...
The thing is, we can be truthful... but ARE we truthful? Or do we justify our flaws and convince ourselves that we are of good character?
Do we have to be 'of good character'? Can't we just be 'of character'? I know there is pressure on the individual from all sides to be near 'saintly' (live a good life, be good and kind and love everyone, take care of our planet, recycle, etc.) but I have long accepted that I am flawed (or rather not perfect) and thus can be a bit more truthful in the way I am - no need to pretend. Though, as I said, not perfect and there are times of doubt, of course.
I get your point. It's a difficult one that. Just trying to think about my individual traits/attributes and how this forms my character and furthermore how this projects as my 'true colours'. Hmmmmm... food for thought.
But maybe looking at your example of Hitler - whilst he was able to convince some people (a lot of people) he was of good character, one could also see his 'true colours' (ie what lies beneath this). A facade which could not be held up forever. Again, perception, isn't it? It's not only how you project, it's also how people wish to 'receive'.
...
I suppose it all comes down to intent... maybe? Hitler's intent was the unification of a broken Germany... to put people to work and build a German prosperity. Unification, employment and prosperity are all great results... right? But, the means... blaming all of Germany's woes on the Jew, Slavs and others... in order rise himself (by portraying the Arayan race as superior to others) to accomplish those results were only good if you were not Jewish or Slavic. The whole thing about knocking down... pointing out the flaws in others to make yourself look better... to me, that is a negative character trait, no matter how it gets justified.
Does it outweigh other character traits? I guess it all depends...
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
The thing is, we can be truthful... but ARE we truthful? Or do we justify our flaws and convince ourselves that we are of good character?
Do we have to be 'of good character'? Can't we just be 'of character'? I know there is pressure on the individual from all sides to be near 'saintly' (live a good life, be good and kind and love everyone, take care of our planet, recycle, etc.) but I have long accepted that I am flawed (or rather not perfect) and thus can be a bit more truthful in the way I am - no need to pretend. Though, as I said, not perfect and there are times of doubt, of course.
...
My friend... we are ALL flawed. None of us are perfect... none of us knows the truth. We just do what we can. This means we all see things in different lights. I guess we all define 'good' differently. like, iran going nuclear looks like a bad thing to many... but, if you are Iranian... living in a remote area... having your kids do their homework by kerosene lanterns... nuclear powered electricty looks like a good thing, right?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...The whole thing about knocking down... pointing out the flaws in others to make yourself look better... to me, that is a negative character trait, no matter how it gets justified.
Does it outweigh other character traits? I guess it all depends...
To me, I don't think projecting one's self as 'superior' and above all is a justifiable character trait, but it is one's character. However one achieves this - openly or slyly. But when this trait comes to light, it is this person's 'true colour', no? One then deals with it the way they seem fit. Projection and perception. Some may perceive this projection as 'justifiable' others may see it in a very different way and call out/dismiss it, etc.
I don't think projecting one's self as 'superior' and above all is a justifiable character trait. However one achieves this - openly or slyly. But when this trait comes to light, it is this person's 'true colour', no? One then deals with it the way they seem fit.
...
Agreed. The thing is, anyone can justify anything... and believe it. It all depends on how the rest of us deal with it.
And yes... that is an indicator of a person's true color. It does not mean they are evil or bad... it just means their word holds less meaning, weight and substance... to me.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
You two are giving me much food for thought!
I think TRYING to be a good person - and it's a lifelong learning process, I believe - is more than half the battle.
Like you said, redrock, just being "of character". Saintliness and perfection are irritating anyway
Cosmo, I work very very close to the Troubador; I'll look into that for sure!
True colors is also about one's motives and claims ... what drives their actions and reactions
and how honest they are with themselves and others about just that.
Valid point on motives - and ties into Cosmo's point about the truth sometimes hurting...especially being truthful with oneself. It can be jarring to look at ourselves harshly and with no pretenses, but in the end it helps, even if only from a self-awareness standpoint.
true if the one offering the hurtful truth has pure motives,
if their motives are based in honest kindness and understanding
this is a sign of good character, offering criticism in a positive way
but when ones motives are vindictive, cruel, disrespectful, insulting this then
also shows true colors
as far as people seeing themselves and any harsh truth
I have not witnessed that much in my life
seems a lot of finger pointing takes place and 'buts'
You two are giving me much food for thought!
I think TRYING to be a good person - and it's a lifelong learning process, I believe - is more than half the battle.
Like you said, redrock, just being "of character". Saintliness and perfection are irritating anyway
Cosmo, I work very very close to the Troubador; I'll look into that for sure!
...
I know... sometimes I just look too deeply at things, trying to find the meaning. But, that's just what I do.
We all try to do what's good... but, it all depends. And it is difficult to guage... goodness. Good for who? Ourselves? Our Families? Our friends? Everyone?
I think character traits need to be coupled with intent is what matters. Like, taking care of your children and providing them with the best you can do may sound noble... unless you lie, steal and cheat in order to provide for them. And if they are good at lying, stealing and cheating... no one knows they are lying or stealing or cheating.
But, it is difficult, if not impossible, to detect intent. That all comes from how we recieve input from others... which is determined on how we judge ourselves. If we are unable to place the focus on our own flaws, then everything we recieve will be tainted in that light.
It ain't easy.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
true if the one offering the hurtful truth has pure motives,
if their motives are based in honest kindness and understanding
this is a sign of good character, offering criticism in a positive way
but when ones motives are vindictive, cruel, disrespectful, insulting this then
also shows true colors
as far as people seeing themselves and any harsh truth
I have not witnessed that much in my life
seems a lot of finger pointing takes place and 'buts'
How do you know the motives though? After the fact? Do you trust in how much you know of the person to begin with, to then assess purity or not?
(these are not accusations, btw, just questions and wondering)
Finger-pointing, I'm not a big fan of that...unless pointed toward oneself. I think we have to do that from time to time. Keeps us honest with ourselves.
I guess I'm fortunate in that the people I hold close (myself included!), HAVE looked at themselves realistically...at least for the most part. Blinders are a natural way of dealing with shit, our own shit, and removing them takes guts.
Well, not just removing them, but then seeing exactly what we were choosing to not see.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Cosmo, I work very very close to the Troubador; I'll look into that for sure!
...
McCready... the songs of UFO... for charity How can we pass that up, right?
...
I love UFO! My sister and I used to listen to the live album in her bedroom...on vinyl yet
I hope to make this work.
...
Ask them if you can get seats up in the Troubadour's balcony (usually V.I.P.) because of your bad back. I'll be down on the floor with the knuckleheads.
...
P.S. I'm pretty sure it was the 1973 UFO gig at the Swing Auditorium in San Bernardino that blew out my left channel (i.e. eardrum). It was fricken' LOUD!
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
How do you know the motives though? After the fact? Do you trust in how much you know of the person to begin with, to then assess purity or not?
Judgement. This is where the judgement thread and this one get blurred! As having to 'judge'/guess motives in most occasions, these are just perceptions. Perceptions based on what your character is and how you see yourself.
But then, whatever the motives may be, if they are a true reflection of this person, he/she is showing his/her 'true colours'. No one said these true colours had to be all rosy and fluffy - can be dark ones as well.
As cosmo put it: That all comes from how we recieve input from others... which is determined on how we judge ourselves. If we are unable to place the focus on our own flaws, then everything we recieve will be tainted in that light.
I guess I'm fortunate in that the people I hold close (myself included!), HAVE looked at themselves realistically...at least for the most part. Blinders are a natural way of dealing with shit, our own shit, and removing them takes guts.
Well, not just removing them, but then seeing exactly what we were choosing to not see.
true if the one offering the hurtful truth has pure motives,
if their motives are based in honest kindness and understanding
this is a sign of good character, offering criticism in a positive way
but when ones motives are vindictive, cruel, disrespectful, insulting this then
also shows true colors
as far as people seeing themselves and any harsh truth
I have not witnessed that much in my life
seems a lot of finger pointing takes place and 'buts'
How do you know the motives though? After the fact? Do you trust in how much you know of the person to begin with, to then assess purity or not?
(these are not accusations, btw, just questions and wondering)
Finger-pointing, I'm not a big fan of that...unless pointed toward oneself. I think we have to do that from time to time. Keeps us honest with ourselves.
I guess I'm fortunate in that the people I hold close (myself included!), HAVE looked at themselves realistically...at least for the most part. Blinders are a natural way of dealing with shit, our own shit, and removing them takes guts.
Well, not just removing them, but then seeing exactly what we were choosing to not see.
It matters not if I know someone's motives or you ... they do... that is character
of course though one's motives are evident to others with certain behavior.
People may believe they took blinders off and will actually flaunt the fact when in reality
they have not at all. They can have extreme life changing events,
character building experiences and still not see nor understand how they treat others.
For me we are here for others, as I've said,
this the most important factor in our lives in my opinion.
Our own shit, we own of course, that is not what I am speaking of...
I am speaking of how one treats others this where character lies ...
and I mean lies as in evident dishonesty.
We will all see ourselves very clearly as we pass...
when we see what we have done to and for others feel everything each person we have come into contact with...
well, we will know our true colors then.
'Judge a life on not how much we love but how much we are loved by others'
and no that's not a personality contest how shallow and negative a thought ...
it is our actions our character that brings love to us.
It is the people we touch daily ... the love we receive is the love that is saved...
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
People may believe they took blinders off and will actually flaunt the fact when in reality
they have not at all. They can have extreme life changing events,
character building experiences and still not see nor understand how they treat others.
True - some may fool themselves, but many others DO see. I'm trying to go the glass half-full route.
People may believe they took blinders off and will actually flaunt the fact when in reality
they have not at all. They can have extreme life changing events,
character building experiences and still not see nor understand how they treat others.
True - some may fool themselves, but many others DO see. I'm trying to go the glass half-full route.
How do you know the motives though? After the fact? Do you trust in how much you know of the person to begin with, to then assess purity or not?
(these are not accusations, btw, just questions and wondering)
Finger-pointing, I'm not a big fan of that...unless pointed toward oneself. I think we have to do that from time to time. Keeps us honest with ourselves.
I guess I'm fortunate in that the people I hold close (myself included!), HAVE looked at themselves realistically...at least for the most part. Blinders are a natural way of dealing with shit, our own shit, and removing them takes guts.
Well, not just removing them, but then seeing exactly what we were choosing to not see.
...
This is all true.
We DON'T know what people's motives are. It becomes easier with the full on knowledge of the person you are dealing with... such as a sibling, a spouse or long time co-worker. But, to claim to possess the ability to cast judgement based purely on what a person says is pure bullshit.
Also, until we can look inward and make objective judegments of our own actions, our decisions, our emotions and our words, we cannot make fair assessments of others. If all we see is our own point of view, we will never accept the viewpoints of others. It also makes it easier to point out the flaws in others, if you see no flaws in yourself.
Regarding blinders... they are not necessarily a bad thing. They can be used to edit out those interactions that have a negative affect on our lives. Who has the time to deal with someone who is nothing but a bullshitting asshole? I don't... so, I don't see them. I know they are there, i choose to edit them from my life. I suppose it's more of a bullshit filter, than a set of blinders, but either way... it's my choice to ignore them.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
It is can be easy to recognize character flaws in how a person values another human being.
This we clearly see.
When they are vengeful and spiteful... cruel
these actions display obvious character traits and it matters not what the motive is ...
this where one's true colors are displayed and their character flaws emerge
it's not how they view themselves but how they treat others
and even choose to not treat them at all... displaying a closed heart and
self centered mind.
To me, one's character really shows through in the worst of times. I've had my share of family and friends either leave me high and dry or truly be there for me when I needed them most, which has been the last two years dealing with multiple injuries, disability and hospitalizations. Nothing comes clearer than when you truly need people and how they react to that need.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Yes and yes - applies to our own character as well as others.
It's one thing to see ourselves clearly - what we don't like, we can try to fix (or just say fuck it, it's who I am) - but to see others with that same clarity...well, it is / can be disappointing***.
But then comes the crossroad, and we either accept them as such, or as Cosmo has mentioned, edit them out of your life.
I hope you're on your way to some good mending.
***or surprising and uplifting...the ones who ARE there, and for whom you'd do the same.
Yes and yes - applies to our own character as well as others.
It's one thing to see ourselves clearly - what we don't like, we can try to fix (or just say fuck it, it's who I am) - but to see others with that same clarity...well, it is / can be disappointing***.
But then comes the crossroad, and we either accept them as such, or as Cosmo has mentioned, edit them out of your life.
I hope you're on your way to some good mending.
***or surprising and uplifting...the ones who ARE there, and for whom you'd do the same.
Yeah, it's all been quite interesting, as well as a psychology lesson, who has been disappointing and who has blown me away with how good a person they really are. And I have had to let some relationships go; friendships that are tested like that and survive are usually the ones worth the effort, but there were many that weren't and I made some decisions.
To me, one's character really shows through in the worst of times. I've had my share of family and friends either leave me high and dry or truly be there for me when I needed them most, which has been the last two years dealing with multiple injuries, disability and hospitalizations. Nothing comes clearer than when you truly need people and how they react to that need.
...
That is true. Anyone can go on an on about what a great person they are and what they would do if presented with a difficult situation... but, the truth of the matter is... we don't know. You won't know who will be there at your side... until they show up.
...
One thing I have learned... if a person goes on and on about how great of a fucking human being they are... chances are, they probably aren't that fucking great. Their true worth comes from the people they come in contact with. Judge me not on what I tell you... judge me on what others tell you about me.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,122
To me, one's character really shows through in the worst of times. I've had my share of family and friends either leave me high and dry or truly be there for me when I needed them most, which has been the last two years dealing with multiple injuries, disability and hospitalizations. Nothing comes clearer than when you truly need people and how they react to that need.
...
That is true. Anyone can go on an on about what a great person they are and what they would do if presented with a difficult situation... but, the truth of the matter is... we don't know. You won't know who will be there at your side... until they show up.
...
One thing I have learned... if a person goes on and on about how great of a fucking human being they are... chances are, they probably aren't that fucking great. Their true worth comes from the people they come in contact with. Judge me not on what I tell you... judge me on what others tell you about me.
I totally agree with that line I tend to agree with others may say about someone they know rather than what that said person says about themselves.
That said I HOPE others may say good things about me and if they don't ....aahh I just let it role off the back.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I really don't know many people who talk about themselves :?
most people show others who they are through their actions
and words about their beliefs or life experiences etc.
I don't listen to gossip either...
I abhor gossip and those who talk behind others backs.
That is one of the worst character flaws in my opinion and shows true colors.
I also abhor groups of people who thrive on this and they certainly group together
I have noticed.
The need to put others down seems a guiding force.
I guess in a way it is a bit like the circle of love ... judge a life not on how much we love but how much we are loved by others
a similar concept but more of the big picture of life... a person's path ...
not the person them self which is always best to avoid...
judging.
I learned this going back to all the high school reunions early on in my adult life
a good example of how people are rarely who or what we think they are
I wanted to add about taking care of others during time of injury etc and how
this is a character builder for both parties.
During my time of all that when JB stepped up and took care of me ...
I always knew he had a strong character, generous, kind, loving, thoughtful
this he showed throughout our decades together but it was never tested
and neither was I.
Letting oneself be humbled, be helped, is also a great character builder
as is forgiving those who disappoint us and perhaps don't have the same capacity
for love, tenderness, understanding and care as we wish they had. I found
strength in others and even those who had less to offer.
Just the year before my injury I cared for my daughter after her debilitating forklift accident
and then when it was my turn to be the injured in need the insight into her side of all that ...
I lived.
Life's path works in mysterious ways indeed, weaves us together, builds us off one another,
and in the bleakest times gives us each other
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Letting oneself be humbled, be helped, is also a great character builder
as is forgiving those who disappoint us and perhaps don't have the same capacity
for love, tenderness, understanding and care as we wish they had. I found
strength in others and even those who had less to offer.
So true - the humbling part, needing help - the most basic of help (which almost makes it worse) - and then asking for it, accepting it. I've learned about this recently in several aspects. Well, I'm still learning.
As for forgiveness, I try. But there are some who are (and who have done things) unforgivable. It doesn't mean I'm lugging around a burden of anger, just that I know what they did was shitty and they're not getting a free pass from me. Thankfully, those types are few in my life.
Lastly, I don't think judging necessarily hinders loving. It CAN, for sure, but it can also encourage it. Depends on the kind of judgments, I suppose.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
One thing I have learned... if a person goes on and on about how great of a fucking human being they are... chances are, they probably aren't that fucking great. Their true worth comes from the people they come in contact with. Judge me not on what I tell you... judge me on what others tell you about me.
I totally agree with that line I tend to agree with others may say about someone they know rather than what that said person says about themselves.
That said I HOPE others may say good things about me and if they don't ....aahh I just let it role off the back.
Peace
Amen to both of these thoughts!
I always knew my father was a good man (despite him being my dad). After he died, I was so touched by the stories people relayed to me of kindnesses he extended, how honorably he lived his life and treated others...how he was ethical almost to a fault.
Quite a legacy...I hope to live my life in the same way, and to be thought of by those I respect in the same way.
So true - the humbling part, needing help - the most basic of help (which almost makes it worse) - and then asking for it, accepting it. I've learned about this recently in several aspects. Well, I'm still learning.
As for forgiveness, I try. But there are some who are (and who have done things) unforgivable. It doesn't mean I'm lugging around a burden of anger, just that I know what they did was shitty and they're not getting a free pass from me. Thankfully, those types are few in my life.
Lastly, I don't think judging necessarily hinders loving. It CAN, for sure, but it can also encourage it. Depends on the kind of judgments, I suppose.
...
True. There are some things that are unforgivable. The thing, i suppose, is to let it go so it does not become a burden and a defining factor in your life. You life should not be directed by other perople's shittiness. Live and, most importantly, learn from that lesson so it does not reappear in the future. Edit people out of you life... and move forward.
And true dat on judgement. Anyone who says they don't judge people is typically called a 'liar'. We all make judgements on other people, whether we intend to or not. And like you said, not all judging is necessarily bad.
...
Side Note: Do you guys ever eat at 'Swingers' on Beverly? That has become a semi-regular stop for me on those Largo nights. Maybe we can all swing on over some day or night. We got some years between us that needs to get filled in.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
The thing, i suppose, is to let it go so it does not become a burden and a defining factor in your life. You life should not be directed by other perople's shittiness. Live and, most importantly, learn from that lesson so it does not reappear in the future. Edit people out of you life... and move forward.
And true dat on judgement. Anyone who says they don't judge people is typically called a 'liar'. We all make judgements on other people, whether we intend to or not. And like you said, not all judging is necessarily bad.
...
Side Note: Do you guys ever eat at 'Swingers' on Beverly? That has become a semi-regular stop for me on those Largo nights. Maybe we can all swing on over some day or night. We got some years between us that needs to get filled in.
Uh huh! I mean, I still think about some of it, the worst of *my it* - I accept that it's part of who I am, who I've become - but I stopped allowing it to weigh on me years ago. Those experiences no longer have power over my life.
And, speaking of years (and filling them in), we haven't been there before but I'm game for some catch-up time with you.
...And true dat on judgement. Anyone who says they don't judge people is typically called a 'liar'. We all make judgements on other people, whether we intend to or not. And like you said, not all judging is necessarily bad....
oh i judge people.. its what makes me able to dump the deceivers from my life. being able to make judgements about people is what makes my life more bearable and free from poison.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Comments
Do we have to be 'of good character'? Can't we just be 'of character'? I know there is pressure on the individual from all sides to be near 'saintly' (live a good life, be good and kind and love everyone, take care of our planet, recycle, etc.) but I have long accepted that I am flawed (or rather not perfect) and thus can be a bit more truthful in the way I am - no need to pretend. Though, as I said, not perfect and there are times of doubt, of course.
I suppose it all comes down to intent... maybe? Hitler's intent was the unification of a broken Germany... to put people to work and build a German prosperity. Unification, employment and prosperity are all great results... right? But, the means... blaming all of Germany's woes on the Jew, Slavs and others... in order rise himself (by portraying the Arayan race as superior to others) to accomplish those results were only good if you were not Jewish or Slavic. The whole thing about knocking down... pointing out the flaws in others to make yourself look better... to me, that is a negative character trait, no matter how it gets justified.
Does it outweigh other character traits? I guess it all depends...
Hail, Hail!!!
My friend... we are ALL flawed. None of us are perfect... none of us knows the truth. We just do what we can. This means we all see things in different lights. I guess we all define 'good' differently. like, iran going nuclear looks like a bad thing to many... but, if you are Iranian... living in a remote area... having your kids do their homework by kerosene lanterns... nuclear powered electricty looks like a good thing, right?
Hail, Hail!!!
To me, I don't think projecting one's self as 'superior' and above all is a justifiable character trait, but it is one's character. However one achieves this - openly or slyly. But when this trait comes to light, it is this person's 'true colour', no? One then deals with it the way they seem fit. Projection and perception. Some may perceive this projection as 'justifiable' others may see it in a very different way and call out/dismiss it, etc.
Agreed. The thing is, anyone can justify anything... and believe it. It all depends on how the rest of us deal with it.
And yes... that is an indicator of a person's true color. It does not mean they are evil or bad... it just means their word holds less meaning, weight and substance... to me.
Hail, Hail!!!
I think TRYING to be a good person - and it's a lifelong learning process, I believe - is more than half the battle.
Like you said, redrock, just being "of character". Saintliness and perfection are irritating anyway
Cosmo, I work very very close to the Troubador; I'll look into that for sure!
if their motives are based in honest kindness and understanding
this is a sign of good character, offering criticism in a positive way
but when ones motives are vindictive, cruel, disrespectful, insulting this then
also shows true colors
as far as people seeing themselves and any harsh truth
I have not witnessed that much in my life
seems a lot of finger pointing takes place and 'buts'
I know... sometimes I just look too deeply at things, trying to find the meaning. But, that's just what I do.
We all try to do what's good... but, it all depends. And it is difficult to guage... goodness. Good for who? Ourselves? Our Families? Our friends? Everyone?
I think character traits need to be coupled with intent is what matters. Like, taking care of your children and providing them with the best you can do may sound noble... unless you lie, steal and cheat in order to provide for them. And if they are good at lying, stealing and cheating... no one knows they are lying or stealing or cheating.
But, it is difficult, if not impossible, to detect intent. That all comes from how we recieve input from others... which is determined on how we judge ourselves. If we are unable to place the focus on our own flaws, then everything we recieve will be tainted in that light.
It ain't easy.
Hail, Hail!!!
McCready... the songs of UFO... for charity How can we pass that up, right?
...
Hail, Hail!!!
(these are not accusations, btw, just questions and wondering)
Finger-pointing, I'm not a big fan of that...unless pointed toward oneself. I think we have to do that from time to time. Keeps us honest with ourselves.
I guess I'm fortunate in that the people I hold close (myself included!), HAVE looked at themselves realistically...at least for the most part. Blinders are a natural way of dealing with shit, our own shit, and removing them takes guts.
Well, not just removing them, but then seeing exactly what we were choosing to not see.
I hope to make this work.
Ask them if you can get seats up in the Troubadour's balcony (usually V.I.P.) because of your bad back. I'll be down on the floor with the knuckleheads.
...
P.S. I'm pretty sure it was the 1973 UFO gig at the Swing Auditorium in San Bernardino that blew out my left channel (i.e. eardrum). It was fricken' LOUD!
Hail, Hail!!!
Judgement. This is where the judgement thread and this one get blurred! As having to 'judge'/guess motives in most occasions, these are just perceptions. Perceptions based on what your character is and how you see yourself.
But then, whatever the motives may be, if they are a true reflection of this person, he/she is showing his/her 'true colours'. No one said these true colours had to be all rosy and fluffy - can be dark ones as well.
As cosmo put it: That all comes from how we recieve input from others... which is determined on how we judge ourselves. If we are unable to place the focus on our own flaws, then everything we recieve will be tainted in that light.
Agree - not an easy thing!
of course though one's motives are evident to others with certain behavior.
People may believe they took blinders off and will actually flaunt the fact when in reality
they have not at all. They can have extreme life changing events,
character building experiences and still not see nor understand how they treat others.
For me we are here for others, as I've said,
this the most important factor in our lives in my opinion.
Our own shit, we own of course, that is not what I am speaking of...
I am speaking of how one treats others this where character lies ...
and I mean lies as in evident dishonesty.
We will all see ourselves very clearly as we pass...
when we see what we have done to and for others
feel everything each person we have come into contact with...
well, we will know our true colors then.
'Judge a life on not how much we love but how much we are loved by others'
and no that's not a personality contest how shallow and negative a thought ...
it is our actions our character that brings love to us.
It is the people we touch daily ... the love we receive is the love that is saved...
To tell you the truth, as much as being loved is precious to me, it's more about the love I give. Perhaps the selfish side of me?
Not sure where that came from?
Given to Fly, beauty. Like the wave Mike spoke about in Single Video Theory. St. Louis (2000? with Kym) is a particular favorite.
I would say the love we give is much sweeter
that is the beautiful circle of love
This is all true.
We DON'T know what people's motives are. It becomes easier with the full on knowledge of the person you are dealing with... such as a sibling, a spouse or long time co-worker. But, to claim to possess the ability to cast judgement based purely on what a person says is pure bullshit.
Also, until we can look inward and make objective judegments of our own actions, our decisions, our emotions and our words, we cannot make fair assessments of others. If all we see is our own point of view, we will never accept the viewpoints of others. It also makes it easier to point out the flaws in others, if you see no flaws in yourself.
Regarding blinders... they are not necessarily a bad thing. They can be used to edit out those interactions that have a negative affect on our lives. Who has the time to deal with someone who is nothing but a bullshitting asshole? I don't... so, I don't see them. I know they are there, i choose to edit them from my life. I suppose it's more of a bullshit filter, than a set of blinders, but either way... it's my choice to ignore them.
Hail, Hail!!!
This we clearly see.
When they are vengeful and spiteful... cruel
these actions display obvious character traits and it matters not what the motive is ...
this where one's true colors are displayed and their character flaws emerge
it's not how they view themselves but how they treat others
and even choose to not treat them at all... displaying a closed heart and
self centered mind.
It's one thing to see ourselves clearly - what we don't like, we can try to fix (or just say fuck it, it's who I am) - but to see others with that same clarity...well, it is / can be disappointing***.
But then comes the crossroad, and we either accept them as such, or as Cosmo has mentioned, edit them out of your life.
I hope you're on your way to some good mending.
***or surprising and uplifting...the ones who ARE there, and for whom you'd do the same.
Yeah, it's all been quite interesting, as well as a psychology lesson, who has been disappointing and who has blown me away with how good a person they really are. And I have had to let some relationships go; friendships that are tested like that and survive are usually the ones worth the effort, but there were many that weren't and I made some decisions.
That is true. Anyone can go on an on about what a great person they are and what they would do if presented with a difficult situation... but, the truth of the matter is... we don't know. You won't know who will be there at your side... until they show up.
...
One thing I have learned... if a person goes on and on about how great of a fucking human being they are... chances are, they probably aren't that fucking great. Their true worth comes from the people they come in contact with. Judge me not on what I tell you... judge me on what others tell you about me.
Hail, Hail!!!
I totally agree with that line I tend to agree with others may say about someone they know rather than what that said person says about themselves.
That said I HOPE others may say good things about me and if they don't ....aahh I just let it role off the back.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
most people show others who they are through their actions
and words about their beliefs or life experiences etc.
I don't listen to gossip either...
I abhor gossip and those who talk behind others backs.
That is one of the worst character flaws in my opinion and shows true colors.
I also abhor groups of people who thrive on this and they certainly group together
I have noticed.
The need to put others down seems a guiding force.
I guess in a way it is a bit like the circle of love ...
judge a life not on how much we love but how much we are loved by others
a similar concept but more of the big picture of life... a person's path ...
not the person them self which is always best to avoid...
judging.
I learned this going back to all the high school reunions early on in my adult life
a good example of how people are rarely who or what we think they are
judging hinders loving.
this is a character builder for both parties.
During my time of all that when JB stepped up and took care of me ...
I always knew he had a strong character, generous, kind, loving, thoughtful
this he showed throughout our decades together but it was never tested
and neither was I.
Letting oneself be humbled, be helped, is also a great character builder
as is forgiving those who disappoint us and perhaps don't have the same capacity
for love, tenderness, understanding and care as we wish they had. I found
strength in others and even those who had less to offer.
Just the year before my injury I cared for my daughter after her debilitating forklift accident
and then when it was my turn to be the injured in need the insight into her side of all that ...
I lived.
Life's path works in mysterious ways indeed, weaves us together, builds us off one another,
and in the bleakest times gives us each other
As for forgiveness, I try. But there are some who are (and who have done things) unforgivable. It doesn't mean I'm lugging around a burden of anger, just that I know what they did was shitty and they're not getting a free pass from me. Thankfully, those types are few in my life.
Lastly, I don't think judging necessarily hinders loving. It CAN, for sure, but it can also encourage it. Depends on the kind of judgments, I suppose.
I always knew my father was a good man (despite him being my dad). After he died, I was so touched by the stories people relayed to me of kindnesses he extended, how honorably he lived his life and treated others...how he was ethical almost to a fault.
Quite a legacy...I hope to live my life in the same way, and to be thought of by those I respect in the same way.
That's really all we leave behind, I think.
True. There are some things that are unforgivable. The thing, i suppose, is to let it go so it does not become a burden and a defining factor in your life. You life should not be directed by other perople's shittiness. Live and, most importantly, learn from that lesson so it does not reappear in the future. Edit people out of you life... and move forward.
And true dat on judgement. Anyone who says they don't judge people is typically called a 'liar'. We all make judgements on other people, whether we intend to or not. And like you said, not all judging is necessarily bad.
...
Side Note: Do you guys ever eat at 'Swingers' on Beverly? That has become a semi-regular stop for me on those Largo nights. Maybe we can all swing on over some day or night. We got some years between us that needs to get filled in.
Hail, Hail!!!
And, speaking of years (and filling them in), we haven't been there before but I'm game for some catch-up time with you.
oh i judge people.. its what makes me able to dump the deceivers from my life. being able to make judgements about people is what makes my life more bearable and free from poison.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say