Your character

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  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Cosmo wrote:
    A true indicator of true colors is bringing in other individuals for comparison or as an indicator of poor character traits.

    I'm reading this in so many different ways... can you/do you wish to clarify what you meant?
    Cosmo wrote:
    That said, all I can do is present the same face in public, as I do in private. But, I'll tell you... I fail at this. I am a LOT stranger when alone.

    But is this not all part of our 'true colours', ie how we are? It's not a fail. I think we're all a bit different in the various 'settings' of our life - at work, at home, with a loved one, with a foe.... Doesn't mean were are fake, dishonest etc. It's the consistency and integrity in the way we act in each setting. The 'deep down' is most probably the same, the way to express it would be different. The WYSISWYG thing... whatever the situation/environment.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    redrock wrote:
    I'm reading this in so many different ways... can you/do you wish to clarify what you meant?
    ...
    "A true indicator of true colors is bringing in other individuals for comparison or as an indicator of poor character traits."
    Meaning, If I have to revert to knocking other people in order to reveal what a great person I am... in comparison to them.... it only reveals to the world, what a fucking petty little asshole I am, right? I think it is better for me to just say what I believe to be the truth and let others decide on how they percieve me. If what I say pisses them off... sorry. I have found that the truth isn't always pretty and nice and I would do you a great disservice by lying to you by saying I agree with you... if I don't, right?
    ...
    redrock wrote:
    But is this not all part of our 'true colours', ie how we are? It's not a fail. I think we're all a bit different in the various 'settings' of our life - at work, at home, with a loved one, with a foe.... Doesn't mean were are fake, dishonest etc. It's the consistency and integrity in the way we act in each setting. The 'deep down' is most probably the same, the way to express it would be different. The WYSISWYG thing... whatever the situation/environment.?
    ...
    That is true, we DO display certain aspects of our personality in different situations, to different people, but our character SHOULD always present itself in each. If I'm a liar and a cheat, then I am a liar and a cheat at home, at work, to my friends, my enemies, my co-worker and my spouse, right?
    The truth of the matter... you don't really know if I am a liar and a cheat or an honest and truthful human being, do you? No one knows who we are except ourselves.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Cosmo wrote:
    Meaning, If I have to revert to knocking other people in order to reveal what a great person I am... in comparison to them.... it only reveals to the world, what a fucking petty little asshole I am, right? I think it is better for me to just say what I belive to be the truth and let others decide on how they percieve me. If what I say pisses them off... sorry. I have found that the truth isn't always pretty and nice and I would do you a great disservice by lying to you by saying I agree with you... if I don't, right?

    That's how I initially understood it. And yes, truth sometimes hurts but is necessary.
    ...
    cosmo wrote:
    ...
    That is true, we DO display certain aspects of our personality in different situations, to different people, but our character SHOULD always present itself in each. If I'm a liar and a cheat, then I am a liar and a cheat at home, at work, to my friends, my enemies, my co-worker and my spouse, right?
    The truth of the matter... you don't really know if I am a liar and a cheat or an honest and truthful human being, do you? No one knows who we are except ourselves.

    That's why I was saying the 'deep down' is fundamentally the same - whatever the situation. I think I know who I am, though I sometimes surprise myself! :mrgreen: All I can say is that if I look at/into myself, I am happy I am living 'truthfully'. Doesn't mean I'm up to some people's standards or I'm a good/bad person, whatever - I just know that I can be satisfied with my integrity, even if this kind of integrity is not to everyone's liking.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    True colors is also about one's motives and claims ... what drives their actions and reactions
    and how honest they are with themselves and others about just that.

    Integrity is honesty and truthfulness of one's actions and their value system dictates this.
    If one believes opposing beliefs do not deserve respect and their actions/words display
    this, their value system is evident and their motives appear as their true colors.
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    redrock wrote:
    That's why I was saying the 'deep down' is fundamentally the same - whatever the situation. I think I know who I am, though I sometimes surprise myself! :mrgreen: All I can say is that if I look at/into myself, I am happy I am living 'truthfully'. Doesn't mean I'm up to some people's standards or I'm a good/bad person, whatever - I just know that I can be satisfied with my integrity, even if this kind of integrity is not to everyone's liking.
    Right on! Well-said.

    And Cosmo, I'd be willing to bet I'm correct in my assessment of your character ;)
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    pandora wrote:
    True colors is also about one's motives and claims ... what drives their actions and reactions
    and how honest they are with themselves and others about just that.
    Valid point on motives - and ties into Cosmo's point about the truth sometimes hurting...especially being truthful with oneself. It can be jarring to look at ourselves harshly and with no pretenses, but in the end it helps, even if only from a self-awareness standpoint.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    hedonist wrote:
    It can be jarring to look at ourselves harshly and with no pretenses,
    A bit like looking at myself in the mirror first thing in the morning, straight out of bed, no make up (or panda eyes) on this old face of mine! But then it's 'what the hell - that's what I look like!' Acceptance of one's self (though I still wouldn't go to the corner shops without putting my face on...) ;)
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    redrock wrote:
    cosmo wrote:
    That is true, we DO display certain aspects of our personality in different situations, to different people, but our character SHOULD always present itself in each. If I'm a liar and a cheat, then I am a liar and a cheat at home, at work, to my friends, my enemies, my co-worker and my spouse, right?
    The truth of the matter... you don't really know if I am a liar and a cheat or an honest and truthful human being, do you? No one knows who we are except ourselves.

    That's why I was saying the 'deep down' is fundamentally the same - whatever the situation. I think I know who I am, though I sometimes surprise myself! :mrgreen: All I can say is that if I look at/into myself, I am happy I am living 'truthfully'. Doesn't mean I'm up to some people's standards or I'm a good/bad person, whatever - I just know that I can be satisfied with my integrity, even if this kind of integrity is not to everyone's liking.
    ...
    The thing is... character alone doesn't really prove anything. Like a person who sticks to his convictions, tells the world what he honestly believes to be true and sincerely believes what he is doing will lead to a greater good... does not tell the whole story.
    Case in point, Adolph Hitler had those very same character traits. To him (Hitler), he would be able to convince a lot of people, which he did, that he was a person of good character.
    What he DID with those character traits is what matters.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    The thing is... character alone doesn't really prove anything. Like a person who sticks to his convictions, tells the world what he honestly believes to be true and sincerely believes what he is doing will lead to a greater good... does not tell the whole story.
    Case in point, Adolph Hitler had those very same character traits. To him (Hitler), he would be able to convince a lot of people, which he did, that he was a person of good character.
    What he DID with those character traits is what matters.

    I get your point. It's a difficult one that. Just trying to think about my individual traits/attributes and how this forms my character and furthermore how this projects as my 'true colours'. Hmmmmm... food for thought.

    But maybe looking at your example of Hitler - whilst he was able to convince some people (a lot of people) he was of good character, one could also see his 'true colours' (ie what lies beneath this). A facade which could not be held up forever. Again, perception, isn't it? It's not only how you project, it's also how people wish to 'receive'.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    hedonist wrote:
    Valid point on motives - and ties into Cosmo's point about the truth sometimes hurting...especially being truthful with oneself. It can be jarring to look at ourselves harshly and with no pretenses, but in the end it helps, even if only from a self-awareness standpoint.
    ...
    The thing is, we can be truthful... but ARE we truthful? Or do we justify our flaws and convince ourselves that we are of good character? If we can face the truth with honesty and avoid making up excuses and rationalizing why we do the things we do... you'd think that would work. But, we might simple believe in our beliefs as truth, we will continue with the habits we have hardcoded into our being.
    ...
    Also...
    Are you going to catch McCready's gig at the Troubadour in May? It's a G.A. situation, so it might be hard on your back, but you can always try to score a seat up in the balcony.
    The Galaxy (Observatory) in Santa Ana has booths... and I believe it's a first come/first served arrangement.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    The thing is, we can be truthful... but ARE we truthful? Or do we justify our flaws and convince ourselves that we are of good character?

    Do we have to be 'of good character'? Can't we just be 'of character'? I know there is pressure on the individual from all sides to be near 'saintly' (live a good life, be good and kind and love everyone, take care of our planet, recycle, etc.) but I have long accepted that I am flawed (or rather not perfect) and thus can be a bit more truthful in the way I am - no need to pretend. Though, as I said, not perfect and there are times of doubt, of course.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    redrock wrote:
    I get your point. It's a difficult one that. Just trying to think about my individual traits/attributes and how this forms my character and furthermore how this projects as my 'true colours'. Hmmmmm... food for thought.

    But maybe looking at your example of Hitler - whilst he was able to convince some people (a lot of people) he was of good character, one could also see his 'true colours' (ie what lies beneath this). A facade which could not be held up forever. Again, perception, isn't it? It's not only how you project, it's also how people wish to 'receive'.
    ...
    I suppose it all comes down to intent... maybe? Hitler's intent was the unification of a broken Germany... to put people to work and build a German prosperity. Unification, employment and prosperity are all great results... right? But, the means... blaming all of Germany's woes on the Jew, Slavs and others... in order rise himself (by portraying the Arayan race as superior to others) to accomplish those results were only good if you were not Jewish or Slavic. The whole thing about knocking down... pointing out the flaws in others to make yourself look better... to me, that is a negative character trait, no matter how it gets justified.
    Does it outweigh other character traits? I guess it all depends...
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    redrock wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    The thing is, we can be truthful... but ARE we truthful? Or do we justify our flaws and convince ourselves that we are of good character?

    Do we have to be 'of good character'? Can't we just be 'of character'? I know there is pressure on the individual from all sides to be near 'saintly' (live a good life, be good and kind and love everyone, take care of our planet, recycle, etc.) but I have long accepted that I am flawed (or rather not perfect) and thus can be a bit more truthful in the way I am - no need to pretend. Though, as I said, not perfect and there are times of doubt, of course.
    ...
    My friend... we are ALL flawed. None of us are perfect... none of us knows the truth. We just do what we can. This means we all see things in different lights. I guess we all define 'good' differently. like, iran going nuclear looks like a bad thing to many... but, if you are Iranian... living in a remote area... having your kids do their homework by kerosene lanterns... nuclear powered electricty looks like a good thing, right?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    I suppose it all comes down to intent... maybe? .
    Maybe. A means to get where one wants to get.


    Cosmo wrote:
    ...The whole thing about knocking down... pointing out the flaws in others to make yourself look better... to me, that is a negative character trait, no matter how it gets justified.
    Does it outweigh other character traits? I guess it all depends...

    To me, I don't think projecting one's self as 'superior' and above all is a justifiable character trait, but it is one's character. However one achieves this - openly or slyly. But when this trait comes to light, it is this person's 'true colour', no? One then deals with it the way they seem fit. Projection and perception. Some may perceive this projection as 'justifiable' others may see it in a very different way and call out/dismiss it, etc.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    redrock wrote:
    I don't think projecting one's self as 'superior' and above all is a justifiable character trait. However one achieves this - openly or slyly. But when this trait comes to light, it is this person's 'true colour', no? One then deals with it the way they seem fit.
    ...
    Agreed. The thing is, anyone can justify anything... and believe it. It all depends on how the rest of us deal with it.
    And yes... that is an indicator of a person's true color. It does not mean they are evil or bad... it just means their word holds less meaning, weight and substance... to me.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    You two are giving me much food for thought!

    I think TRYING to be a good person - and it's a lifelong learning process, I believe - is more than half the battle.

    Like you said, redrock, just being "of character". Saintliness and perfection are irritating anyway :mrgreen:

    Cosmo, I work very very close to the Troubador; I'll look into that for sure!
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    hedonist wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    True colors is also about one's motives and claims ... what drives their actions and reactions
    and how honest they are with themselves and others about just that.
    Valid point on motives - and ties into Cosmo's point about the truth sometimes hurting...especially being truthful with oneself. It can be jarring to look at ourselves harshly and with no pretenses, but in the end it helps, even if only from a self-awareness standpoint.
    true if the one offering the hurtful truth has pure motives,
    if their motives are based in honest kindness and understanding
    this is a sign of good character, offering criticism in a positive way

    but when ones motives are vindictive, cruel, disrespectful, insulting this then
    also shows true colors
    as far as people seeing themselves and any harsh truth
    I have not witnessed that much in my life
    seems a lot of finger pointing takes place and 'buts'
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    edited March 2012
    hedonist wrote:
    You two are giving me much food for thought!
    I think TRYING to be a good person - and it's a lifelong learning process, I believe - is more than half the battle.
    Like you said, redrock, just being "of character". Saintliness and perfection are irritating anyway :mrgreen:
    Cosmo, I work very very close to the Troubador; I'll look into that for sure!
    ...
    I know... sometimes I just look too deeply at things, trying to find the meaning. But, that's just what I do.
    We all try to do what's good... but, it all depends. And it is difficult to guage... goodness. Good for who? Ourselves? Our Families? Our friends? Everyone?
    I think character traits need to be coupled with intent is what matters. Like, taking care of your children and providing them with the best you can do may sound noble... unless you lie, steal and cheat in order to provide for them. And if they are good at lying, stealing and cheating... no one knows they are lying or stealing or cheating.
    But, it is difficult, if not impossible, to detect intent. That all comes from how we recieve input from others... which is determined on how we judge ourselves. If we are unable to place the focus on our own flaws, then everything we recieve will be tainted in that light.
    It ain't easy.
    Post edited by Cosmo on
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    hedonist wrote:
    Cosmo, I work very very close to the Troubador; I'll look into that for sure!
    ...
    McCready... the songs of UFO... for charity How can we pass that up, right?
    ...
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    pandora wrote:
    true if the one offering the hurtful truth has pure motives,
    if their motives are based in honest kindness and understanding
    this is a sign of good character, offering criticism in a positive way

    but when ones motives are vindictive, cruel, disrespectful, insulting this then
    also shows true colors
    as far as people seeing themselves and any harsh truth
    I have not witnessed that much in my life
    seems a lot of finger pointing takes place and 'buts'
    How do you know the motives though? After the fact? Do you trust in how much you know of the person to begin with, to then assess purity or not?

    (these are not accusations, btw, just questions and wondering)

    Finger-pointing, I'm not a big fan of that...unless pointed toward oneself. I think we have to do that from time to time. Keeps us honest with ourselves.

    I guess I'm fortunate in that the people I hold close (myself included!), HAVE looked at themselves realistically...at least for the most part. Blinders are a natural way of dealing with shit, our own shit, and removing them takes guts.

    Well, not just removing them, but then seeing exactly what we were choosing to not see.

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