh truth
    I have not witnessed that much in my life
    seems a lot of finger pointing takes place and 'buts'
    How do you know the motives though? After the fact? Do you trust in how much you know of the person to begin with, to then assess purity or not?

    (these are not accusations, btw, just questions and wondering)

    Finger-pointing, I'm not a big fan of that...unless pointed toward oneself. I think we have to do that from time to time. Keeps us honest with ourselves.

    I guess I'm fortunate in that the people I hold close (myself included!), HAVE looked at themselves realistically...at least for the most part. Blinders are a natural way of dealing with shit, our own shit, and removing them takes guts.

    Well, not just removing them, but then seeing exactly what we were choosing to not see.
    It matters not if I know someone's motives or you ... they do... that is character
    of course though one's motives are evident to others with certain behavior.

    People may believe they took blinders off and will actually flaunt the fact when in reality
    they have not at all. They can have extreme life changing events,
    character building experiences and still not see nor understand how they treat others.

    For me we are here for others, as I've said,
    this the most important factor in our lives in my opinion.

    Our own shit, we own of course, that is not what I am speaking of...
    I am speaking of how one treats others this where character lies ...
    and I mean lies as in evident dishonesty.

    We will all see ourselves very clearly as we pass...
    when we see what we have done to and for others
    feel everything each person we have come into contact with...

    well, we will know our true colors then.

    'Judge a life on not how much we love but how much we are loved by others'

    and no that's not a personality contest how shallow and negative a thought ...

    it is our actions our character that brings love to us.
    It is the people we touch daily ... the love we receive is the love that is saved...
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    pandora wrote:
    People may believe they took blinders off and will actually flaunt the fact when in reality
    they have not at all. They can have extreme life changing events,
    character building experiences and still not see nor understand how they treat others.
    True - some may fool themselves, but many others DO see. I'm trying to go the glass half-full route.
    pandora wrote:
    'Judge a life on not how much we love but how much we are loved by others'
    To tell you the truth, as much as being loved is precious to me, it's more about the love I give. Perhaps the selfish side of me?
    pandora wrote:
    and no that's not a personality contest how shallow and negative a thought ...

    Not sure where that came from?
    pandora wrote:
    ... the love we receive is the love that is saved...
    Given to Fly, beauty. Like the wave Mike spoke about in Single Video Theory. St. Louis (2000? with Kym) is a particular favorite.

    I would say the love we give is much sweeter ;)
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    hedonist wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    People may believe they took blinders off and will actually flaunt the fact when in reality
    they have not at all. They can have extreme life changing events,
    character building experiences and still not see nor understand how they treat others.
    True - some may fool themselves, but many others DO see. I'm trying to go the glass half-full route.
    pandora wrote:
    'Judge a life on not how much we love but how much we are loved by others'
    To tell you the truth, as much as being loved is precious to me, it's more about the love I give. Perhaps the selfish side of me?
    pandora wrote:
    and no that's not a personality contest how shallow and negative a thought ...

    Not sure where that came from?
    pandora wrote:
    ... the love we receive is the love that is saved...
    Given to Fly, beauty. Like the wave Mike spoke about in Single Video Theory. St. Louis (2000? with Kym) is a particular favorite.

    I would say the love we give is much sweeter ;)
    It is the love you give though through your actions ... your character
    that is the beautiful circle of love
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    hedonist wrote:
    How do you know the motives though? After the fact? Do you trust in how much you know of the person to begin with, to then assess purity or not?
    (these are not accusations, btw, just questions and wondering)

    Finger-pointing, I'm not a big fan of that...unless pointed toward oneself. I think we have to do that from time to time. Keeps us honest with ourselves.

    I guess I'm fortunate in that the people I hold close (myself included!), HAVE looked at themselves realistically...at least for the most part. Blinders are a natural way of dealing with shit, our own shit, and removing them takes guts.

    Well, not just removing them, but then seeing exactly what we were choosing to not see.
    ...
    This is all true.
    We DON'T know what people's motives are. It becomes easier with the full on knowledge of the person you are dealing with... such as a sibling, a spouse or long time co-worker. But, to claim to possess the ability to cast judgement based purely on what a person says is pure bullshit.
    Also, until we can look inward and make objective judegments of our own actions, our decisions, our emotions and our words, we cannot make fair assessments of others. If all we see is our own point of view, we will never accept the viewpoints of others. It also makes it easier to point out the flaws in others, if you see no flaws in yourself.
    Regarding blinders... they are not necessarily a bad thing. They can be used to edit out those interactions that have a negative affect on our lives. Who has the time to deal with someone who is nothing but a bullshitting asshole? I don't... so, I don't see them. I know they are there, i choose to edit them from my life. I suppose it's more of a bullshit filter, than a set of blinders, but either way... it's my choice to ignore them.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    It is can be easy to recognize character flaws in how a person values another human being.
    This we clearly see.

    When they are vengeful and spiteful... cruel
    these actions display obvious character traits and it matters not what the motive is ...

    this where one's true colors are displayed and their character flaws emerge
    it's not how they view themselves but how they treat others
    and even choose to not treat them at all... displaying a closed heart and
    self centered mind.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    To me, one's character really shows through in the worst of times. I've had my share of family and friends either leave me high and dry or truly be there for me when I needed them most, which has been the last two years dealing with multiple injuries, disability and hospitalizations. Nothing comes clearer than when you truly need people and how they react to that need.
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Yes and yes - applies to our own character as well as others.

    It's one thing to see ourselves clearly - what we don't like, we can try to fix (or just say fuck it, it's who I am) - but to see others with that same clarity...well, it is / can be disappointing***.

    But then comes the crossroad, and we either accept them as such, or as Cosmo has mentioned, edit them out of your life.

    I hope you're on your way to some good mending.

    ***or surprising and uplifting...the ones who ARE there, and for whom you'd do the same.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    hedonist wrote:
    Yes and yes - applies to our own character as well as others.

    It's one thing to see ourselves clearly - what we don't like, we can try to fix (or just say fuck it, it's who I am) - but to see others with that same clarity...well, it is / can be disappointing***.

    But then comes the crossroad, and we either accept them as such, or as Cosmo has mentioned, edit them out of your life.

    I hope you're on your way to some good mending.

    ***or surprising and uplifting...the ones who ARE there, and for whom you'd do the same.

    Yeah, it's all been quite interesting, as well as a psychology lesson, who has been disappointing and who has blown me away with how good a person they really are. And I have had to let some relationships go; friendships that are tested like that and survive are usually the ones worth the effort, but there were many that weren't and I made some decisions.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Jeanwah wrote:
    To me, one's character really shows through in the worst of times. I've had my share of family and friends either leave me high and dry or truly be there for me when I needed them most, which has been the last two years dealing with multiple injuries, disability and hospitalizations. Nothing comes clearer than when you truly need people and how they react to that need.
    ...
    That is true. Anyone can go on an on about what a great person they are and what they would do if presented with a difficult situation... but, the truth of the matter is... we don't know. You won't know who will be there at your side... until they show up.
    ...
    One thing I have learned... if a person goes on and on about how great of a fucking human being they are... chances are, they probably aren't that fucking great. Their true worth comes from the people they come in contact with. Judge me not on what I tell you... judge me on what others tell you about me.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    Cosmo wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    To me, one's character really shows through in the worst of times. I've had my share of family and friends either leave me high and dry or truly be there for me when I needed them most, which has been the last two years dealing with multiple injuries, disability and hospitalizations. Nothing comes clearer than when you truly need people and how they react to that need.
    ...
    That is true. Anyone can go on an on about what a great person they are and what they would do if presented with a difficult situation... but, the truth of the matter is... we don't know. You won't know who will be there at your side... until they show up.
    ...
    One thing I have learned... if a person goes on and on about how great of a fucking human being they are... chances are, they probably aren't that fucking great. Their true worth comes from the people they come in contact with. Judge me not on what I tell you... judge me on what others tell you about me.

    I totally agree with that line I tend to agree with others may say about someone they know rather than what that said person says about themselves.

    That said I HOPE others may say good things about me and if they don't ....aahh I just let it role off the back. :D

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    I really don't know many people who talk about themselves :?
    most people show others who they are through their actions
    and words about their beliefs or life experiences etc.

    I don't listen to gossip either...
    I abhor gossip and those who talk behind others backs.
    That is one of the worst character flaws in my opinion and shows true colors.
    I also abhor groups of people who thrive on this and they certainly group together
    I have noticed.
    The need to put others down seems a guiding force.

    I guess in a way it is a bit like the circle of love ...
    judge a life not on how much we love but how much we are loved by others
    a similar concept but more of the big picture of life... a person's path ...
    not the person them self which is always best to avoid...
    judging.

    I learned this going back to all the high school reunions early on in my adult life
    a good example of how people are rarely who or what we think they are

    judging hinders loving.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    I wanted to add about taking care of others during time of injury etc and how
    this is a character builder for both parties.

    During my time of all that when JB stepped up and took care of me ...
    I always knew he had a strong character, generous, kind, loving, thoughtful
    this he showed throughout our decades together but it was never tested
    and neither was I.
    Letting oneself be humbled, be helped, is also a great character builder
    as is forgiving those who disappoint us and perhaps don't have the same capacity
    for love, tenderness, understanding and care as we wish they had. I found
    strength in others and even those who had less to offer.

    Just the year before my injury I cared for my daughter after her debilitating forklift accident
    and then when it was my turn to be the injured in need the insight into her side of all that ...
    I lived.

    Life's path works in mysterious ways indeed, weaves us together, builds us off one another,
    and in the bleakest times gives us each other :D
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    pandora wrote:
    Letting oneself be humbled, be helped, is also a great character builder
    as is forgiving those who disappoint us and perhaps don't have the same capacity
    for love, tenderness, understanding and care as we wish they had. I found
    strength in others and even those who had less to offer.
    So true - the humbling part, needing help - the most basic of help (which almost makes it worse) - and then asking for it, accepting it. I've learned about this recently in several aspects. Well, I'm still learning.

    As for forgiveness, I try. But there are some who are (and who have done things) unforgivable. It doesn't mean I'm lugging around a burden of anger, just that I know what they did was shitty and they're not getting a free pass from me. Thankfully, those types are few in my life.

    Lastly, I don't think judging necessarily hinders loving. It CAN, for sure, but it can also encourage it. Depends on the kind of judgments, I suppose.
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    g under p wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    One thing I have learned... if a person goes on and on about how great of a fucking human being they are... chances are, they probably aren't that fucking great. Their true worth comes from the people they come in contact with. Judge me not on what I tell you... judge me on what others tell you about me.

    I totally agree with that line I tend to agree with others may say about someone they know rather than what that said person says about themselves.

    That said I HOPE others may say good things about me and if they don't ....aahh I just let it role off the back. :D

    Peace
    Amen to both of these thoughts!

    I always knew my father was a good man (despite him being my dad). After he died, I was so touched by the stories people relayed to me of kindnesses he extended, how honorably he lived his life and treated others...how he was ethical almost to a fault.

    Quite a legacy...I hope to live my life in the same way, and to be thought of by those I respect in the same way.

    That's really all we leave behind, I think.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    hedonist wrote:
    So true - the humbling part, needing help - the most basic of help (which almost makes it worse) - and then asking for it, accepting it. I've learned about this recently in several aspects. Well, I'm still learning.

    As for forgiveness, I try. But there are some who are (and who have done things) unforgivable. It doesn't mean I'm lugging around a burden of anger, just that I know what they did was shitty and they're not getting a free pass from me. Thankfully, those types are few in my life.

    Lastly, I don't think judging necessarily hinders loving. It CAN, for sure, but it can also encourage it. Depends on the kind of judgments, I suppose.
    ...
    True. There are some things that are unforgivable. The thing, i suppose, is to let it go so it does not become a burden and a defining factor in your life. You life should not be directed by other perople's shittiness. Live and, most importantly, learn from that lesson so it does not reappear in the future. Edit people out of you life... and move forward.
    And true dat on judgement. Anyone who says they don't judge people is typically called a 'liar'. We all make judgements on other people, whether we intend to or not. And like you said, not all judging is necessarily bad.
    ...
    Side Note: Do you guys ever eat at 'Swingers' on Beverly? That has become a semi-regular stop for me on those Largo nights. Maybe we can all swing on over some day or night. We got some years between us that needs to get filled in.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Cosmo wrote:
    The thing, i suppose, is to let it go so it does not become a burden and a defining factor in your life. You life should not be directed by other perople's shittiness. Live and, most importantly, learn from that lesson so it does not reappear in the future. Edit people out of you life... and move forward.
    And true dat on judgement. Anyone who says they don't judge people is typically called a 'liar'. We all make judgements on other people, whether we intend to or not. And like you said, not all judging is necessarily bad.
    ...
    Side Note: Do you guys ever eat at 'Swingers' on Beverly? That has become a semi-regular stop for me on those Largo nights. Maybe we can all swing on over some day or night. We got some years between us that needs to get filled in.
    Uh huh! I mean, I still think about some of it, the worst of *my it* - I accept that it's part of who I am, who I've become - but I stopped allowing it to weigh on me years ago. Those experiences no longer have power over my life.

    And, speaking of years (and filling them in), we haven't been there before but I'm game for some catch-up time with you.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...And true dat on judgement. Anyone who says they don't judge people is typically called a 'liar'. We all make judgements on other people, whether we intend to or not. And like you said, not all judging is necessarily bad....

    oh i judge people.. its what makes me able to dump the deceivers from my life. being able to make judgements about people is what makes my life more bearable and free from poison.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say

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